Do you think I'd like NWN2: MotB?

[1eyedking]

Having just beaten the game, here's my quick take.

Everything gameplay related in NWN2 is awful. The camera is awful and makes exploring a drag, a feeling furthered by the frequent loading delays. NPCs and enemies are idiotic, and controlling your party is a huge pain in the ass. Characters lag behind, rush ahead, and generally do whatever they can to screw things up. There's too much loot, and without a lot of knowledge of AD&D rules it can be difficult to figure out what's good or not. Collecting items takes too long, but if you suffer at all from the normal level of gamer compulsion, you won't be able to stop. The crafting is just a lame waste of time that makes the game easier for players who don't need it to be any easier. Inventory management is a bitch. You have too much gold for all but the most expensive items to matter, and in any event you never need them. Combat is easy but requires some micromanagement and is so epileptically sparkly that, unlike PS:T, you can't just sit and enjoy the show.

Graphics are theoretically decent, but are often ruined by the shoddy camera and other glitches. Most cutscenes will have the camera facing the wrong direction or a companion standing in its way, so dramatic speeches will usually be accompanied by a mephit flapping its wings and shaking its ass in your face. The ragdoll equipment means that your character will be wearing a poncy hat or a silly mask, that you'll seldom see your companion's faces for helmets, and--due to spell effects--when you do they'll often be blotchily textured stone. All this combines to undermine the character's depth--when you actually get to look at two characters conversing, the graphics provide a surprising benefit that is lacking in the usual mephit-ass radio play.

All this combines to create an enormous series of impediments to what is one of the best series of RPG dialogues I've yet played. While I think PS:T has a better story (and MOTB is also largely derivative of PS:T), MOTB may actually be better at providing dialogues with interesting skill checks and meaningful consequences. The writing is stellar, the plot is strong, the characters are rich and interesting. Especially, though, the ways in which you can interact with people, the cleverly hidden options, are all wonderful. All this combines with really great voice acting that sells the characters very well.

It's a real shame that the game wasn't put together better. With a good camera and combat at KOTOR quality (which is to say, terrible but tolerable), without the loot whoring and load times, it probably would be tied with Fallout and PS:T for my favorite RPG ever. As it stands, it's a significant notch below those.

Bottom line, you should probably play.

I'm also going to go out on a crazy limb and suggest that you use a character editor to give yourself a pile of fat loot for all your party members and then just ignore the treasure along the way. But I'm sure people will get indignant at that suggestion. . . .

--EDIT--

As to whether to play NWN2 OC first, I don't know. I did, and it was really painful to get through (especially the first third), but the MOTB experience is noticeably better for having played through the OC. Characters from the first game have a role in the second, and the protagonist's arc spreads through both games in a meaningful way.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Black]

If you don't/won't like MotB then you probably don't like good RPGs in general.

 

[racofer]

Alos it's much cheaper to just lower the graphic settings, but I think I understand what you're saying. NWN 2 is not very efficient for the quality of graphics.

What? I'm saying a $5000 pc for minimum settings, more than that he would need a quantum computer.

 

[MetalCraze]

If you don't/won't like MotB then you probably don't like good RPGs in general.

This generalization is correct.

 

[WanderingThrough2]

MotB has the same vibes in the way that KotOR2 has the same vibes as PST; it bears the markings of Avellone.

I think this might be understating the degree of equivalence. It's true that KOTOR 2 is probably more narratively identical to PS:T, but the combination of the AD&D setting, the "cast of contradictions" (friendly Thayan, fallen Angel, beautiful Hagspawn), and the Avellone themes made it feel more PS:Tish to me than KOTOR2 did.

First off, the element of Shadow plane areas and Dreamscapes. This game has worlds within worlds, between which you keep shifting back and forth. You have to find the right portals or the keys to those places, and in these alternative worlds, you find objects or people whom you couldn't have found physically.

While I agree with your overarching point that it's not a mere shadow of PS:T, the whole portals and keys is directly out of PS:T, and--unless I missed a ton of MOTB secrets, which is possible--it was actually far more developed in PS:T than in PS:T. You're given all the keys very easily and all of the portals are totally obvious. The fact that there are only three entrances to Shadow Mulsantir, two of which are completely obvious and two of which are always open, is pretty lame, as is the fact that the Hag's Eye appears to have only one use in a totally minimal quest.

Still a great game, but I'm not sure this is grounds for saying it's not overshadowed by PS:T.

 

[Vrokolos]

The story is one of the better ones out there for RPGs. It's the only one that reminded of PS:T.
If this game had hand-drawn graphics then I'd have loved it a lot more.

 

[Lesifoere]

MotB has the same vibes in the way that KotOR2 has the same vibes as PST; it bears the markings of Avellone.

I think this might be understating the degree of equivalence. It's true that KOTOR 2 is probably more narratively identical to PS:T, but the combination of the AD&D setting, the "cast of contradictions" (friendly Thayan, fallen Angel, beautiful Hagspawn), and the Avellone themes made it feel more PS:Tish to me than KOTOR2 did.

I'm not sure why, but "beautiful hagspawn" made me laugh aloud in RL. Not because you're wrong or anything, but you're going to be accused of being gay now, I think.

 

[Rhalle]

I was bored recently and tried to play it again. I got as far as the voiceover in the starter cave: "You feel a sensation in your chest, permeating all your being, something teabagging your very soul......"

And I had to turn it off because it is so unabashedly awful.

I didn't even get to meet the goth boy and find him so awful that I had to turn it off.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

kill yourself. with a rusty spoon.

 

[MetalCraze]

I was bored recently and tried to play it again. I got as far as the voiceover in the starter cave: "You feel a sensation in your chest, permeating all your being, something teabagging your very soul......"

And I had to turn it off because it is so unabashedly awful.

I didn't even get to meet the goth boy and find him so awful that I had to turn it off.

Yeah we need more "[intelligence] Raiders have made that building their storage and keep their weapons there!"

 

[ushdugery]

Fuck the oc it's painful to play through and boring, the companions are irritating and have stilted conversations and the combat and character building don't make up for it in any way. MotB I played through in one sitting the spirit metre mechanic pushes you through the story at a cracking pace and all the characters are well developed and fleshed out, interacting together in interesting ways and drawing you deeper into the story. One issue though if you're a completionist item chaser or want some more challenging tactical combat there is a distinct possibility you will be disappointed.

 

[Shodan]

Thanks all, based on the comments here I'm fairly certain I'll enjoy the game, will start playing it tonight.

 

[Lim-Lim]

I was bored recently and tried to play it again. I got as far as the voiceover in the starter cave: "You feel a sensation in your chest, permeating all your being, something teabagging your very soul......"

And I had to turn it off because it is so unabashedly awful.

I didn't even get to meet the goth boy and find him so awful that I had to turn it off.

Yeah we need more "[intelligence] Raiders have made that building their storage and keep their weapons there!"

I personally found the beginning of the game very boring and sucky. But then again, so was the case with PS:T too, so maybe it's just me.

The problem didn't go away on second playtrough either. The beginning of the game was still very painful experience for me.

 

[Erebus]

I personally found the beginning of the game very boring and sucky. But then again, so was the case with PS:T too, so maybe it's just me.

I'm resisting very hard a wild urge to say something along the lines of "Die, heretic !".

Seriously, how can you find the freaking Mortuary boring and sucky ??

 

[Silellak]

I was bored recently and tried to play it again. I got as far as the voiceover in the starter cave: "You feel a sensation in your chest, permeating all your being, something teabagging your very soul......"

And I had to turn it off because it is so unabashedly awful.

I didn't even get to meet the goth boy and find him so awful that I had to turn it off.

Yeah we need more "[intelligence] Raiders have made that building their storage and keep their weapons there!"

I personally found the beginning of the game very boring and sucky. But then again, so was the case with PS:T too, so maybe it's just me.

The problem didn't go away on second playtrough either. The beginning of the game was still very painful experience for me.

The beginning of MotB almost turned me off, too. I'm glad I toughed through it, but the whole "Here is a cave - bye" thing really through me for a loop and gave me the wrong impression of the rest of the game.

 

[DemonKing]

I would have enjoyed it more if it wasn't for the clunkiness of the NWN2 engine and the awful combat.

If you can set those two factors aside you'll probably enjoy yourself.

 

[roshan]

In terms of story, characters, dialogues etc, MOTB is decent, but far away from being PST quality. Gameplay wise, the game is pretty bad, with the clunky camera, and god awful ridiculously boring/repetitive/easy combat (much worse than PST, think Arcanum bad). And unlike PST, you spend most of your time in combat. Id still recommend it though, as overall, it was an enjoyable experience. The best features are that it gets away from the standard high fantasy fare and plunges you in a setting with spirit animals, hags, witches, dreamscapes, shadow worlds etc, and also provides many interesting consequences to your actions.

What I didnt like is that it doesnt have enough content to explore, the result of which the world is not really fleshed out. Take Sigil for example - you can roam around, meeting collectors, demons, prostitutes, fishmongers, lim lim merchants, pest control agents, upper class townsfolk, apprentice mages, bariaurs, githzerai, tattoo artists, thugs and god knows what else. Sigil felt a lot like a real city. Mulsantir is nowhere near as well fleshed out in terms of detail and content, and there isnt much to do there. Most of the other game areas are pretty much empty, with only a few key NPCs and lots of monsters to kill. I tried replaying MOTB, taking the evil path as opposed to the good path I took on my first playthrough, but wasnt able to get into the game anymore due to the lack of detail and content to explore.

Although PST has a linear plot, and also fairly linear area progression (except for the hive where one can freely roam about), in PST, most of the players time is spent on questing, and character, faction and world exploration, just like in Fallout or Arcanum. PST actually makes this world exploration necessary by keeping the main story and protagonists background a mystery. In MOTB, most of the players time is spent in combat zones killing stuff. MOTB is more like a KOTOR or NWN game buffed up with way better C&C as well as better plot/roleplaying/setting as opposed to a PST lite (PST being essentially a linear, story/character focused version of Fallout or Arcanum). MOTB is pretty much the epitome of the NWN/KOTOR school of RPG design. As the best its subgenre has produced, it is definitely worth experiencing even if one has been dissatisfied with its unworthy predecessors.

 

[Volourn]

"Gameplay wise, the game is pretty bad, with the clunky camera, and god awful ridiculously boring/repetitive/easy combat (much worse than PST, think Arcanum bad). "

Complete, and utter bullshit.

 

[Zhirzzh]

What I didnt like is that it doesnt have enough content to explore, the result of which the world is not really fleshed out. Take Sigil for example - you can roam around, meeting collectors, demons, prostitutes, fishmongers, lim lim merchants, pest control agents, upper class townsfolk, apprentice mages, bariaurs, githzerai, tattoo artists, thugs and god knows what else. Sigil felt a lot like a real city. Mulsantir is nowhere near as well fleshed out in terms of detail and content, and there isnt much to do there. Most of the other game areas are pretty much empty, with only a few key NPCs and lots of monsters to kill. I tried replaying MOTB, taking the evil path as opposed to the good path I took on my first playthrough, but wasnt able to get into the game anymore due to the lack of detail and content to explore.

An expansion has less content than a whole game? Amazing.

 

[roshan]

What I didnt like is that it doesnt have enough content to explore, the result of which the world is not really fleshed out. Take Sigil for example - you can roam around, meeting collectors, demons, prostitutes, fishmongers, lim lim merchants, pest control agents, upper class townsfolk, apprentice mages, bariaurs, githzerai, tattoo artists, thugs and god knows what else. Sigil felt a lot like a real city. Mulsantir is nowhere near as well fleshed out in terms of detail and content, and there isnt much to do there. Most of the other game areas are pretty much empty, with only a few key NPCs and lots of monsters to kill. I tried replaying MOTB, taking the evil path as opposed to the good path I took on my first playthrough, but wasnt able to get into the game anymore due to the lack of detail and content to explore.

An expansion has less content than a whole game? Amazing.

Looks like you missed the point. Read the next paragraph of my post.

 

[Beans00]

motb is a bioware quality game



ooo it has choices its sooooo gud!


thats the codex opinion on it, if you buy it your gay

 

[Jaime Lannister]

motb is a bioware quality game



ooo it has choices its sooooo gud!


thats the codex opinion on it, if you buy it your gay

If you're gonna troll at least change it up once in a while. Posting "motb sucks" every post gets old.

By the way, you're gay.

 

[Vibalist]

motb is a bioware quality game



ooo it has choices its sooooo gud!


thats the codex opinion on it, if you buy it your gay

Whose gay?

 

[Gragt]

MotB stole the shadow world concept from Zelda!

 

[Witchblade]

Having just beaten the game, here's my quick take.

Everything gameplay related in NWN2 is awful. The camera is awful and makes exploring a drag, a feeling furthered by the frequent loading delays. NPCs and enemies are idiotic, and controlling your party is a huge pain in the ass. Characters lag behind, rush ahead, and generally do whatever they can to screw things up. There's too much loot, and without a lot of knowledge of AD&D rules it can be difficult to figure out what's good or not. Collecting items takes too long, but if you suffer at all from the normal level of gamer compulsion, you won't be able to stop. The crafting is just a lame waste of time that makes the game easier for players who don't need it to be any easier. Inventory management is a bitch. You have too much gold for all but the most expensive items to matter, and in any event you never need them. Combat is easy but requires some micromanagement and is so epileptically sparkly that, unlike PS:T, you can't just sit and enjoy the show.

Graphics are theoretically decent, but are often ruined by the shoddy camera and other glitches. Most cutscenes will have the camera facing the wrong direction or a companion standing in its way, so dramatic speeches will usually be accompanied by a mephit flapping its wings and shaking its ass in your face. The ragdoll equipment means that your character will be wearing a poncy hat or a silly mask, that you'll seldom see your companion's faces for helmets, and--due to spell effects--when you do they'll often be blotchily textured stone. All this combines to undermine the character's depth--when you actually get to look at two characters conversing, the graphics provide a surprising benefit that is lacking in the usual mephit-ass radio play.

All this combines to create an enormous series of impediments to what is one of the best series of RPG dialogues I've yet played. While I think PS:T has a better story (and MOTB is also largely derivative of PS:T), MOTB may actually be better at providing dialogues with interesting skill checks and meaningful consequences. The writing is stellar, the plot is strong, the characters are rich and interesting. Especially, though, the ways in which you can interact with people, the cleverly hidden options, are all wonderful. All this combines with really great voice acting that sells the characters very well.

It's a real shame that the game wasn't put together better. With a good camera and combat at KOTOR quality (which is to say, terrible but tolerable), without the loot whoring and load times, it probably would be tied with Fallout and PS:T for my favorite RPG ever. As it stands, it's a significant notch below those.

Bottom line, you should probably play.

I'm also going to go out on a crazy limb and suggest that you use a character editor to give yourself a pile of fat loot for all your party members and then just ignore the treasure along the way. But I'm sure people will get indignant at that suggestion. . . .

--EDIT--

As to whether to play NWN2 OC first, I don't know. I did, and it was really painful to get through (especially the first third), but the MOTB experience is noticeably better for having played through the OC. Characters from the first game have a role in the second, and the protagonist's arc spreads through both games in a meaningful way.

I fully agree with the bitching above re NWN2. After a while it became too frustrating for me to continue, and I think I left off somewhere about a third of the game in.

I'm also becoming impatient to try MOTB, and I've been considering starting it w/out finishing NWN2 OC.
Is that a good idea, or shall I just clench my teeth and soldier on with NWN2' bad camera and AI?

And while on the subject, - what about Storm of Zehir? Better or worse than NWN2 OC?