Dishonored by Arkane

[Morgoth]

Just made it into the Brigmore Manor (through the Crypt ). This is some seriously good level design and atmo there.

Arkane, the closest what we'll ever get to a modern LGS.

 

[Morgoth]

Interview with Colantonio:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/14/arkane-on-the-future-of-dishonored-stories-multiplayer/

RPS: Speaking of, we’re on the cusp of a “new” generation of hardware (except on PC, where things are always awesome all the time). How do you see the sort of game you make evolving? More scope? More depth per location? More sophisticated AI?

Colantonio: The next generation is mostly going to be all about memory. That’s gonna be the big difference for us, anyway. More memory means more entities, more density, more AI with more variations in their animations, bigger levels with less loading, etc. And also saving the state of things so that when you come back to an area, things are entirely [as they were]. Backtracking is actually embraced by the system as opposed to being a problem. It’s all good things for us.

But the values we hold will remain the same. It’s all about interactivity and choices, consequences to your choices, many ways to do things, exploration, verticality, and all kinds of player tools. The more kinds of tools we can give to the player in a very simulated environment, the better the experience is.

It’s all about players, not what the designer wants them to do. This is the base foundation of all our games from now on. The more power and memory we have, the more possibilities we can give to the player.

Yes. Jawohl. Qui.

 

[DalekFlay]

Thank Christ.

 

[sexbad?]

Interview with Colantonio:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/14/arkane-on-the-future-of-dishonored-stories-multiplayer/

Yes. Jawohl. Qui.

I am very excited.

In addressing the enemy density problem I mentioned previously, I think it's too easy at the start because it wants to be episodic. Releasing the same DLC in one part (under the proper but no longer popular title of "expansion pack") for $20 probably wouldn't be as lucrative, but it would have ensured that everyone playing the second half would have played the first half!! So Brigmore starts with all the powerups your Knife save file had, or presumably a fair amount of runes for people who didn't play Knife first, but it still begins with a more introductory feeling level for noobs. It would have done well to introduce the Witches earlier on, and to make the prison more carefully guarded, especially since you get the option to spend a little money and go in cloaked. However, if someone who hasn't played Knife before or the base game in a while decided to start with Brigmore, modern game design would require that they get actually introduced first.

That's really my only problem with the two expansions. They're like Dishonored: Extraction Point. They trim a lot of the fat, and they introduce tougher situations, better environments and overall more refined mechanics. Environment traversal and combat and chaos are so glorious, and I'm hoping the spirit that Arkane showed with them will fucking shine with more resources.

 

[retardation]

Who the fuck wastes time on this mediocre game? The only thing that would make Dishonored better is a level editor.

It is quite good.

Only the first and the last mission. I believe DLC's bring decent missions; however, horrible emo character design, shit writing, stupid story, shit Ai, too easy superhero gameplay... I mean, how long the list has to go on till gamers conclude it's a mediocre game after all? Arkane is a good studio, but Dishonored was nothing but a cautious probing of the market. It's nowhere near the quality it would have been 15 years ago.

 

[sexbad?]

Who the fuck wastes time on this mediocre game? The only thing that would make Dishonored better is a level editor.

It is quite good.

Only the first and the last mission. I believe DLC's bring decent missions; however, horrible emo character design, shit writing, stupid story, shit Ai, too easy superhero gameplay... I mean, how long the list has to go on till gamers conclude it's a mediocre game after all? Arkane is a good studio, but Dishonored was nothing but a cautious probing of the market. It's nowhere near the quality it would have been 15 years ago.

The missions are diverse and give plenty of interesting strongholds to infiltrate, and the better half of them have plenty of verticality to them. The AI is flawed in some ways but has a good field/distance of vision and knows how to hold up in a fight, especially the later enemies like Daud's gang. Combat is fast and brutal, and I love causing chaos, using all the different powers to toy with enemies and lead them to their deaths. It is best played in a manner similar to Crysis--as an adaptive, ability-driven action game--and while it doesn't reach the same level of greatness as Crysis, it's certainly a good attempt at something in the same vein.

 

[DalekFlay]

I've played through the main game twice at highest difficulty, once killing people and getting Bioshock with it sometimes, the other time as a complete no kills ghost. I enjoyed both for different reasons. Only the second one was really at all difficult, but fun and difficult are not the same thing sometimes.

 

[Crooked Bee]

If you're an atmospherewhore like me, Dishonored is well worth it for the atmosphere alone. Gameplay is mediocre, but the atmosphere is great. I can't really say much in defense of Dishonored except for that, so if you don't find the setting appealing I think you don't need to bother with the game at all.

Anyway, just bought the latest DLC, and really looking forward to playing it.

 

[DraQ]

If you're an atmospherewhore like me, Dishonored is well worth it for the atmosphere alone. Gameplay is mediocre, but the atmosphere is great. I can't really say much in defense of Dishonored except for that, so if you don't find the setting appealing I think you don't need to bother with the game at all.

Anyway, just bought the latest DLC, and really looking forward to playing it.

I would say Dishonored gameplay would have been excellent was it not for the one thing:

AI is dumber than bag of bricks.

Sure, blink could've been nerfed and made less essential, same with see through walls, casting from HP would have been excellent change, but those are just tweaks while AI's obliviousness made actual smart use of environment complete overkill.

 

[DalekFlay]

Yes, it's not blink alone that makes it easy, it is blink plus easy AI. They don't even look up at all, ever.

Still my 100% ghost playthrough had a lot of reloading in it. And for me personally the sneaking is fun whether it's easy or not. I had a lot of good times with the game and DLC, and look forward to another one.

 

[Morgoth]

Yes, it's not blink alone that makes it easy, it is blink plus easy AI. They don't even look up at all, ever.

If they'd routinely look up, it would defeat the whole purpose of the game, as it is. In order to give the player the feeling of being a sort of voyeur, an observer, a strategist, you sometimes have to artifically curtail the AI to make the fantasy work.

In Thief, they could offset the simplistic AI routines by curtailing Garret's movement and abilities itself, to create a situation where nobody really is overly more powerful than the opponent. In Dishonored, they chose to give Corvo a wider range of abilities, but alas, the enemies didn't quite get a similar "upgrade" to make you constantly sweat and think. That unfortunately, leaves Dishonored a rather easy and underwhelming game. Still better than most trash out there mind you, so I'm looking forward to how better hardware will translate into more challenging, versatile and creative gameplay.

In Dishonored 2 however, I expect blinking to a spot to create a sound depending on the surface property, to make you think twice before you spawn-blink through the whole game like fucking Superman.

 

[skacky]

The game crashes whenever I quickload in the third mission. Since I'm playing pacifist/ghost, this is extremely frustrating. Other than that it's really awesome. Also, the storyline has a huge, huge Thief vibe.

 

[Vibalist]

It’s all about players, not what the designer wants them to do.

This is so spot on. I always felt that Dishonored, for all its shortcomings, adhered perfectly to this philosophy. Don't just design an Approach A and Approach B. Let the player carve his own path through the level, and make the levels in such a way that they facilitate experimenting with them. I'm not saying Dishonored is anywhere close to Deus Ex, but it is honestly the first game I've played since then that comes close in terms of level design. Human Revolution suffered from small and ultimately limited levels, and while Dishonored's levels are not gigantic, you can feel the influence of DX in every one of them. They're simply a joy to explore and navigate because they always allow you to do things in exactly your own way, rather than simply making a choice in the beginning between the Combat Route and the Stealth Route and then sticking to that choice for the rest of the level/game (which is what I feel HR did).

I think Arkane may be the first developer in a long time to understand what good open level gameplay is truly about. I'm glad they're around.

 

[Vibalist]

AI is dumber than bag of bricks.

You guys really owe it to yourselves to try out the AI difficulty mod: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141188

I've been using it almost since I bought the game, and while it doesn't change anything drastically, it does bring a few improvements to the table, such as enemies being able to hear and see you from twice the distance, lean being nerfed and enemies being better at dodging and using items and weapons in combat. Oh, and I think they actually also look up on occasion.

The mod is only in alpha state, but I never experienced a single problem with it. If anything, I thought the AI was sometimes slightly too good at spotting you.

And oh yeah, bodies pile up now instead of just vanishing.

The game crashes whenever I quickload in the third mission. Since I'm playing pacifist/ghost, this is extremely frustrating. Other than that it's really awesome. Also, the storyline has a huge, huge Thief vibe.

I had this occur to me too. For me it only happened inside the manor itself, however, and even then it didn't always happen. Have you tried going back to a save made outside of the manor, or simply making a fuckload of saves inside of it and seeing if some of them still work? It's what I did anyways, and I got through it (though not without a few crashes).

Anyways, it seems Bethesda and Arkane are aware of the problem and are trying to fix it. Hopefully not long before we get a patch.

Agree with you about the Thief vibe, by the way. The Brigmore witches are pretty similar to those nature freaks from the Thief games, and Daud narrating those little intros before each level in Knife of Dunwall reminded me very much of Garret's own mission briefings. I wish they'd kept this in Brigmore Witches as well.

 

[sexbad?]

It’s all about players, not what the designer wants them to do.

This is so spot on. I always felt that Dishonored, for all its shortcomings, adhered perfectly to this philosophy. Don't just design an Approach A and Approach B. Let the player carve his own path through the level, and make the levels in such a way that they facilitate experimenting with them. I'm not saying Dishonored is anywhere close to Deus Ex, but it is honestly the first game I've played since then that comes close in terms of level design. Human Revolution suffered from small and ultimately limited levels, and while Dishonored's levels are not gigantic, you can feel the influence of DX in every one of them. They're simply a joy to explore and navigate because they always allow you to do things in exactly your own way, rather than simply making a choice in the beginning between the Combat Route and the Stealth Route and then sticking to that choice for the rest of the level/game (which is what I feel HR did).

I think Arkane may be the first developer in a long time to understand what good open level gameplay is truly about. I'm glad they're around.

I don't entirely agree with this, but you've got plenty of truth.

In the interview that @Morgoth linked to a few posts ago, the developer guy talked about how approaches lending themselves to more pacifism were added (at least compared to the whole development time) as sort of an afterthought. There are definitely parts of levels in the base game where super stealth is encouraged over any other playstyle and made easier than it should be imho. The original design philosophy that you're describing still shines through at plenty of times, but the developers did make compromises at some points and, I think, give some levels pretty narrow and generally obvious stealth routes that weren't so fitting.

Also, Brigmore does still have Daud's little intro cutscenes! You might have skipped them inadvertently.

 

[Vibalist]

Also, Brigmore does still have Daud's little intro cutscenes! You might have skipped them inadvertently.

They don't show up in my game (which is a shame, as I would've liked to see them on my first playthrough, not a subsequent one). I think it has something to do with the generally buggy state Brigmore was released in. The aforementioned savegame/crash issues in level three are there, half the images (such as bone charms, skill icons and such) are missing and now I find that the little intro movies haven't been playing as they should. I'm really, really hoping for that patch now, and soon. Releasing games (and especially a game as small as a DLC package) in a buggy state is so lazy.

 

[DalekFlay]

They don't show up in my game (which is a shame, as I would've liked to see them on my first playthrough, not a subsequent one). I think it has something to do with the generally buggy state Brigmore was released in. The aforementioned savegame/crash issues in level three are there, half the images (such as bone charms, skill icons and such) are missing and now I find that the little intro movies haven't been playing as they should. I'm really, really hoping for that patch now, and soon. Releasing games (and especially a game as small as a DLC package) in a buggy state is so lazy.

I haven't had any of these problems. So perhaps their testing hardware didn't either.

 

[Vibalist]

They don't show up in my game (which is a shame, as I would've liked to see them on my first playthrough, not a subsequent one). I think it has something to do with the generally buggy state Brigmore was released in. The aforementioned savegame/crash issues in level three are there, half the images (such as bone charms, skill icons and such) are missing and now I find that the little intro movies haven't been playing as they should. I'm really, really hoping for that patch now, and soon. Releasing games (and especially a game as small as a DLC package) in a buggy state is so lazy.

I haven't had any of these problems. So perhaps their testing hardware didn't either.

Perhaps not. Could be something wrong with my PC, though I wouldn't know what. Plenty of people complain about the corrupted savegames, so I assumed these other issues were universal as well. Maybe not.

Would anyone have an inkling of what to do about this?

 

[JarlFrank]

Maybe a faulty download/install? Try to reinstall it.

 

[DalekFlay]

Plenty of people complain about the corrupted savegames, so I assumed these other issues were universal as well. Maybe not.

Forum complaints never, ever mean a universal issue. PC gaming doesn't work like that.

 

[Vibalist]

Maybe a faulty download/install? Try to reinstall it.

Could be. But that would entail reinstalling the whole game, since I don't think you can just remove individual pieces of DLC when it's bought through Steam (since it autosyncs everything). Might be I'll just have to live with it, no biggie, really.

Plenty of people complain about the corrupted savegames, so I assumed these other issues were universal as well. Maybe not.

Forum complaints never, ever mean a universal issue. PC gaming doesn't work like that.

Well, a wide spread issue, then. If twenty people are all reporting the same issue on the Steam forums at the same time (the savegames not working in level three) then it must be because it's a bug and not just individual hardware problems, right?

 

[DalekFlay]

Well, a wide spread issue, then. If twenty people are all reporting the same issue on the Steam forums at the same time (the savegames not working in level three) then it must be because it's a bug and not just individual hardware problems, right?

I guess that depends on what you consider a bug. I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed, I was more saying instead of calling them lazy or whatever else people should usually try and realize not every issue happened in testing.

 

[Zed]

http://kotaku.com/leaked-e-mails-suggest-bethesda-misled-gamers-about-pre-1149092622

Do-not-want-to-visit-Kotaku-rundown:
Arkane Studios (Dishonored) is making Prey 2, and they're re-making it from scratch, calling it a spiritual successor to System Shock 2.
Meanwhile a studio in Lyon lead by Harvey Smith is working on Dishonored 2.

 

[Excidium]

That is fake

 

[DalekFlay]

Even if they are making it despite denying it just this week, who cares? They likely cannot say they are working on it yet due to management decisions, so let them work and wait for the game to be released to judge.

Though I do think it's odd that the gaming industry is so secretive, while movie studios are like "here's what we're thinking of making, what we're making and what we're changing" and don't give a shit.