Disco Elysium creative lead Robert Kurvitz was quietly fired from ZA/UM in late 2021, files lawsuit against them

[gurugeorge]

Anarchists create huge mess. News at Ten.

 

[ItsChon]

On the topic of the documentary itself, I finished watching it and it's clear that some fuckery was going on to oust the duo from their rightful positions. Whether or not they contributed a lot to the game, were good bosses, etc, are irrelevant to the actual issue of them getting snaked out of their company.

I sympathize with Kurvitz's ridiculous autism as well as the trio's long hiatus. It might have been fucked up, but I know full well how hard burnout can hit you, especially after dumping your heart and soul into something for years. Judging by the timeline, the inner circle had finally gotten over their issues and right when they were starting to try to get back into the swing of things and kick start development onto the sequel, they were fired for being a general nuisance with all their inquires and demands (some of which were probably fine/justified while others were likely ridiculous/retarded).

I hope this can be rectified at the end of the day.

 

[Roguey]

Checking out for two years is ridiculous. Guy should have taken his two month vacation immediately after shipping and then gone right back to work.

 

[ItsChon]

Checking out for two years is ridiculous. Guy should have taken his two month vacation immediately after shipping and then gone right back to work.

Two years is excessive, but still. These guys were putting in sixty hour work weeks for five years, and the last few months of the game were even worse. After each wrestling season I would go on a four-five month funk where I basically slacked off on everything because of how burned out I was. The amount of effort it took to run ten miles every day, starve myself to make weight, constantly practice, constantly worry about getting better and preforming, etc, etc, it just takes something out of you. When I imagine doing that for years? Ooof.

 

[hivemind]

Checking out for two years is ridiculous. Guy should have taken his two month vacation immediately after shipping and then gone right back to work.

Nooooooo, that's irrelevant to the REAL STORY, noooooo how DARE YOU BRING THAT UP, my heckin communist pedophile on chinese payroll can do no wrong

 

[Alienman]

We've literally got a very similar scandal going on in the UK atm where a famous 50/60-something TV presenter took an interest in a 15-year-old and helped get him into a TV crew career, but then started a sexual affair as soon as the individual hit legal age. Nothing illegal has occurred but it's still very sketchy and weird.

Morning show guy with white hair?

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Communists: not even once

 

[Maxie]

storyfag non-game developers FUCK CHILDREN. do storyfag players also FUCK CHILDREN?
I don't know, but I'm able to make an educated guess....

 

[Roguey]

Checking out for two years is ridiculous. Guy should have taken his two month vacation immediately after shipping and then gone right back to work.

Two years is excessive, but still. These guys were putting in sixty hour work weeks for five years, and the last few months of the game were even worse. After each wrestling season I would go on a four-five month funk where I basically slacked off on everything because of how burned out I was. The amount of effort it took to run ten miles every day, starve myself to make weight, constantly practice, constantly worry about getting better and preforming, etc, etc, it just takes something out of you. When I imagine doing that for years? Ooof.

Two months is generous by US standards where people typically get two weeks at most and those days don't roll over to the next year (I got screwed by this because I didn't like the idea of asking for time off)

 

[gurugeorge]

If Kurvitz was such a shitty boss, the team should have gotten on very well and been very productive in the time he was burnt out and absent.

So what great leaps and bounds did they make in that time?

 

[ItsChon]

Checking out for two years is ridiculous. Guy should have taken his two month vacation immediately after shipping and then gone right back to work.

Two years is excessive, but still. These guys were putting in sixty hour work weeks for five years, and the last few months of the game were even worse. After each wrestling season I would go on a four-five month funk where I basically slacked off on everything because of how burned out I was. The amount of effort it took to run ten miles every day, starve myself to make weight, constantly practice, constantly worry about getting better and preforming, etc, etc, it just takes something out of you. When I imagine doing that for years? Ooof.

Two months is generous by US standards where people typically get two weeks at most and those days don't roll over to the next year (I got screwed by this because I didn't like the idea of asking for time off)

Don't compare a traditional work environment to the situation at ZA/UM. I agree that two years is way too much, but most people way say even a year or half a year is too much. A year off at the most would have been acceptable in my eyes and they definitely overdid it. That being said, the other stockholder should have opened their mouths far sooner to handle this issue. Instead they wait for them to finally rejoin the office and right as they're about to start putting in work into the sequel, they fire them. Very weird and counterintuitive.

 

[scytheavatar]

felipepepe weighs in:

Actually, I agree with Felipe.

The fact that one side is disgusting narcissistic assholes and possibly pedophiles in no way excuses or cancels mafia-corporate machinations on the other side. They should have made two separate movies.

it might not be bad to steal from a communist, since the entire philosophy is based around stealing money and redistributing it. Thieves have no rights to complain about getting what they dish out.

Ultimately everyone should be celebrating people like Kurvitz being bullied out of the industry, cause he is the last person you want to be a leader. And no good would have come to ZA/UM had they struck to him.

 

[hivemind]

Two years is excessive, but still. These guys were putting in sixty hour work weeks for five years,

Real men do that all the time to put food on the table for their families, for their wives and children. This guy collapsed after 5 years of doing it because during that time his child-wife grew up and he lost his true purpose in life(molestation).


It is really an absurd situation, a self proclaimed communist who for the last 20+ years has been a glorified cult leader for a group of well meaning but naive leftist children creatives(the most spiritually rape-able type of person) reveals himself to be complete dickhead longing for the superstar lifestyle of permanent vacation when he gets the first taste of success in life granted to him by the evil capitalists he so despises thanks to their(by all accounts crucial) management of his dream project(that's not even talking about the funding).

 

[Maxie]

Two years is excessive, but still. These guys were putting in sixty hour work weeks for five years,

Real men do that all the time to put food on the table for their families, for their wives and children. This guy collapsed after 5 years of doing it because during that time his child-wife grew up and he lost his true purpose in life(molestation).


It is really an absurd situation, a self proclaimed communist who for the last 20+ years has been a glorified cult leader for a group of well meaning but naive leftist children creatives(the most spiritually rape-able type of person) reveals himself to be complete dickhead longing for the superstar lifestyle of permanent vacation when he gets the first taste of success in life granted to him by the evil capitalists he so despises thanks to their(by all accounts crucial) management of his dream project(that's not even talking about the funding).

Kurwitz interviewed back in Estonia: That Lenin bust on my desk. Heh. That's just how I've been raised
Kurwitz after No Truce with the Furries made money: *buying plane tickets to the birthplace of capitalism*

 

[Roguey]

If Kurvitz was such a shitty boss, the team should have gotten on very well and been very productive in the time he was burnt out and absent.

So what great leaps and bounds did they make in that time?

They made Final Cut (with little input from the credited lead).

This was also the Covid era where productivity dropped across the board. Though in Robert's case, the productivity apparently dropped to 0.

 

[Axioms]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

Adults are fine, though I'm a bit squicked by the potential that Kurvitz may have been grooming her (or worse) since she was 14 (Someone said she joined the "collective" in 2009 earlier in the thread?).

We've literally got a very similar scandal going on in the UK atm where a famous 50/60-something TV presenter took an interest in a 15-year-old and helped get him into a TV crew career, but then started a sexual affair as soon as the individual hit legal age. Nothing illegal has occurred but it's still very sketchy and weird.

You know that some loser in a communist cultural association in a relationship with a 10 year age gap and that situation in the UK are not at all similar right? Maybe Kurvitz got involved with her right when she joined or maybe not, which would be pretty pathetic/gross on his part, but famous wealthy British TV guy who is 40 years older than a kid he groomed and 24 year old loser who dropped out of high school and makes controversial RPGs is not at all comparable.

 

[Infinitron]

Tread carefully, every argument being made here about Robert Kurvitz being a burnt out primadonna could probably also be applied to Chris Avellone circa 2015.

Don't compare a traditional work environment to the situation at ZA/UM. I agree that two years is way too much, but most people way say even a year or half a year is too much. A year off at the most would have been acceptable in my eyes and they definitely overdid it. That being said, the other stockholder should have opened their mouths far sooner to handle this issue. Instead they wait for them to finally rejoin the office and right as they're about to start putting in work into the sequel, they fire them. Very weird and counterintuitive.

The trick is to find a way to still be useful enough while you're on your break. Eg, Josh Sawyer has arguably been "on a break" since Deadfire released in 2018.

Actually Kurvitz claims he did this in the documentary, but I guess his coworkers weren't convinced...

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

You know how in old school TTRPGs it was common place to bring a ten foot pole to check for traps. Therefore if you didn't and then fell for a trap. It was your fault so stop moaning. As someone who has dealt with investors in game dev before I can say the most basic of things you must do before accepting investor money of any kind for any reason is READ YOUR FUCKING CONTRACT.

Don't have one? Make one. No the investor's word is not good enough. The "look in the eye and firm handshake" isn't good enough either. CONTRACTS you woke communist pond scum. Don't give me that "No ethical consumption under capitalism." no matter how devout you claim to be you still live in a capitalist system. People don't just decide to live in your system because you shouted loud enough. Get a contract, if they don't like it negotiate, any weird and dodgy things about the deal will come out if you force negotiation and you can make an informed decision from that. If you don't like the negotiations, do not accept the investor money. End of. Dodgy investors are the number 1 ruiner of any business. Any responsible business owner makes sure they are safe before accepting money. It's not a gift horse. It's a bear trap spray painted gold.

When you accept investor money you are accepting the investor having a portion of ownership of your business. So many game devs don't understand beyond "money man gives me money to make game" and then are shocked that the guy who owns a percentage of your company is using that percentage to get what he wants. If you don't like that don't accept investor money and find some other way to fund your game. But you can't. So understand the deal with the devil you are making before you make it.

 

[Maxie]

Tread carefully, every argument being made here about Robert Kurvitz being a burnt out primadonna could probably also be applied to Chris Avellone circa 2015.

Don't compare a traditional work environment to the situation at ZA/UM. I agree that two years is way too much, but most people way say even a year or half a year is too much. A year off at the most would have been acceptable in my eyes and they definitely overdid it. That being said, the other stockholder should have opened their mouths far sooner to handle this issue. Instead they wait for them to finally rejoin the office and right as they're about to start putting in work into the sequel, they fire them. Very weird and counterintuitive.

The trick is to find a way to still be useful enough while you're on your break. Eg, Josh Sawyer has arguably been "on a break" since Deadfire released in 2018.

Actually Kurvitz claims he did this in the documentary, but I guess his coworkers weren't convinced...

well avellone is a proven sex fiend given that he was never apologized to

 

[NwNgger]

You know how in old school TTRPGs it was common place to bring a ten foot pole to check for traps. Therefore if you didn't and then fell for a trap. It was your fault so stop moaning. As someone who has dealt with investors in game dev before I can say the most basic of things you must do before accepting investor money of any kind for any reason is READ YOUR FUCKING CONTRACT.

Don't have one? Make one. No the investor's word is not good enough. The "look in the eye and firm handshake" isn't good enough either. CONTRACTS you woke communist pond scum. Don't give me that "No ethical consumption under capitalism." no matter how devout you claim to be you still live in a capitalist system. People don't just decide to live in your system because you shouted loud enough. Get a contract, if they don't like it negotiate, any weird and dodgy things about the deal will come out if you force negotiation and you can make an informed decision from that. If you don't like the negotiations, do not accept the investor money. End of. Dodgy investors are the number 1 ruiner of any business. Any responsible business owner makes sure they are safe before accepting money. It's not a gift horse. It's a bear trap spray painted gold.

When you accept investor money you are accepting the investor having a portion of ownership of your business. So many game devs don't understand beyond "money man gives me money to make game" and then are shocked that the guy who owns a percentage of your company is using that percentage to get what he wants. If you don't like that don't accept investor money and find some other way to fund your game. But you can't. So understand the deal with the devil you are making before you make it.

I don't exist in the same world you do but as a responsible adult I do understand why you should critically analyze any deal you make. Including looking into who you're making it with. I can also understand why a spoilt communist with clear personality disorders could not understand this.

 

[Tacgnol]

Dating a hot young woman is a proud tradition that's been going on since the dawn of time, and pretty much the main reason to become successful.

He would have been in his 20s and she would have been 14 when that collective started. That's not "hot young woman" territory, that's fucked up territory.

 

[Tyrr]

The Codexers: Goddamn SJWs ruin everything with puritanism and moral panic.
Also Codexers: Nooooo. Two consenting adults can’t have a relationship, it’s literally grooming.

There are a lot of things I'm ok with happening in media, I'm not ok with happening in real life.

 

[Axioms]

Dating a hot young woman is a proud tradition that's been going on since the dawn of time, and pretty much the main reason to become successful.

He would have been in his 20s and she would have been 14 when that collective started. That's not "hot young woman" territory, that's fucked up territory.

Assuming he started dating her at 14-16 that's absolutely not okay. Even if it was legal. It gets foggier if they knew each other but didn't get together until she was 20 or something.

 

[Roguey]

Tread carefully, every argument being made here about Robert Kurvitz being a burnt out primadonna could probably also be applied to Chris Avellone circa 2015.

Chris may have been uncooperative and refused to lead, but he worked like a machine, writing way too much for Durance and Grieving Mother and then continued writing like a machine after he left Obsidian. He never stopped writing until he was forced to stop.

The trick is to find a way to still be useful enough while you're on your break. Eg, Josh Sawyer has arguably been "on a break" since Deadfire released in 2018.

Actually Kurvitz claims he did this in the documentary, but I guess his coworkers weren't convinced...

Sawyer's break involved him working on the Pillars of Eternity tabletop (at Feargus's request) and working on and releasing Pentiment, which has gone on to become a critical and Steam user score hit. From the outside, Kurvitz has done nothing of comparable value.

 

[Maxie]

Tread carefully, every argument being made here about Robert Kurvitz being a burnt out primadonna could probably also be applied to Chris Avellone circa 2015.

Chris may have been uncooperative and refused to lead, but he worked like a machine, writing way too much for Durance and Grieving Mother and then continued writing like a machine after he left Obsidian. He never stopped writing until he was forced to stop.

The trick is to find a way to still be useful enough while you're on your break. Eg, Josh Sawyer has arguably been "on a break" since Deadfire released in 2018.

Actually Kurvitz claims he did this in the documentary, but I guess his coworkers weren't convinced...

Sawyer's break involved him working on the Pillars of Eternity tabletop (at Feargus's request) and working on and releasing Pentiment, which has gone on to become a critical and Steam user score hit. From the outside, Kurvitz has done nothing of comparable value.

Kurvitz was busy joining Dybowski's club of storyfag devs fucking little children