Disco Elysium spoilery thread

[Lithium Flower]

MRY 's posts in the other thread kind of provoked me to think of what would happen if the game had a time limit (say, 3-5 days at which point the tribunal happens and you are forced to witness it - you can even still throw in a reason to travel to the island afterwards, whereby you may or may not fail to arrest the Deserter depending on how successful you have been in the investigation) and the entirety of the map available from the start. Say it was redesigned such that instead of being able to do everything, you had to spend your time wisely - your Harry could investigate the abandoned business area and meet the dicemaker, discover the secret of the church and start a nightclub, get embroiled in Martinaise politics, find the missing husband, maybe even succeed at solving the investigation and bringing in the Deserter - but they couldn't do all those things.

I kind of feel like the game was designed like this at some point or another, otherwise it seems too strange that several skills and characters allude to there being a time limit when in reality the worst you can do is softlock yourself (which I also consider very inelegant as non-standard game overs go.) Also, I've read probably every post in the DE pre-release thread at some point and I feel like they were more open about this being a 20-30 hour highly replayable experience as opposed to a "60+ hours per average playthrough" kind of affair, but I could be misremembering.

While I love the game to bits, after some reflection, this might be the biggest lost opportunity in it. Having a global timer of sorts would give every time-consuming action additional meaning, which, had that been expanded to object interactions (like picking up trash and stealing every bottle of nosaphed and magnesium in sight), meant that nearly everything except leisurely strolling around clicking green orbs would count against the clock. As it stands now, the passage of time is just a way to add challenge to the first two days when you have to worry about making rent (absurdly, it kind of makes the first day far more difficult than the rest of it, although I guess RPGs are no strangers to difficulty fall-off, albeit for different reasons) and then gets relegated to being a cosmetic feature, important for immersion but not mechanically significant.

On the other hand, the game is a very cozy experience as is. Adding a time limit would certainly change this, so while I think the game could be more to my taste, I also rather like the way it is now.

 

[Tigranes]

I would have enjoyed that - but then, I also mostly approved of the Spirit Meter. I imagine that even if the time limit was fairly generous, many players would have gotten so much FOMO and anxiety and frustration over it that it would have been a major source of complaint - oh my god what if I can't do this, what if I run out of time.

Even in its current form, where it's easy to run out of stuff to do (and, e.g. sit on benches waiting for Comrade Kim), you had plenty of Codexers in their first run asking if they're going to run out of time. I don't blame them for asking, of course - but my point is if the answer was "yeah you have to pick and choose" then there would have been frustration, even if it turned out later that it wasn't that strict.

The brilliant move they did make was to make the clock only tick on dialogue, so you don't have to OCD about opitmising walking routes.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I would have enjoyed that - but then, I also mostly approved of the Spirit Meter. I imagine that even if the time limit was fairly generous, many players would have gotten so much FOMO and anxiety and frustration over it that it would have been a major source of complaint - oh my god what if I can't do this, what if I run out of time.

Even in its current form, where it's easy to run out of stuff to do (and, e.g. sit on benches waiting for Comrade Kim), you had plenty of Codexers in their first run asking if they're going to run out of time. I don't blame them for asking, of course - but my point is if the answer was "yeah you have to pick and choose" then there would have been frustration, even if it turned out later that it wasn't that strict.

The brilliant move they did make was to make the clock only tick on dialogue, so you don't have to OCD about opitmising walking routes.

Pathologic 2 have this kind of time limit. And fans hate it.

 

[Lithium Flower]

What? People who like Pathologic generally appreciate the time limit, considering the entire game relies on it.

Adding an actual time limit to Disco Elysium game won't make it a better or worse game, but it will make it appeal to a slightly different group of people. As it stands, as Tigraines pointed out, the game already telegraphs a time limit (pretty sure Shivers explicitly tells you the tribunal is going to happen in 5? days in a conversation with Joyce, no?) - thereby alienating the players who don't like time limits - without actually having one.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

What? People who like Pathologic generally appreciate the time limit, considering the entire game relies on it.

Backers are whining about they want to see al the content, mom, please

 

[Lithium Flower]

What? People who like Pathologic generally appreciate the time limit, considering the entire game relies on it.

Backers are whining about they want to see al the content, mom, please

backers =/= fans

That's neither here nor there, tho

 

[Prime Junta]

backers =/= fans

That's neither here nor there, tho

Fans love the spirit meter in MotB. Cretins rage about it. There are far more cretins.

 

[Lithium Flower]

Well, I wouldn't call anyone a cretin, but to clarify, my main problem with suggesting that "even the fans of pathologic hate time limits" is that's like saying "even the fans of hamburgers hate hamburger patties." I mean people can identify however they please but it just seems strange to label someone who dislikes a core part of the experience a fan.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Well, I wouldn't call anyone a cretin, but to clarify, my main problem with suggesting that "even the fans of pathologic hate time limits" is that's like saying "even the fans of hamburgers hate hamburger patties." I mean people can identify however they please but it just seems strange to label someone who dislikes a core part of the experience a fan.

haters = fans

Spoiler

what am i even talking about

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

The Pale is an "Extinction Entity" (™) , analogous to oxygen buildup in the atmosphere during the Great Oxidation Event. Just like bacteria using photosythesis and filling the atmosphere with free oxygen, the humans of Elysium are filling it up with their stray thoughts and memories. Once the "thought sinks" (the pale oceans where current life forms can not thrive) in the world are filled to the brim, The Pale will overflow and engulf the entire world, causing mass extinction to open up a place for new kind of life forms. And these advanced life forms (that synthisize the composition of the pale) will see the remaining humans as we see plants.

Oh and since the Great Oxidation event is also called Oxygen Holocaust, the Pale is also a Nazi.

I have my own theory, pay attention to a technology that denizens of disco using in their lifes, specificaly guns (revolver rifle and revolver with three barrels lol ), armor (I think such armor was in captain Nemo novel or Amphibian Man novel, I don't remember) and radio computers. It's a technology that was primarily illustrated by old science fiction or was just a concept in mind of some scientist. The Pale expanding, because technology progress and geographical exploration on Earth results in invention of stuff or debunking some myths, at some point world Disco will merge with Earth and memories of all denizens of Disco will be fried and replaced like they always lived on Earth. After some time, Disco will be replaced by other world filled with new fantasies and cycle will repeat.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

The Pale is an "Extinction Entity" (™) , analogous to oxygen buildup in the atmosphere during the Great Oxidation Event. Just like bacteria using photosythesis and filling the atmosphere with free oxygen, the humans of Elysium are filling it up with their stray thoughts and memories. Once the "thought sinks" (the pale oceans where current life forms can not thrive) in the world are filled to the brim, The Pale will overflow and engulf the entire world, causing mass extinction to open up a place for new kind of life forms. And these advanced life forms (that synthisize the composition of the pale) will see the remaining humans as we see plants.

Oh and since the Great Oxidation event is also called Oxygen Holocaust, the Pale is also a Nazi.

I have my own theory, pay attention to a technology that denizens of disco using in their lifes, specificaly guns (revolver rifle and revolver with three barrels lol ), armor (I think such armor was in captain Nemo novel or Amphibian Man novel, I don't remember) and radio computers. It's a technology that was primarily illustrated by old science fiction or was just a concept in mind of some scientist. The Pale expanding, because technology progress and geographical exploration on Earth results in invention of stuff or debunking some myths, at some point world Disco will merge with Earth and memories of all denizens of Disco will be fried and replaced like they always lived on Earth. After some time, Disco will be replaced by other world filled with new fantasies and cycle will repeat.

Interesting theory.
I'm kinda confused about the setting of Disco, islands, the pale, and stuff, even after all these conversations with ze milf on da boat. Where can I read something summarizing (not only about Revachol)? And no, I don't read Estonian.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Yeah nah to time limit. This is a game one should enjoy savouring in their own time. There's abundance of quality writing everywhere and it would be ruined by limited options. I prefer it the way it is, it's sort of insinuating and alluding to urgency by having the days pass in a dramatic manner, but not twisting your arm.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Interesting theory.
I'm kinda confused about the setting of Disco, islands, the pale, and stuff, even after all these conversations with ze milf on da boat. Where can I read something summarizing (not only about Revachol)? And no, I don't read Estonian.

To be honest I invented my theory, with basis on what I saw in game + quest with radio RPG helped much, because in some old ass magazine IRL was written article where author had a stroke imagined that in future people will be playing against each other by using radio connected chess boards. Kinda similar to what company in Doomed Commerical district was trying to pull off. And I don't know place where you can find complete information about pale and I don't think it's exist because it's kinda early for this kind of stuff.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

in future people will be playing against each other by using radio connected chess boards

I remembered my favourite scene from The Thing.

 

[Twiglard]

MRY 's posts in the other thread kind of provoked me to think of what would happen if the game had a time limit

I don't think that's the right way to add difficulty to this game. You'd effectively be skipping branches in the dialog tree to save time.

The game should've made pinning the blame on dear Iosif harder.

Interesting theory.
I'm kinda confused about the setting of Disco, islands, the pale, and stuff, even after all these conversations with ze milf on da boat. Where can I read something summarizing (not only about Revachol)? And no, I don't read Estonian.

Isolas, not islands. I'd go for 2 playthroughs, i.e. 5/3/1/3, then one with PHYS. You could probably go with one like 5/3/3/1 but suffer in some areas. Keep Inland Empire, Shivers, Encyclopedia at 6-7 as soon as possible since it's about passive checks.

- random information about the world in free-association form as Encyclopedia interjects all throughout the game
- history of the "international zone" with the statue, rene the peacock etc.
- some spots where Shivers talks about different areas in Revachol at length
- walk to the end of world map road southwest of the fishing village
- relay Evrart's bluff to Joyce for some pieces of lore on Insulinde and Moralism
- the church quest, hard logic check at the end
- debate Dolorianism with Noid
- dance like crazy once you've improved on the techno track twice
- the phasmid talks about the pale (!)
- quiz-book about Innocenses
- sometimes Inland Empire
- après le monde, gris
- après gris, le monde à nouveau

 

[hello friend]

I actually liked how easy it was to implicate Iosif. Attempts to subvert expectations are often tryhard, but here it was not the case. I was expecting a tense confrontation with a dangerous sniper - but there's just an old bum sitting by the fire. Alright, time to do some police work. Extract a confession. Let's roll up those sleeves.

"Yeah, no, I did it." He cant wait to tell you. The whole game you're trying to figure out what's going on with the mercs and the union, and turns out the whole thing was started by some completely unrelated random guy and after all that running around getting him on the record isn't even hard. Just a sad old man.

I thought that was great, and I'm very glad they did it the way they did.

 

[Prime Junta]

Just a sad old man

That's kind of a recurring theme here. Lots of sad old men around. You're kind of a sad old man. René and Gaston are sad old men. The cryptozoologist is a tragic, if not sad, old man. And yeah, Iosif is a sad old man.

No wonder I love the game so much, it's about me.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Just a sad old man

That's kind of a recurring theme here. Lots of sad old men around. You're kind of a sad old man. René and Gaston are sad old men. The cryptozoologist is a tragic, if not sad, old man. And yeah, Iosif is a sad old man.

No wonder I love the game so much, it's about me.

 

[JarlFrank]

Just a sad old man

That's kind of a recurring theme here. Lots of sad old men around. You're kind of a sad old man. René and Gaston are sad old men. The cryptozoologist is a tragic, if not sad, old man. And yeah, Iosif is a sad old man.

No wonder I love the game so much, it's about me.

I feel like a major theme of the game is broken dreams. Most characters you meet have or had some kind of dream, something to aspire to, but it either broke down (Rene and his monarchy, the old commie and his communism, the programmer woman whose game dev company went belly up) or they just were dealt a shit fate and have settled for what they have (the dicemaker woman who wanted to be a jeweller but her jewelry business failed, the drunk guy in the fishing village who once had a better life but failed due to his clumsiness - and now just settles for being a drunk bum, the fisherwoman whose husband died long ago and now she's settled for doing her work on her own as a widow and single mom).

There are also plenty of people who you just know won't succeed at the thing they're trying to do. The kids who want to turn the church into a rave club? Yeah, the idea is cool, but get real, kids. This church is damaged, broken, and at the ass end of the district. Nobody comes here. If it were on the other side of the river, sure, it could attract and audience, but who's going to walk through miles of mud and a bum-inhabited fishing village to get to a rave club? The bookseller's shop is going to fail in the long run because she doesn't actually like books, doesn't know how to properly talk to her customers, and blames her failures on a curse instead of asking herself if her approach to business might be to blame.

Then there's Klaasje, who used to have an exciting life as an industrial spy. But now she's on the run, going from place to place, switching identities wherever she goes, and the last guy she had a thing with was just killed. Everything she has just slips out of her hands again and again.

Broken dreams and shitty pasts are a major theme of the game. As is people holding on to these dreams and pasts, despite there being no realistic chance of ever getting any of it back. The commie shooter, Rene, the bookseller (clinging to a business she can't realistically sustain due to her incompetence as a businesswoman), and of course Harry and his apricot-scented one.

 

[Prime Junta]

who's going to walk through miles of mud and a bum-inhabited fishing village to get to a rave club

Back in the day I've walked through worse to get to a club. I used to go to Russia to party in the Yeltsin years, it was pretty cray-cray and lots of the happening places were really out of the way.

 

[AwesomeButton]

who's going to walk through miles of mud and a bum-inhabited fishing village to get to a rave club

Back in the day I've walked through worse to get to a club. I used to go to Russia to party in the Yeltsin years, it was pretty cray-cray and lots of the happening places were really out of the way.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I feel like a major theme of the game is broken dreams.

Also devs openly cited KRZ as a source of inspiration, and this godlike wonderful game have a recurring theme of Debt, which is quite similar.

I used to go to Russia to party in the Yeltsin years, it was pretty cray-cray and lots of the happening places were really out of the way.

I have a footage of you btw

 

[Prime Junta]

AwesomeButton can confirm, it was exactly like that

I have a footage of you btw

I was so young

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

the drunk guy in the fishing village who once had a better life but failed due to his clumsiness

if you about Doom spiral guy, he isn't "just clumsy", he is suffering from some kind internal brain damage that makes him forget majority of his life. I don't remember exact diagnosis revealed by skill check, but this serious illness, not clumsiness.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Go right before Ruby's room, to the left. Hold Tab. There's some object you can't get to. A room? Most probably developer's mistake.

I know. It can be seen from Ruby's room as well (by holding tab).