Disco Elysium Pre-Release Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[barghwata]

If you can take actions to adjust your odds, so that the rng seed you're rolling from is smaller, then what's the problem? Rng isn't just your character's odds of success, also factored are usually the opponent's skill, unless you're taking an action on an object. Then I suppose your roll is closer to a raw chance, but even there your roll is adapted by your skill. Even though they may succeed in a roll way more often than fail, people tend to remember failures more than successful throws.

Agreed, as i said i have no issue with RNG as long as it allows a margin to the player for mitigating and managing the risks associated with it, however there are abominations like Fallout 3 for example where speech checks are literally controlled by a percentage, and there is no attempt to implement or even explain the factors and modifiers that made you fail the speech check which i don't approve of, but obviously disco elysium will be better then this i am certain.

 

[Prime Junta]

i see, if there are modifiers outside of just how much persuation you have then that's pretty good.

It can get quite elaborate. F.ex. you might be interviewing two people, one of whom probably knows something but isn’t giving it up, and notice that one of them has some kind of hold on the other. If you then find a line of attack on the other one and get them to crack, you’ll find that the odds on the critical check on the other one suddenly jumped.

 

[barghwata]

If not eliminate them at the very least lessen their impact on the game as much as possible by trying to implement what you can of those unpredictabls.

Why social skills? What is it about trying to change someone's political opinion (for example), that makes it much more predictable and controlled than something like climbing a wall? Is wall climbing impossible to model? Why is a dice roll OK for wall climbing or lockpicking, but not for something super intangible like making someone trust you? Honestly I'd say it's the other way around.

Speech is just the one example i brought up there are others, like science skills for example which are based on hard knowledge, and the reason i brought it up is because it is much easier to try to make it a little more deterministic then other skills since it doesn't require you to as you said "make a simulation of the real physical universe".

Lets say you have a medical examiner examining a dead body. Depending on how tired he is, depending on the specifics of his knowledge he might overlook certain things. There've been reports of people declared dead by natural causes, who had knives sticking in them. Reality is far less predicatable than you want it to be

It's only unpredictable when you don't know the factors that caused it, and you gave an example of those factors "Depending on how tired he is" which can be represented with fatigue for example, i am just annoyed that some devs don't take any steps to even attempt to represent those factors and modifiers is all i'm saying.
My issue isn't with dice rolls necessarily, only with dice rolls that are completely abstract and that don't factor in anything else to them.

 

[Zombra]

Agreed, as i said i have no issue with RNG as long as it allows a margin to the player for mitigating and managing the risks associated with it

Like, for example, using appropriate equipment, having the proper information, or saying the right thing at the right time?

 

[barghwata]

Agreed, as i said i have no issue with RNG as long as it allows a margin to the player for mitigating and managing the risks associated with it

Like, for example, using appropriate equipment, having the proper information, or saying the right thing at the right time?

Yes, amongst other factors and when it comes to persuation in particular i think you can go many steps furthur, like taking in account the character traits and/or individual stats of the person you're speaking to, the reputation that you have with said person, how tired or fatigued your character is which can lower concetration and even the way you look or you're dressed that can have an impact on the first impression you give, which was implemented in arcanum for example.

 

[Prime Junta]

Another thing: just about every skill is a persuasion skill. Sometimes you need a piece of information (Encyclopedia), at other times a convincing argument (Rhetoric) or believable lie (Drama). On another occasion a punch to the gut will do the trick (Physical Instrument) or a slick dodge (Savoir Faire.) Or maybe your sidekick will step in and save the day (Esprit de Corps.)

So it is the complete opposite of “max Persuasion and coast through the game.”

 

[barghwata]

Another thing: just about every skill is a persuasion skill. Sometimes you need a piece of information (Encyclopedia), at other times a convincing argument (Rhetoric) or believable lie (Drama). On another occasion a punch to the gut will do the trick (Physical Instrument) or a slick dodge (Savoir Faire.) Or maybe your sidekick will step in and save the day (Esprit de Corps.)

So it is the complete opposite of “max Persuasion and coast through the game.”

That sounds like incline to me.

 

[Grauken]

If not eliminate them at the very least lessen their impact on the game as much as possible by trying to implement what you can of those unpredictabls.

Why social skills? What is it about trying to change someone's political opinion (for example), that makes it much more predictable and controlled than something like climbing a wall? Is wall climbing impossible to model? Why is a dice roll OK for wall climbing or lockpicking, but not for something super intangible like making someone trust you? Honestly I'd say it's the other way around.

Speech is just the one example i brought up there are others, like science skills for example which are based on hard knowledge, and the reason i brought it up is because it is much easier to try to make it a little more deterministic then other skills since it doesn't require you to as you said "make a simulation of the real physical universe".

Lets say you have a medical examiner examining a dead body. Depending on how tired he is, depending on the specifics of his knowledge he might overlook certain things. There've been reports of people declared dead by natural causes, who had knives sticking in them. Reality is far less predicatable than you want it to be

It's only unpredictable when you don't know the factors that caused it, and you gave an example of those factors "Depending on how tired he is" which can be represented with fatigue for example, i am just annoyed that some devs don't take any steps to even attempt to represent those factors and modifiers is all i'm saying.
My issue isn't with dice rolls necessarily, only with dice rolls that are completely abstract and that don't factor in anything else to them.

It's a trade-off between simulating reality and utility. If 60% of your checks include a factor like fatigue, then you build a game mechanic around fatigue, if its only 2% of all checks, then you roll it into a more abstract check. Same with super-specific knowledge. Too many skills and the system becomes cumbersome and not fun, even if it lacks the granularity and "realness" of more in-depth systems

 

[Terenty]

Another short vid.

Fuck, this looks straight up AAA, amazing art style

 

[Zombra]

Agreed, as i said i have no issue with RNG as long as it allows a margin to the player for mitigating and managing the risks associated with it

Like, for example, using appropriate equipment, having the proper information, or saying the right thing at the right time?

Yes, amongst other factors and when it comes to persuation in particular i think you can go many steps furthur, like taking in account the character traits and/or individual stats of the person you're speaking to, the reputation that you have with said person, how tired or fatigued your character is which can lower concetration and even the way you look or you're dressed that can have an impact on the first impression you give, which was implemented in arcanum for example.

So you think that proper equipment won't have an impact? Information won't matter? Which dialogue option you pick won't matter? Odd.

As for how you're dressed, we've already seen that clothing has an impact on skill type, and which skills you're using will clearly reflect what kind of impression you make. A high Savoir-Faire character will have some good options at the bar, and high Authority will be great dealing with cops. A nice scarf or a sharp uniform will reinforce this. This is already in the game.

As for NPC "traits", do you honestly think that a meathead thug will respond to a Rhetoric roll exactly the same way the guy at the political bookstore will? Seriously? This is already in the game.

You still haven't explained why they should not model stuff like visual distractions, errant smells that make you salivate, blinking etc.

Absolutely nothing you have suggested justifies the elimination of "random" factors.

 

[barghwata]

So you think that proper equipment won't have an impact? Information won't matter? Which dialogue option you pick won't matter? Odd.

when did i say that?

As for how you're dressed, we've already seen that clothing has an impact on skill type, and which skills you're using will clearly reflect what kind of impression you make. A high Savoir-Faire character will have some good options at the bar, and high Authority will be great dealing with cops. A nice scarf or a sharp uniform will reinforce this. This is already in the game.

As for "traits", do you honestly think that a meathead thug will respond to a Rhetoric roll exactly the same way the guy at the political bookstore will? Seriously? This is already in the game.

That's great once again when did i say the game doesn't have this, all i've been arguing for all along is that dice rolls are bad if they're not at least accompanied with a variety of other modifiers that represent the different factors that can influence the odds, this was an argument i was making in general not necessarily against Disco Elysium.

Absolutely nothing you have suggested justifies the elimination of "random" factors.

Go back up in the thread and read what i said.

My issue isn't with dice rolls necessarily, only with dice rolls that are completely abstract and that don't factor in anything else to them.

 

[Zombra]

That's great once again when did i say the game doesn't have this, all i've been arguing for all along is that dice rolls are bad if they're not at least accompanied with a variety of other modifiers that represent the different factors that can influence the odds, this was an argument i was making in general not necessarily against Disco Elysium.

Modifiers similar to what you suggest already exist in this game (for all skills).

If you're not talking about this game, please take this discussion to another thread. Topics exist for a reason.

 

[barghwata]

That's great once again when did i say the game doesn't have this, all i've been arguing for all along is that dice rolls are bad if they're not at least accompanied with a variety of other modifiers that represent the different factors that can influence the odds, this was an argument i was making in general not necessarily against Disco Elysium.

Modifiers similar to what you suggest already exist in this game. If you're not talking about this game, please take this discussion to another thread. Topics exist for a reason.

A discussion on RNG was brought up because of one guy that said the game has dice roll checks and that it's bad, some people responded by saying dice rolls are good and add realism to the game, so i responded by saying dice rolls aren't always good and can be implemented in the wrong and explained why some people might have reservations about dice rolls.

I don't see how this discussion is completely irrelevant to Disco Elysium.

 

[Zombra]

 

[Kasparov]

You guys should have a duel. A fight to the death scheduled for the night before launch. The survivor can then verify if they were right or wrong

 

[barghwata]

You guys should have a duel. A fight to the death scheduled for the night before launch. The survivor can then verify if they were right or wrong

except; it turned out we don't really have very different points of view.

 

[Kasparov]

You guys should have a duel. A fight to the death scheduled for the night before launch. The survivor can then verify if they were right or wrong

except; it turned out we don't really have very different points of view.

A dice roll might settle that

 

[Molina]

Another short vid.

Fuck, this looks straight up AAA, amazing art style

The music is cool.

 

[fantadomat]

You guys should have a duel. A fight to the death scheduled for the night before launch. The survivor can then verify if they were right or wrong

except; it turned out we don't really have very different points of view.

If i kill spirit them away both,will you take out the dies out of the game?

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

I'm wondering if skill check dialogues will always be the best way to respond to a situation or if the other options will also be valid.

 

[cb.spike]

Some motherfucker from Resetera is already posting about 10 hours he has in game and how they are the best RPG times of his life. So review copies are out?

 

[Infinitron]

Some motherfucker from Resetera is already posting about 10 hours he has in game and how they are the best RPG times of his life. So review copies are out?

Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/di...-15th-new-trailer.141758/page-4#post-24914546 (replying to Tuco Benedicto Pacifico)

It was. In fact I'd incredibly impressed if this one, with all its alleged good writing, will be half as good mechanically.

Get ready.

Like, sure, let's be realistic, I only have around 10 hours in the game. It could fall apart! But those 10 hours were the most arresting, enthralling hours I've had in any RPG. This is one of the best detective games, one of the best RPGs, one of the best video games in those ten hours, that I have ever played.

 

[Madawc]

On the other hand, someone from ZA/UM just said on discord that:

The preview-review keys haven't been sent out yet, just to be clear
We've been asked this several times within the last few days

 

[HoboForEternity]

On the other hand, someone from ZA/UM just said on discord that:

The preview-review keys haven't been sent out yet, just to be clear
We've been asked this several times within the last few days

Zep--

looks like ZA/UM have a mole problem

Zep--

 

[PrK]

Kasparov is there going to be any form of developer's commentary as an option by any chance? It is a cool feature that hasn't been done in such a non-linear game afaik (and would save the hassle of repeatedly expaining design and story decisions in forums and interviews as a bonus).