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Does CD Projekt underpay and abuse its developers?

Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
4,201
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I'm from Poland I can confirm that you can live quite comfortably and work in an office that doesn't force you to work 100+ hours per week. There is nothing keeping those people there and it's probably the old case of people agreeing to be treated like dirt because they're doing their dream job.
 

MegaRhettButler

Literate
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Does CD Projekt underpay and abuse its developers

Probably. Capitalism works in alignment with human nature, and human nature is fundamentally evil. But of all the problems that exist in the world I can't think why I'd give a shit about this one. My clothes and shoes were made by exploited Chinese kids. My coffee was grown by starving brown people. That's bad and all, but I only have so many fucks to give and the wellbeing of game developers doesn't make the cut.

Every creative industry is insanely exploitative. Actors literally suck circumcised dicks for parts, musicians work themselves into the ground on tour and get all their royalties stolen etc. It's a rotten world run by rotten people and voting with your wallet does no more to improve things than actual voting does.
 

Naraya

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Tuono-Tabr
Of course, many people are morons who don't even realize how high taxes really are.
Don't even get me started on people convinced that the government funds everything from the money they print, not those silly mythical taxes everyone keeps babbling about.
 

Azdul

Magister
Joined
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Langley, Virginia
Every creative industry is insanely exploitative.
There is a saying in Poland that every game programmer was working, is working or will be working at CD Projekt RED. There is quite good documentary about how Witcher 1 was made. As you may expect, almost everyone from that team left the company.

Game companies can hire fresh out of college guys that are naive enough to think that they will be doing something profound and creative. Maybe it was creative in 80s and 90s, but now it is mainly a lot of engineering work, for lower wages and longer hours, mainly caused by mismanagement and high employee turnover.

In non-gaming software companies experienced software engineers do not have patience for such bullshit.
 

Wyatt_Derp

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
3,073
Location
Okie Land
Does CD Projekt underpay and abuse its developers

Probably. Capitalism works in alignment with human nature, and human nature is fundamentally evil. But of all the problems that exist in the world I can't think why I'd give a shit about this one. My clothes and shoes were made by exploited Chinese kids. My coffee was grown by starving brown people. That's bad and all, but I only have so many fucks to give and the wellbeing of game developers doesn't make the cut.

Every creative industry is insanely exploitative. Actors literally suck circumcised dicks for parts, musicians work themselves into the ground on tour and get all their royalties stolen etc. It's a rotten world run by rotten people and voting with your wallet does no more to improve things than actual voting does.

The world is what it is, and largely due to the choices we make - consciously or otherwise. My problem is with the contradictions of the dev/gaming world. Let's face it, most people involved in working in gaming are leftist by default (Dem/Socialist/Labor,etc). Their hipster clothes are made in sweat shops, their Latte blend coffee is bagged by 10 year old whip-slaves in Brazil, and their apartment rent is 20% times higher where they live because something-something 'free' healthcare. And yet they'll have the stones to go to BLM rallies and finger-wave at people who don't recycle. Wherever these people live, hypocrisy needs its own area code.

People don't really care about where their money goes or what's going on behind the curtain. They just wanna feel good about themselves and vote for someone who says they'll get things they don't have (or were taken away by racist, sexist orange man). When people stop being hypocrites, politicians will stop lying to them in order to sustain the hypocrisy. Or maybe it's the other way around.
 

MegaRhettButler

Literate
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Belle Watling's boudoir
#When people stop being hypocrites, politicians will stop lying to them in order to sustain the hypocrisy. Or maybe it's the other way around.

... I really don't know what to say to that. There are so many layers to unpack. I don't think the world is what it is because of our choices. I am a stuanch proponent of the NPC normie hypothesis and so I don't believe most people possess the agency to make choices. Those that do usually don't have the resources to make choices that affect change. As for leftists buying unethical products, sure, that's a thing that happens. Nazis also watch Netfix, shave with Gilette razors and use Google products dozens of times per day so they aren't unique in that. Neither side really has much choice in the matter, your life would become much too complicated if you tried to only make purchases in line with your morality. Most don't have the time and money. Cancelling Netflix is no loss though.

The idea that voting has anything to do with changing society is just fabulously optimistic to me. Politicians are all psychopaths and they work for kiddy fucking, devil worshiping billionaires. It doesn't matter which one you pick.
 

Wyatt_Derp

Arcane
Joined
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Location
Okie Land
#When people stop being hypocrites, politicians will stop lying to them in order to sustain the hypocrisy. Or maybe it's the other way around.

... I really don't know what to say to that. There are so many layers to unpack. I don't think the world is what it is because of our choices. I am a stuanch proponent of the NPC normie hypothesis and so I don't believe most people possess the agency to make choices. Those that do usually don't have the resources to make choices that affect change. As for leftists buying unethical products, sure, that's a thing that happens. Nazis also watch Netfix, shave with Gilette razors and use Google products dozens of times per day so they aren't unique in that. Neither side really has much choice in the matter, your life would become much too complicated if you tried to only make purchases in line with your morality. Most don't have the time and money. Cancelling Netflix is no loss though.

The idea that voting has anything to do with changing society is just fabulously optimistic to me. Politicians are all psychopaths and they work for kiddy fucking, devil worshiping billionaires. It doesn't matter which one you pick.

I understand that paradigm. In the fake opposing camps narrative say with Coke or Pepsi, the end result is still diabetes and teeth cavities. I get it. My point is illustrated by yours about the nazis. Yeah, nazis might shave with Gilette or drive a hybrid car, but at least the nazi isn't on mainstream news/media outfits screaming at you for not having a swastika carved into your forehead. The left does.

If someone cares about labor reform, then move to any of a hundred nations on Earth and tie yourself to a rail-road or rubber tree. The world is waiting, dying to have you help it. But sitting in your air conditioned room, drinking your soy-milk and flipping through a million cable shows while silently thinking about how much you hate white privilege is enough to make my head explode. Assertive hypocrisy is bad but understandable given human nature. Passive aggressive hypocrisy is the worst thing of all.

And that ties into the theme of this thread. Free market values have been ignored and abused for so long they almost don't exist any more. The only agency a dev might have for working at an abusive uncaring company is to pack up and leave. Quit. How can things get any worse? When you read the bios of people in history who have done amazing things, you don't think they didn't have rent to pay or food to buy? Many of them bet the farm on their inventions or creations. And for every one that now has a trademarked name and a wikipedia article, there are millions who tried as well and ended up with the short end of the stick. Life is choice. And chances. And a tiny bit of luck. None of us are going to get anywhere sitting at the same miserable job, wishing someone would rescue us from our misery.

The journey away from corporate hell, or any hell at all, starts with one step out of a door. To put up with abuse at work and not do anything about it is one leather outfit away from sado-masochism.
 

RepHope

Savant
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Messages
403
Who gives a shit?

Stock market , CDP looks more and more like a hedge fund than "tech" or "games" company.

They are valued multiple times of Capcom IIRC. (crazy!!)
When was the last time a Capcom game sold over 20 million? CDPR had a huge hit with W3, and if Cyberpunk doesn’t flop that will probably sell just as well. Plus any future Witcher games (and we all know they’re coming) will also assuredly sell great given the W3 and the success of the Netflix Witcher. Plus CDPR has their own storefront with GoG. It could all collapse like Bioware has but I’m not surprised the stick value is so high.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
387
I don't like game corps, but people who go to work in there, get fucked and thrown out, kinda have it coming.

Game devs can't even be bothered to create a worker union, like every other creative and not so much professions do, what do they expect?
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
387
Who gives a shit?

Stock market , CDP looks more and more like a hedge fund than "tech" or "games" company.

They are valued multiple times of Capcom IIRC. (crazy!!)
When was the last time a Capcom game sold over 20 million? CDPR had a huge hit with W3, and if Cyberpunk doesn’t flop that will probably sell just as well. Plus any future Witcher games (and we all know they’re coming) will also assuredly sell great given the W3 and the success of the Netflix Witcher. Plus CDPR has their own storefront with GoG. It could all collapse like Bioware has but I’m not surprised the stick value is so high.
It is already miles ahead in pre-orders compared to Bitcher 3, so flop is unlikely.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,577
When was the last time a Capcom game sold over 20 million? CDPR had a huge hit with W3, and if Cyberpunk doesn’t flop that will probably sell just as well. Plus any future Witcher games (and we all know they’re coming) will also assuredly sell great given the W3 and the success of the Netflix Witcher. Plus CDPR has their own storefront with GoG. It could all collapse like Bioware has but I’m not surprised the stick value is so high.

Except Capcom has firm leg in mobile market partly because past IPs and CDP has stuff that cannot translate well. And new console/display hardware is of questionable quality as well.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Wait, you think there is a single country in the world that literally takes 70% of everybody's income?
There is more to tax than income tax. If I look at what an employer has to pay for average worker, and then look at what that worker gets to actually spend, I see that government takes 62% of what he earned.

And that is not in any top bracket, that is for average salary worker.

Of course, many people are morons who don't even realize how high taxes really are.

I have a pretty middle-of-the-range income, and I pay plenty of taxes even though my income tax percentage is merely in the 30s.

But with every purchase I make, I pay 19% VAT.
With every drink I have, I pay alcohol tax.
I occasionally smoke a cigar, which has tobacco tax added to the price.
I go to most places by car, so I need to put fuel in the tank, which has a fuel tax added to the price (which is half of the price: if there were no fuel tax, each liter of fuel would cost less than a euro).
I make some money on the side with investments, on which I pay a capital gains tax.

It really adds up, but because most taxes are "hidden" many people don't realize they even exist.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Yes, of course - the same happens with my own income. But if there's a country in Europe where '60-70% of people's income' are being taken, I'd be glad to hear more and stand corrected.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
2,023
Yes, of course - the same happens with my own income. But if there's a country in Europe where '60-70% of people's income' are being taken, I'd be glad to hear more and stand corrected.
As I said. In my country of czechland average employee gives 62% to the government every month once all taxes are counted.
And that is the same in most euro countries. I wonder how it is in US. I am talking all taxes - income tax, health tax, social security tax, VAT tax, all of it.
 

Riddler

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Jan 5, 2009
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Bubbles In Memoria
Yes, of course - the same happens with my own income. But if there's a country in Europe where '60-70% of people's income' are being taken, I'd be glad to hear more and stand corrected.

The tax rate for the median swede is about 55% before counting VAT, capital gains and your pension (which is taxed a second time). The complete tax rate is in the high 60s.
 

CappenVarra

phase-based phantasmist
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Ardamai
the arguments in favor of those poor abused cdpr devs would echo way less tin if they weren't about guys paid lotsa money to produce wowza cinematic action games and call them rpgs

:nocountryforshitposters:

i resent that
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Thanks for details from people living in various countries - that's informative.

I agree that the trick is to add all the actual costs for people. I have friends who live in places with where they get 50% income tax, and if you add VAT-equivalents etc, a hefty chunk goes away indeed.

I've also had American friends who got taxed like half of that, but then after the healthcare costs, in some cases they were paying more, sometimes less, than the above.

And then there are things which are much harder to compare. If you pay $5 in tax and you get subsidised public transport, it's hard to know how that compares in dollar terms to someone in a different country. All this is before we even talk about people who count as self-employed for tax purposes, or are fairly rich and declare their income through different means, etc, etc.
 

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