Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[Cromwell]

I hate it when aghs gets added for heroes, because that means in my shit tier people will buy aghs without thinking. I also dont like that there are two runes now, its not a gamble anymore if you havent warded to go to the rune you will always be rewarded, on the flipside both hard lanes can now use runes btw buy bottles if you have a hero there who could use them. I am not a good enough player do see why some hero changes were needed some things just seem "new because we need something new" to me especially bloodseeker who still seems shitty, riki will fuck pubs, as he did before but now he needs even less farm to start.

 

[Cromwell]

I just realized this and I am at work now so I havent the time to dive deeper into the math, but if I understood that correctly if you kill someone the amount of gold you get is depending of how much gold that hero is worth? and the less my team farms the more gold I get when I kill a fat farmed hero? On top of the money I get for beeing the kiler myself so I practically get kill gold and area gold? The fuck is this?

 

[Malakal]

I hate it when aghs gets added for heroes, because that means in my shit tier people will buy aghs without thinking. I also dont like that there are two runes now, its not a gamble anymore if you havent warded to go to the rune you will always be rewarded, on the flipside both hard lanes can now use runes btw buy bottles if you have a hero there who could use them. I am not a good enough player do see why some hero changes were needed some things just seem "new because we need something new" to me especially bloodseeker who still seems shitty, riki will fuck pubs, as he did before but now he needs even less farm to start.

Yes but only one of those runes is useful for killing rather than bottle sustain. The gold one will be a support rune to get them something without farming.

 

[Ninjerk]

I just realized this and I am at work now so I havent the time to dive deeper into the math, but if I understood that correctly if you kill someone the amount of gold you get is depending of how much gold that hero is worth? and the less my team farms the more gold I get when I kill a fat farmed hero? On top of the money I get for beeing the kiler myself so I practically get kill gold and area gold? The fuck is this?

Amount of gold awarded to the killer is dependent on whether they're on a killstreak. It doesn't matter how much they've farmed. Gamepedia's DotA 2 wiki remains reasonably up to date.

 

[Cromwell]

I just realized this and I am at work now so I havent the time to dive deeper into the math, but if I understood that correctly if you kill someone the amount of gold you get is depending of how much gold that hero is worth? and the less my team farms the more gold I get when I kill a fat farmed hero? On top of the money I get for beeing the kiler myself so I practically get kill gold and area gold? The fuck is this?

Amount of gold awarded to the killer is dependent on whether they're on a killstreak. It doesn't matter how much they've farmed. Gamepedia's DotA 2 wiki remains reasonably up to date.

• 
  New:
  ==============
  The player that got the last hit now also gets the area of effect bounty.
  
  VictimLevel = Level of the Victim
  VictimNW = The victim's Net Worth
  EnemyTeamNW = Enemy team's total Net Worth
  AlliedTeamNW = Your team's total Net Worth
  NWDifference = ( EnemyTeamNW - AlliedTeamNW )/ ( EnemyTeamNW + AlliedTeamNW ) (minimum 0)
  NWFactor = NWDifference * VictimNW
  
  1 Hero: Gold = 40 + 7 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.5
  2 Heroes: Gold = 30 + 6 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.35
  3 Heroes: Gold = 20 + 5 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.25
  4 Heroes: Gold = 10 + 4 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.2
  5 Heroes: Gold = 10 + 4 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.15

Thats what I get from the steampage. Killstreak Gold got a slight nerf but the Bounty is uncapped.

 

[Ninjerk]

I just realized this and I am at work now so I havent the time to dive deeper into the math, but if I understood that correctly if you kill someone the amount of gold you get is depending of how much gold that hero is worth? and the less my team farms the more gold I get when I kill a fat farmed hero? On top of the money I get for beeing the kiler myself so I practically get kill gold and area gold? The fuck is this?

Amount of gold awarded to the killer is dependent on whether they're on a killstreak. It doesn't matter how much they've farmed. Gamepedia's DotA 2 wiki remains reasonably up to date.

• 
  New:
  ==============
  The player that got the last hit now also gets the area of effect bounty.
  
  VictimLevel = Level of the Victim
  VictimNW = The victim's Net Worth
  EnemyTeamNW = Enemy team's total Net Worth
  AlliedTeamNW = Your team's total Net Worth
  NWDifference = ( EnemyTeamNW - AlliedTeamNW )/ ( EnemyTeamNW + AlliedTeamNW ) (minimum 0)
  NWFactor = NWDifference * VictimNW
  
  1 Hero: Gold = 40 + 7 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.5
  2 Heroes: Gold = 30 + 6 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.35
  3 Heroes: Gold = 20 + 5 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.25
  4 Heroes: Gold = 10 + 4 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.2
  5 Heroes: Gold = 10 + 4 * VictimLevel + NWFactor * 0.15

Thats what I get from the steampage. Killstreak Gold got a slight nerf but the Bounty is uncapped.

Ah, didn't see that.

 

[Cromwell]

Ah, didn't see that.

Yeah XP distribution is pretty much the same formula but switched net worth with netxpworth

 

[Malakal]

Anyone did the math? How does it work for low levels?

 

[Pope Amole II]

Most important changes for me:

- Love the new Bane aghs. You see, I love to play a farming Bane - last hit on either hard or easy line (thankfully, his attack is immense for a ranged hero), make a phase boots, couple of nulls, maybe Euls (euls+phase is freaking ridiculous)and just manfight everyone to their deaths. If you get a couple of early kills (and fast lvl 7), you can steamroll quite nicely in the early to mid game (late sucks, though). And, well, Aghs fits into this formula quite nicely - I've liked it already (for killing the solo guys who got out of position) and it got even better. Outside of that role, however, it's not that broken.

- I've played a cool jungling bloodseeker, but the rework version, while it seems rather curious (40% damage amplification is immense in terms of focusing down your foes, you just need to have enough disables to never let them use that 40% damage dealt amplification; on the other hand, combos with 40% spell damage amplification for your own guys also need to be assessed; still, just imagine what it can do with any kind of a global ult - bloodraged Zeus ulti, Furion ulti, Spectre ulti - all the benefits with none of the risks).

- Doom being nerfed (less useful with blink, doesn't disable passives, less ultimate damage, no more swiftness aura + stun combo) is not pleasant, but manageable. You still have your insane gold gain rate and, well, I never loved blink on the doom anyways. He'll survive.

- New Kotl mana leak is very delicious. I was already thinking hard about the ways to squeeze the mana leak into his early game (as it is a very powerful and undervalued spell) and now you don't even need to max it out - it's very good from the level 1. Gotta try the 1-1-3 build with him. Recall vs the naga ult is also quite trollish. And blinding light increased distance is great - more chaos to the enemy rank and when you're trying to escape from your foes, 150 distance between you and them can be the difference between life and death.

- My beloved LC got nerfed, though. So now my preferred way of hardlaning her with the Soul Ring rush is much harder to play - I guess you also need Basilius to maintain it and, well, with the freshly retarded flying couriers bringing items to the hard lane won't be easy. And Duel no longer disables passives but, well, there's a bright side to that - now lifesteal, evasion, crits and basher is actually useful on her (because her disables worked both ways). So that opens up a lot of space for the new build - I know I'm gonna try mom LC (ah, so young and already a mother) and a basher LC. Maybe even both, lol. And, with the new double runes, she became much better at jungling (and, thinking about it, now bottle may become a valid alternative to the soul ring build - 320 movement speed is so good for the rune chasing). Also get to see pros playing her eventually, I guess.

- Medusa got even tankier - good, next time I'm playing in stack (after the patch release) and somebody picks the Drow Ranger, I'm totally going jungling medusa. It's not that horrible in the pubs.

- Ogre magi now is a much better jungler (yeah, one of my schticks is that I know how to jungle a lot of unappropriate heroes). He was decent before and now he may be actually good. You just need to max out the bloodlust first, but is that that big of an issue? I really love the speed gain you acquire from that early maxed out bloodlust. And if you get Euls...

 

[Greatness]

Oh god jungle Ogre... If you don't want to lane why not just play him as a roamer? Farming jungle is the last thing I'd want my ogre magi teammate to be dong.

The rune change is pretty necessary since bottle crowing has been nerfed super hard. Speed boost lasts 4 seconds for a 90 second cooldown now. If you didn't have rune luck you'd have automatically lost mid, now with the change at least you'll still get to refill your bottle. The bottle crow nerf will be a good thing I think. No more stupid mids who just sit there and spam down every wave while constantly bottle crowing.

 

[Damned Registrations]

After reading the patch notes, some thoughts:

New kill bounty mechanics give the advantage to the team with less farm. While this is a rubberbanding mechanism that should prolong games (which benefits farming), it also means ganking lineups become more viable instead of farming lineups. Hard to say which direction things will go. In pubs this will make games much much more throwable. Scoring a kill on the enemy carry because he fountain dove for lulz when your team is 5 levels behind is going to give obscene amounts of xp and gold.

Love the changes to PL, makes him much more active and less cheesy. Though with the nerf to 2nd tier diffusal, hard to say if it's an improvement overall.

Bloodseeker I'm ambivalent on. Thirst change is great (makes it much more of a steady buff, no more trying to get the whole enemy team below 50% and then finish them off bullshit) rage change is awful, and bloodbath change is probably a major nerf tbh.

Like the new item, makes vanguard much more viable, instead of just being dead weight in the lategame.

Roshan change was long overdue. Still kinda favours the dire imo, but not nearly as much as the old one, which was just retarded.

Most of the other terrain changes don't really matter tbh. Arbitrary changes just kind of annoy me, means having to relearn juke spots and shit.

New bloodstone build is fantastic. Going to see a lot of use I think.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Oh god jungle Ogre... If you don't want to lane why not just play him as a roamer? Farming jungle is the last thing I'd want my ogre magi teammate to be dong.

Because he needs lots of levels and roaming usually doesn't give that? And he's ok jugnler if you know the drill - with average spawns, you can make a 9-10 minute mek in the radiant jungle. That +2 regeneration thing will probably bring that down to the 8-9 minute mark. That's good enough for average pubs. For higher ranked games - sure, that's shit. But there, to be truly efficient, Ogre should stay on a solo lane and, well, I dunno if extra 2 regen will allow him to do that. It helps, but might not be enough.

 

[curry]

Ogre is a viable offlaner now

 

[Ninjerk]

http://giant.gfycat.com/UniformEnchantedEquine.mp4

 

[Coriolanus]

 

[Damned Registrations]

Predicting Riki's winrate in pubs to go up about 20%.

 

[Chef_Hathaway]

BS so stronk. BS so fun.

 

[Ninjerk]

Treant wards are back!

 

[Damned Registrations]

Predicting Riki's winrate in pubs to go up about 20%.

I am a dumb. The new ult is actually awful, it's internal cooldown isn't short enough for real burst damage, and 30 sec charge time is insane.

 

[Cromwell]

Predicting Riki's winrate in pubs to go up about 20%.

I am a dumb. The new ult is actually awful, it's internal cooldown isn't short enough for real burst damage, and 30 sec charge time is insane.

theres an internal cd?

 

[Coriolanus]

http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/winning?date=patch_6.82

The biggest game-changer is the comeback mechanic, the ridiculous gold/xp rewards for killing heroes that are ahead. This is a HUGE nerf to heroes that need to snowball like QoP and a massive buff to 'comeback', midgame fighting heroes.

 

[Cromwell]

I would not call that a nerf, while I am no fan of rewarding Iiots for luck (meaning getting a lucky last hit/kill) I am also a bg fan of punishing bad plays even if they are my own, thats what makes me play dota instead of lol. Also it may fix my problem with the subhumans who call g because they died two times and we are two towers behind I fucking hate that.

 

[Malakal]

http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/winning?date=patch_6.82

The biggest game-changer is the comeback mechanic, the ridiculous gold/xp rewards for killing heroes that are ahead. This is a HUGE nerf to heroes that need to snowball like QoP and a massive buff to 'comeback', midgame fighting heroes.

In pubs maybe but at higher level snowballing always was as much about exp and gold as it was about denying both to the enemies. And I seriously doubt that even with the biggest bounties on kills it can replace farming, especially since in battles you cant just give those kills to the carry.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Had such a dumbfuck victory couple of days ago (wanted to post it back then, but somehow it eluded my mind). So here's the razor calling gg. Not because he thinks we've won - on the contrary. Instead of staying with me and going straight for the throne, he tpd to fend our last 'rax (we were sitting on one for, like, 10 minutes) against a solo weaver - unsuccessfully, of course. I pinged like mad, but he still tpd out. Well, at least that's where the decision to make both assault cuirass & desolator totally paid off. And, quite predictably, the enemy fura & weaver either had no tps or were too busy celebrating their victory to tp & defend.

And the whole game was horrible - I had a whole team of aliens who were chatting something in their alien speak (and totally ignoring any attempts to coordinate tactics - like, oh, we're going on the ramp, but suddenly skywrath and riki tp out and we're left 3 against 5), but it's not because they didn't know english. THey did and used it to engage into "ur mom" schoolkids talk with the enemy team. And, y'know, everyone played horribly (myself included as I really should've slept instead of playing that one) and there was techies in the game (but he also was awful) and it was just a huge clusterfuck.

Anyhow, couple of things about 6.82:

- Axe got so much better - the Helix increase is actually huge and those runes really help him jungling a fast dagger (well, that's if he doesn't meet enemy there and die a horrible death, he's not the best contester).
- CM also became a much better jungler - there's a huge difference between doing 700 dmg and 1000 dmg to the neutral creeps. Previously, just one satyr camp could fuck your entire jungling, now it's not a problem. But it's still only decent in the radiant jungle where you can farm 2 big camps instead of just 1 (and taking the rune is much safer there) or so it seems.
- Ogre magi - as I've said, 9 minutes jungling mek doable. Mek nerf is a bitch for him, though. Extra 75 mana per cast really hurt him (and a lot of other mek carriers, I guess).
- Despite the nerf, legion is still a decent jungler. Pretty much the same as she was - runes compensate the Press the Attack's mana increase.

 

[Coriolanus]

So Envy's spamming Morphling on his @roadto7k! Should have guessed this patch was a *massive* buff to my favorite hero despite EB getting a pretty serious nerf.

Bloodseeker's basically broken OP in the right hands (like he wasn't a strong situational pick before!). PL is *really* strong, too bad Diffusal got nerfed (he would be broken OP if it wasn't). I think PL is a mid hero now.

SF is bad, even more so than he used to be. Meepo is bad now. Big XP/gold lead 'get ahead, stay ahead' heroes don't matter anymore.

Tinker is still good. Too bad people pick Spectre so much!