Divinity: Original Sin Pre-Release Thread

[Mangoose]

I find your lack of consistency disturbing.

Roguey is incredibly consistent: whatever Sawyer says is what she's going to present as her beliefs. This is also why paying attention/arguing with her is utterly pointless. You're arguing in proxy with Sawyer, who isn't even aware/doesn't care.

Perhaps this is because... Roguey is really Sawyer?

Dun dun DUUUUUN.

Please. That implies Roguey actually understands Sawyer's ideas on a complete level, not just in terms of words-being-strung-together. If anything, Roguey does a great job of misinterpreting Sawyer and making him sound like an asshat.

Guess who used to converse with Sawyer before Roguey did? Guess who's not going to brag about it wherever he goes?

 

[Stabwound]

Paraphrasing Swen in a recent video, the guy recreated the entire beginning area, including town and dungeon, NPCs and scripts in a week which took actually months to do in the original Divine Divinity. Sounds like it's an incredibly quick and efficient editor.

 

[Angthoron]

I find your lack of consistency disturbing.

Roguey is incredibly consistent: whatever Sawyer says is what she's going to present as her beliefs. This is also why paying attention/arguing with her is utterly pointless. You're arguing in proxy with Sawyer, who isn't even aware/doesn't care.

Perhaps this is because... Roguey is really Sawyer?

Dun dun DUUUUUN.

Please. That implies Roguey actually understands Sawyer's ideas on a complete level, not just in terms of words-being-strung-together. If anything, Roguey does a great job of misinterpreting Sawyer and making him sound like an asshat.

Guess who used to converse with Sawyer before Roguey did? Guess who's not going to brag about it wherever he goes?

Why isn't that person doing it anymore?

 

[evdk]

Please. That implies Roguey actually understands Sawyer's ideas on a complete level, not just in terms of words-being-strung-together. If anything, Roguey does a great job of misinterpreting Sawyer and making him sound like an asshat.

Guess who used to converse with Sawyer before Roguey did? Guess who's not going to brag about it wherever he goes?

Infinitron?

Also I doubt Roguey actually converses with Sawyer outside of the realms of imagination.

 

[deamento]

Paraphrasing Swen in a recent video, the guy recreated the entire beginning area, including town and dungeon, NPCs and scripts in a week which took actually months to do in the original Divine Divinity. Sounds like it's an incredibly quick and efficient editor.

it should be, swen said that this is what they use to make their game

 

[Roguey]

How obnoxious, that I can't go to the store at 4am.

This is an acceptable abstraction. Plus I've done some early morning shopping myself in the past, there's something soothing about all the emptiness and quiet.

Please. That implies Roguey actually understands Sawyer's ideas on a complete level, not just in terms of words-being-strung-together. If anything, Roguey does a great job of misinterpreting Sawyer and making him sound like an asshat.

The quotes in my sig are his unaltered words. Plus read http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/3/entry-68-clarity-of-purpose-in-system-design/ and realize that Larian is full of inelegance.

 

[Mangoose]

I find your lack of consistency disturbing.

Roguey is incredibly consistent: whatever Sawyer says is what she's going to present as her beliefs. This is also why paying attention/arguing with her is utterly pointless. You're arguing in proxy with Sawyer, who isn't even aware/doesn't care.

Perhaps this is because... Roguey is really Sawyer?

Dun dun DUUUUUN.

Please. That implies Roguey actually understands Sawyer's ideas on a complete level, not just in terms of words-being-strung-together. If anything, Roguey does a great job of misinterpreting Sawyer and making him sound like an asshat.

Guess who used to converse with Sawyer before Roguey did? Guess who's not going to brag about it wherever he goes?

Why isn't that person doing it anymore?

Well eventually his Formspring blew up and it wasn't as convenient. And I'm not that much of a fanboy to only want to get insight from one developer.

 

[Infinitron]

His Formspring is still alive and well bro. I ask him questions regularly.

 

[Jaesun]

Well, I can see a proper remake of U7 or IE games on Larian's new engine

There is the problem of only 4 party members and 2 summons though (6 total). You COULD do Serpent Isle (4 party members) but The Black gate had up to 8 (if you knew how to do that) *cough*. Still, 4 party members might still work out fine, other wise with a large party the combat would just take too long. Which I *assume* they made this party number decision on.

 

[Havoc]

Is the party size hardcoded? Can it be easily changed in the editor?

 

[Jaesun]

Is the party size hardcoded? Can it be easily changed in the editor?

We don't know yet.

 

[Zeriel]

There's nothing inconsistent here. I don't care about NPC schedules when they're not obnoxious. I'm expecting obnoxiousness from Larian, given their track record of doing things well.

Yes. That's what I said. You _are_ consistent--but like I said, utterly pointless trying to discuss things with you since we're not really discussing them with you, we're discussing them with Sawyer.

 

[SCO]

If a dev can take the easy way out (easy especially in AI scripts, that if variable max party members would have to have at least a 'for all members of X' operator; instead of 'party member 1 entity, etc until a fixed number), they will normally take it.

The root cause of this crap is fixed-size at creation data-structures that bubble up into the upper abstraction on the scripts.
Max 4 party members -> 'efficiency' focused dev -> craps out a NPC[4] array -> scripts can only address 4 party members (and often they may be null lol).
Also forget variable numbers if the scripts they are creating are already following the pc1, pc2, pc3 style; since they'd have to be reworked for a truly generic number of party members.

 

[Zeriel]

That said, "world" does encapsulate one massive difference between NWN 1 & 2 and D:OS. The area size. Neverwinter areas are fairly small even at the max size, and the max size with lots of placeables (esp trees) quickly starts behaving erratically, either corrupting itself in the toolset or not running properly or well in-game. At least as far as size goes, D:OS areas are massive and fairly contiguous. We'll have to see what it's capable of in terms of highly dense placeables and vegetation.

Except, placeables and vegetation are again, superficial shit. If I wanted to explore a world with custom non-gameplay-effecting (relative to, say, a NWN module)combat, I've got TES and ARMA. What I am looking forward to is custom crafted content on a high level, where I feel like I'm almost playing a new game, rather than the same game with shit added on.

In other words, "world" is not a massive difference from NWN to D:OS - it is a technical large difference, but in terms of the realm of gameplay, it is not significant compared to all the scripting, writing, and all else that you can do with NWN modules and hopefully DOS.

I feel a little strange, since you're sort of arguing the same sort of thing I would. I'm all about branching dialogues, good scripting, et cetera. NWN had decent dialogue and scripting systems, though, its main flaws were terrible combat (which is the majority of meaty gameplay in CRPGs) and the aforementioned area design issues. Incidentally, aesthetics do matter. People may occasionally pretend otherwise here, but amazing dialogues with tons of non-linear scripted elements in an open world that is just a series of ugly, sterile environments with no attempt to make things work aesthetically just don't pass muster. You need all the elements working together to pull people in, for that buzz-word immersion.

That said, the main thing that has me excited for D:OS is the turn-based combat. NWN already had fairly decent texturing tools, lots of customizability, good dialogue systems, et cetera. Its combat just made it a chore to play any module, though.

 

[deamento]

That said, "world" does encapsulate one massive difference between NWN 1 & 2 and D:OS. The area size. Neverwinter areas are fairly small even at the max size, and the max size with lots of placeables (esp trees) quickly starts behaving erratically, either corrupting itself in the toolset or not running properly or well in-game. At least as far as size goes, D:OS areas are massive and fairly contiguous. We'll have to see what it's capable of in terms of highly dense placeables and vegetation.

Except, placeables and vegetation are again, superficial shit. If I wanted to explore a world with custom non-gameplay-effecting (relative to, say, a NWN module)combat, I've got TES and ARMA. What I am looking forward to is custom crafted content on a high level, where I feel like I'm almost playing a new game, rather than the same game with shit added on.

In other words, "world" is not a massive difference from NWN to D:OS - it is a technical large difference, but in terms of the realm of gameplay, it is not significant compared to all the scripting, writing, and all else that you can do with NWN modules and hopefully DOS.

I feel a little strange, since you're sort of arguing the same sort of thing I would. I'm all about branching dialogues, good scripting, et cetera. NWN had decent dialogue and scripting systems, though, it's main flaws were terrible combat (which is the majority of meaty gameplay in CRPGs) and the aforementioned area design issues. Incidentally, aesthetics do matter. People may occasionally pretend otherwise here, but amazing dialogues with tons of non-linear scripted elements in an open world that is just a series of ugly, sterile environments with no attempt to make things work aesthetically just don't pass muster. You need all the elements working together to pull people in, for that buzz-word immersion.

you are 100% correct, this is the main problem i encounter with deus ex, i try to play it but the game is just too ugly for me to continue.
i don't give two shits about graphics but if the aesthetic of a game is horrible, i'm hard pressed to continue playing it

 

[Kirtai]

Sounds like it's an incredibly quick and efficient editor.

Especially since it's more likely we'll get the whole thing as opposed to the gutted versions that Bethesda release.

 

[Mangoose]

His Formspring is still alive and well bro. I ask him questions regularly.

Yeah I meant that he started getting so many questions that mine started going unanswered lol. But that's cool. I'm neither staff nor Obisdi-fanboy so I talked to him enough, got some interesting insights. I also deleted him from my Facebook friends list lol.

I feel a little strange, since you're sort of arguing the same sort of thing I would. I'm all about branching dialogues, good scripting, et cetera. NWN had decent dialogue and scripting systems, though, its main flaws were terrible combat (which is the majority of meaty gameplay in CRPGs) and the aforementioned area design issues. Incidentally, aesthetics do matter. People may occasionally pretend otherwise here, but amazing dialogues with tons of non-linear scripted elements in an open world that is just a series of ugly, sterile environments with no attempt to make things work aesthetically just don't pass muster. You need all the elements working together to pull people in, for that buzz-word immersion.

Well, yes there are graphics whores around, but to me, graphics are only good for making gameplay work. To me, it's not so much good or bad graphics that bother me, but old more pixellated graphics, clunky interface, or the like that make it cumbersome to interface with the game. I actually prefer NWN over more graphically advanced games, because the simple 3D in NWN made it easy to distinguish between objects and units and characters, the interface was good, etc. The only reason I am not playing NWN still is, as you say, the combat system.

That's not to say I don't appreciate graphics (I recently bought a 3D monitor, after all). But graphics - in terms of improving immersion - are just icing on the cake.

 

[Infinitron]

Is the party size hardcoded? Can it be easily changed in the editor?

ForkTong

 

[Tigranes]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere early that you could do 6-party in a custom campaign.

 

[Jaesun]

You could probably do 6 if you remove summons.

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah I meant that he started getting so many questions that mine started going unanswered lol. But that's cool. I'm neither staff nor Obisdi-fanboy so I talked to him enough, got some interesting insights. I also deleted him from my Facebook friends list lol.


Well, yes there are graphics whores around, but to me, graphics are only good for making gameplay work. To me, it's not so much good or bad graphics that bother me, but old more pixellated graphics, clunky interface, or the like that make it cumbersome to interface with the game. I actually prefer NWN over more graphically advanced games, because the simple 3D in NWN made it easy to distinguish between objects and units and characters, the interface was good, etc. The only reason I am not playing NWN still is, as you say, the combat system.

That's not to say I don't appreciate graphics (I recently bought a 3D monitor, after all). But graphics - in terms of improving immersion - are just icing on the cake.

You're misunderstanding me--aesthetics and area design are not the same thing as graphics. I'm talking about the use of those art assets, filling an area with all the fine details (dense forest with lots of mixed texturing and placeables, for instance) that make it come alive, regardless of whether the base art is terrible or amazing.

 

[Mangoose]

Yeah I meant that he started getting so many questions that mine started going unanswered lol. But that's cool. I'm neither staff nor Obisdi-fanboy so I talked to him enough, got some interesting insights. I also deleted him from my Facebook friends list lol.


Well, yes there are graphics whores around, but to me, graphics are only good for making gameplay work. To me, it's not so much good or bad graphics that bother me, but old more pixellated graphics, clunky interface, or the like that make it cumbersome to interface with the game. I actually prefer NWN over more graphically advanced games, because the simple 3D in NWN made it easy to distinguish between objects and units and characters, the interface was good, etc. The only reason I am not playing NWN still is, as you say, the combat system.

That's not to say I don't appreciate graphics (I recently bought a 3D monitor, after all). But graphics - in terms of improving immersion - are just icing on the cake.

You're misunderstanding me--aesthetics and area design are not the same thing as graphics. I'm talking about the use of those art assets, filling an area with all the fine details (dense forest with lots of mixed texturing and placeables, for instance) that make it come alive, regardless of whether the base art is terrible or amazing.

You can replace the word "graphics" with "aesthetics" in my last post, then. I don't need things to come alive (but, it's cool if they do).

 

[SCO]

Could we get the complete source of the editor? It would be very handy to fix the (inevitable) bugs that will be found and to streamline workflows later on.

 

[Ulminati]

Seeing as it's Larians propietary tech, probably not. Or at least not for several years until they've switched to a new engine.

It's pretty unusual for commercial software developers to release source code. Even ID Software who are somewhat famous for opensourcing their engines wait until the engine is a couple of generations old before doing so.

 

[garren]

Yeah after they ditch the current engine it would be cool if they open source it, but I can't see it happening before.