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Divinity Divinity: Original Sin 2 Armor System Discussion

Shrimp

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Only in spirit
 

Gregz

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What WAS the armor system in DOS like? For those of us who haven't played it.
Each mob had extra 'armor'(essentially extra HP but only absorbs that type) of magical and physical. Some mobs only had magical or physical, most usually had both to some degree matching their role. For example, a heavily-armored knight-type enemy would probably have a large amount of physical armor and a small amount of magical armor.
Before you could apply status effects to an enemy or directly damage their HP, their armor of the type of damage/status it was(magic or physical) had to be drained. The game therefore favored a mixed party setup capable of dealing with both physical and magical-heavy armor enemies.
Codexers, being retards, threw a tantrum because they couldn't stack 4 of the same type of damage and steamroll the game by CC'ing everything 100% of the time like in DOS1(which was the reason for the armor change to begin with.)

I just found it to be an annoying mechanic, like slag in Borderlands 2.
 

Butter

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Sounds like a reasonable, if simplistic, mechanic. But if it was poorly tuned, it doesn't matter how good the mechanic is on paper.
 

Sharpedge

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Heh, it seems someone else did the screenshot thing as well. Here is a short image montage which illustrates exactly why phys damage is the "no brainer" in this game.

Obviously, it doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things since the game is so easy that you can win it with pretty much anything at all, someone even one turn killed the final boss with grenades, but it does illustrate the point quite nicely that in the, "physical vs elemental" debate, physical is quite clearly the winner.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Heh, it seems someone else did the screenshot thing as well. Here is a short image montage which illustrates exactly why phys damage is the "no brainer" in this game.

Obviously, it doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things since the game is so easy that you can win it with pretty much anything at all, someone even one turn killed the final boss with grenades, but it does illustrate the point quite nicely that in the, "physical vs elemental" debate, physical is quite clearly the winner.


Clearly, obviously, factually -> all words for missing arguments. If the bad guys never get a turn, there is no objectively better way. The end.
 

Shrimp

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Heh, it seems someone else did the screenshot thing as well. Here is a short image montage which illustrates exactly why phys damage is the "no brainer" in this game.

Obviously, it doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things since the game is so easy that you can win it with pretty much anything at all, someone even one turn killed the final boss with grenades, but it does illustrate the point quite nicely that in the, "physical vs elemental" debate, physical is quite clearly the winner.

In one of the comments the uploader says most enemies had their resistances lowered in the definitive version that was released later. Any idea how much they changed?
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, I think that playing a split party might not be optimal but it ended up working for the highest difficulty and tuning the builds to have some options was a fun for me, too. Some of the encounters had interesting strategic angles of prioritizing different hard and soft targets. Some were not so great. All in all, it was fine like a frozen pizza or something but not some top shelf New York shit.

Not optimal, but neither is not filling out your party with multiple Kensai or sword saints or vivisectionist or whatever in various IE games/Kingmaker etc. Not sure an argument about “does this system get broken in half over your knee if you build a one dimensional party” and talk about D&D crpgs with a straight face lol

Vivi didn’t turn out to be optimal either. P:K is light years ahead of either D:OS, including the well-conceived but weakly executed armor system, which was just a streamlined version of BG2 mage battles.
 

mondblut

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What about design? It is generic TB combat lol. You waste 10 minutes on a meaningless battle with slow animations and move on to experience the rest of the game. Who the fuck cares if you could min-max it by having party of single type of magic users lol?!

Min-maxing might turn those 10 wasted minutes into 5 wasted minutes, you dummy.
 

fantadomat

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What about design? It is generic TB combat lol. You waste 10 minutes on a meaningless battle with slow animations and move on to experience the rest of the game. Who the fuck cares if you could min-max it by having party of single type of magic users lol?!

Min-maxing might turn those 10 wasted minutes into 5 wasted minutes, you dummy.
Fair enough point. Tho for people with enough rpg exp there is no need for much minmaxing.
 

Lambach

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Heh, it seems someone else did the screenshot thing as well. Here is a short image montage which illustrates exactly why phys damage is the "no brainer" in this game.



retard_sheepfuckerford: "Heh, all you n00bs don't know what you're talking about. Us ELITE PRO GAMERS know that the most optimal way to play the game is to gimp yourself by having half your party run at 30% efficiency.

I really love the taste of BASED SWEN'S Belgian Waffle in my mouth"
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
It’s just an endless reel of people dunking on shit they don’t even understand. By midgame all my toons could do magic or physical and the enemies never got a turn. “Gimped” makes no sense in that context.

I’m not dunking on your nukes or your physical prowess or even your ignorance, I’m dunking on your ignorance of your ignorance and your foolish pride in it.
 

Lambach

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It’s just an endless reel of people dunking on shit they don’t even understand. By midgame all my toons could do magic or physical and the enemies never got a turn. “Gimped” makes no sense in that context.

That's only proof that the game is easy, not that the armor system was a good design choice or that it encourages having a mixed party.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
It’s just an endless reel of people dunking on shit they don’t even understand. By midgame all my toons could do magic or physical and the enemies never got a turn. “Gimped” makes no sense in that context.

That's only proof that the game is easy, not that the armor system was a good design choice or that it encourages having a mixed party.

That’s wasn’t the criteria you set, dipshit.
 
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That's only proof that the game is easy, not that the armor system was a good design choice or that it encourages having a mixed party.

The whole genre falls apart though if that's the bar. Looking through the list of top rpgs according to codexers:

- Torment, lol
- Fallouts, gifted, guns, small frame, power armor, blah
- BG2 fighter mages
- Arcanum, where do you even start
- Bloodlines, ditto
- Gothic 2 DLC sword
- AoD, plenty of trap builds
- Kingmaker sword saints doing 700 damage
- JA2, clear tiers in mercs
- IWD, war chant of the sith
- Witcher 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm81LSKJC2k
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
That’s wasn’t the criteria you set, dipshit.

Actually, "the criteria", or what started this whole thread, was arguing whether DOS2's armor system encouraged having a mixed party or not. Get your fat ass back to elementary school and learn to read, smegma licker.

And the answer is yes, of course. And by mixed party that means mixed toons because no reason not to. That you don’t even seem to be aware of the possibility shows just what a noob you truly are.

Doesn’t matter how much damage I can do to shit that never gets to act. So sorry you never bothered to play 2/3 of the game. It’s kind of fun for awhile before it gets trivial and/or becomes a Diablo-style loot updating simulator.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
That's only proof that the game is easy, not that the armor system was a good design choice or that it encourages having a mixed party.

The whole genre falls apart though if that's the bar. Looking through the list of top rpgs according to codexers:

- Torment, lol
- Fallouts, gifted, guns, small frame, power armor, blah
- BG2 fighter mages
- Arcanum, where do you even start
- Bloodlines, ditto
- Gothic 2 DLC sword
- AoD, plenty of trap builds
- Kingmaker sword saints doing 700 damage
- JA2, clear tiers in mercs
- IWD, war chant of the sith
- Witcher 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm81LSKJC2k

The strength of the Sword Saint isn’t the 700 damage. If you’re playing the game as designed tinman then a mixed party is indeed the best approach, specifically a party with a Freebooter, Bard, Cleric, and Alchemist.

Obviously speed runs and the like are a thing but if you start out trying to play the game as designed that goes a long way, and sometimes you find yourself doing better than the one dimensional hurt durr powerganers.
 
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Sure, I think that's true of almost all of these examples. I'm just suggesting that having non-optimal options doesn't seem like an important criteria for whether codexers think a game is good or not.
 

bec de corbin

Educated
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I think when I actually played through all of DOS2 I had three physical attackers running around and one elemental one to lock down the stuff with minimal magic armor
 

Lambach

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Sure, I think that's true of almost all of these examples. I'm just suggesting that having non-optimal options doesn't seem like an important criteria for whether codexers think a game is good or not.

I never claimed DOS2 wasn't a good game, I like it quite a bit, as a matter of fact. I was saying that I would've liked it a lot better without the current armor system and with something more similar to the first DOS, and that the current armor system makes having a mixed party an obviously sub-optimal choice, contrary to what certain double-digit IQ people in this thread claim.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Sure, I think that's true of almost all of these examples. I'm just suggesting that having non-optimal options doesn't seem like an important criteria for whether codexers think a game is good or not.

Good games aren’t trivially optimized. Most “optimizers” are getting there via insufficient criteria or getting stuck on an inevitable exploit or two that can easily be omitted.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Sure, I think that's true of almost all of these examples. I'm just suggesting that having non-optimal options doesn't seem like an important criteria for whether codexers think a game is good or not.

I never claimed DOS2 wasn't a good game, I like it quite a bit, as a matter of fact. I was saying that I would've liked it a lot better without the current armor system and with something more similar to the first DOS, and that the current armor system makes having a mixed party an obviously sub-optimal choice, contrary to what certain double-digit IQ people in this thread claim.

If it were obvious you wouldn’t have to say it. Advertising to the world that you don’t understand how logic works and that you find bald-faced lies that are trivially refuted persuasive is a bad look.

If there are multiple flawless approaches none of them are sub-optimal by definition. You chose the wrong argument.
 

bec de corbin

Educated
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Sure, I think that's true of almost all of these examples. I'm just suggesting that having non-optimal options doesn't seem like an important criteria for whether codexers think a game is good or not.

I never claimed DOS2 wasn't a good game, I like it quite a bit, as a matter of fact. I was saying that I would've liked it a lot better without the current armor system and with something more similar to the first DOS, and that the current armor system makes having a mixed party an obviously sub-optimal choice, contrary to what certain double-digit IQ people in this thread claim.
just mod it out then
 

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