Divinity Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Definitive Edition

[Lahey]

That's a pretty poor Photoshop job; I can still see the outlines of the original letters.

That's a pretty poor post; I can still see the bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

 

[DraQ]

That's a pretty poor Photoshop job; I can still see the outlines of the original letters.

That's a pretty poor post; I can still see the bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

That's a pretty poor account; I can still see the "Joined: Jun 10, 2017".

 

[Iznaliu]

Have they fixed this game yet? It's been two months.

When the game is constantly being lauded by mainstream players, with much of the complaints coming from players who don't see it as dumbed-down enough, I doubt Larian is going to change anything.

 

[cruel]

I've started playing this, and really enjoyed it - feeling that most of the weak points of original D:OS were fixed. Then, I've started to see armor mechanics and this physical / magical armor split. WTF is that? Some crappy lizard with 2HP left can't be killed by sword because all the damage before was done by magic? And vice versa? Not to say about the impact of all status effects not being applicable becuase of this magical armor crap.

I'm guessing that this was probably discussed already on those 160+ pages in the thread, but can somebody please explain me any logic of this mechanic being present in the game? It has no sense for me at all and made me stop playing this, wondering if I'm missing something or this is just plain stupidity being there and nothing to do about it.

 

[Abu Antar]

I've started playing this, and really enjoyed it - feeling that most of the weak points of original D:OS were fixed. Then, I've started to see armor mechanics and this physical / magical armor split. WTF is that? Some crappy lizard with 2HP left can't be killed by sword because all the damage before was done by magic? And vice versa? Not to say about the impact of all status effects not being applicable becuase of this magical armor crap.

I'm guessing that this was probably discussed already on those 160+ pages in the thread, but can somebody please explain me any logic of this mechanic being present in the game? It has no sense for me at all and made me stop playing this, wondering if I'm missing something or this is just plain stupidity being there and nothing to do about it.

 

[imweasel]

but can somebody please explain me any logic of this mechanic being present in the game?

D:OS 2 has a deterministic system to make the game more accessible for those who can't figure out how an RNG works.

Enjoy!

 

[anvi]

When should someone play this game who wants to have the most fun and is happy to wait for mods/patches?

a) Now is fine
b) Maybe sometime around Xmas/New year
c) It is gonna be well into next year by the time this game is worth playing
d) It may never be worth playing

 

[Roguey]

When should someone play this game who wants to have the most fun and is happy to wait for mods/patches?

a) Now is fine
b) Maybe sometime around Xmas/New year
c) It is gonna be well into next year by the time this game is worth playing
d) It may never be worth playing

If 2 or 3 months go by without a patch, it's more or less finished. It's only been about a month since the last big one.

 

[anvi]

Thanks gonna wait until next year. I'd like another patch or so but also some mods. Sounds like there are some good ones already but sounds like they might need a bit more work.

 

[Iznaliu]

Thanks gonna wait until next year. I'd like another patch or so but also some mods. Sounds like there are some good ones already but sounds like they might need a bit more work.

I think the game's modding community will be pretty much moribund in a year's time; Larian hasn't really given it the attention it needs to truly thrive.

 

[Lacrymas]

Has anyone tried just removing the armor system altogether and buffing up enemy HP?

 

[Infinitron]

When should someone play this game who wants to have the most fun and is happy to wait for mods/patches?

a) Now is fine
b) Maybe sometime around Xmas/New year
c) It is gonna be well into next year by the time this game is worth playing
d) It may never be worth playing

If 2 or 3 months go by without a patch, it's more or less finished. It's only been about a month since the last big one.

If you think Larian aren't planning changes or expansions to this game (now with 950,000 owners on Steamspy) you are delusional. If they're being quiet now it's because they've got big plans. Plus, holidays may delay the release of whatever they're working on.

 

[Roguey]

Has anyone tried just removing the armor system altogether and buffing up enemy HP?

Crowd control with bloat doesn't sound particularly fun.

 

[Lacrymas]

If removing armor means the combat turns into a CC bloat fest, then I think the game has deeper issues than just armor and fucked initiative. Which makes me think that's why they aren't addressing the criticism, they'd have to recreate the combat system from scratch.

 

[Darth Roxor]

If removing armor means the combat turns into a CC bloat fest, then I think the game has deeper issues than just armor and fucked initiative. Which makes me think that's why they aren't addressing the criticism, they'd have to recreate the combat system from scratch.

wow gud conclusion

its not like i've been saying this for like 160 pages now

 

[Roguey]

If removing armor means the combat turns into a CC bloat fest, then I think the game has deeper issues than just armor and fucked initiative. Which makes me think that's why they aren't addressing the criticism, they'd have to recreate the combat system from scratch.

Someone already created a mod that turns armor from all-or-nothing into a chance to succeed/fail that varies based on how much remaining armor there is. The biggest issue is the hard coded initiative that can't be changed through any modding.

 

[anvi]

I don't know what this issue is but it sounds bad and I'm sads.

 

[Iznaliu]

then I think the game has deeper issues than just armor and fucked initiative. Which makes me think that's why they aren't addressing the criticism, they'd have to recreate the combat system from scratch.

This was all discussed right when the game was released, and the conclusion was that they made changes to their design very intentionally, even though you and me way thing that that has made the design shittier; that is irrelevant since we aren't the target audience. The armour served as a easier-to-understand alternative to saving throws with much less of the dreaded RNG that the marginal players that Larian needs to move sales, and the initiative was also designed with determinism in mind. It's crystal-clear at this point that this determinism is a feature, not a bug for Larian.

 

[Lacrymas]

Two things about that. If they think players are so averse to RNG (which is not RNG, it's probability, but let's not get into that) why have random loot drops, lolololol? I know this game is designed by a person with dissociative identity disorder, but still.

The second thing is that I get they want to move more sales, but how do they know the armor system will achieve that? Even now, do they have a statistic saying "the game got 10/10s everywhere because of the mechanical changes we made, including armor and initiative"? Is there a statistic saying "if we stuck to the probability, we wouldn't have moved that many copies"? I just don't see how they can know these things. Not only know, but actively design the whole game around them.

 

[Roguey]

Two things about that. If they think players are so averse to RNG (which is not RNG, it's probability, but let's not get into that) why have random loot drops, lolololol?

Random loot doesn't make you lose battles.

I just don't see how they can know these things. Not only know, but actively design the whole game around them.

Playtesting and feedback.

 

[Lacrymas]

Aha, so now it's about losing battles, rather than the probabilities themselves. Let's remove any possibility of losing then?

About playtesting and feedback - do they get the most retarded and shit players in existence to playtest these things? Judging by the stories you quoted about Obsidian's playtesters, I wouldn't be surprised tbh. I dunno, I think they underestimate what players are capable of if given enough time. Sure, they might fail at the game at first, but then stop sucking and stop failing. And besides, losing in a game means you've already bought it. Do they think someone will say to their friends, "oh, yeah, I suck at this game and keep dying over and over, don't buy it" and they won't buy it? What about Dark Souls? Sure, there's no skill involved there, only repetition and memorization, but still. I'm not entirely convinced and I think it's kind of condescending on their part.

 

[Roguey]

Aha, so now it's about losing battles, rather than the probabilities themselves. Let's remove any possibility of losing then?

They lose the battles because the crowd control spell they were relying on failed. The triple whammy of the spell failing, the action points for casting the spell having been used up, and the spell now being on cooldown for x turns. You are in an unquestionably worse position whenever this happens. Good players can overcome these odds with no or few problems, bad players can't.

I dunno, I think they underestimate what players are capable of if given enough time. Sure, they might fail at the game at first, but then stop sucking and stop failing. And besides, losing in a game means you've already bought it. Do they think someone will say to their friends, "oh, yeah, I suck at this game and keep dying over and over, don't buy it" and they won't buy it?

Developers want to make games most of their consumers will enjoy. D:OS 2 has a much bigger budget than the first, which means it must accommodate the skillset of a wider audience (and wider always means worse).

What about Dark Souls? Sure, there's no skill involved there, only repetition and memorization, but still. I'm not entirely convinced and I think it's kind of condescending on their part.

It's a different set of skills being tested.

 

[Infinitron]

Playtesting and feedback.

Do we really know this? Maybe somebody on the team just went on a power trip and Swen thought the system he came up with looked cool.

We do need a Codex interview, don't we.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes, of course it's a different set of "skills", but I'm giving it as an example of where even very bad players are going to keep at it until they make it. Sure, they are oblivious to the fact that the game caters to bad players, but they still stick by it till the end. What is to say people playing D:OS2 won't do that? Keep at it until they do it? Isn't that what players in the past did? Why is the first instinct to remove any challenge, rather than see if the players are going to surmount it?

 

[Roguey]

Do we really know this? Maybe somebody on the team just went on a power trip and Swen thought the system he came up with looked cool.

We do need a Codex interview, don't we.

Even if we had one I doubt he'd reply with "Oh yeah, everyone hated this system but we went with it anyway." Going by this poll posted on the Larian forum, a plurality of them like the new armor system http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=59c0386fe4b0060d7fa8b26a

What is to say people playing D:OS2 won't do that? Keep at it until they do it? Isn't that what players in the past did? Why is the first instinct to remove any challenge, rather than see if the players are going to surmount it?

Eliminating randomness doesn't necessarily remove challenge. It gives a lot a players a challenge that is more palatable to them. For them "I lost because of bad figurative dice rolls (and I don't have the acuity to overcome those bad rolls)" is bad, "I lost because I wasn't performing the actions I should have been doing" is fine.