Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[Lacrymas]

Well, FWIW Swen said in AMA (which was right before this reveal) that THEY "reamain non-fans of DLC."

Yeah, exactly. I read that when I was asking a few questions in the AMA and that's why I'm surprised they have DLC (and a very cynical one at that) for the EE.

 

[Ninjerk]

L

Yeah it's the same on every forum with a strong pack mentality. People use their join date & post count as some sort of hierachical scale. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

woosh

 

[Alienman]

"We hate dlcs but big bad Microsoft made us do it.... Buy our game!"

 

[Kem0sabe]

I very much doubt that console makers force games to have DLC, see wasteland 2 as a similar project and it's lack of dlc, maybe it's the publishers asking for it.

Anyways, it's a shitty move by larian, so was the pricing model for the enhanced edition on consoles.

 

[Lacrymas]

This whole console thing leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth. I respect Larian, I really do; they giving us the EE for free on PC and Swen's boundless enthusiasm for what he does are awesome things to see, and I'm not necessarily against them going to consoles, but blatantly going against what they've said countless times (if they aren't forced to include DLC) and Swen's admission that he recently games almost exclusively on consoles aren't that awesome. It would be very easy to go the route of designing for console from the very beginning, so they don't spend more time and money on porting over to console later. No matter what some people say, consolitis does dumb down games and the philosophy behind console development is incredibly different from designing for PC. DLC would just be the cherry on top.

 

[JasonNH]

It would be very easy to go the route of designing for console from the very beginning, so they don't spend more time and money on porting over to console later. No matter what some people say, consolitis does dumb down games and the philosophy behind console development is incredibly different from designing for PC. DLC would just be the cherry on top.

True, no one is immune to the pressures and attraction of mainstream success. However, I think DOS2 demonstrates that it doesn't have that kind of hold on Swen right now. He's still making games that he wants to play and doing it on PC precisely because he doesn't want it to be held back by limitations from the consoles. If the consoles can support his vision when it's done, that's great, but I don't see him sacrificing his passion for the sake of portability anytime soon. Of course, we'll see if that changes if the console sales take off when the EE comes out.

The DLC thing is a non-issue for me. They already did that before for the PC (Source Hunter DLC) in order to enable people who discovered the game after the Kickstarter to get some of the same items. Being their first foray into consoles, they don't have the same name brand or leverage that they do as a self-publishing PC developer. So they added a few trinkets to appease the publishers, big deal. So long as it never becomes a way to gate real content that should be in the game anyway, I couldn't care less.

 

[Lacrymas]

True, no one is immune to the pressures and attraction of mainstream success. However, I think DOS2 demonstrates that it doesn't have that kind of hold on Swen right now. He's still making games that he wants to play and doing it on PC precisely because he doesn't want it to be held back by limitations from the consoles. If the consoles can support his vision when it's done, that's great, but I don't see him sacrificing his passion for the sake of portability anytime soon. Of course, we'll see if that changes if the console sales take off when the EE comes out.

The DLC thing is a non-issue for me. They already did that before for the PC (Source Hunter DLC) in order to enable people who discovered the game after the Kickstarter to get some of the same items. Being their first foray into consoles, they don't have the same name brand or leverage that they do as a self-publishing PC developer. So they added a few trinkets to appease the publishers, big deal. So long as it never becomes a way to gate real content that should be in the game anyway, I couldn't care less.

If well-made RPGs become mainstream, I don't see anything bad about that :p Though we all know that won't happen. I hope you are right about the not dumbing down for consoles. It's not the DLC that is bothering me, but that they've said they are against DLC in general. If the publishers are forcing them to include DLC, that's so tragically funny I don't have words ;p This doesn't diminish my opinion of them in general, it just shouldn't be the start of a very, very bad trend.

 

[pakoito]

This whole console thing leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth. I respect Larian, I really do; they giving us the EE for free on PC and Swen's boundless enthusiasm for what he does are awesome things to see, and I'm not necessarily against them going to consoles, but blatantly going against what they've said countless times (if they aren't forced to include DLC) and Swen's admission that he recently games almost exclusively on consoles aren't that awesome. It would be very easy to go the route of designing for console from the very beginning, so they don't spend more time and money on porting over to console later. No matter what some people say, consolitis does dumb down games and the philosophy behind console development is incredibly different from designing for PC. DLC would just be the cherry on top.

Bunch of 15rs throwing shit around like they had any cred.

 

[Infinitron]

15rs? Try Yesterdayers.

 

[Lacrymas]

15rs? Try Yesterdayers.

Guilty as charged :p

 

[Kem0sabe]

True, no one is immune to the pressures and attraction of mainstream success. However, I think DOS2 demonstrates that it doesn't have that kind of hold on Swen right now. He's still making games that he wants to play and doing it on PC precisely because he doesn't want it to be held back by limitations from the consoles. If the consoles can support his vision when it's done, that's great, but I don't see him sacrificing his passion for the sake of portability anytime soon. Of course, we'll see if that changes if the console sales take off when the EE comes out.

The DLC thing is a non-issue for me. They already did that before for the PC (Source Hunter DLC) in order to enable people who discovered the game after the Kickstarter to get some of the same items. Being their first foray into consoles, they don't have the same name brand or leverage that they do as a self-publishing PC developer. So they added a few trinkets to appease the publishers, big deal. So long as it never becomes a way to gate real content that should be in the game anyway, I couldn't care less.

They are already diverting resources, man hours, money, into turning DOS2 more 'console friendly', even tho it hasn't been announced yet for consoles, the controller support, the Ui for it, the local mp.

When I read them saying that they might not add schedules and day cycles and then waste resources on shit like that...

 

[Lacrymas]

They are already diverting resources, man hours, money, into turning DOS2 more 'console friendly', even tho it hasn't been announced yet for consoles, the controller support, the Ui for it, the local mp.

When I read them saying that they might not add schedules and day cycles and then waste resources on shit like that...

To give them the benefit of the doubt: Those things are already done. They are building D:OS2 on the refined engine of the D:OS EE. They wouldn't need to extensively divert resources for console support. I do think I'm simply overreacting to the whole console thing and it wouldn't change their design philosophy or focus on the PC. That could also be my naivete speaking.

 

[JasonNH]

They are already diverting resources, man hours, money, into turning DOS2 more 'console friendly', even tho it hasn't been announced yet for consoles, the controller support, the Ui for it, the local mp.

When I read them saying that they might not add schedules and day cycles and then waste resources on shit like that...

Like Lacrymas said, that stuff is all built into the engine from the EE anyway, and was orders of magnitude easier to implement than re-inventing the original game to support day/night cycles and NPC schedules. For me personally, day/night cycles and NPC schedules rank higher than a number of other priorities Larian have chosen, but that discrepancy doesn't take away from the respect I have otherwise for the positive things they're doing. Seems like a huge lack of perspective for codexers to be getting bent out of shape over some of these things (yeah, I know, that's the codexian way).

 

[Kem0sabe]

Like Lacrymas said, that stuff is all built into the engine from the EE anyway, and was orders of magnitude easier to implement than re-inventing the original game to support day/night cycles and NPC schedules. For me personally, day/night cycles and NPC schedules rank higher than a number of other priorities Larian have chosen, but that discrepancy doesn't take away from the respect I have otherwise for the positive things they're doing. Seems like a huge lack of perspective for codexers to be getting bent out of shape over some of these things (yeah, I know, that's the codexian way).

They could have spent the time wasted on enhancing the original engine for console support, with improving other aspects of it. Do you really think that a 60 euro tb rpg on next gen, from a Belgian developer is going to achieve any significant sales? Larian wasted a lot of time on something that's clearly not going to sell, same for inxile and wasteland 2.

A lot of devs think that simply putting something on an Xbox or ps3 automatically means sales, but the reality is that there are a lot of failures on consoles.

 

[Arkeus]

They could have spent the time wasted on enhancing the original engine for console support, with improving other aspects of it. Do you really think that a 60 euro tb rpg on next gen, from a Belgian developer is going to achieve any significant sales? Larian wasted a lot of time on something that's clearly not going to sell, same for inxile and wasteland 2.

A lot of devs think that simply putting something on an Xbox or ps3 automatically means sales, but the reality is that there are a lot of failures on consoles.

This is why they do this for the EE- they wanted to do the EE anyway and use it as a better building base for D:OS2, and this means that they will see what kind of console sales they get.

As for the controller support/split-screen, there is something to be said about being able to play in co-op on the same computer with multiple people. I am glad they do this.

 

[Lacrymas]

He does have a point, though. I don't see a TB RPG selling very well on consoles, they simply have a different demographic. Oh sure, it will sell a bit, but not to the degree that it's worth the hassle. Or maybe it will explode and the huge mythical console-playing TB RPG fan-base will come out of their hiding, finally free from the oppression of the popamole.

 

[Volrath]

Nobody thought D:OS would sell a million copies on PC as well.

 

[Delterius]

JRPGs do very well on consoles.

 

[Lacrymas]

You also have a point. I guess we'll see where this thing goes, it will be interesting if nothing else.

 

[Kem0sabe]

JRPGs do very well on consoles.

Nobody thought D:OS would sell a million copies on PC as well.

D:OS is not a JRPG, not even close, the JRPG fanbase has been built by decades of releases from japanese devs and even then a lot of these titles arent even released in the west because the publishers dont deem the cost of localization to be worth it sales wise, except for a few choice series JRPG sales in the west are nothing to be excited about.

Also PC sales dont translate to console sales, different user bases, different demographics, different tastes.

 

[Lacrymas]

Though I don't know what JRPG fans like about JRPGs. D:OS is fairly far away from a typical JRPG, but if it strikes some of their fancies maybe it will sell. That's not very likely, of course, but we'll see.

 

[Athelas]

While the huge library of turn-based jRPG's on consoles doesn't ensure D:OS will be a success, it does indicate it's possible to attract a decently sized audience that's into turn-based RPG's even in this day and age. Especially since those games attracted that audience despite being burdened with slow animation speeds and cumbersome interfaces (i.e. the 'it's slow and boring' criticism that is frequently leveled against turn-based games).

 

[Delterius]

D:OS is not a JRPG, not even close, the JRPG fanbase has been built by decades of releases from japanese devs and even then a lot of these titles arent even released in the west because the publishers dont deem the cost of localization to be worth it sales wise, except for a few choice series JRPG sales in the west are nothing to be excited about.

Also PC sales dont translate to console sales, different user bases, different demographics, different tastes.

Fact is that D:OS has local multiplayer. This is quite important as far as consoles go, especially since local multiplayer was quietly phased out in the last two gens in favor of internet play. Only Nintendo is really fulfilling that niche. What JRPGs are is an example of a genre with multiple turn based franchises that still carve their own niche. Of course Larian has the possibility of cultivating a loyal enough customer base. If anything, the only impediment should be Sony and Microsoft's heavy handed version of digital distribution.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Fact is that D:OS has local multiplayer. This is quite important as far as consoles go, especially since local multiplayer was quietly phased out in the last two gens in favor of internet play. Only Nintendo is really fulfilling that niche. What JRPGs are is an example of a genre with multiple turn based franchises that still carve their own niche. Of course Larian has the possibility of cultivating a loyal enough customer base. If anything, the only impediment should be Sony and Microsoft's heavy handed version of digital distribution.

Tb rpgs on consoles are even more niche than jrpg, not even nippon ichi feels that there is a huge western market for their tb rpgs, even in Japan they only managed to push little more than 20k sales of the latest disgea in the first week of release.

There's a reason most jrpg até moving away from tb and into rt or semi rt systems, the player base on consoles want that transition.

Also local co-op is a miniscule minority outside of sports games and Nintendo party games, if it translates in a couple of hundred sales on consoles I would be amazed.

Larians market is the pc, there's little to gain from trying their hand at the console market.

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

Local co-op stopped happening @ the 3rd gen consoles. It's a long unitched need. I'm pretty sure it will sell well. I for one haven't seen or played a good couch co-op game since the PS2 era, with games like BG:DA(2), and Champions of Norrath(2).