Disco Elysium creative lead Robert Kurvitz was quietly fired from ZA/UM in late 2021, files lawsuit against them

[thesheeep]

This documentary is evidence that, realistically, all they needed to do to "justify" their firing in the eyes of the mayority of the fanbase was talk to the employees at the company and ask what their take was. Instead they accussed them of mysoginy, trying to steal the IP to sell to other studios (???), lying about the whole money fiasco, etc. I'd need some time to think on it but right now imo realistically the only thing that you could kinda see as being true was them not fullfilling their roles for the final cut, which honestly I find easy to believe seeing as how the entire development of DE was always depicted as a burnout highway. Maybe some mistreatment too, Robert seems like the kind of lead that wouldn't hold back on his words towards other's work.
Seriously, how the fuck is there no paperwork to point out that Kurvitz and company are lying? I can believe them not having any paperwork, they're writers and artists, but how the fuck does that go by the bussinessmen that are juggling millions of euros around?

Absolutely this.

I think that there are some key takeaway things here:
1) Kurvitz and co were catastrophically bad leaders that were lucky to have a competent team around them that delivered not because, but in spite of their leadership.
2) Some VERY shady businessmen did some VERY shady business things around the whole project, which ultimately caused them to fire Kurvitz & co, using made-up nonsense - because those businessmen at that time most likely didn't even know most of the things that have now come to light which would actually have justified letting them go.
3) It would be better for a potential sequel if Kurvitz at least was allowed to keep writing on the world and the project, but should no longer have responsibility over other people. Of course, given all the likely bad blood by now (and Kurvitz' apparent inability or unwillingness to deal with being a terrible leader), that's almost certainly not going to happen.

I'm really curious about how it'll all turn out.
As we now know, there have been very good reasons to let them go, but those were not the reasons used when it actually happened.

Wow, what a mess.

That relationship stuff is honestly just irrelevant drama. Cherry on top, maybe.

 

[Infinitron]

felipepepe weighs in:

 

[Camel]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

 

[Maxie]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

yknow man i saw some middle schoolers with impressive boobs walking around but my first instinct wasnt to make them dependent on a ridiculous little clique like acshual real gommunists (none of them working class of course, working class people don't have the time or reason to read pinko books) and groom them into sex slavery

 

[Alienman]

2 dramas in one week. Unfortunately one have petered out a bit, but this one got much more potential.

 

[Longes]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

It's okay when it's funny and the target is a guy we hate.

 

[Tacgnol]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

Adults are fine, though I'm a bit squicked by the potential that Kurvitz may have been grooming her (or worse) since she was 14 (Someone said she joined the "collective" in 2009 earlier in the thread?).

We've literally got a very similar scandal going on in the UK atm where a famous 50/60-something TV presenter took an interest in a 15-year-old and helped get him into a TV crew career, but then started a sexual affair as soon as the individual hit legal age. Nothing illegal has occurred but it's still very sketchy and weird.

 

[Roguey]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

One consenting adult and one consenting teenager (by Estonian law).

 

[Maxie]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

We've literally got a very similar scandal going on in the UK atm where a famous 50/60-something TV presenter took an interest in a 15-year-old and helped get him into a TV crew career, but then started a sexual affair as soon as the individual hit legal age. Nothing illegal has occurred but it's still very sketchy and weird.

you and i know they was fucking before any legal age and just that nobody has mentioned it publicly

 

[Maxie]

remember a few years back when Prime Cunta was visiting zaum hq due to his ongoing obsession with heckin wholesome communisterinos and declared here that he had a 'crush' on helen hindpere
dude that was like six years ago or something what's with all the pedophiles lol

 

[Dadd]

Really cool thread and interesting and intelligent discussion but why is this in General RPG Discussion?

 

[Tacgnol]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

We've literally got a very similar scandal going on in the UK atm where a famous 50/60-something TV presenter took an interest in a 15-year-old and helped get him into a TV crew career, but then started a sexual affair as soon as the individual hit legal age. Nothing illegal has occurred but it's still very sketchy and weird.

you and i know they was fucking before any legal age and just that nobody has mentioned it publicly

Yeah, I'm giving an optimistic, benefit-of-the-doubt reading, but you are very likely correct.

 

[mondblut]

It's a dumbass pampered girl without a father figure who got onto the champagne communist train 'book club' and was groomed by a social reject twice her age

U jelly?

 

[mondblut]

yknow man i saw some middle schoolers with impressive boobs walking around but my first instinct wasnt to make them dependent on a ridiculous little clique like acshual real gommunists (none of them working class of course, working class people don't have the time or reason to read pinko books) and groom them into sex slavery

I suggest you to try, it is fun.

 

[ItsChon]

I categorically disagree with the idea that if an older person starts to date someone younger than them, who they have had prior history with, it automatically qualifies as grooming. Don't get me wrong, this is usually what occurs, but I have also seen situations where this isn't the case.

At the risk of getting strawmanned/painted as something I'm not, I will reference a situation in my own life to illustrate the nuanced nature of these kidns of situations. Growing up, there was a girl (who I still know to this day), who was in my church youth group. There was around a five year age difference between us, so when I was around sixteen/seventeen she was eleven/twelve. The entire youth group was friendly and we did speak a few times, but obviously I had no interest in hanging out with a young girl, and I spent all my time with the older members of the youth group. That being said, even at her young age, I could tell that she was "cute" and would grow up to be an attractive young woman. Fast forward to now where she is eighteen and I am twenty three, and we've seen each other several times and always greeted each other warmly, and she is indeed an attractive young woman.

I am currently in a relationship, and even if that wasn't the case, there are clear differences in maturity and life experience between myself and her, all of which make the hypothetical idea of us dating to be ridiculous/completely unappealing. That being said, let's assume neither of those things were an issue, I'm sure many people would argue that the fact I knew her when she was prepubescent while I was a teenager should be enough to make the idea of dating her absolutely revolting. The issue is that when I consider that idea, I'd be lying if I said it is revolting/off putting. I'll reiterate, the idea of dating the girl is revolting/off putting, but it's fore the aforementioned reasons, and if I was to imagine a hypothetical situation where I knew a girl that doesn't exist where we were the perfect match but there was an age gap and I had know her growing up, it simply wouldn't bother me. If this sounds wrong/disgusting I'd love for someone to explain why.

Now obviously the situation between Kurvitz and Helen is completely different since they did interact constantly, and the difference in age between Helen and Kurvitz is ten years versus the comparatively small in my own situation, and with these things considered it is very likely there was grooming that occurred. But that begs another interesting question, is it possible for an older person and a younger person to interact with no grooming behavior occurring, but for them to fall into love/attraction later on down the line? I'd say yes, and these situations have definitely occurred in the past.

I just want to inject some nuance into this discussion because this is something that is constantly talked about in Kwan and I think the way it is thought of popularly is ridiculous. At the end of the day, it's two consenting adults, and it isn't anyone's business.

 

[Dadd]

Subliminal grooming

 

[Maxie]

I categorically disagree with the idea that if an older person starts to date someone younger than them, who they have had prior history with, it automatically qualifies as grooming. Don't get me wrong, this is usually what occurs, but I have also seen situations where this isn't the case.

At the risk of getting strawmanned/painted as something I'm not, I will reference a situation in my own life to illustrate the nuanced nature of these kidns of situations. Growing up, there was a girl (who I still know to this day), who was in my church youth group. There was around a five year age difference between us, so when I was around sixteen/seventeen she was eleven/twelve. The entire youth group was friendly and we did speak a few times, but obviously I had no interest in hanging out with a young girl, and I spent all my time with the older members of the youth group. That being said, even at her young age, I could tell that she was "cute" and would grow up to be an attractive young woman. Fast forward to now where she is eighteen and I am twenty three, and we've seen each other several times and always greeted each other warmly, and she is indeed an attractive young woman.

I am currently in a relationship, and even if that wasn't the case, there are clear differences in maturity and life experience between myself and her, all of which make the hypothetical idea of us dating to be ridiculous/completely unappealing. That being said, let's assume neither of those things were an issue, I'm sure many people would argue that the fact I knew her when she was prepubescent while I was a teenager should be enough to make the idea of dating her absolutely revolting. The issue is that when I consider that idea, I'd be lying if I said it is revolting/off putting. I'll reiterate, the idea of dating the girl is revolting/off putting, but it's fore the aforementioned reasons, and if I was to imagine a hypothetical situation where I knew a girl that doesn't exist where we were the perfect match but there was an age gap and I had know her growing up, it simply wouldn't bother me. If this sounds wrong/disgusting I'd love for someone to explain why.

Now obviously the situation between Kurvitz and Helen is completely different since they did interact constantly, and the difference in age between Helen and Kurvitz is ten years versus the comparatively small in my own situation, and with these things considered it is very likely there was grooming that occurred. But that begs another interesting question, is it possible for an older person and a younger person to interact with no grooming behavior occurring, but for them to fall into love/attraction later on down the line? I'd say yes, and these situations have definitely occurred in the past.

I just want to inject some nuance into this discussion because this is something that is constantly talked about in Kwan and I think the way it is thought of popularly is ridiculous. At the end of the day, it's two consenting adults, and it isn't anyone's business.

pedo

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Also, yes, Helen Hindpere is Kurvitz's girlfriend. I've known that for a couple of years but it's been a strangely well-kept secret.

Around the 10 minute mark the video says she was 14 when she joined ZA/UM.

The age of consent in Estonia is 16, as specified by Section 145 of the Criminal Code of Republic of Estonia

Groomer! Groomer! Groomer! We've got a groomer heah!

Before 2021 the age of consent in Estonia was 14. So, technically Kurvitz didn't break the law.

this is such an AkShually! meme
dudes a freak in every other way as a person and your defending whether or not he broke laws trying to fuck a 14 year old?
Yeah his upstanding character leads me to think the... fucking worst of the cunt.

I am not defending him. That's why I've stressed "technically". Yes. In Estonia, the age of consent was 14. But this is purely a legal point. But as it is, the vast majority of people here would treat a 25-year-old guy fucking a 14-year-old girl with obvious disgust.

 

[ItsChon]

How do we know they started dating at that age? What if they didn't start dating until she was 20 and he was 30?

 

[Roguey]

remember a few years back when Prime Cunta was visiting zaum hq due to his ongoing obsession with heckin wholesome communisterinos and declared here that he had a 'crush' on helen hindpere
dude that was like six years ago or something what's with all the pedophiles lol

Hey now, six years ago she would have been 22, that's fine.

Though Junta did post pictures of himself and his wife on his blog and it's my vague recollection that his wife did look a bit younger than he is (but not by too much). These pictures are gone now of course, he cleaned up his internet presence when he became a ZA/UMer

 

[ItsChon]

remember a few years back when Prime Cunta was visiting zaum hq due to his ongoing obsession with heckin wholesome communisterinos and declared here that he had a 'crush' on helen hindpere
dude that was like six years ago or something what's with all the pedophiles lol

Hey now, six years ago she would have been 22, that's fine.

Though Junta did post pictures of himself and his wife on his blog and it's my vague recollection that his wife did look a bit younger than he is (but not by too much). These pictures are gone now of course, he cleaned up his internet presence when he became a ZA/UMer

Was his wife cute? Junta is a good looking fellow, now I'm wondering what kind of game hes got.

 

[Infinitron]

remember a few years back when Prime Cunta was visiting zaum hq due to his ongoing obsession with heckin wholesome communisterinos and declared here that he had a 'crush' on helen hindpere
dude that was like six years ago or something what's with all the pedophiles lol

This is what he actually said, for the record: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...ow-isometric-rpg.130284/page-146#post-6454291

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

felipepepe weighs in:

Actually, I agree with Felipe.

The fact that one side is disgusting narcissistic assholes and possibly pedophiles in no way excuses or cancels mafia-corporate machinations on the other side. They should have made two separate movies.

 

[Roguey]

Was his wife cute? Junta is a good looking fellow, now I'm wondering what kind of game hes got.

She was all right, not ugly, not a head-turner. I think she was Asian? Apparently not Asian.

 

[Maxie]

Was his wife cute? Junta is a good looking fellow, now I'm wondering what kind of game hes got.

She was all right, not ugly, not a head-turner. I think she was Asian? Apparently not Asian.

his wife is lebanese and vegetarian and unironically met with slavoj żiżek