KickStarter Double Fine's MASSIVE CHALICE - Released... but nobody cares

[dunno lah]

When you think how great Conquistador turned out to be with just 70k, that 700k goal already seems to be threefolded...

Just to think what they could had accomplish with 700k :/

Or they'd pull a George Lucas...

Seriously though, people are at their best when working within limitations.

 

[Infinitron]

They wouldn't know what to do with that kind of money and would probably need to hire some kind of external management consultant to help them out. Either that or just make the game they were planning to make and keep the rest of the money.

 

[felipepepe]

They wouldn't know what to do with that kind of money and would probably need to hire some kind of external management consultant to help them out. Either that or just make the game they were planning to make and keep the rest of the money.

Definetly happening in some cases... that HEX MMO asked for 300k and it's at almost 2M... it's be hard even to find a way to spend that much in the game (unless you're Double Fine)

 

[Trash]

No update today and I'll cancel my pledge. If they don't care enough about their KS to spend some time on it then I don't care about it either.

 

[Sam Ecorners]

Instead of pledgin to these hipsters, pledge to Armikrog - spiritual successor to neverhood.

 

[J_C]

We Made Our Goal!


A big :D to all you guys and a huge thanks for hitting our goal! We’ve been listening to a lot of your feedback and we’ve got some great things to share.

Two New Reward Tiers!

You’ve been asking us to tweak our reward curve, and we think it makes a lot of sense. Now supporters who back at $35 and above will get an exclusive backers-only Bloodline Relic that will give your first generation of heroes an edge on the battlefield. We’re going to work directly with the community to determine what this item will be, and we’re sure that it’s going to be awesome. :D
We’ve also added a special edition boxed copy of MASSIVE CHALICE designed by Cory Schmitz for backers at $75 and above. Cory is the mastermind behind our MASSIVE CHALICE logo. Check out the details in the rewards section of our main project page!
Stretch Goals

A lot of people have asked us about stretch goals. MASSIVE CHALICE is still in the pre-production phase of development. We’ve got a TON of ideas around Double Fine HQ that sound awesome, but as with every game, not every idea can make it through production. And now that we’ve announced the game and shared the idea with you guys, we have another TON of ideas! So that’s two tons of ideas we’re trying to fit into a modest budget!
The exciting thing about taking the game to you guys at this early stage is that some of your ideas are even better than ours. As we go through pre-production into production, some of these ideas are going to trump ours, leading to a game that’s more in line with what our community wants! That’s amazing and we love having you involved in the process!
Ultimately it’s about making the best game possible with the total amount we receive. We’ll be using any amount of extra funding to add new features and iterate on the ideas generated not just by us, but by you—the community!
Thanks Again!

We’re incredibly humbled by your outpouring of love for MASSIVE CHALICE! We’re really excited to have the opportunity to make this game a reality with your support and input. Thank you so much! :D!
Sincerely,
Brad and the MASSIVE CHALICE team!


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Update is up. And it is shit. It seems that they probably don't want to make stretchgoals (not now at least). While this is counter-intuitive to the campaign (more stretchgoals can mean more money), I think poorly done stretchgoals may have a negative effect on the production in the long run. Because offering the stars for an additional 100K dollars can result in the developer overpromising. And if they underpromise in the stretchgoals, it might not have any affect. So I'm not condemning DF for not doing extra goals. Nevertheless, they should have made a more interesting update.

 

[Grunker]

"We can't do stretch goals. We're not sure where we are gonna go."

Uh-huh. No kidding.

 

[evdk]

"We can't do stretch goals. We're not sure where we are gonna go."

Uh-huh. No kidding.

They not only have no clear budget plan as is the DF tradition, they seem to have no plan at all. When they made those whiteboard doodles in the video it was obviously the entirety of their design bible.

"Send us more money, we'll make some shit up as we go along"

Jesus Christ.

 

[tuluse]

I think they were very upfront about this being an experimental game. It's hard to fault them for not having a clear idea of what the final product will look like. It strikes me that this is probably more along the lines of what kickstarter purists would like to see.

 

[felipepepe]

Amazing... they propose "we make game!", internet gives them 750k in a week, and all they add is "we still make game!" (also exclusive backer item). Not sure what's worse, Double Fine selling a game they have no idea how it will be, or people actually backing it up...

 

[evdk]

Amazing... they propose "we make game!", internet gives them 750k in a week, and all they add is "we still make game!" (also exclusive backer item). Not sure what's worse, Double Fine selling a game they have no idea how it will be, or people actually backing it up...

It worked the first time, didn't it.

 

[felipepepe]

Kickstarter and it's audience changed a lot since them, but it seems like all that changed here is that increased the prices on every tier and will take more money home...

 

[almondblight]

Now I wonder what would the inclusion brigade say to forcing the gay characters to sire offspring. The flames would probably reach the heavens.

That's what I don't get. You're already forcing people to marry and sire offspring:

Arrange marriage alliances to ensure your heroic bloodlines can handle any future combat situation.

And you can't do that with gay characters because...? They don't enjoy being forced to breed but heterosexuals love that kind of thing? Either:

A: Leave it as it is - a silly abstraction.

B: Backtrack and replace it with some "you pick two teachers to train the apprentice" mechanic.

C: Go for full realism and be open about the fact that you can get powerful in the game by forcing your people to have sex against their will in order to further your eugenic goals.

 

[Tigranes]

That stretch goal paragraph is a laugh. It's textbook marketing language to avoid any and all responsibility, but so shittily done real marketers would laugh their arse off. (I would @ Vault Dweller but I always forget how to do it with names with spaces.)

That said, the weird thing is this - if you look at the initial KS pitch, yeah, there's not a lot of detail. But I'd say the amount of concrete game info is comparable to, well, a lot of other major game KS in the last two years. You get a general idea of the game and key features. if they namedropped a few games it would have as much detail as Project Eternity. I'm not surprised it's hit its goal, though I doubt it would surpass Broken Age like TTON did W2.

So what really is the source of the suspicion or bad feeling? That DF 'fucked up' with Broken Age? Or that they don't have a track record in this genre? (If so, is that any different from KSers that have not much of a track record at all? We didn't really know anything about Logic Artists, for example, when they did their KS. Yes, I know they had a gameplay video and all, I'm not comparing their entire KS.)

 

[pakoito]

Very pissed off by that video. They only have one "ideas guy" with a setup pitch but no design, no prototype, no fundamentals or anything. And now they tell us they'll make a game based off community input, basically taking other people's work and sticking it together by their professional team.

Very unfocused, I'd rather have Brazen instead. PC Monster Hunter? I'm in.

 

[tuluse]

Tigranes, I just think the codex isn't the target for Double Fine. However, they are asking for an order of magnitude more money than Logic Artists did.

 

[Infinitron]

Tigranes There's nothing to forget. Just put the @ next to the name, including the spaces.

 

[20 Eyes]

That stretch goal paragraph is a laugh. It's textbook marketing language to avoid any and all responsibility, but so shittily done real marketers would laugh their arse off.

I disagree. Stretchgoals are usually just bullshit with made up numbers attached to them anyways. They said they'd just use the money to make the game better, which to me is better than STRETCH GOAL 13: GIVE US 100,000 US DOLLARS MORE AND WE'LL MAKE TWO NEW WEAPONS AND DESIGN ONE MORE DUNGEON FLOOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least I don't feel as much like I'm being spoken to by an advertisement.

Very pissed off by that video. They only have one "ideas guy" with a setup pitch but no design, no prototype, no fundamentals or anything. And now they tell us they'll make a game based off community input, basically taking other people's work and sticking it together by their professional team.

Very unfocused, I'd rather have Brazen instead. PC Monster Hunter? I'm in.

Someone will always find something to bitch about. You say you'll listen to the community and now the devs are just stealing your ideas and lack focus of their own. You don't listen to the community and then people bitch about how they're not being listened to. It's pretty fucking simple, if you have a problem with DoubleFine listening to your suggestion, just keep it to yourself. Those that want to offer their voice are free to do so. I don't care that much, so I doubt I'll be suggesting anything.

The Codex finds anything to complain about, as usual.

 

[felipepepe]

On related news, I think I'm close to be banned from Double Fine's forum.

Dude, you came here from a massively homophobic forum (and it is a massively homophobic forum, I read the whole thing and it’s sickening - if you’re fine with the sorts of things being written in that thread then I’m completely comfortable calling you homophobic too) with the intent to stir up trouble. Whatever your motivations, that is not what we do here.

How I hate magical ponyland forums, where offensive words are automatically censored and any oposition is trolling... they make the Watch sound badass.

 

[evdk]

Tigranes There's nothing to forget. Just put the ampersand next to the name, including the spaces.

That's not an ampersand. This is an ampersand &

On related news, I think I'm close to be banned from Double Fine's forum.

Dude, you came here from a massively homophobic forum (and it is a massively homophobic forum, I read the whole thing and it’s sickening - if you’re fine with the sorts of things being written in that thread then I’m completely comfortable calling you homophobic too) with the intent to stir up trouble. Whatever your motivations, that is not what we do here.

How I hate magical ponyland forums, where offensive words are automatically censored and any oposition is trolling... they make the Watch sound badass.

Is that armchair moderation or actual moderation? Because if it's the latter then oh em gee.

 

[Tigranes]

Tigranes, I just think the codex isn't the target for Double Fine. However, they are asking for an order of magnitude more money than Logic Artists did.

Both true. I only just began to care Vault Dweller even a little bit about this, so have no idea how the waters are generally (though that's always hard to figure out unless there is Vault Dweller great outrage).

That stretch goal paragraph is a laugh. It's textbook marketing language to avoid any and all responsibility, but so shittily done real marketers would laugh their arse off.

I disagree. Stretchgoals are usually just bullshit with made up numbers attached to them anyways. They said they'd just use the money to make the game better, which to me is better than STRETCH GOAL 13: GIVE US 100,000 US DOLLARS MORE AND WE'LL MAKE TWO NEW WEAPONS AND DESIGN ONE MORE DUNGEON FLOOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least I don't feel as much like I'm being spoken to by an advertisement.

I agree stretch Vault Dweller goals are iffy, but you don't feel like you're being spoken to by an ad? Really? I feel like that paragraph was entirely written by the worst of the New York coffee-sipping beanie-topped Marketing undergrad who left his brain in a vat of Absolut Vault Dweller the night before.

 

[Infinitron]

felipepepe's posts start from here: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/9301/P150/#276712

EJECT! EJECT! I bet DF's forums have the same moderation policy as TVTropes.

 

[evdk]

felipepepe's posts start from here: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/9301/P150/#276712

EJECT! EJECT! I bet DF's forums have the same moderation policy as TVTropes.

They are moderating according to google ad money?

 

[Infinitron]

BTW felipe it's spelled "muslim" in English.

 

[Tigranes]

Tom Driscoll. Where do I know that name? I can't figure it out. o_O

felipepepe Let's focus on the most interesting part of that, which is, should such politically charged questions be left out of the games altogether. Common strategies espoused by Internet Warriors are:
(1) Only put things in if they make sense in the game. Except they're the ones making the game from scratch, so they could easily, at this point, make gays or Brazilians 'make sense'... or not. So how do you decide?
(2) Only put it in insofar as it enriches the game. Well the problem is if you put too little effort in it mechanics wise it's a silly gimmick that looks even more like a random political agenda-pushing. If you put a lot of effort in it, well, someone could always argue everything gay heroes bring to the table could be done another way, and so, the question returns: how do you decide whether to implement such things through gays, or not?
(3) One kind of political question should not be unduly privileged over another through agenda-pushing. Aside from the irony that this is precisely how aid, NGOs, art, etc. work these days in representing minorities, is there an inherent reason that a gay guy wanting gays to be in the game is bad? i.e. if they have a suggestion that may benefit the game generally, then why is it any different from a turn-based player wanting turn-based combat?

Obviously, we don't even need to go this far in cases where the gay guy just wants gays even if it doesn't fit in the existing game vision and adds nothing to gameplay. I don't know if that's the case or not here because I haven't paid enough attention to Massive Chalice. But in cases where it could fit and could add to gameplay (and arguably this can both be the case for MC's main premise of hero-breeding) - how do you decide when it's OK to consider such questions of representation, and when it's not?