Considering yourself better that others always get you flak, everywhere and at anytime
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Dragon Age: Inquisition Pre-Release Thread
- Thread starter Morgoth
- Start date
Considering yourself better that others always get you flak, everywhere and at anytime
eremita
Savant
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- Sep 1, 2013
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- 797
That's not the point. This only concerned NWN2 OC, so it doesn't matter what other games they produced.
- Joined
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Weekes told Sawyer that he was a writer of "masturbatory fantasy indulgence" and therefore no different from him. An accusation like that should take Sawyer's entire output into account, not just one game (which he was only in charge of for a brief period of time - I'll be charitable and say that perhaps Weeks was not aware of that)
Delterius
Arcane
Keep in mind you are telling this to a community that highly regards certain games with romance, such as Planescape: Torment and Mask of the Betrayer.
When people criticize Romance they generally do it for two reasons. Either as a generalization of their personal wants and needs or as a criticism of certain studios' priority list. The former is indeed silly and would be reproachable if only it wasn't a standard of discourse in the Internet. Just about everyone presents or has presented themselves as the mouthpiece for a given supposed group (HARDCORE GAMERS want X! The people deserve Y!) and just about everyone who isn't foolish knows to treat their input as the individuals that they are. On the other hand, the latter is a bit more agreeable.
Open the BioWare forums at any time and you'll realize that gameplay and mechanics are of limited concern. Aside from swooping generalizations about the quality of DA:O and DA2 and wether or not one particular poster wants the third game's combat to be more like one or the other, the real priorities of the community lies in setting consumerism.
They are fanchildren of a given commercial fantasy setting, Thedas, and want to consume as much as they can about it, be it in future storylines or little tidbits from the developers. More specifically, the political arrangements of the world are but a sideshow, what BioWare's core fanbase truly wants when they buy games and booklets is to fuck imaginary characters. This is all the more curious because it is hidden behind a facade of interesting storytelling and the image of AWARD WINNING MASTER STORYTELLER® BioWare.
After all, if you live under a rock called Mainstream Gaming and all you know is current AAA productions, you might as well fool yourself that BioWare is the most interesting writer in the industry, when in truth they aren't that good. What sets them apart is that their stories are just much more elaborate than those of most other AAA productions. And what sets them apart, in truth, for the fans, is that there will be a Grand Gamut of fuckable sockpuppets.
Now, to make the argument that this shift of priorities in their storytelling caused a drop in quality for most BioWare games -- after all, the aforementioned facade seems to be a important reason why mainstream media makes so many excuses for Dragon Age 2 and even Mass Effect 3 -- DA2 had a 'great story' in spite of 'a few issues in the weird realms of gameplay' while Mass Effect 3 apparently had an amazingly awesome story all the way to the ending -- to say that growing focus on romances, which comes from a long lineage that runs all the way to Baldur's Gate 1, ruined BioWare games is a much more difficult argument.
Indeed, for all we know the EA buyout was a bit more important than that. Hell, considering their actual repertoire, I'm inclined to say BioWare always sucked and that BG2 was a lucky find. However, what I do say is that when you open a forums you can tell its tone by searching its megathreads. In the Codex the threads are about the whole of games. In the BSN, you will find hundreds of pages for actual romances and thousands more for the proposed romances of the future -- secondary NPCs taken apart and reimagined by the horny minds of fankids. In my mind, this should at least be considered a symptom of the BioWare Decline.
Stainless Veteran
Arcane
Well, another problem is that Bioware for some reason thinks that BSNtards are their core audience, while in reality this isn't the case even if we look at their own stats. For example,
and this trend actually continues from ME1&2,
most players chose male dudebro Sheppard, and played as soldier, many players actually haven't completed the game and skipped dialogues. I've had DA statistics too somewhere, and generally they share similarities with ME ones - i.e. male PC, fighter class etc, main difference was that less people completed DA:O.
Not an ideal audience, sure, mostly it's standard issue console kiddies, I think. But while it's certainly not a hardcore RPG crowd, it's way better than your average romance obsessed SJW gay-mer. So while it's understandable why they aren't catering to us — oldschool RPG connoisseurs, it's really mystifying why they've obviously decided to cater not to dudebros, but to tumblr landwhales.
I mean, one can only look at these tumblr blogsanddespair purge them with holy promethium.
img]
etc., etc.
Gah.
and this trend actually continues from ME1&2,
most players chose male dudebro Sheppard, and played as soldier, many players actually haven't completed the game and skipped dialogues. I've had DA statistics too somewhere, and generally they share similarities with ME ones - i.e. male PC, fighter class etc, main difference was that less people completed DA:O.
Not an ideal audience, sure, mostly it's standard issue console kiddies, I think. But while it's certainly not a hardcore RPG crowd, it's way better than your average romance obsessed SJW gay-mer. So while it's understandable why they aren't catering to us — oldschool RPG connoisseurs, it's really mystifying why they've obviously decided to cater not to dudebros, but to tumblr landwhales.
I mean, one can only look at these tumblr blogsand
etc., etc.
Gah.
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People should realize already that romances are not bad in itself and that feminism (non militant) gay romance is inclusion, no matter the agenda.
It is only too bad bioware will make it typical pompous grimdark over-saturated eyebleed.
My point- many repressed homosexuals in this thread.
Most people -- even most Codex posters -- are perfectly fine with the idea of gay romance being included in the game. As with most things in life, the recent problems ala Bioware have been in the execution. They simply cannot understand that good characters are characters first, and their sexual proclivities come after that. Defining a person by their orientation first is a practical guarantee that you don't know what the fuck you're doing, that the characterization is going so suck. Most normal people -- gay or straight -- are turned off by this hamfisted approach to writing, which under close examination appears to be more fanservice pandering than anything else.
That's the problem. I don't give a fuck if there is a gay person in the game, really I don't. And if the inclusion of that person makes life a little easier for some poor kid who is getting bullied at school because he is gay, but he can fire up his video game at home and feel like he's not alone in the universe, that is fucking great. I love that. Just as an example, how many Codex posters were huge fucking nerds in their youth, and how many posters found solace and comfort in the ability to escape into another world, where they could be a knight or a wizard or some other thing? I wouldn't want to deny that feeling to anyone, regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, or whatever.
But again, the problem is in the approach. When you introduce your token gay character to the world with a slide that talks about him LOOKING FABULOUS! you've already lost. You already don't get it. You've already made a terrible mistake. It doesn't matter if a few uncritical gaming idiots who never read and who have the cultural sophistication of sea cucumbers think it is great because HE'S GAY!! You're doing harm to the medium by perpetrating such obvious schlock. Is it too much to ask that our game writers start approaching the task of writing games as a serious endeavor, instead of writing out of their identities as failed comic book authors and Joss Whedon fans?
Well, another problem is that bioware for some reason thinks that BSNtards are their core audience, while in reality this isn't the case even if we look on their own stats. For example,
and this trend actually continues from ME1&2,
most players chose male dudebro Sheppard, and played as soldier, many players actually haven't completed the game and skipped dialogues. I've had DA statistics too somewhere, and generally they share similarities with ME ones - i.e. male PC, fighter class etc, main difference was that less people completed DA:O.
RE: the 18% played as femshep stat, I've seen Bio-drones on BSN seriously claim that the reason why more people didn't play as her was because of "lack of marketing", ie people were too dimwitted, illiterate or blind to select the female option in character creator without a marketer telling them too. Lol!
Onholyservicebound
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1,567
My woman says the female Shepard sounds like a 40 year old lesbian who wants people to know that she pees standing up. Why anyone would want to play that is beyond me.
Stainless Veteran
Arcane
Yep, I remembered her since her Quest for Glory 4 Katrina role. She was really awesome as FFG and Deionarra in PST. It's actually uncomfortable to play as Dudebro Shepard after Fem!Shep, he sounds as somewhat more advanced Microsoft Sam in comparison.
Stainless Veteran
Arcane
Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if consoletards really were that retarded, honestly. Still, I don't actually think that's the case here.
BioWare's audience is still overwhelmingly male. People should remember that when an organization like the ESA puts out their data for the year, and they claim that 50% of gamers are women, they are including dumb ass casual mobile games in that number. When it comes to casual gaming, males and females are about equal. When it comes to games like FPSs and RPGs, the audiences are still overwhelmingly male.
Stefan Vujovic
Educated
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2013
- Messages
- 93
Faith in humanity restored... wait what?!? d fuck...
Guy dreaming about being a fat dwarf, alteast its something new, i guess...
hoverdog
dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
Onholyservicebound
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2013
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- 1,567
Decado
Am I supposed to know who either of those are?
I do know that they say similar things on the Bioware forum, once you go fem!shep you never go back, much more emotional performance, etc. As if having a very defined personality behind a player defined character is a good thing, I'd take microsoft sam or no voice at all, thanks. Not that I was comparing, because I wouldn't play a woman in any case, just that I echo the sentiments of my woman when I hear the performance in various youtube videos.(And hey, the age was spot on.)
fix'd.
Am I supposed to know who either of those are?
I do know that they say similar things on the Bioware forum, once you go fem!shep you never go back, much more emotional performance, etc. As if having a very defined personality behind a player defined character is a good thing, I'd take microsoft sam or no voice at all, thanks. Not that I was comparing, because I wouldn't play a woman in any case, just that I echo the sentiments of my woman when I hear the performance in various youtube videos.(And hey, the age was spot on.)
fix'd.
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- Dec 5, 2013
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- 120
It's actually much simpler than that. The mainstream audience gravitates towards games and plays them based on what they are "suggested". The original official trailer for ME3, even the game boxes, portray the hero as Dude Shep, so that's how folks think this is the way the game is "meant to be played". If they're blasted ad-nauseam with million-dollar trailers featuring Male Shep... 2+2=4
(There is also the more minor concern of knowing you're about to play a Bioware game where every character is a disposable waifu. You'd be surprised how many dudes prefer to play female protagonists for whatever reason, however that becomes a lot less enticing when you know your role-playing experience is going to get shit on by watching your protagonist get solicited for booty in the most juvenile, hamfisted manner possible.)
This is just one of the many important reasons why we need indie/semi-indie gaming; AAA tends to target the demographic with the least critical thinking skills (and defined preferences), which has the unfortunate side-effect of creating a never-ending cycle of unicorn riding, where the audience grows up wanting "more of the same".
Stainless Veteran
Arcane
Knut
Educated
- Joined
- May 24, 2014
- Messages
- 86
real fairytale here is claiming people are equal. there is a whole different world(s) beside West in which equality exists (on paper). but let's stick to the games-> representation is ok, no matter what the current political movements are. but that they should be quality material integrated into rpg experience (not its focus)- on that we agree
well i guess being edgy is not my thing, i had mostly a few people in mind, not the whole community.
but i could not agree more with what you've said, terrible writing and shallow charaters are the real problem here. BUT at the same time, there is no denying bioware is a mainstream company and produces mass product representative of wider audiences. because it is highly unlikely AAA industy will suddenly evaporate, and romances are here to stay because of high demand, i'm at least glad someone remembered to pander to us fags also. although it's not like that resulted in great and interesting game (which i will play in the and anyway it's like a guilty-pleasure trip to idiot-land).
in any case, here, have a brofist
Stainless Veteran
Arcane
Well, I wouldn't be surprised, when I played MMOs, only in EVE Online and Perpetuum there were almost no guys in guild/corp who'd play a female, and even that's mainly because a character in those games was mainly seen in a spaceship or robot anyway. In all fantasy MMOs guy characters to girl characters percentage was roughly 2/3. Guys in my opinion tend to much less identify themselves with the character they are playing in any videogame, and straight males are much more happy to watch female char's T&A than spacemarine dudebro#999's one.It's actually much simpler than that. The mainstream audience gravitates towards games and plays them based on what they are "suggested". The original official trailer for ME3, even the game boxes, portray the hero as Dude Shep, so that's how folks think this is the way the game is "meant to be played". If they're blasted ad-nauseam with million-dollar trailers featuring Male Shep... 2+2=4
(There is also the more minor concern of knowing you're about to play a Bioware game where every character is a disposable waifu. You'd be surprised how many dudes prefer to play female protagonists for whatever reason, however that becomes a lot less enticing when you know your role-playing experience is going to get shit on by watching your protagonist get solicited for booty in the most juvenile, hamfisted manner possible.)
This is just one of the many important reasons why we need indie/semi-indie gaming; AAA tends to target the demographic with the least critical thinking skills (and defined preferences), which has the unfortunate side-effect of creating a never-ending cycle of unicorn riding, where the audience grows up wanting "more of the same".
But - the younger the audience, the less this trend shows. Teens tend to identify themselves with their characters way more than adults, and teen guys really like space mahreens. Consoletards as a whole are younger than PC master race, so that's another factor adding to prevalence of male characters' in Bio "RPGs".
Another one is, that teenage girls and females who're stuck at mentality of 14 year olds really like idealized version of gay relationships, yaoi, slash and such shit. So some female RPG players definitely are playing as a male character on easy mode just to experience ~pure doki-doki homo love~.
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Onholyservicebound
Arcane
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- Jul 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1,567
You know how many morons have unsuccessfuly tried to use this signature against me? Don't even think about it, bub.
And you're one of them, because only a fucking moron thinks that being familiar with the actor is relevant to having an opinion on their performance.
It may have something to do with the fact that the people running the show are romance-obsessed SJW gaymers and tumblr landwhales. Good for them for doing what they want instead of what makes the most money, but heads are going to roll if DA:I doesn't sell.
Azrael the cat
Arcane
Isn't 40 about the right age for Shepard?
...and given her field assignments, being able to pee standing up is probably a skill that's worth learning
Just think of it as a skill-tree that you don't have to manually put points into because it's so useful that nobody would neglect to max it ('immunity to STDs' and 'can wear the same armour for entire space campaigns without it reeking' are on the same skill branch).
Azrael the cat
Arcane
Are they, though? I usually think so as well, but to play devil's advocate, consider this. The bones they through at the BSN deviants seem fairly inexpensive, and the romances themselves don't seem like they're massive resource pits. They consist of around 12 lines of dialogue per character on top of that which the NPC would have otherwise, using a voice actor that they've already hired to come in. All of that dialogue is walled off from the rest of the game, so they don't have to change anything else to implement it. Almost all of it takes place in the same 'downtime' hub (or hubs) where the rest of the 'catching up with the various party members' dialogue occurs (onboard the Normandy, the campfire in DA:O, etc), and with awkward DA:O sex scenes aside, it uses animations that are already there.
Nor does it involve much in the way of complex triggers/branching of the kind needed to make dialogue quests like those in PS:T work. The romances all have just one path, and if you 'exit' that path there's no way of getting back on it.
'Content' that consists of nothing but a few extra lines of dialogue would be an absolute bargain, even if there aren't all that many players who care about it.
It's possible that we (and the BSN) get a skewed view of things from the fact that it's the writers that seem most inclined to communicate directly with the community, and from shitty gaming sites who buy into the 'BW are great writers' nonsense interviewing the writing team as though they're the lead designers. Mind you, the emphasis upon 'epic story' and 'romance' in BW's official PR would seem to indicate that it truly is the company's focus.
Onholyservicebound
Arcane
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- 1,567
Not according to Google.
You must have gotten that impression from playing too much femshep.
Stainless Veteran
Arcane
But I just did. But an uneducated opinion of your female friend is a God-given truth, eh? 2013 was a shitty year for newfags, indeed.And you're one of them, because only a fucking moron thinks that being familiar with the actor is relevant to having an opinion on their performance.
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