Disco Elysium creative lead Robert Kurvitz was quietly fired from ZA/UM in late 2021, files lawsuit against them

[KVVRR]

Whether the financial guys are convicted or not they are clearly worse people than Kurwitz but with superior social skills

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm just wrapping up the documentary and if there's anything clear in this whole ordeal is that whoever is in charge of ZA/UM's PR needs to be fired yesterday. They had six months before the news broke of the leads being fired, and when shit hit the fan they fired on all cylinders by claiming all sorts of wild shit with zero proof to back it on. This documentary is evidence that, realistically, all they needed to do to "justify" their firing in the eyes of the mayority of the fanbase was talk to the employees at the company and ask what their take was. Instead they accussed them of mysoginy, trying to steal the IP to sell to other studios (???), lying about the whole money fiasco, etc. I'd need some time to think on it but right now imo realistically the only thing that you could kinda see as being true was them not fullfilling their roles for the final cut, which honestly I find easy to believe seeing as how the entire development of DE was always depicted as a burnout highway. Maybe some mistreatment too, Robert seems like the kind of lead that wouldn't hold back on his words towards other's work.
Seriously, how the fuck is there no paperwork to point out that Kurvitz and company are lying? I can believe them not having any paperwork, they're writers and artists, but how the fuck does that go by the bussinessmen that are juggling millions of euros around?

snip

It's weird that Helen not doing all that much for the Final Cut with Justin having to come up and pick up the slack while writing most of it is just coming out now. If true then they absolutely have the chops to produce something of the same quality as the base game -- but that's a big if. All we have are he said she said at the moment. Although a lot of people seem to think Helen didn't do that much at all, I'd bet that having to compare her to Robert also didn't do her any favours. The guy's on record saying that he was working 12 hour days and weekends too. If that's also true of course Helen working a normal schedule would seem like "barely anything".
It's weird though because you even have people within ZA/UM saying that she either didn't do anything to their knowledge or that it's just wrong to say that she didn't do anything, but that she was working in a reduced capacity. Apparently she didn't know about the deadline for the Final Cut until what, a month before it? If that's the case, yeah, of course she'd take it easy. There was no rush.
There's just too many ifs and finger pointing in this. I personally agree with what Argo (is that his name?) said: regardless of the situation, Kurvitz should be allowed to work on this IP. Even as just another writer and not a lead one. It's his baby, his universe.
Also I don't entirely understand why they'd want to steal Disco Elysium's source code. Sure it'd be easier to make a similar game with it, but isn't it just based on Unity? As far as I know besides some tools to help development out there's nothing that's particullary stand out about it. There are other games that have come out after Disco Elysium that basically use the exact same format as it, indie ones at that.

On another note: Helen being just a teen when she and Kurvitz started a relationship makes a surprising lot of sense when you consider that one of the three main characters in Sacred and Terrible Air is, by his own admission, a pedophile. He's dating a supermodel that he knew since she was 14 iirc. Wonder where he got that idea?

 

[Axioms]

Whether the financial guys are convicted or not they are clearly worse people than Kurwitz but with superior social skills

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm just wrapping up the documentary and if there's anything clear in this whole ordeal is that whoever is in charge of ZA/UM's PR needs to be fired yesterday. They had six months before the news broke of the leads being fired, and when shit hit the fan they fired on all cylinders by claiming all sorts of wild shit with zero proof to back it on. This documentary is evidence that, realistically, all they needed to do to "justify" their firing in the eyes of the mayority of the fanbase was talk to the employees at the company and ask what their take was. Instead they accussed them of mysoginy, trying to steal the IP to sell to other studios (???), lying about the whole money fiasco, etc. I'd need some time to think on it but right now imo realistically the only thing that you could kinda see as being true was them not fullfilling their roles for the final cut, which honestly I find easy to believe seeing as how the entire development of DE was always depicted as a burnout highway. Maybe some mistreatment too, Robert seems like the kind of lead that wouldn't hold back on his words towards other's work.
Seriously, how the fuck is there no paperwork to point out that Kurvitz and company are lying? I can believe them not having any paperwork, they're writers and artists, but how the fuck does that go by the bussinessmen that are juggling millions of euros around?

I assume you are objecting to the social skills part. Disagree. Kurwitz is clearly a typical autistic auteur type, even if he isn't actually autistic. Even his friends imply that he has social difficulties and a difficult temperment.

 

[Maxie]

Whether the financial guys are convicted or not they are clearly worse people than Kurwitz but with superior social skills

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm just wrapping up the documentary and if there's anything clear in this whole ordeal is that whoever is in charge of ZA/UM's PR needs to be fired yesterday. They had six months before the news broke of the leads being fired, and when shit hit the fan they fired on all cylinders by claiming all sorts of wild shit with zero proof to back it on. This documentary is evidence that, realistically, all they needed to do to "justify" their firing in the eyes of the mayority of the fanbase was talk to the employees at the company and ask what their take was. Instead they accussed them of mysoginy, trying to steal the IP to sell to other studios (???), lying about the whole money fiasco, etc. I'd need some time to think on it but right now imo realistically the only thing that you could kinda see as being true was them not fullfilling their roles for the final cut, which honestly I find easy to believe seeing as how the entire development of DE was always depicted as a burnout highway. Maybe some mistreatment too, Robert seems like the kind of lead that wouldn't hold back on his words towards other's work.
Seriously, how the fuck is there no paperwork to point out that Kurvitz and company are lying? I can believe them not having any paperwork, they're writers and artists, but how the fuck does that go by the bussinessmen that are juggling millions of euros around?

I assume you are objecting to the social skills part. Disagree. Kurwitz is clearly a typical autistic auteur type, even if he isn't actually autistic. Even his friends imply that he has social difficulties and a difficult temperment.

it's called alcoholism and you cure that with esperal

 

[karoliner]

Also, yes, Helen Hindpere is Kurvitz's girlfriend. I've known that for a couple of years but it's been a strangely well-kept secret.

Around the 10 minute mark the video says she was 14 when she joined ZA/UM.

Didn't expect a commie to be so based.

 

[KVVRR]

Whether the financial guys are convicted or not they are clearly worse people than Kurwitz but with superior social skills

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm just wrapping up the documentary and if there's anything clear in this whole ordeal is that whoever is in charge of ZA/UM's PR needs to be fired yesterday. They had six months before the news broke of the leads being fired, and when shit hit the fan they fired on all cylinders by claiming all sorts of wild shit with zero proof to back it on. This documentary is evidence that, realistically, all they needed to do to "justify" their firing in the eyes of the mayority of the fanbase was talk to the employees at the company and ask what their take was. Instead they accussed them of mysoginy, trying to steal the IP to sell to other studios (???), lying about the whole money fiasco, etc. I'd need some time to think on it but right now imo realistically the only thing that you could kinda see as being true was them not fullfilling their roles for the final cut, which honestly I find easy to believe seeing as how the entire development of DE was always depicted as a burnout highway. Maybe some mistreatment too, Robert seems like the kind of lead that wouldn't hold back on his words towards other's work.
Seriously, how the fuck is there no paperwork to point out that Kurvitz and company are lying? I can believe them not having any paperwork, they're writers and artists, but how the fuck does that go by the bussinessmen that are juggling millions of euros around?

I assume you are objecting to the social skills part. Disagree. Kurwitz is clearly a typical autistic auteur type, even if he isn't actually autistic. Even his friends imply that he has social difficulties and a difficult temperment.

Autists (almost never) have the way with words that Kurwitz has. Even Kompus admits in his interview that they're storytellers, and that this is what they do. He does seem to be tonedeaf at times and he's totally sidelining the complains his former coworkers/friends had about his experiences with him on that last email, but when you look at the bigger picture, who do you see people siding with? Kompus, or Kurwitz?

 

[0sacred]

Commies, child fuckers, and people who think shit combat was a good thing in PS:T. Couldn't find a better poster child for decline than this troupe.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Wait, Prime Junta was involved with Disco Elysium? I always knew that if he got into gamedev, it would be a shit game.

Good thing he joined after the game was released, thus Disco turned out great.

Bad thing for the studio, though.

He did provide some volunteer assistance with its development before formally joining, for which he was included in the credits.

Perhaps you can find out whether Prime Junta ever played through Disco Elysium a second time, or if he still considers it the best game he's ever played once.

 

[Axioms]

Whether the financial guys are convicted or not they are clearly worse people than Kurwitz but with superior social skills

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm just wrapping up the documentary and if there's anything clear in this whole ordeal is that whoever is in charge of ZA/UM's PR needs to be fired yesterday. They had six months before the news broke of the leads being fired, and when shit hit the fan they fired on all cylinders by claiming all sorts of wild shit with zero proof to back it on. This documentary is evidence that, realistically, all they needed to do to "justify" their firing in the eyes of the mayority of the fanbase was talk to the employees at the company and ask what their take was. Instead they accussed them of mysoginy, trying to steal the IP to sell to other studios (???), lying about the whole money fiasco, etc. I'd need some time to think on it but right now imo realistically the only thing that you could kinda see as being true was them not fullfilling their roles for the final cut, which honestly I find easy to believe seeing as how the entire development of DE was always depicted as a burnout highway. Maybe some mistreatment too, Robert seems like the kind of lead that wouldn't hold back on his words towards other's work.
Seriously, how the fuck is there no paperwork to point out that Kurvitz and company are lying? I can believe them not having any paperwork, they're writers and artists, but how the fuck does that go by the bussinessmen that are juggling millions of euros around?

I assume you are objecting to the social skills part. Disagree. Kurwitz is clearly a typical autistic auteur type, even if he isn't actually autistic. Even his friends imply that he has social difficulties and a difficult temperment.

Autists (almost never) have the way with words that Kurwitz has. Even Kompus admits in his interview that they're storytellers, and that this is what they do. He does seem to be tonedeaf at times and he's totally sidelining the complains his former coworkers/friends had about his experiences with him on that last email, but when you look at the bigger picture, who do you see people siding with? Kompus, or Kurwitz?

Siding with? The party that is still capable of releasing a functional game. That's called capitalism. No one is gonna like or support Kompus himself but they'll support the company he profits from for sure.

 

[KVVRR]

Whether the financial guys are convicted or not they are clearly worse people than Kurwitz but with superior social skills

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm just wrapping up the documentary and if there's anything clear in this whole ordeal is that whoever is in charge of ZA/UM's PR needs to be fired yesterday. They had six months before the news broke of the leads being fired, and when shit hit the fan they fired on all cylinders by claiming all sorts of wild shit with zero proof to back it on. This documentary is evidence that, realistically, all they needed to do to "justify" their firing in the eyes of the mayority of the fanbase was talk to the employees at the company and ask what their take was. Instead they accussed them of mysoginy, trying to steal the IP to sell to other studios (???), lying about the whole money fiasco, etc. I'd need some time to think on it but right now imo realistically the only thing that you could kinda see as being true was them not fullfilling their roles for the final cut, which honestly I find easy to believe seeing as how the entire development of DE was always depicted as a burnout highway. Maybe some mistreatment too, Robert seems like the kind of lead that wouldn't hold back on his words towards other's work.
Seriously, how the fuck is there no paperwork to point out that Kurvitz and company are lying? I can believe them not having any paperwork, they're writers and artists, but how the fuck does that go by the bussinessmen that are juggling millions of euros around?

I assume you are objecting to the social skills part. Disagree. Kurwitz is clearly a typical autistic auteur type, even if he isn't actually autistic. Even his friends imply that he has social difficulties and a difficult temperment.

Autists (almost never) have the way with words that Kurwitz has. Even Kompus admits in his interview that they're storytellers, and that this is what they do. He does seem to be tonedeaf at times and he's totally sidelining the complains his former coworkers/friends had about his experiences with him on that last email, but when you look at the bigger picture, who do you see people siding with? Kompus, or Kurwitz?

Siding with? The party that is still capable of releasing a functional game. That's called capitalism. No one is gonna like or support Kompus himself but they'll support the company he profits from for sure.

Did you miss just how many people were boycotting ZA/UM just because of this? They're not an AAA company being bankrolled by Blackrock, they're an one-hit-wonder indie studio which has been under a PR disaster due to how badly they've managed this whole situation. Meanwhile Kurvikz has apparently been able to secure funding with the chinese goverment (lmao) for his new studio.

 

[Axioms]

Whether the financial guys are convicted or not they are clearly worse people than Kurwitz but with superior social skills

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I'm just wrapping up the documentary and if there's anything clear in this whole ordeal is that whoever is in charge of ZA/UM's PR needs to be fired yesterday. They had six months before the news broke of the leads being fired, and when shit hit the fan they fired on all cylinders by claiming all sorts of wild shit with zero proof to back it on. This documentary is evidence that, realistically, all they needed to do to "justify" their firing in the eyes of the mayority of the fanbase was talk to the employees at the company and ask what their take was. Instead they accussed them of mysoginy, trying to steal the IP to sell to other studios (???), lying about the whole money fiasco, etc. I'd need some time to think on it but right now imo realistically the only thing that you could kinda see as being true was them not fullfilling their roles for the final cut, which honestly I find easy to believe seeing as how the entire development of DE was always depicted as a burnout highway. Maybe some mistreatment too, Robert seems like the kind of lead that wouldn't hold back on his words towards other's work.
Seriously, how the fuck is there no paperwork to point out that Kurvitz and company are lying? I can believe them not having any paperwork, they're writers and artists, but how the fuck does that go by the bussinessmen that are juggling millions of euros around?

I assume you are objecting to the social skills part. Disagree. Kurwitz is clearly a typical autistic auteur type, even if he isn't actually autistic. Even his friends imply that he has social difficulties and a difficult temperment.

Autists (almost never) have the way with words that Kurwitz has. Even Kompus admits in his interview that they're storytellers, and that this is what they do. He does seem to be tonedeaf at times and he's totally sidelining the complains his former coworkers/friends had about his experiences with him on that last email, but when you look at the bigger picture, who do you see people siding with? Kompus, or Kurwitz?

Siding with? The party that is still capable of releasing a functional game. That's called capitalism. No one is gonna like or support Kompus himself but they'll support the company he profits from for sure.

Did you miss just how many people were boycotting ZA/UM just because of this? They're not an AAA company being bankrolled by Blackrock, they're an one-hit-wonder indie studio which has been under a PR disaster due to how badly they've managed this whole situation. Meanwhile Kurvikz has apparently been able to secure funding with the chinese goverment (lmao) for his new studio.

I'm sure plenty of diehards are dumping on ZA/UM but that isn't the whole community. And once the PMG video pops some more its gonna go even harder against Kurwitz.

Also literally anyone can get the China money, especially left wingers.

 

[ItsChon]

Who knows how things played out between Kurvitz and Helen. In Kwan, two seventeen year olds can have sex and it'll be fine, but if one of them turns eighteen the next day and they have sex again, it's statutory rape. Obviously I'm being hyperbolic and this isn't exactly how the law works, but the point I'm making a point. Unless we know when exactly they started dating and the history of their interactions leading up to it, it's useless to throw around accusations. These situations are extremely nuanced, and it is due to Kwan's popularized version of black and white "morality" that we throw words such as grooming around when they might not be applicable.

As for ZA/UM and future products, I would love for them to make DE like games in other settings. DE in the Fallen London Universe as an example would be great. In a perfect world, ZA/UM brings Kurvitz back to work on DE as an independent contractor with limited involvement, so he can make money and work on his creation, while also having plenty of time and energy to focus on his new development studio. Of course, that will never happen, and it likely wouldn't be possible since I imagine running a studio to be a full time endeavor, but oh well. I'm just glad we got one great game out of all this.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Also, yes, Helen Hindpere is Kurvitz's girlfriend. I've known that for a couple of years but it's been a strangely well-kept secret.

Around the 10 minute mark the video says she was 14 when she joined ZA/UM.

The age of consent in Estonia is 16, as specified by Section 145 of the Criminal Code of Republic of Estonia

Groomer! Groomer! Groomer! We've got a groomer heah!

Before 2021 the age of consent in Estonia was 14. So, technically Kurvitz didn't break the law.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

I enjoyed the documentary and the two hour-long interviews with Ilmar Kompus and Argo Tuulik immensely. I think the composition consisting of these three video objects is much more genuine art than Disco Elysium ever could become. And a lot funnier, at that.

 

[Skorpion]

Also, yes, Helen Hindpere is Kurvitz's girlfriend. I've known that for a couple of years but it's been a strangely well-kept secret.

Around the 10 minute mark the video says she was 14 when she joined ZA/UM.

The age of consent in Estonia is 16, as specified by Section 145 of the Criminal Code of Republic of Estonia

Groomer! Groomer! Groomer! We've got a groomer heah!

Before 2021 the age of consent in Estonia was 14. So, technically Kurvitz didn't break the law.

this is such an AkShually! meme
dudes a freak in every other way as a person and your defending whether or not he broke laws trying to fuck a 14 year old?
Yeah his upstanding character leads me to think the... fucking worst of the cunt.

 

[Roguey]

this is such an AkShually! meme
dudes a freak in every other way as a person and your defending whether or not he broke laws trying to fuck a 14 year old?
Yeah his upstanding character leads me to think the... fucking worst of the cunt.

Well he is correct and my reading of the situation wasn't comprehensive. He may be a creep, but he was no law-breaker.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Just like Roguey

 

[Haba]

Roguey has broken multiple laws. Just by existing.

 

[hivemind]

Honestly I am not at all surprised at the reveals in the documentary.

People who are vehemently opposed to combat in RPGs are spiritually sick people, who without an outlet for their inner energies end up channeling the lifeforce that would normally be used to minmax a build or figure out the tactic to a difficult encounter into bullying and abusing others in their life, the fact that such people also tend to be pedophiles is also self apparent.

 

[Longes]

- The property of a book of short stories and 4 black and white sketches was bought by Kompus' own company, Tütreke, for one pound sterling (which would be just over an euro or about a dollar).

- Kompus then resold the intellectual property of this book to the ZA/UM studio, where he was already a shareholder, for a total of 4,8 million euros. That is one of the biggest "profits" in history because the sale is millions of times its original value.

- It is presumed that, with this money that was transferred from ZA/UM to Kompus' company, Kompus was able to afford to buy most of the shares that belonged to Linnamäe.

Lol, that's like the one of the oldest corporate trick to extract investor money from a company you own. I don't know about ex comiie land, but everywhere else is kinda illegal.

If anyone is interested the other corporate trick to extract investor money is to loan money to your own company using money you get from a bank using the same company shares as collateral.

>ex comiie land

My man, ZA/UM packed up and moved to the UK the second they had the money to do so.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

- The property of a book of short stories and 4 black and white sketches was bought by Kompus' own company, Tütreke, for one pound sterling (which would be just over an euro or about a dollar).

- Kompus then resold the intellectual property of this book to the ZA/UM studio, where he was already a shareholder, for a total of 4,8 million euros. That is one of the biggest "profits" in history because the sale is millions of times its original value.

- It is presumed that, with this money that was transferred from ZA/UM to Kompus' company, Kompus was able to afford to buy most of the shares that belonged to Linnamäe.

Lol, that's like the one of the oldest corporate trick to extract investor money from a company you own. I don't know about ex comiie land, but everywhere else is kinda illegal.

If anyone is interested the other corporate trick to extract investor money is to loan money to your own company using money you get from a bank using the same company shares as collateral.

>ex comiie land

My man, ZA/UM packed up and moved to the UK the second they had the money to do so.

A truly codexian conundrum

 

[Lagole Gon]

Well, I could spend my morning reading about convoluted commie drama...



But I will go for a walk in my nice green neighbourhood instead.

 

[Maxie]

Who knows how things played out between Kurvitz and Helen. In Kwan, two seventeen year olds can have sex and it'll be fine, but if one of them turns eighteen the next day and they have sex again, it's statutory rape. Obviously I'm being hyperbolic and this isn't exactly how the law works, but the point I'm making a point. Unless we know when exactly they started dating and the history of their interactions leading up to it, it's useless to throw around accusations. These situations are extremely nuanced, and it is due to Kwan's popularized version of black and white "morality" that we throw words such as grooming around when they might not be applicable.

As for ZA/UM and future products, I would love for them to make DE like games in other settings. DE in the Fallen London Universe as an example would be great. In a perfect world, ZA/UM brings Kurvitz back to work on DE as an independent contractor with limited involvement, so he can make money and work on his creation, while also having plenty of time and energy to focus on his new development studio. Of course, that will never happen, and it likely wouldn't be possible since I imagine running a studio to be a full time endeavor, but oh well. I'm just glad we got one great game out of all this.

I know perfectly well how did things play out because I'm older than you and saw my share of pedophile configurations
It's a dumbass pampered girl without a father figure who got onto the champagne communist train 'book club' and was groomed by a social reject twice her age

 

[Tacgnol]

Hey guys, what is going on in this thr-

Seriously wtf.

This whole thing is starting to sound more and more like terrible people fighting with other terrible people.

 

[Darth Roxor]

This whole thing is starting to sound more and more like terrible people fighting with other terrible people.

like that thing darth roxor was talking about

 

[Maxie]

This whole thing is starting to sound more and more like terrible people fighting with other terrible people.

like that thing darth roxor was talking about

good job you've joined the illustrious group of self-important faggots talking about themselves in third person along with wałęsa and lepper