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Divinity Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Definitive Edition

Discussion in 'Larian Studios' started by Lacrymas, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Eyestabber Arcane Patron

    Eyestabber
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    Luckmann beautiful wall of autism, m8. You just wrote an in-depth "everything wrong with D:OS 2". I agree with every line. However, I doubt Larian will "fix" any of that (maybe the initiative thing) because the grey/blue shield system was a conscious decision to dumb the game down and we've seen that before: when :decline: is commercially successful it is never EVER rolled back. And this game seems to be selling like hot cakes so...

    I just wanna point out that this system KILLS the entire purpose of having a gazillion different status effects. Why bother with taunt when you can knockdown instead? In the first game weaker forms of CC were balanced by either being more likely to succeed or having a wider area. In this game you just choose whatever drops the shields faster and then go for the strongest and longest CC available. Meh...
     
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  2. Stavrophore Kalin was right all along. Patron

    Stavrophore
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    Strap Yourselves In
    Maaaaan, write a review already!
     
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  3. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...-divinity-original-sin-2s-singleplayer-great/

     
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  4. cannondwarf Learned

    cannondwarf
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    I like how every single review only has images from act 1 or early act 2
     
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  5. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    But why? Setting up enemies for CC always feels like a pain because they are so easily countered.

    Point Form Reasons Why CC Sucks:
    • You can almost guarantee they have spells to break CC.
      • CC Breakers generally offer a tangible benefit in addition to breaking CC (aka First Aid Cures Health And Knockdown)
      • CC Breakers are usually on a similar Cooldown
      • Enemies outnumber you so they have more casts of CC breaking than you do of CC.
      • CC Breakers are very cheap. Usually 1 AP vs the 2AP cost to CC something. It's a shit trade.
    • It's extremely easy to regenerate Phys / Magic armor, enemies do it all the time to themselves or their allies
      • So you usually have to CC the same turn you broke their shield
    • If the enemy went before you CC'd them that round, you have to pray that nobody else breaks it before their next turn otherwise you just wasted 2 AP for nothing.

    I say all that to say this. I'm not complaining that it's too hard. It's just easier to kill someone than waste a bunch of AP "Controlling" them.

    When you start abusing AP Increase Spells + Chains + Healing spells, you can quickly rack up ungodly amounts of damage that totally eclipse a 1 turn knockdown (assuming they don't get a first aid thrown out right before their turn).

    I'm not saying you can't use CC.. but it feels like it just needlessly draws out the battle, because all spells are basically on cool downs, the more turns you leave someone alive, the longer they have to regain cool downed abilities that let them replenish their Shields / Health / CC you / Heal other CC's.

    It feels like a game of magical chairs except the chairs are working together to fuck you over.

    What's the point of leaving someone with half health as a chicken for 2 turns? Your giving them 2 turns to rebuff themselves / get healed / restore cooldowned abilities, while you work on chewing through another enemies shields.

    TL;DR
    Best CC in the game is "Death Status"
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  6. fantadomat Arcane Edgy Wumao

    fantadomat
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    Well i am surprised that the jornos managed to get past the tutorial.Those void cockroaches could be dangerous on story mode.
     
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  7. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    Hamburger Hepler would be triggered that they didn't add a Story Only Mode.
    What do you mean I have to fight stuff?
     
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  8. siroptimusprime Novice

    siroptimusprime
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    There are some fights very late in the game where not knocking down a character means you either have to chase them halfway across the fucking map with dives and teleports and shit, OR not knocking them down means eating 150 AP worth of insane damage overpowers and whirlwinds or sparking strikes chewing you up. There's one fight in the last act with a fighter-type that ate ~10k health + armor in a round if I didn't force a knockdown.

    Or, some fights that start mages a good distance away from you and they get a guaranteed rain off due to the PlayerInitiative+1. Well, the next guy can chain lightning all of your magic armor off and stun 3/4 of your party. You can probably survive that stun if you push on, but you could also dive a dude back there and stomp his ass into the dirt, distract the other mage, and create enough havoc that you strand that previously scary fighter. Formation change doesn't work in that scenario.

    Also, enemies using First Aid to restore KO was extremely rare in the entire game. And, frankly, if they do that they're just restoring meat health. My party comp had 3 characters with at least 1 physical knockdown (not including arrows) and a summoner that I loved power infusion on. The few times a ranger character got anywhere near to use FA, I just laughed and battered the idiot ranger and his dumbass friend so now my stuns are twice as effective. It was likely just my comp that allowed for that, since I only used my pyro and hydro skills as secondary damage or utility just for dudes with low/no magic armor.
     
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  9. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    Slow is a easy CC to apply that goes through Armor / Shields (I think?). Same with Teleport.

    I'm sure CC can have some situational use in some edge case where your fighting 3 enemies lined up with zero physical armor.
    Don't be so pedantic. Generally speaking it's useless. IMHO
     
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  10. siroptimusprime Novice

    siroptimusprime
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    They were lined up with 0 physical armor because it's easy to create that scenario with a fighter/fighter/ranger/summoner squad. That's why I mentioned that it's likely my composition since I built the party to do exactly that.

    It was not an edge case, that happened in the majority of my fights.
     
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  11. Sjukob Arcane

    Sjukob
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    I'm 75 hours in as well . And I haven't even flirted with anybody , aside from prince randomly offering me sex when I asked him about succubus . I have no idea how you people are doing this .
     
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  12. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    I'm aware I'm playing a modified version with a nonstandard party, but for me CC is a question of (1) keeping someone disabled if they're dangerous and I can't get to them or they have a mountain of HP, while I knock off other dudes; (2) making sure that guy can't run away / restore himself if I can't kill him this turn, so that I can finish him off next turn.

    I can imagine how (1) becomes less common with 4 party members, for one. But running two (which also means each dude has more AP to attack and CC etc in the same turn via Lone Wolf), CC seems fairly important.
     
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  13. fantadomat Arcane Edgy Wumao

    fantadomat
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    Are you for real?Everyone is offering me sex!
     
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  14. Immortal Arcane

    Immortal
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    Even in a fantasy RPG you're trapped as a sexless virgin. Hmm..

    :negative:
     
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  15. Fenix Arcane Vatnik

    Fenix
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    At least it is not inExile.
    Actually I don't see they listen, I see they do what they usually do, with their BALANCE all over the place and non game content at all.

    Until they won't change whole game to make it actually interesting to play, all these changes just an ash in eyes.

    Alternative?

    Yes, and... what? Twicher did it too, and won BEST Codex RPG of 2016?
    Seriously, alternative when?

    In short, you didn't answer my question, and told about everything else - looks like whining sodomy.

    No matter what you do, you can't turn shit into chocolate.
    This is a Spacebar game now and forever.

    I see no real issues (only whining), and for sure DOS2 has significantly less problems than PoE. Like times less.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
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  16. Reapa Doom Preacher

    Reapa
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    ffs, what is it with this game and scaling?
    i just equipped a new breastplate i found and noticed i got like 50% more armor value than what was written in the stats of the breastplate, so i did some quick testing with other gear. any and every single piece of equipment will contribute about 50% more to your armor or magic armor value than it says in the description. what the fuck is going on?
    i'm level 10 on tactician, btw. does tactician increase the player character values as well as the enemies by the same amount?
    i didn't check on classic, does it happen there too?
    what is the point of this bullshit? if armor stats get changed by any percentage why don't they also get changed in the description? why do you have to equip something first for it to have an effect?
    and no, it's not because of lone wolf, since lone wolf is supposed to raise your armor value only by 30%. i see no other skills, traits, attributes that would change equipment values.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  17. Black Arcane

    Black
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    So, vanilla DOS 1 had the best system?
     
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  18. DeepOcean Arcane

    DeepOcean
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    Now seriously, all edgyness aside, I hope Larian see this and try to fix the system, I really wanna play a good RPG with good combat, hope they don't have a cynical attitude of casual pandering in detriment of the quality of the game.
     
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  19. Iznaliu Arbiter

    Iznaliu
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    That seems to be the consensus around here for some reason.
     
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  20. Black Arcane

    Black
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    The reason is that it offered a great variety of things to do and try, for vanilla players, casuls, min maxers and everything in between.
    Then EE happened with its:littlemissfun:. And now compare stats of DOS 2 to those of 1.
     
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  21. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    Reapa +% to armour from some attrib/skill/thing? That's what it would be with wepaons.
     
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  22. Ruchy Learned

    Ruchy
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    I have just finished fort joy area with three friends, gotta say it has been a blast multi player. Cannot say much for the story as it can be hard to absorb all the points while 3 others are running around having independent conversations but overall probably the best RPG multi player experience I have had.
     
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  23. Payd Shell Prophet

    Payd Shell
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    Consumers are good at pointing out flaws but are rarely able to tell you the reason or a fix for said flaws. The worst part about the initiative for example is that the game simply doesn't tell you that all it does is creating an in-group competition on who gets his turn when. The round-robin system can be exploited as well for your gains, it just works absolutely counter-intuitive. Normally you'd think that killing the enemy that has his turn between two of your guys is a benefit for you because next round two of your guys can have their turn after each other. With D:OS 2 however, this approach can fuck you over without you knowing what you did wrong. In this game, the better choice is to keep the enemies that have their turns between your turns locked down with CC but alive and kill the guys at the very end of the turn first to prevent potentially negative results from the re-shuffling that inevitably happens if you kill one of the enemis that has his turn between your turns. Wits and initiative is only important for the internal turn-order so you want to give your geomancer one point in wits more than your pyro and also lock the enemy down that has his turn between those two so they can do their oil-fire combo. That being said, the current incarnation smells like a last-minute-change - a pretty bad one if I might add.

    As far as the armor and CC-immunity that comes with it is concerned, I'd also have to disagree with how it is depicted here. There are ways to lock down enemies without breaking their armor, though the results may vary. You can use ice to make enemies slip (bonus points if you put nails on your shoes to make you immune to just that), oil to slow them down to a crawl, smoke / LoS in general and surfaces to funnel them through a path that is advantageous for you - just make sure to actually try to leave a path without harmful surfaces for them, otherwise they'll just run straight through them. If given the chance however, the AI tends to avoid the surfaces so if it can it acts rather predictable, even if they have to waste AP to avoid the surfaces. And of course teleport, if positioned correctly you can make an enemy waste two turns or more to make it back to the fight or pull a high priority target into your personal rape pit. Those are of course more situational than average hard CC like knockdowns and such but they can be applied to almost anyone. If you go into poly, spider legs also provide you with an AoE immobilize with a 1 AP cost and 1 turn CD that can't be resisted unless the enemy is flying/floating - with a chance for them to get enwebbed again if they try to move through the web.

    That's not that I think that the game has no flaws, I'd also rather have a normal initiative-system but I have to say I do like the armor system, at least in concept. RNG causes you to lose battles that you should've won and causes you to win battles you should've lost. No matter the tactics you employ (or the lack thereof) the dice roll has the final say. And while it may feel good every now and then, you know that victories you've earned through sheer luck aren't earned and that battles lost through bad luck aren't justified. People in general are also more likely to remember that missed 95% that caused them to lose a battle than they are to remember the 5% success that saved the day. That being said, I don't think the armor system is anywhere near perfection but I do appreciate that the stuff I do isn't jeopardized through RNG and if I die it is my fault almost entirely.
     
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  24. Reapa Doom Preacher

    Reapa
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    already mentioned that i checked all attributes, skills and traits and none are supposed to increase armor from equipment except lone wolf. geomancer raises armor boosts but only from potions and spells and i checked geomancer by equipping and unequipping a geomancer ring. it doesn't change armor values.
     
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  25. Ruzen Savant

    Ruzen
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    After all the examples I gave If you still think that:M. I dunno how can we communicate further.

    :retarded:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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