Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[Zep Zepo]

Tanked the whole B.R fight.

Spoiler

Pussies

Zep--

 

[Roguey]

Overlooked https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/513625143969476609, laughed at it.

Leaning more and more towards OS being the last Larian game I play. The LSN breathes a sigh of relief.

 

[Mraston]

And as far as the setting being silly, that's also a silly argument. A game's setting can be whatever it wants to be. It's the execution of the setting what matters, not the choice of the setting. Note I'm not judging the execution of DOS's setting, just that the argument is retarded. A silly setting is fine if it is implemented well. If you don't like the setting, then that's your subjective preference coming up inappropriately in an objective analysis of a game/book/movie/whatever. Might as well say Nolan's Batman is the best@#!@$@!@$ because it is realistic.

The writing and lackluster setting brings down the game? That's retarded. No, the game is brought down by having interesting non-combat quests in the beginning and then deteriorating in that aspect, by having encounters that don't progressively become more difficult (in terms of design, not HP or damage bloat or whatever), later skills that don't really add much utility in relation to early level skills, and shitty loot system.

If you can't understand this, get your head out of your ass and actually think about game design when you play a game.

Saying the setting is silly isn't a bad argument. One of the core principles of RPG game is resource management, a bleak or dangerous setting can stress and emphasis the problem of diminished resources, thus the setting compliments the game design. Nolan's Batman also isn't realistic, it's Noir (a style that in no way seeks realism as a core tenant). Arguing that the lighthearted (silly) setting detracts from the gameplay is not a "retarded" argument - RPGS are nothing more than dice rolls and numbers and managing those things effectively, what differs between them is how those dice rolls and numbers are presented. Setting is a huge component of enjoyment and the game's design.

Again, of course the writing can bring down the game. If you have to trudge through reams of non-nonsensical, bloated, mood ruining dialogue to play the game...then it's part of the game game design.

Your points about deterioration of non-combat quests and encounters not increasing in thought challenging difficulty are correct, by they can't be divorced from setting and dialogue. Even if we run with your assumption that the quest and encounter design are the most important aspect of the game, the addition of dialogue and setting that in any way interfere with getting to those things ruin the game. This makes setting and dialog an important design factor (by your own argument).

As for my thoughts, Fuck any game that starts with the menace of an Orc invasion or Undead plague. Jesus Christ think of something new.

 

[Mangoose]

Saying the setting is silly isn't a bad argument. One of the core principles of RPG game is resource management, a bleak or dangerous setting can stress and emphasis the problem of diminished resources, thus the setting compliments the game design.

A silly setting can have bleak and dangerous elements. Not mutually exclusive.

Nolan's Batman also isn't realistic, it's Noir

Either you have Burton and Nolan confused or you are retarded.

Arguing that the lighthearted (silly) setting detracts from the gameplay is not a "retarded" argument - RPGS are nothing more than dice rolls and numbers and managing those things effectively, what differs between them is how those dice rolls and numbers are presented. Setting is a huge component of enjoyment and the game's design.

Only for storyfags.

Again, of course the writing can bring down the game. If you have to trudge through reams of non-nonsensical, bloated, mood ruining dialogue to play the game...then it's part of the game game design.

If you have to trudge through reams of good bloated dialogue it still ruins the game because

the addition of dialogue and setting that in any way interfere with getting to those things ruin the game

It still interferes with getting to gameplay elements. If you have a great setting and have to take hours getting somewhere you get a walking simulator.

As for my thoughts, Fuck any game that starts with the menace of an Orc invasion or Undead plague. Jesus Christ think of something new.

Yeah man gotta rape Lara Croft so she has a reason to kill baddies.

 

[Jasede]

Is there a reason you're being so hostile/defensive? You sound like someone pissed in your cereal.

 

[sbb]

Is there a reason you're being so hostile/defensive? You sound like someone pissed in your cereal.

Is there a reason you're stepping on a reasonable conversation you're not a part of?

 

[Morality Games]

Is there a reason you're being so hostile/defensive? You sound like someone pissed in your cereal.

Is there a reason you're stepping on a reasonable conversation you're not a part of?

Wait, what? It's a public forum. If you want privacy there's a functionality for that.

 

[sbb]

Is there a reason you're being so hostile/defensive? You sound like someone pissed in your cereal.

Is there a reason you're stepping on a reasonable conversation you're not a part of?

Wait, what? It's a public forum. If you want privacy there's a functionality for that.

Not saying it was a private conversation. I'm saying Jasede needs to re-evaluate who's being hostile (and maybe I need to re-evaluate who's being defensive )

 

[Mraston]

Saying the setting is silly isn't a bad argument. One of the core principles of RPG game is resource management, a bleak or dangerous setting can stress and emphasis the problem of diminished resources, thus the setting compliments the game design.

A silly setting can have bleak and dangerous elements. Not mutually exclusive.

Nolan's Batman also isn't realistic, it's Noir

Either you have Burton and Nolan confused or you are retarded.

Arguing that the lighthearted (silly) setting detracts from the gameplay is not a "retarded" argument - RPGS are nothing more than dice rolls and numbers and managing those things effectively, what differs between them is how those dice rolls and numbers are presented. Setting is a huge component of enjoyment and the game's design.

Only for storyfags.

Again, of course the writing can bring down the game. If you have to trudge through reams of non-nonsensical, bloated, mood ruining dialogue to play the game...then it's part of the game game design.

If you have to trudge through reams of good bloated dialogue it still ruins the game because

the addition of dialogue and setting that in any way interfere with getting to those things ruin the game

It still interferes with getting to gameplay elements. If you have a great setting and have to take hours getting somewhere you get a walking simulator.

As for my thoughts, Fuck any game that starts with the menace of an Orc invasion or Undead plague. Jesus Christ think of something new.

Yeah man gotta rape Lara Croft so she has a reason to kill baddies.

Your definition of Noir is as narrow as your definition of retarded is broad.

As for everything else, you seem to be agreeing with me that reams of shitty dialogue gets in the way of gameplay and thus is a game design choice (therefore not a "retarded" thing to bring up when explaining why you dislike a game).

Also, setting isn't just for "storyfags" and setting isn't story. You are getting the two things confused. Story is linear pre-programmed bullshit, setting creates buy-in and interest. You don't need a novel-like introduction to the game world, but you need some buy-in and coating to the ruleset. Other wise we would have RPG scenario simulators which were nothing more than bare numbers and sums. A great setting doesn't have to be verbose and grandiose and devolve the game to a walking simulator. In my opinion a great setting is implied, lithe, sparse and to the point (some built in titillation and curiosity inducement wouldn't go astray but isn't necessary) . It gives the player just enough buy in to give a fuck about the collection of stats they are directing about a field of dice rolls and numbers.

I don't even know what your on about with the Lara Croft thing, but I would prefer a game where I was presented with "There's undead in that weird old castle over there, there is probably treasure and experience too, you can ignore it if you want but who knows maybe after a while the undead will attack the town, your choice", than "The land is beset by an undead plague which you have to solve because you're the hero in this game". You don't need a reason to kill the baddies (there's a built in reason; Treasure and XP), but you also don't need the fate of the land thrown onto you as soon as you begin the game.

 

[Volrath]

Still by far the best RPG to be released this year

Storyfags can go fuck themselves.

 

[J_C]

Still by far the best RPG to be released this year

Storyfags can go fuck themselves.

I really don't get the hate for the story and settings, or the characters. They were not great, but it was decent, and no way in hell were they bad. Maybe people didn't like the silly overtone, but it is more of a charm than a negative factor. I wanted a more serious story and setting, but I could enjoy what Larian presented.

 

[StaticSpine]

Wow, Larian's opening offices in Russia:russia:

 

[Mangoose]

Your definition of Noir is as narrow as your definition of retarded is broad.

No

As for everything else, you seem to be agreeing with me that reams of shitty dialogue gets in the way of gameplay and thus is a game design choice (therefore not a "retarded" thing to bring up when explaining why you dislike a game).

No, I'm saying reams of dialogue, good or bad, gets in the way of gameplay.

Also, setting isn't just for "storyfags" and setting isn't story.

No shit, storyfag.

Other wise we would have RPG scenario simulators which were nothing more than bare numbers and sums.

Good.

I would prefer a game where I was presented with "There's undead in that weird old castle over there, there is probably treasure and experience too, you can ignore it if you want but who knows maybe after a while the undead will attack the town, your choice", than "The land is beset by an undead plague which you have to solve because you're the hero in this game". You don't need a reason to kill the baddies (there's a built in reason; Treasure and XP), but you also don't need the fate of the land thrown onto you as soon as you begin the game.

Who the fuck cares. If the gameplay is good I'm going to play the game even if the setting is uninteresting. If the gameplay is bad I'm not going to play it even if the setting is interesting.

 

[Abu Antar]

Wow, Larian's opening offices in Russia:russia:

What? I guess they'll close for business in 2018, then.

 

[Sitra Achara]

Wow, Larian's opening offices in Russia:russia:

Larian has bolshoi interview in Igromania.ru

http://www.igromania.ru/articles/23...zachem_Larian_otkryvayut_studiyu_v_Rossii.htm

Among other things: (Google Translated)

What should be the new role-playing game

Not so long ago, Kotaku's published column , where Josh Sawyer talked about design and balance in the Pillars of Eternity . His train of thought is especially curious given the fact that in the nineties, when things rpg classics like Baldur's Gate , about such things no one even thought about it. For example, Sawyer argues that it is necessary by all means to get rid of the so-called trash options - «garbage» opportunities obviously less important than the others, and only confuse the player. How swimming skills in Deus Ex , for example.

Is this the correct solution for role-playing games? Can we argue that the rationalization of all the possibilities - that is necessary for the modernization of the genre?

Not to say that I fully agree with this idea. In the modern game design is to be understood that the focus on key systems indeed very important, but the attempts to break the system can also add to the fun. If you are perfectly balansiruesh game and leave no room for small faults, this game will not necessarily be more interesting than where such failure is.

In my opinion, the project may well be possible, which are not necessarily all, without exception, seem helpful, but it will make the game more interesting for another part of the audience. For example, suppose a trash option is the ability to grow a mustache. The gameplay is not affected, but I can not, has circulated a skill to get big thick mustache. Someone such a thing probably will like, but technically it will trash option.

Speaking about the "garbage opportunities," you assume that something must always be at a minimum or maximum, but I do not think that the role play is required. I can act out a character who can not fight at all, but I like for him to play, as it is simply fun!

Can't roleplay Comrade Stalin without a mustache skill.

 

[Darth Roxor]

In the modern game design is to be understood that the focus on key systems indeed very important, but the attempts to break the system can also add to the fun.

 

[Mangoose]

Larian has bolshoi interview in Igromania.ru

http://www.igromania.ru/articles/23...zachem_Larian_otkryvayut_studiyu_v_Rossii.htm

Among other things: (Google Translated)

What should be the new role-playing game

Not so long ago, Kotaku's published column , where Josh Sawyer talked about design and balance in the Pillars of Eternity . His train of thought is especially curious given the fact that in the nineties, when things rpg classics like Baldur's Gate , about such things no one even thought about it. For example, Sawyer argues that it is necessary by all means to get rid of the so-called trash options - «garbage» opportunities obviously less important than the others, and only confuse the player. How swimming skills in Deus Ex , for example.

Is this the correct solution for role-playing games? Can we argue that the rationalization of all the possibilities - that is necessary for the modernization of the genre?

Not to say that I fully agree with this idea. In the modern game design is to be understood that the focus on key systems indeed very important, but the attempts to break the system can also add to the fun. If you are perfectly balansiruesh game and leave no room for small faults, this game will not necessarily be more interesting than where such failure is.

In my opinion, the project may well be possible, which are not necessarily all, without exception, seem helpful, but it will make the game more interesting for another part of the audience. For example, suppose a trash option is the ability to grow a mustache. The gameplay is not affected, but I can not, has circulated a skill to get big thick mustache. Someone such a thing probably will like, but technically it will trash option.

Speaking about the "garbage opportunities," you assume that something must always be at a minimum or maximum, but I do not think that the role play is required. I can act out a character who can not fight at all, but I like for him to play, as it is simply fun!

Can't roleplay Comrade Stalin without a mustache skill.

I think both sides are partially off the mark. You need to present the player with enough viable choices. DOS doesn't do this well, as we already talked about, as there are only a select few optimal skills per school.

But Sawyer is only half-right in his philosophy - It's not so much about minimizing trash options as much as having enough good options.

Arbitrarily speaking, if there are 5 balanced choices with 2 dump stats, that's fine. The problem is when you have only 2 viable choices; and then it doesn't whether there are 2 dump stats or 5 dump stats after that, honestly.

 

[Bubbles]

I've been playing through the second area (forest + Silverglen) and have got past the Immaculates' trial, but I've kind of hit a weird block. Everyone in my party is level 11, and all the remaining enemies in the game (I cleared out everything else) are in the range of level 13-14, and are virtually unbeatable for me. I've been skirting around avoiding enemies as best I can, but... am I missing something? Did they change the balance in an update and now my old save has my party irreversibly under-leveled or something?

If you cleared all the witch-related areas, the mines, and the trial on the second map and are still level 11, you must have skipped something major on the first map.

 

[Jasede]

Did you do the crab cave with the orcs at the beach? What about the undead court?

 

[Bubbles]

Witch-related areas? The shield's up around her hut but I haven't figured out how to drop it yet (was under the impression that was something I could get past later on).

Spoiler

The mushrooms next to the barrier only tell you that some wizard dude tried to dispel it, but that gives you a journal entry telling you that the dispel scroll is buried in the forest (bad design there). Then you can

a) go to that trapped-out place near the nectar drinking gobbos and dig for the scroll next to the chest (the parchment next to the chest is the clue that there's something buried there)

b) just kill the shrooms to drop the barrier (your imp can tell you about it)

 

[HiddenX]

RPGWatch review:

5/5 stars

Five stars means the following:
An outstanding game that will be remembered as a classic. A score of 5 indicates a game that is equal to the best gameplay available in the genre at the time of writing. It is, however, important to understand this does not represent an absolutely flawless game.

 

[Grunker]

you rate your games?

what sellouts

 

[circ]

Witch-related areas? The shield's up around her hut but I haven't figured out how to drop it yet (was under the impression that was something I could get past later on).

Spoiler

The mushrooms next to the barrier only tell you that some wizard dude tried to dispel it, but that gives you a journal entry telling you that the dispel scroll is buried in the forest (bad design there). Then you can

a) go to that trapped-out place near the nectar drinking gobbos and dig for the scroll next to the chest (the parchment next to the chest is the clue that there's something buried there)

b) just kill the shrooms to drop the barrier (your imp can tell you about it)

Spoiler

I haven't played DOS in a while but maybe I'll finish it eventually. Anyway that scroll. That whole place is trapped with magma, how do you bypass that? I think it had one of those grates but the nearby barrel just got destroyed.

Also, goblins and spiders should be doable at 11 and should get you to 13-14 maybe.

 

[Internet]

Witch-related areas? The shield's up around her hut but I haven't figured out how to drop it yet (was under the impression that was something I could get past later on).

Spoiler

The mushrooms next to the barrier only tell you that some wizard dude tried to dispel it, but that gives you a journal entry telling you that the dispel scroll is buried in the forest (bad design there). Then you can

a) go to that trapped-out place near the nectar drinking gobbos and dig for the scroll next to the chest (the parchment next to the chest is the clue that there's something buried there)

b) just kill the shrooms to drop the barrier (your imp can tell you about it)

Spoiler

I haven't played DOS in a while but maybe I'll finish it eventually. Anyway that scroll. That whole place is trapped with magma, how do you bypass that? I think it had one of those grates but the nearby barrel just got destroyed.

Also, goblins and spiders should be doable at 11 and should get you to 13-14 maybe.

Spoiler

Can't remember the place, but usually in the game I got around lava using the tornado spell (clears the surface) or teleporting characters (teleport/featherfall spell, can't remember which) or objects (telekinesis)

 

[HiddenX]

you rate your games?

what sellouts

Yep, we rate games, but a bit different than other gaming sites:

Review Criteria
We understand that game reviews and scores are a complex matter, so this document outlines RPGWatch’s scoring and review criteria to assist readers and help put them in context.

Scoring
Here’s a rough guide to the 1-5 scoring system we use:

5 – An outstanding game that will be remembered as a classic. A score of 5 indicates a game that is equal to the best gameplay available in the genre at the time of writing. It is, however, important to understand this does not represent an absolutely flawless game.

4 – An excellent game with some minor issues or weaknesses but still very highly recommended.

3 – A score of 3/5 indicates a good game held back by obvious technical or design issues that limit the appeal. Games that score 3/5 will often split opinion, depending on how strongly the player perceives the flaws.

2 – A game that has significant flaws or stale gameplay but may still offer some enjoyment to fans of the genre or subject.

1 – A bad game with overwhelming issues that should simply be avoided.

The score is secondary to the full text of the review and we encourage visitors to read the entire article.

Review Goals

All RPGWatch reviews are written by unpaid volunteers and this will have some impact on the process. In most cases we do not receive official copies, so reviewers usually buy their own copy. It is natural that our volunteer writers are most likely to buy games they are interested in and this will mean that not all games are reviewed and there may appear to be a positive skew to the results.

The following section is an overview of our reviewing process and goals:

• Our reviews are the individual opinion of the author, based on their personal observations from playing the game. While reviews are an expression of the author’s experience with the game, the text should be tempered by an understanding of the broader market and include enough details of the gameplay for readers to form their own opinion of the game’s suitability for their tastes.
• Our reviews must be factually correct. Our reviewers are encouraged to do as much research within and outside of the reviewed game as possible to avoid errors.
• Our reviewers must be unbiased, unprejudiced and impartial.
• The reality is that reviews are often judged by the final score and not by the actual writing. Our reviewers are encouraged to decide on the final score with the utmost responsibility and the score should be supported by the main text.
• As a specialist RPG site with an informed audience, we will endeavour to pay careful attention to the applicable RPG elements such as character creation, character development, dialogue, choices, consequences and so on. Emphasis should be on gameplay over graphics and “indie” titles should be taken in the context of their market.