Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[Prime Junta]

Moar impressions.

The combat really is good. There's a lot of stuff to do, and the enemies don't pull their punches. What I don't like about it is that it's not possible to pre-position -- when the "FIGHT!" thing lights up, everybody snaps into formation more or less where they were. So for example I can't go invisible with my rogue, sneak her in the back, then pull the group with the rest of my guys. And I still don't care for those cooldowns.

The procedural and leveled loot is increasingly grating. It's become a matter of "oh, leveled up, let's see if I already have some next-level gear, no, rats, must craft some." It starts out as instant-gratification but then becomes a grind and a chore; there's not a whole lot of satisfaction in finding a piece of kit when you know you're only gonna keep it for a level or, tops, two, and that there'll be more of the same awaiting. And because procedural, it's just really bland. Knobbed Goblin Dildo of Slickness etcetera.

I'm also getting a little disappointed in the worldbuilding. As in, there actually doesn't seem to be much there. It feels like a theme park, with no breadth or depth to it. I'm not missing Obsidianite loredumps, mind, but it's as if the world outside Cyseal just doesn't exist for most people. Who sent those legionaries? Who do they answer to? Who made Cecil mayor? Where does the vegetable seller get his vegetables when all the farms outside are overrun by undead? Why is everything so bloody normal inside Cyseal's walls although the place is under desperate siege by unnatural undead? How come it always rains in one corner of the map, and shifts to sunshine the minute you step inside the walls? If it's magic, how come nobody comments on it?

I get that this is supposed to be a light-hearted you're-the-chosen-one-now-go-save-the-world romp, BG1 style, but Baldur's Gate 1 had a livelier-feeling world than this. The iron crisis was a thing. It was worrying people. They commented on the roads being unsafe.

I.e., I'm starting to feel that beyond the very well-crafted models and environments and excellent combat, there's really not all that much there there. And I did enjoy Battle Brothers combat even more.

We will see if this changes as I get further into it.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Prime Junta]

There are formations. You can notice that your portraits are chained. If any character from chain is spotted then whole group enters fight. If you unchain rogue he wont start - you will be free to get behind and get into fight by throwing grenade, after which action you will be inserted into sequence.

Ha! Thanks, I must have done something wrong when I thought I tried this in one fight. Will do so again. I have experimented with formations but they seem kinda useless so far at least.

 

[Roguey]

How come it always rains in one corner of the map, and shifts to sunshine the minute you step inside the walls? If it's magic, how come nobody comments on it?

They wanted it to be rainy there for mood purposes. Dynamic weather required too much effort.

 

[t]

Yeah, the world in DoS is a total comic book fantasy with no real insight or thought. Good dungeon crawler though.

 

[Raghar]

I'm also getting a little disappointed in the worldbuilding. As in, there actually doesn't seem to be much there. It feels like a theme park, with no breadth or depth to it. I'm not missing Obsidianite loredumps, mind, but it's as if the world outside Cyseal just doesn't exist for most people.

They are small backwater country that doesn't exist for majority of poeple around.

Who sent those legionaries?

That captain really hates source hunters because they are screwing up his hated life in a backwater province, when a person with his brain and talent could be in politic in capital and get to high position. Now he's fucked. How can he get something thet he would get a renown for?

Actually he wouldn't tell you this, but his suobordinate which is responsible and do work even when she has less braipower than him, she does it responsibly and reliably, would tell you about legionaries, but she didn't have that dialogue option.

Who do they answer to?

Nobody knows, but they all wanna run away from backwater province full of undead who are doing nothing aside of being in the countryside and playing with building and left out equipment. (Which is probably why farmers hate them.)

Who made Cecil mayor?

If you did that play in the theater, it would be extremely clear.

I actually thought, when we give him that staff, he would become lich, but he's so forgetful he would forget his villainity in the process, and stay as nice trusty major.

Where does the vegetable seller get his vegetables when all the farms outside are overrun by undead?

Actually you should watch this. This explains it perfectly.

Spoiler

I though these nice undead in the east allows him to grow it there. There was only that Baron with his wife.

Why is everything so bloody normal inside Cyseal's walls although the place is under desperate siege by unnatural undead?

I wonder.

How come it always rains in one corner of the map, and shifts to sunshine the minute you step inside the walls?

Because these are really large regions that are just shown as a smaller areas. Each region has it's own weather.

 

[buru5]

On my first playthrough I didn't craft a single weapon or piece of armor, just potions sometimes. I've found that crafting weapons/armor is completely unnecessary in regards to beating the game, so feeling as if you need to upgrade your weapons every level via crafting is just a self-imposed problem. I wouldn't say it's a flaw at all.

In regards to the theme park criticism, I'd agree. It seems like there's not much replayability, other than wanting to experiment with different character builds and whatnot. Although I appreciate the fact that there are usually a few ways to compete every problem in the game, the quest design and decision making is mostly straight forward. I would have liked some more options in regards to be villainous, like when you get caught stealing. You usually end up with guards on you and a broken game. It should give you the option to be thrown in jail or something instead.

 

[Prime Junta]

On my first playthrough I didn't craft a single weapon or piece of armor, just potions sometimes. I've found that crafting weapons/armor is completely unnecessary in regards to beating the game, so feeling as if you need to upgrade your weapons every level via crafting is just a self-imposed problem. I wouldn't say it's a flaw at all.

Crafting isn't the problem. The short shelf life of loot is. Craft or find, you will want to swap out your loot every time you level. That's grindy.

 

[buru5]

Crafting isn't the problem. The short shelf life of loot is. Craft or find, you will want to swap out your loot every time you level. That's grindy.

That's not a problem though. Like I said, this is self-imposed. I was using the same staff on my mage for 10 levels, the same mace on my paladin every 5 levels or so, the same spear on my warrior for about 4 levels before switch, etc. This was because I did not craft and did not purchase new weapons, just used what I found as I played the game. You absolutely do not have to upgrade your weapons (or armor even) every level to succeed, that's just false.

 

[Grunker]

On my first playthrough I didn't craft a single weapon or piece of armor, just potions sometimes. I've found that crafting weapons/armor is completely unnecessary in regards to beating the game, so feeling as if you need to upgrade your weapons every level via crafting is just a self-imposed problem. I wouldn't say it's a flaw at all.

Crafting isn't the problem. The short shelf life of loot is. Craft or find, you will want to swap out your loot every time you level. That's grindy.

Eh, IMO there's just bad itemization. Lack of unique effects, loot switching is a problem not a choice (i.e. upgrades are easy to identify, you're rarely picking between two very distinct effects that can't be measured numerically) and progression is binary and so on.

 

[Prime Junta]

That's not a problem though. Like I said, this is self-imposed. I was using the same staff on my mage for 10 levels, the same mace on my paladin every 5 levels or so, the same spear on my warrior for about 4 levels before switch, etc. This was because I did not craft and did not purchase new weapons, just used what I found as I played the game. You absolutely do not have to upgrade your weapons (or armor even) every level to succeed, that's just false.

Sure, you can gimp yourself if you want. I'm sure it's possible to finish the game without ever using any of your level-up points either. So what?

 

[buru5]

Sure, you can gimp yourself if you want. I'm sure it's possible to finish the game without ever using any of your level-up points either. So what?

You're trying to trivialize my point, as if I had to use gimmicks to win or something because I was so "gimped", I may have done slightly less damage but the point is I was still able to beat the game without much hassle. There's a difference between a grind to actually make the game beatable (some jrpgs are known for this) and a choice grind where you put self-imposed rules upon yourself ("I have to upgrade my equipment every level!"), the later you can do in most any rpg (or any genre really) and since it's not necessary to actually do well in the game it's an irrelevant criticism, almost like you're making up something to nitpick just for the sake of doing it.

 

[Prime Junta]

You're trying to trivialize my point, as if I had to use gimmicks to win or something because I was so "gimped", I may have done slightly less damage but the point is I was still able to beat the game without much hassle. There's a difference between a grind to actually make the game beatable (some jrpgs are known for this) and a choice grind where you put self-imposed rules upon yourself ("I have to upgrade my equipment every level!"), the later you can do in most any rpg (or any genre really) and since it's not necessary to actually do well in the game it's an irrelevant criticism, almost like you're making up something to nitpick just for the sake of doing it.

If you were able to easily beat the game without bothering to fully use the tools it gave you, it just means that the game was rather easy.

It has leveled loot. It punishes you for using weapons of the wrong level. If you want to avoid the punishment, you trade up whenever possible, either to something you found or by crafting something yourself. This becomes rote and a grind. I didn't like it in Dragon Age, I don't like it here.

tl;dr level-locked loot is bad

 

[buru5]

If you were able to easily beat the game without bothering to fully use the tools it gave you, it just means that the game was rather easy.

It has leveled loot. It punishes you for using weapons of the wrong level. If you want to avoid the punishment, you trade up whenever possible, either to something you found or by crafting something yourself. This becomes rote and a grind. I didn't like it in Dragon Age, I don't like it here.

tl;dr level-locked loot is bad

Then is every game just really easy? If I don't bother to min-max every game I'm simply not using all the tools fully, right? What a great line of logic you got there.

Leveled loot? That wasn't even the point I was addressing, you're simply moving the goal post now. The point I was addressing was your self-imposed "have to upgrade every level" becoming a grind and how that's not a valid criticism. Leveled loot has nothing to do with that. I recall finding a level 14 mace when I was level 12 so it's not like the game doesnt give you this shit sometimes and simply expects to make everything, and yeah that would be a problem if that problem actually existed, which it doesn't, because you do not need to upgrade every level.

Your ability to accurately review RPGs is extremely suspect.

 

[Prime Junta]

Then is every game just really easy? If I don't bother to min-max every game I'm simply not using all the tools fully, right? What a great line of logic you got there.

Most of 'em are actually.

Leveled loot? That wasn't even the point I was addressing, you're simply moving the goal post now. The point I was addressing was your self-imposed "have to upgrade every level" becoming a grind and how that's not a valid criticism. Leveled loot has nothing to do with that.

Nope, if you have leveled loot, it automatically creates an upgrade grind. If you ignore it, you're playing badly -- just as if you were, say, neglecting to put skill points in things, or neglecting to buy skill books to upgrade your skills.

I recall finding a level 14 mace when I was level 12 so it's not like the game doesnt give you this shit sometimes and simply expects to make everything, and yeah that would be a problem if that problem actually existed, which it doesn't, because you do not need to upgrade every level.

By "upgrade" I meant "swap a lower-level item out for a higher-level one by whatever means available." A lot of the time you find shit. Some of the time you don't. Either way you discard what you just had and trade it in for something shinier. That's rote and grindy.

Your ability to accurately review RPGs is extremely suspect.

 

[Roguey]

No RPG is designed with the expectation that you keep your numbers as high as they can possibly go at all times.

 

[Darth Roxor]

On my first playthrough I didn't craft a single weapon or piece of armor, just potions sometimes. I've found that crafting weapons/armor is completely unnecessary in regards to beating the game, so feeling as if you need to upgrade your weapons every level via crafting is just a self-imposed problem. I wouldn't say it's a flaw at all.

On my first playthrough, before the EE, I also didn't craft anything, not even potions. And while I can confirm that it was completely unnecessary for most of the game, it was near-necessary for the final fight.

I played thru it with a friend, and the dragon kept wiping us over and over and over and over again, until we resorted to maximum cheese and spammed him with disease/drain/whatever scrolls at turn 1 to get him down to 1/3 hp from all the stacked max hp debuffs. Yet even after that it was STILL a lottery because the fucker would still be able to just keep rampaging with turbo AoE attacks and melt our faces.

When I raegd about this on the 'dex, I remember the first answers I got were "wait you mean you don't have 150% resistances to everything lololololo have you not been craftung OP gear?!"


On the other hand, now that the dragon got nerfed to the ground in the EE, this is no longer true. Because we played through it again with the EE, again didn't use any crafting... and this time we murdered the dragon on first try because it was so pathetic

 

[Grunker]

^ I never finished my original playthrough so I only got to fight the dragon on the EE, and it was piss easy. What a pity. OS could really use a PotD-like difficulty.

 

[Roguey]

I never crafted at all and I beat the Void Dragon on my first try on hard with Original Sin Original Recipe.

I vaguely recall using the old lady fighter as a tank and boosting her resistances with spells.

OS could really use a PotD-like difficulty.

This is what tactician mode was supposed to be in theory.

Spoiler

Tactician Specific
- At the Cyseal Abandoned House, the archer has Nether Swap.
- At the Cyseal west gate, there are two extra enemies: bolt-stricken zombies.
- Bibius and Junius get help from their dog Tuesday. Junius has an oil grenade and
Bibius has a Nailbomb.
- In the dog ambush fight near the trapdoor, AI has extra skills and a grenade.
- In the fields near the West gate, archers will target bloated corpses.
- In the fields near the West gate, there's an extra Waterproof Exploskeleton.
- In the tunnel underneath the small graveyard in Cyseal, 2 Exploskeletons spawn
behind the player in the easy fight.
- In the tunnel underneath the small graveyard in Cyseal, the Scorcher has an Ethereal
Soles shout and Purify.
- Near the zombie carriage, a pitch dark tunnel was added.
- Ragequin can create scorching surfaces and his ghost can use Blitz Bolt. His archers
have special arrows.
- The AI in the orc landing fight in Cyseal can make the barrels explode.
- The false Source Hunters in the mirror dungeon fight have summon skills.
- The Lighthouse fight has a Ward protecting the ghoul.
- The orc landing fight in Cyseal has 2 extra cultists.
- The second fight of the Wulfram escort quest has become a lot tougher: extra archers
with special arrows and an extra Decapitator.
- THe skeleton ambush
- THe Undead Pyromancer west of Cyseal has one more fire summon and some extra
skills.
- Toxa and Sheba have Crawling Infestation.
- Toxa and Sheba may inflict Disease to melee attackers.
- Tutorial fight in Cyseal has 2 more archers, one of them has a special arrow. Lieutenant has grenade.
- Undead encounter north of Cyseal, the priest removes healing and shields and casts
ethereal soles on his party
- Second undead encounter north of Cyseal, 2 extra archers spawn when a boar dies.
One mage can cast an arcane vortex that gives elemental immunity to all, and that
teleports enemies.
- The enemies in the sparkmaster fight have different locations
- The sparkmaster can fire missiles that will fall on target after one turn.
- The seaside thugs are joined by a Summoner that can summon a nether jester.
- Dietmar casts wind walker on himself which teleports him every time he's hit with
melee.
- Sand golems don't die after 3-4 turns but after 6-8 turns
- Bellegar can use mark of death and shackles of pain
- Evelyn fight is joined by 3 orc rangers and a shaman that spawn at the cave entrance.
- The Aenemic cultists can summon a slug.
- The Aenemic cultists are not weakened
- The Aenemic cultists can heal at a blood altar
- Evelyn casts shackles of pain28
- The shaman at the Black Cove entrance has a fire aura
- Grulbarg starts the fight with Dark Avenger
- We gave Lady Anna an Initiative Aura and an Iron Ward.
- Diederik has a Banish Summon skill
- The wolves to the East of Cyseal have a Decaying Touch debuff. Also added Curse and
Purifying shout.
- The undead fight north of the wolves, added Poisonous Mushrooms around the area
that archers can shoot if the player is standing too close to them. One of the archers
on the bridge also has a Molotov Grenade
- In the charred undead fight, gave the Knight and the Pikeman Cluster Bomb
Grenades. Added 2 Pike men.
- In the second charred undead fight, one of the Charred-Bone Footmen can use the
Summon Arcane Vortex skill
- In the third charred undead fight, the knight has a remorse skill
- In the fourth charred undead fight, the archer can summon a spitfire totem
- The executioner that is helping out the Twins by fire joined can use purifying fire to
clear healing and shields.
- Added explosive corpses near the Incandescent Wanderer
- The Zombie troll in Cyseal can summon a slug
- In the graveyard in Cyseal, the madman also summons waterproof exploskeletons
- In the graveyard in Cyseal, the madman can shoot oil and ooze barrels
- Added a soul of desperation to the graveyard in Cyseal
- One of the stone guardians has shattered stone
- In the cathedral in Cyseal, five more cultists join the fight after one turn.
- Braccus creates 3 Protection Crystals that make him invulnerable as long as one of
them is still active
- In the orc and skeleton fight in the Black Cove, the shaman has a fire ward.
- In the orc and skeleton fight in the Black Cove, 2 archers and 2 mages join the fight
from the little room but can be aggro'd before this fight.
- The source abomination has banish summon and haste.
- The burrowed crabs in Black Cove are joined by an Angry Chest.
- The burrowed crabs encounter in Black Cove now has a crab mound that generates a
crab per turn.
- The burrowed crabs encounter in Black Cove spawns 2 exploskeletons when the
archers are dead
- Pontius can teleport barrels directly onto the player & can cast Ethereal Soles
- Pontius is joined by an angry chest on the pier.
- THe Source Nightmare boss of Black Cove (spider) has the Crawling Infestation skill
- During the flower fight in Luculla, a Shambling Oak spawns on turn 2
- In Luculla, the Blood Wasps have the Decaying Touch debuff
- During the Bjorn Escort, a cutthroat has nail grenades
- Every student in the student group north of Luculla can summon something
- The orc slavers in Luculla will use Haste and rage, and earth shield
- The immaculate guards north of Luculla have molotov and mustard gas grenades
- The drunk goblins of Luculla are not drunk
- One of the drunk goblins of Luculla has a water ward9
- One of the plants near the drunk goblins of Luculla has an earth ward
- Grumble can hasten himself and use Rage
- Fumbla has an Air ward
- Added void crystals near the shadow summoner in Luculla
- The Whisperer in the shadow summoner encounter in Luculla has iron command
- The second shadow summoner encounter summons 5 spiders and can use banish
summon
- The orc buddies in Luculla are joined by a Shaman with a Liquid Stone skill
- In the Luculla cave, the aeromancer has a banish summon skill
- In the Luculla cave, 2 flame champions spawn in the pyromaniac fight
- In the animal slaughter encounter in the Luculla cave, the necromancer will charm
your strongest party member
- Vaelanna can summon earth elementals
- Garkulda's shaman can banish summons
- Near the Luculla bridges near the mines, the first group has a shaman with a fire aura
- Near the Luculla bridges near the mines, the first group has a ranger that can
summon slugs
- Near the Luculla bridges near the mines, the sleeping goblin group has an Iron Ward
is hidden behind the northern barricade
- Near the Luculla bridges near the mines, the third group has an extra archer and the
mystic can use nether swap
- Near the Luculla bridges near the mine entrance, the ranger has grenades
- At the bridge to the barren lands, the Immaculate Duelist has the Mark of Death skill
- The first spider group in the barren lands have Helping Hand
- The spider ambush in Luculla has bloated corpses
- The Spider Queen can now weave a web of poison
- Meleeing woebringer in the trials may inflict stunned
- Archibald has the Delayed Explosion ability
- Loic can summon Nether Jester
- Loic can cast Invulnerable on himself
- A soul of desperation was added to the Attenberah fight
- Sadakandras can cast Mark Of Death
- Kromkromkris has an Earthquake Grenade & a Disease Grenade
- The Immaculate Teacher can cast Iron Ward and Consume Life Force
- In the Mangoth intro fight, the poison demon uses Bless and the fire demon uses
Summon Spitfire Totem
- In the Librarian fight in Luculla, we gave Banish Summon to Ulka Word-Carver&
Mark of Death to Arros Frozen-Page.
- In the Troll King fight, an Air Ward is present
- We gave the Rafflesia the Remorse skill
- Maradino can cast the Invulnerability skill
- In the Doom Immaculate fight, the air mage can summon an Arcane Vortex
- In the Doom Immaculate fight, the Enchanter can summon a Floating Enchanted
Armor
- THe Void Shepherd can cast Windwalker and Consume Life Force
- Jareth can cast Haste
- Jaline can cast Mark Of Death and Finger Of Death0
- Kaden has grenades
- In Hiberheim, more robot rats spawn when you kill one of the alphas
- The Mecha Roosters in Hiberheim can use Metal Rain
- In Hiberheim, a group of Ice enemies patrols the area
- THe wolfmaster near the demon gate in Hiberheim has fire immunity and his friends
have grenades.
- THe wolf ambush in Hiberheim has a fire ward
- When Boreas changes seasons, he also summons the corresponding Elemental Ward.
Good luck with that.
- In the mud huntresses encounter in dark forest, one has crawling infestation
- Bruil has grenades
- We added bloated corpses to the lost explorer campsite
- Baeltog has grenades and the cartographer can cast Banish Summon
- Raalzen Ax'axaroth has purifying fire
- In the Dark forest spider ambush, three spiders will use decaying touch
- The Rat King has consume life force and his friends have extra skills too
- Hitting Cassandra with melee curses
- Norok can use a Demoralizing shout
- Weresheep have mass weakness
- Imal can cast Purifying Tide
- The Void Knights in the Leandra fight can use Banish Summon
- In the void dragon fight, a void widow spawns every 2 turns

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm... bored. And I'm not sure why. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with this -- on the contrary, the combat is good, the encounters are varied, and so on and so forth. I have those little complaints like the crappy procedurally-generated leveled loot and general overabundance of everything and the incredibly frustrating spell targeting system -- a fireball is as good as useless if I can't put it where I want it, and a little tiny bump in the ground is often enough to stop me doing that -- but... I just can't get into it. I'm ticking off things from a list without really giving a shit.

Could be the wrong time or wrong frame of mind for it. Maybe I'm just burned out on this sort of thing. Or it could be that I'm not able to swallow the theme-parkness of the thing; the game isn't even pretending that the maps are anything other than challenges or puzzles made for my benefit.

 

[Grunker]

Eh, you just got to the bit where it starts being underdesigned probably. The content in the last half is much more underwhelming than the first half, like I said.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Prime Junta]

Did any of you beat the Cyseal final boss fight without taking a casualty?

Spoiler

That opening fireball attack is, uh, problematic. Obliterated my party in the opening on the first try. I beat it pretty easily on the second by offering up a sacrificial lamb who took the hit, then I resurrected her, and then did the actual fight. I couldn't figure out any way to fireproof that sacrificial lamb anywhere close enough that she'd survive the barrage. Thought it was a bit cheesy both ways (his opening salvo and my way of dealing with it).

 

[Roguey]

Did any of you beat the Cyseal final boss fight without taking a casualty?

Spoiler

That opening fireball attack is, uh, problematic. Obliterated my party in the opening on the first try. I beat it pretty easily on the second by offering up a sacrificial lamb who took the hit, then I resurrected her, and then did the actual fight. I couldn't figure out any way to fireproof that sacrificial lamb anywhere close enough that she'd survive the barrage. Thought it was a bit cheesy both ways (his opening salvo and my way of dealing with it).

Can't remember if it was possible to buy scrolls of fire shield that early in the game, but stacking that and a potion of fire resistance with any fire resistant gear you can find/buy seems like it'd be enough to me.

 

[Iznaliu]

Did any of you beat the Cyseal final boss fight without taking a casualty?

You can game the attack by moving into the right position, or offering up a summon as a sacrifice.