Diablo IV

[Dr Skeleton]

My main problem with Diablo 2 isn't even with its inflation, though that doesn't help. But what really kills it for me is how different the atmosphere is. Diablo 1 really nailed it with the NPCs, the village, the music, the enemy design, the spell design, the way magic worked with you having to look for those tomes. A lot of it was really simple and people might say the healer or the blacksmith are hardly the epitome of drama. But that is besides the point, they worked within the setting and worked really well. Diablo 2 never has the same impact with the player, at least it didn't to me. I specially dislike the class selection. The necromancer might have worked, although obviously not as a hero. The sorceress is less interesting as a character than the wizard from diablo 1, which at least looked foreign without looking displaced. The barbarian and the paladin too didn't look like they belonged in the same setting as Diablo 1, altoughI suppose it could have been made to work. The amazon however looked bad, really breaking the gothic atmosphere, but I have a special hatred for the druid because after making it such a big deal the secrets that were supposed buried in the church in Diablo 1, Diablo 2 comes along with a class based on a completely different kind of magic from the one we had seen in the previous game, and this just makes it feel cheap somehow.

D1 was a shorter, more focused game with a consistent atmosphere. There is one dungeon that only goes deeper until you kill the boss. All enemies are either demons, undead or demonic beasts that might as well be demons, it all fits together very well. Enemies don't respawn, you fight with the gear and spell books the game gives you. It's not as long or replayable as D2 and doesn't have the character system and crazy itemization of D2, multiplayer in D2 is much better, but I like D1 more overall, there has never really been another Diablo game like Diablo 1.

D2 is a world tour of fighting horror enemies, mummies in the desert, cannibal-pygmies in the jungle, abominable snowmen etc, the original feel of D1 gets lost somewhere but that's to be expected with a much bigger game. There are some new cool enemies but they got really lazy in some cases too, giant spiders, insect swarms, beetles, vultures, furry cat-people(?), evil porcupines shooting thorns, that's as shitty as it gets. Another difference is the quality of enemies, in D1 if you get surrounded or get into bad position where archers start hitting you, you can just die to some random low-level monsters. In D2 most normal monsters are just there to get killed, the threat comes mostly from elites and their modifiers, and you can always run away. D2 has much bigger areas so it wouldn't work without running, but it also changes the combat dynamics from D1 completely when you can just charge an archer or a mage and outmaneuver most monsters. The classes are different and more powerful than in D1 and fit the world of D2 but wouldn't necessarily fit the world of D1. D2 is still a great game but it's not really the same type of game as D1.

It's not exactly the fault of D2 designers but in some sense you can see the foreshadowing of the retarded design of D3 in D2 because they somehow took all the wrong lessons from it. People just put x amount into stats and ignore other stats? Let's just have the stats level automatically. Everyone is hunting for the best rune/unique/set items? Let's make everything that's not mythic unique complete shit that no one uses. We go from some adventurer in D1, to tasmanian devil barbarian in D2, to superhero nephelem in D3. Monsters didn't respawn in D1, D2 has respawns and started the thing where you'd kill the same bosses over and over for loot, so in D3 you just measure your DPS in rifts and get cool new mythic ancient level-scaled items, any sense of progressing in the story or beating the game got lost.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

There are some new cool enemies but they got really lazy in some cases too, giant spiders, insect swarms, beetles, vultures, furry cat-people(?), evil porcupines shooting thorns, that's as shitty as it gets.

HEY MAN FUCK YOU MAN.

D2 is a great game, but if you ask me that's where the big problems began. D2 gets more leeway because it was a huge influence on all that came after it and it managed to be a really fun game but expanding its scope in every way also made it deviate from the path D1 laid. D1 to D2 reminds me of a genre shift you get from films like Alien to Aliens or Terminator to Terminator 2. D1 is more built on its atmosphere, it encourages a more methodical approach, you walk everywhere because running into a room head first is a good way to die, the light radius is actually used to full effect. In D2 you'll see monsters easily in the distance, in D1 you see their dark outlines approaching. They may look similar at first, but D1 has a completely different vibe and execution that makes it more memorable in the right ways.

How I always put it is to think of Diablo as a metal band. D1 is their first ever album, it's raw, intense, a bit rough in some places but provides a sound that's distinct and aggressive. D2 is the popular album, the one most people know and cite as the best, it even has some singles they'll play on radio stations. D3 is that overwhelming disappointment album that tries to change their sound drastically, it's much more pop rock so it can appeal to a wider audience but falls flat since it's not what the band was founded on. D4 is like that new album that they promise is going to "sound like their older ones" but remains to be seen. It may provide some glimpses, but you know deep down it can never go back to that original sound. If D2 is Raining Blood/South of Heaven, D1 would be Show No Mercy/Hell Awaits.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

As long as everything is truly cosmetic I don't see why it's even worth noting.

Because these shit belongs in F2P games.

PoE get a pass for it because it is F2P.

Diablo IV will be a B2P game.

 

[abija]

I get the feeling that a lot of you don't really play this genre

The secret behind most codex threads :p

 

[Viata]

If D2 is Raining Blood/South of Heaven, D1 would be Show No Mercy/Hell Awaits.

But Reign in Blood and Show No Mercy are so fucking great I can't decide which is better, while I can easily find D1 better than D2.

 

[Swigen]

Am I high or did they fix the difficulty in Diablo 3? Playing through it again I noticed I’m not raising the difficulty to Torment immediately and merchants are actually selling viable merch in act 3.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Playing through it again

No Swigen. This is not how you die.

https://af.gog.com/game/diablo?as=1649904300

 

[Cryomancer]

About Player Killing, i remember when i was playing as a necro, got PKilled by a lightning sorceress, purchased a armor only to have iron golem, revived a army of creatures immune to lightning and teleported in her direction... I din't had enigma, i used a staff with charges to do that.

--------------------------------------------

Anyway, Diablo 3 has most things that i HATE on post wow """rpgs"""

• WoW like itemization where tons of affixes got simplified into finding the boots that increase your muscle mass or IQ depending your class. RoS brought a innovation and you gear only to inflate your damage via ludicrous 500X multipliers
• No character progression
• Loadout system, killing character individuality.
• WoW like graphics
• WoW like rotation/cooldown based rotation combat.
• Inflation. D3 numbers are like

 

[Onionguy]

As far as I agree with the point that D1 had an overall more consistent theme, and that the sequel abandons a lot of the tension by adopting globetrotting style of adventure, stylistically and atmosphere-wise D2 is still leagues above most things that followed. In my mind diluted awesomeness is still awesomeness. I could never quite get why the second act desert is what killed the mood for so many people. As if darkness was exclusively defined by a complete absence of light and endless rows of gothic castles and graveyards. Despite its occasional wackiness, it's still a fucking grim wasteland in my book. There is hardly any other isometric game since, maybe aside Arcanum and Icewind Dale 2 that had similar quality and consistency in the art and music department. I can really forgive D2 problems, since an average game today, is a mixture between Other Worlds and DOS2- a hallow, eye candy barf for people with sub-par aesthetic taste.

It seem to me, that a lot of people here worship P: Kingmaker as the second coming of Christ, and maybe it is, but it also looks like a Barbie house a bit at times, so if that doesn't bother you, then please stop shitting on classic games Thus ends my edgy comment.

 

[hello friend]

I wonder if people might've liked Diablo 2 better if it was released episodically, with each act an episode

Only act that's a bit of a letdown atmosphere wise is act 5

 

[Artyoan]

The Desert second act was my favorite act. It was act three's rainforest that tended to irritate me. Meandering forest with the most annoying enemies in the game. I do like Diablo 2 for a lot of reasons but it was a giant leap away from the high tension/foreboding tone of Diablo 1 to the underestimated Super Hero squad. So even though I'd rake the Diablo 3 developers over the coals for botching the tone, I understand it if they only played Diablo 2. They were clearly homogenizing their franchises into an identifiable Blizzard brand. Lots of humor, pop culture, color, exaggerated design, and ham. But with some moments of sincerity.

Diablo 4 appears to be a return to darkness but it will mean a lot less if they still slob knob the 'nephalem' and give you the sense that evil is afraid of you. Given that they seem to be carrying D3's itemization forward, at least to begin with, the inflation of damage numbers will give the wrong vibes. At some point they agreed to make Diablo 3 an experimentation tool. A lot of its concepts bled into World of Warcraft. No reason they wouldn't carry it on with D4. The RNG on top of RNG designed to always keep the players with the sense that they do not have the best in slot items. To keep playing, and buying stuff. The inclusion of +Attack on so many slots makes it very easy to balance and bloat the numbers for new seasons/patches. But its horribly boring to make decisions about. And contributes to making the entire leveling process into a tutorial speedbump on the way to the real game.

They are saying they'd like feedback. I'd guess what you see now for the demo is what it will still be at release. Better engine, better feeling combat, darker aesthetic, but still Diablo 3 with more microtransactions. Diablo 3.5

 

[Swigen]

Playing through it again

No Swigen. This is not how you die.

https://af.gog.com/game/diablo?as=1649904300

Haha, I got it already. For some reason just digging 3 at the moment. I don’t know if I just remember it different or if they’ve been patching the shit out of it this whole time but it seems a little better balanced. Not swimming in cash and facerolling everything right off. It’s an arcade version of Diablo for sure but playing through it again after all the clones, I can see how much effort they put into it. It failed at capturing the atmosphere of the old ones and the loot and character builds are suspect but goddamn if they didn’t try.

 

[EruDaan]

There are some new cool enemies but they got really lazy in some cases too, giant spiders, insect swarms, beetles, vultures, furry cat-people(?), evil porcupines shooting thorns, that's as shitty as it gets.

Well, sometimes I wish designers would just stop putting spiders into games. Yeah, they are creepy and sometimes a little bit disgusting... but sometimes, sometimes I wish they'd get replaced by scorpions or something like giant crabs or land borne lobster like things instead of black/dark 8-legged creeps that fall from the "ceiling" with their only feature being creepy. And their web-spitting "ability". It pains me to confess that they only reason I stopped playing Path of Exile, a game with an unbelievable amount of atmosphere and which I really, really liked, was the spider queen and the whole spider dungeon.

The rainforest level in D2 was surely meant to be some kind of dark unholy forest infested by evil. Problem was that it didn't look like it. Some trees, some rivers and nothing else that could convey a feeling of darkness of being watched of things hiding behind every tree and below the ground.

 

[Storyfag]

I wonder if people might've liked Diablo 2 better if it was released episodically, with each act an episode

Only act that's a bit of a letdown atmosphere wise is act 5

I believe each act would have been better had they reduced the amount of overland maps and increased the number of dungeon levels/expanded the levels themselves.

 

[Shadenuat]

The Desert second act was my favorite act. It was act three's rainforest that tended to irritate me. Meandering forest with the most annoying enemies in the game

Kurwast is where game just tells you to stop fucking around with your stupid character and just roll a Sorceress.

Still the all powerful itemization solved my late problems as I just bought around 3 items with Frost Nova proc on when my bear gets hit.

It's not actually that awful to navigate, it actually is very simple as all areas are connected and you just need 1 item; you always just travel upriver. I hate sewers much more there.
Generally speaking half of the areas in D2 scream for remaster and some waypoint redesign.

I mostly hate:
Jail
Maggot lair
Kurwast flail dungeon
Kurwast sewers
Nithlak's faggotcombs

And also most of act pre-boss filler areas (like durance of hate etc.) because they feel pointless, with exception of cross-shaped Chaos Sanctuary.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Act 2 was decent, it would have been better without the catgirls and bug queen, but overall was pretty good. Ancient tombs and mummies and snake demons are all a good fit.

Swamp got really silly. Pygmies and witchdoctors don't fit the setting at all, they're too comical. Act 4 was silly because it raised the bar to an unreachable height. Nothing, logically, should be more powerful of a foe for you than diablo in his own realm. Which made Act 5 anticlimactic and made the prime evils seem like a joke the humans should have easily crushed.

I recently watched someone do a review of an old adventure game where you have to kill an elder vampire. To win the fight, you need to blind yourself with a poison mushroom to avoid his hypnotic gaze, wear a wreath of garlic, use holy water on him, premptively nail his coffin shut, and release a box of all the sunlight he had been trapping to keep his realm in eternal darkness. It was an entirely appropriate level of preparation and setup for such a foe. Diablo should have required even more.

 

[Artyoan]

The maggot lair is like the swamps in Dark Souls games. I want to say I hate it. But while I dread going into it, there is a sense of relief once I get out. And I remember it distinctly. Throwing in a little bullshit at the players is a net positive. Just keep it rare.

 

[Shadenuat]

It could have been corridors and poison but at least different structure. Swamp in DS has like 2 entrances at least afaik.

i partied today like 13 yo me

2500 hp bear soloed Lister (I think what happened was bear stuck on that piece of terrain you see there, and couldn't be knocked back any more so Lister ability didn't work), while me and Meghan helped.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Well, sometimes I wish designers would just stop putting spiders into games. Yeah, they are creepy and sometimes a little bit disgusting... but sometimes, sometimes I wish they'd get replaced by scorpions or something like giant crabs or land borne lobster like things instead of black/dark 8-legged creeps that fall from the "ceiling" with their only feature being creepy. And their web-spitting "ability". It pains me to confess that they only reason I stopped playing Path of Exile, a game with an unbelievable amount of atmosphere and which I really, really liked, was the spider queen and the whole spider dungeon.

Spiders are the greatest goon enemy in fantasy games and you will love our uselessness in combat and ability to badly animate in Bethesda games.

 

[Tiger]

Sooo did this "news" got posted here?!

Diablo 4 will have cosmetic microtransactions

https://www.pcgamesn.com/diablo-4/microtransactions

It made it, along with always online. Conveniently ignored. Don't any of you buying this shit dare complain about stuff like microtransactions in the future cos you're enablers. Mugs like you encourage this shit.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I thought most of the end act areas were pretty nice in D2. Catacombs was cool and Chaos Sanctuary was great. I didn't like the Tal Rasha Tomb and the Worldstone Cavern was average, the Throne of Destruction where you face waves of superunique enemies was good though.

Durance of Hate was my favorite of them because it environmentally made Mephisto look like a huge badass. Piles of corpses everywhere, a blood moat, the portal to Hell right there, it was a good place to look at. The exploding manlet enemies though, oooh, fuck those guys.

The Harem was also pretty cool environmentally. Completely butchered guards and the women being tied up and tortured/possibly raped was a good sinister touch.

 

[Shadenuat]

End areas are ok, but the areas before them is always 3 areas of filler with WP on level 2. A1/3/5 follow this formula.
Exceptions are Tal Rasha: interesting fake tombs with great farming potential & Chaos Sanctuary which is also semi-open big area.

I wonder if for D2 randomly generated levels were just wasted effort.

 

[Storyfag]

Well, sometimes I wish designers would just stop putting spiders into games. Yeah, they are creepy and sometimes a little bit disgusting... but sometimes, sometimes I wish they'd get replaced by scorpions or something like giant crabs or land borne lobster like things instead of black/dark 8-legged creeps that fall from the "ceiling" with their only feature being creepy. And their web-spitting "ability". It pains me to confess that they only reason I stopped playing Path of Exile, a game with an unbelievable amount of atmosphere and which I really, really liked, was the spider queen and the whole spider dungeon.

Spiders are the greatest goon enemy in fantasy games and you will love our uselessness in combat and ability to badly animate in Bethesda games.

*demonic* spiders

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Exceptions are Tal Rasha: interesting fake tombs with great farming potential & Chaos Sanctuary which is also semi-open big area.

Tal Rasha tombs would've been 10x better if you weren't given the "correct symbol" and had to guess. If you guessed wrong, you'd inevitably face a bunch of very tough enemies (they kind of did this with Ancient Kaa the Soulless) and if you guessed right... you face Duriel.

So either way you eat demonic dick. That's how I'd make it.

 

[Shadenuat]

Perhaps they intended it to be so. Did you notice symbols in Arcane Sanctuary where Summoner is? Maybe it could have worked as a hint; but testers derped out so devs just gave the correct one.