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Which is why it's standard practice to have points invested in a secondary element as backup, because you'll be playing the vast majority of the game without a really expensive runeword like Infinity anyways, even if you are in multiplayer. Also, elemental immunity is pretty rare outside of Nightmare/Hell modes.
So I see some people are giving "Not sure if serious" to my statement of Diablo 2 being fucking ugly. Yes, it is fucking ugly for a game that came out from a company as big as Blizzard, in the year 2000. I know, it's a semi-random, tileset-based game so it won't look like a game hat had everything painstakingly crafted to look like a painting, but holy shit did it look like ass compared to games that came out the same year.
And this was in the age when it was acceptable for the RPG and the RPG subgenres to not have good graphics even when published by bigger companies.
What game came out in 2000 and looked better than D2?
That was early 3D era. Early 3D was mostly ugly, while D2 has just nice pixel art (though nowadays it's pretty low-res). Imagine how catastrophically bad it would have looked if they went 3D I mean... have you seen Warcraft 3?
BG2 and IWD sure look awesome... but those are pre-rendered images throughout, including stuff like chests. You simply cannot do something like that for a game like D2.
Nox? Ehh... no.
VtM: Redemption? Are you mocking me?
Everything after that doesn't have anywhere near the same requirements when it comes to what needs to be displayed on screen at the same time (and at which speed), so that's just not a fair comparison.
And honestly, D2 still looks nice (albeit pretty low-res) and atmospheric today. You are probably the first person I've ever seen saying that D2 looks ugly.
I played all the abovementioned around the year of their release, give or take a year (hooray piracy), so these are my original impressions. D2 looked like ass to the young disappointed Ang, can't help that, man.
Which is why it's standard practice to have points invested in a secondary element as backup, because you'll be playing the vast majority of the game without a really expensive runeword like Infinity anyways, even if you are in multiplayer. Also, elemental immunity is pretty rare outside of Nightmare/Hell modes.
normal doesn't even count and nightmare barely counts, either you can beat hell (where everything except act bosses is immune to something) or you can't beat the game.
and it's NOT standard practice, there are hybrid builds (IE: orb/fireball sorc because orb has only one shitty synergy) that use both elements regularly but you need serious investment for most skills to be useful in hell. there's some 1 point wonder exceptions (in classes that don't need it as much, like paladin and barb) but even if you deal with the immunity problem, monsters in hell, especially later on, become so powerful that you need serious gear just to put a dent in them with your main skills.
IMAGINE actually thinking that Diablo 3's skill system is better than Grim Dawn's. The game where you can make viable builds based around any skill, with the proper equipment and devotion spec. Yeah, apparently Diablo 3's skill system is better than that. What the actual fuck? I seriously have no words.
Also, the retards who jerk themselves with the "Diablo is no TRUUUU RPG" bullshit seem to never miss an opportunity to showcase their autism. No one is arguing that Diablo 2 is like precious Baldur's Gate. Move along now.
Also, the retards who jerk themselves with the "Diablo is no TRUUUU RPG" bullshit seem to never miss an opportunity to showcase their autism. No one is arguing that Diablo 2 is like precious Baldur's Gate. Move along now.
I guess medicine is true wonder nowadays, because apparently even retards have enough intelligence not to call Diablo games as good RPG and autists have more decency than stupid Diablo fanbois. It's truly sad that Diablo Imbeciles beyond salvation.
Personally I cannot be counted as BG fan ( and I very critic to BG series, I must say), but even blind half-witted orc can see that...
You know what? Fuck it, it pointless to explain something to person, who got triggered from simple joke and automatically call others as retards just because they disagree with his opinion. Not to mention that trying to keep people away from thread by saying "Move along" isn't very effective.
IMAGINE actually thinking that Diablo 3's skill system is better than Grim Dawn's. The game where you can make viable builds based around any skill, with the proper equipment and devotion spec.
Which is why it's standard practice to have points invested in a secondary element as backup, because you'll be playing the vast majority of the game without a really expensive runeword like Infinity anyways, even if you are in multiplayer. Also, elemental immunity is pretty rare outside of Nightmare/Hell modes.
normal doesn't even count and nightmare barely counts, either you can beat hell (where everything except act bosses is immune to something) or you can't beat the game.
and it's NOT standard practice, there are hybrid builds (IE: orb/fireball sorc because orb has only one shitty synergy) that use both elements regularly but you need serious investment for most skills to be useful in hell. there's some 1 point wonder exceptions (in classes that don't need it as much, like paladin and barb) but even if you deal with the immunity problem, monsters in hell, especially later on, become so powerful that you need serious gear just to put a dent in them with your main skills.
Except autists, most people just play these games through on normal and then call it a day. The whole idea to play these games on higher and higher difficulties is just a subset of people who are obsessive about these games
Wait a fucking second, im all for shitting on D2 but this shit is too fucking much.
I mean, i love deus ex, but if theres was game with buttfuck ugly graphics released back then, then its this one.
Also Diablo 2 is rather pretty, i still like Diablo 1 style better, but 2 can look gorgeous in some places, even especially today.
Except autists, most people just play these games through on normal and then call it a day. The whole idea to play these games on higher and higher difficulties is just a subset of people who are obsessive about these games
arpgs are made to cater to autists and borderline autists in the first place tho. you'll miss out on fully developed builds and just about any cool gear if you only play D2 on normal.
IMAGINE actually thinking that Diablo 3's skill system is better than Grim Dawn's. The game where you can make viable builds based around any skill, with the proper equipment and devotion spec.
Not around any. Only a few, and only with SET ITEMS. Grim Dawn has the most viable amount of builds you can make by far. PoE comes second, because it's quantity over quality and power creep to the max so while you can make even more builds, most of them are garbage and do not work. Then comes Diablo 2. And then Diablo 3 (I don't know anything about Diablo 1).
Diablo 1 was the best game in the series by far, as it was balanced in single player around a single run through without respawning monsters or loot that gave you a roguelike experience, with random spellbooks dropping, random quests with their own bosses or mini dungeons, and it actually had a consistent theme and atmosphere, unlike themepark 2 with it's catgirls and firebreathing midget clowns. Diablo 3 is scarcely worth commenting on, one doesn't even need to play it to list a dozen relevant flaws.
How has Grim Dawn changed over the last couple years btw? I played it a bit when it first came out and gave up on playing it ironman due to really spiky bullshit damage and a relative lack of interesting items and skills, but that was basically right when devotion was coming out. Has it gotten better since then? I used to like PoE before it's steady descent into a bizarre collection of cash shop incentives with a billion fractional item tokens to clutter inventory and making basically 99% of builds require trading with people (more cash shop incentives) to be viable and the weird catering to streamers with, again, deaths by going from 100% to dead in the space of 3 or 4 frames, often from something offscreen or that you'd only know is dangerous by mousing over to read the 30 modifiers under it's name (and letting it attack you while you're reading, as though that's safer in the long run.)
Are there any of these games that don't give the player massive amounts of life regen/leech so losing 20% of your health is a big deal and dying takes long than 1 second?
Diablo 1 wasnt a grind game, it was a looter with limited loot and enemies, meaning you didnt really control your build, you could end up as anything, but eventually if you kept playing you would max it all to the class max. Fighters didnt have much max intelligence, so even if you invested in that youd never really be great at it and would have to fall back on melee.
The way your character evolved through the playthrough was the real charm. Having to play a sorceror without mana shield or fireball was a fucking challenge for example.
No, you can build them around any skill. Legacy of Nightmares has been boosted to be on par with other endgame sets and blizzard has changed/added uniques to support all offensive skills so you can build a character around any of them.
I haven't played GD enough to know if it has more builds on paper but in practice I only found a handful of fun builds to play. Many builds (especially melee ones) feel very similar. In terms of actual gameplay variety both PoE and D3 feel more varied.
So why did you complain, earlier in the thread, that playing Diablo 2 in singleplayer requires one to be autistic? Would it not be a superfluous and irrelevant requirement if the genre is for autistics to begin with?
So why did you complain, earlier in the thread, that playing Diablo 2 in singleplayer requires one to be autistic? Would it not be a superfluous and irrelevant requirement if the genre is for autistics to begin with?
Diablo 3 wasn't bad. It wasn't great either, but I found combat to be fun and enjoyable. It was fast-paced and you could use a lot of skills and loot to create a build. Other than that, everything else was forgettable and Diablo 1 is still my favorite in the series.
and it's NOT standard practice, there are hybrid builds (IE: orb/fireball sorc because orb has only one shitty synergy) that use both elements regularly but you need serious investment for most skills to be useful in hell. there's some 1 point wonder exceptions (in classes that don't need it as much, like paladin and barb) but even if you deal with the immunity problem, monsters in hell, especially later on, become so powerful that you need serious gear just to put a dent in them with your main skills.
I'm gonna ramble a bit about untwinked play because this is what I know. Note that my standards of what I consider "fast" progression are probably still a far cry from a fully decked out end-game Hammerdin, but I probably still don't take as much time to finish my characters as a hardcore /p8 deliberately busted build player would. I like the whole levelling journey, most often untwinked or with a very small budget.
I don't know if I've posted this before, but I have a handy-dandy list of Diablo 2 builds that work very well progressing through all difficulty levels and have answers to every single problem on their way while boasting good survivability. Note that most of the time the D2 design at low-end levels of gear favors elementalists or other characters who generally rely on +skills rather than weapon damage, although weapon damage classes can do very well even with poor gear. If you're an untwinked character or otherwise working off of a small budget, any melee character can make Bonesnap, Steeldriver, Ribcracker or some other exceptional uniques viable throughout the game. There's plenty of budget runewords, there's Horadric Cube, and even a melee character can just keep poking around a vendor until they sell him a Cruel Elite weapon. Elite weapons can drop as early as Act 1 Nightmare, in fact, so you can craft yourself a respectable weapon in a Horadric Cube fairly early. Note that you also have a mercenary who can be fairly cheap to equip (updating the Insight recipe on newer polearms is usually good enough) and plenty of items with charges that grant Amplify Damage, Life Tap, Teleport or other useful skills. These builds do not beat records, but they can and will beat the game without "serious" gear, or even excessive, repeated farming of certain areas.
Amazon: Lightning Fury / Frozen Arrow Amazon works very well (can be a very efficient area 85 runner with poor gear) due to the LF portion being able to thrive using the proverbial cracked Javelin and Frozen Arrow is not only good crowd control, but works fairly well on LIs. You can replace FA with Strafe. If you're somewhat lucky, the relatively common bow Witchwild String is upgradable and grants a chance to inflict Amplify Damage along with good stats across the board, so if you find it you can respec to a pure Strafer.
Assassin: Trapper Assassins don't have absolutely any problems because Death Sentry clears up everything the Lightning Sentry won't. There are also viable Kick / Trap hybrids that literally only care about upgrading boots and Crushing Blow to cause a Death Sentry chain reaction, and even if you're unlucky, gambling for boots is one of the few decent ways to spend the otherwise not too useful gold in this game. One of the most self-sufficient classes.
Barbarian: Berserk Barb. You don't have much AoE, but you don't need it because the absolutely insane magic damage modifier (which hardly anything is immune to) one-shots enemies. You can go two-handed because Defense doesn't matter if you don't seriously pump stuff into it, and because Berserk synergizes with your crowd control, which you use (along with lifesteal) to keep yourself alive. Actually surprisingly safe. Otherwise, shopping or crafting Cruel Polearms can make WW work, and crafted Blood Nagas or farming up an Oath (doable in reasonable time with Hell Countess) can get you a decent Frenzier.
Druid: Windy has Physical and Cold Damage all packed up. If you found the humble Exceptional staff Ribcracker, then Ribcracker Werewolf is absurdly powerful even in Hell, provided you have the resists to survive in melee. (Steeldriver can work in a pinch too).
Necromancer: Any Necromancer spec works amazing because of how broken Corpse Explosion is at clearing everything instantly. All that matters is generating one corpse to set off a chain reaction. Curses are great for personal survivability and increasing killing speed. Summoner Necromancers are insanely safe, too, and the common hyperbole is to say that they can easily beat the game naked.
Paladin: Holy Shock Paladins are a good budget Zealot build that can live off runewords like Black and Crescent Moon for their whole career and they have no problems with dying because they're paladins who get max block by default. Hammerdins are another crowd favourite and they work rather well even without endgame gear (Maggot Lair sucks).
Sorceress: As rightfully pointed out, Orb doesn't care for synergies, but there is an entire wealth of good options that mix Blizzard, Fireball, Chain Lightning, Firewall or other spells. Generally speaking, solid base damage wins the race, and the Meteorb is just one way to go.
Note, also, that D2's "endgame" is pretty much entirely up to the player; not all characters are meant to be efficient at farming boss X, area Y, and some might not even be meant to go to Hell. Going through D2 on Normal can be very, very fast. Nightmare even faster. I've done Hell fairly fast with these budget builds. I object to the notion that you have to be extremely dedicated to finish a Hell character, or that it requires copious farming time or extreme luck. There are characters optimized for clearing Uber Tristram, the arguable pinnacle of PvE content in D2, that use unique items found commonly in Normal mode.
Which is something that I don't think Diablo 3 allows for. I played the game a fair bit a while ago and consider it moderately fun with its responsive controls, fast pace and the way visuals interact with the gameplay on-screen; there's something about seeing fire damage roasting monsters alive and candelabres falling on monsters and the entire game still managing to look smooth that I think took quite a bit of talent to come up with (in the art and animation department at least), even if it has obvious shortcomings. But one thing I think D3 is calculated for is the idea that you should be receiving gradual gear upgrades every so often, and that the gameplay is mostly about increasing numbers to meet increased numbers (via the Torment system). D2 doesn't really account for that and it's not unheard of to see Hell-viable builds that keep kicking ass while still using gear that looks really outdated. I absolutely crushed the entirety of Nightmare and still had a decent showing in Hell (against non-immunes) with multiple elemental melees (Holy Shockers and Fireclaws Werebear) equipped with a +40% Increased Attack Speed dagger bought from Charsi.
I'm fairly lukewarm / moderate in terms of opinions and can't really condemn D3 as a shit game, because I think it has some merits and that Blizzard still has some hard-working people with their heart in the right place (RoS did have quite a few grievances fixed), but I think a lot of the ways it alienates some players and brings in others is the way it appears to be a game entirely built around the end-game loot treadmill. In D3, you advance rapidly and you keep finding obvious item upgrades at a breakneck pace. In previous Diablo games, you can find absolute "keeper" items really early in the game.
But I also think a lot of people only really remember D2 for the loot treadmill. There's an entire wealth of guides to end-game builds filled with high-end runes, but not so much about basic thresholds for surviving in Hell after freshly killing Nightmare Baal, and I think a lot of people genuinely think Hell is impossible or a complete chore. I don't think so - I don't believe untwinked D2 has to be slow, painful or limited to just 2-3 builds as is often claimed. I find managing and splitting mobs in late Hell for safe dispatchment while juggling appropriate resistance gear to be exhilarating, and I generally do not complain of awful DPS while doing so. Of course, gear does scale, and there's a reason for those BotD barbs and Grief fana zealots to exist, but they are certainly not the benchmark that you have to meet in order to perform well in Hell at all.
I've played Diablo 3 to the point where I've completed sets for a couple of the characters and started pressing for the uber-legendary items. So I do know what the game's "end content" is like.
It does get fun at that point. Particularly the timed runs when you got that OP build finished and just start lighting shit up. But there's just so little growth or room to flex in the game. There's always a clear cut Tier 1 build for your character. I always put it down for a long while after 'maxing' one of these characters (in a season). And then you go to a game like Grim Dawn (or even Titan Quest) and you can go to the forums and see giant lists of builds you can do, and there are huge variations thanks to being able to match all the classes. What I hate is that the gameplay of D3 is extremely tight and responsive, it is without a doubt the most "action-y" game I've played in that Action RPG genre and it's probably the main thing that has kept it afloat all these years. The core of the game is such a skeleton, though. If you took D3's sense of action and slapped it on the depth of something like PoE you'd have an undisputed king of the genre in my estimation.
I mean... have you seen Warcraft 3?
