Dragon Age - official Codex verdict

[Volourn]

"Never played Darklands or Realms of Arkania: Star Trail now did you?"

Don't be a moron. Please reread what you quote and THINK before spouting your bullshit.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

KotC is a completly different type of game, it's turn-based and it's DnD - magic is not mana based.

Yeah, and it's actually good and didn't require a massive amount of resources to make it. It's fun, tactical, fast-paced and weirdly charming vs. DA's boring, repetitive, slow and tasteless.

Yep, I agree KotC is terrific, I love it.

I don't agree with you about DA though - I'm having a hell of a lot of fun with it. Shit, I'm not a masochist, I wouldn't be still playing it if weren't.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Unlike some of the yougsters around here, I accept that times change. The game industry is not what it used to be - and never will be again. It's no longer a niche industry who's primary demographic was fat, pastey, pimply face nerds dwelling in their parents basements (like you I'm betting). It's a multi-billion dollar industry, that now has to cater to the masses.

There is no acceptance, there is only Codex.

I should leave it at the dumb one-liner, but we have to accept nothing (and whether or not we do means little), instead we adapt. Some, like you, change their standards (well, that's what I think you do but correct me if you want) and others move to greener pastures (genres that they haven't tried or that haven't softened, for example board games or 2D platformers), quit gaming or only replay stuff, etc. However games are a luxury and nothing forces you to like or play new RPG's if they don't fit your standards, and complaining about stuff is the favourite hobby of pretty much everyone so why not do it?

And should the video game industry die, there's no telling how it would re-emerge.

Yep, I agree KotC is terrific, I love it.

I don't agree with you about DA though - I'm having a hell of a lot of fun with it. Shit, I'm not a masochist, I wouldn't be still playing it if weren't.

Yeah, you do that, I'm just saying that from a gameplay perspective (I like the artwork and music more too, personally), KotC is much better. And I don't think a mainstream game made in it's fashion would necessarily be a failure, critics that would honestly hate it could always be bribed and if it got good scores, there shouldn't be any reason why players wouldn't buy it. Not that critically acclaimed good games always sell.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Failing at reading comprehension seems to be the very popular new shit on the Codex.
I'll repeat a game - what's the point in having a real-time combat when it turns into an uncontrollable mess unless you constantly twitch the pause key?

To control more than one character at the same time.

Yes bad example.

TB is superior for party-based games, RT is superior for single-char games. That's how it always worked and works the best.
Good party based game always provide complex and in-depth micromanagement which is very tedious in real-time. That's why all real-time party-based games are so simplistic and/or dumbed down.

Those are bad examples because its easy to put that stuff in realtime combat. Basically I framed the argument with softballs. I didn't do it intentionally. I really have to bend my mind to think of stuff that you can do in a TB game that you cant do in RT especially with the option to pause the game.

Why is micromanagement tedious when the game is paused or do you not consider any RT combat that has a pause function RT combat?

 

[Dnny]

God, dragon age truly is the successor of "BG2" in that they took the worst parts of that game and cranked them up to eleven. Spellhold wasn't boring enough ? here comes the mage tower quest full with shapeshifting puzzles experience and boring encounters. I nearly liked that game in the beginning and I nearly uninstalled it after that quest. I hope there won't be any other fetchy quest of that scale. Oblivion wasn't enough of a walking simulator ?

At the very least, Spellhold had a nice feeling of mystery even though in the end it was just a boring fetchquestland, this one in DA is the epitome of boring, shit, boring shit.

 

[Grunker]

God, dragon age truly is the successor of "BG2" in that they took the worst parts of that game and cranked them up to eleven. Spellhold wasn't boring enough ? here comes the mage tower quest full with shapeshifting puzzles experience and boring encounters. I nearly liked that game in the beginning and I nearly uninstalled it after that quest. I hope there won't be any other fetchy quest of that scale. Oblivion wasn't enough of a walking simulator ?

At the very least, Spellhold had a nice feeling of mystery even though in the end it was just a boring fetchquestland, this one in DA is the epitome of boring, shit, boring shit.

The Fade-quest in the tower is the most boring piece of... well, boring, I give you that. But... Just wait till you go to Orzammar.

The mage's tower itself is enjoyable, only the fade-part is agonizing.

All in all, mage's tower and Orzammar are exceptions.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

God, dragon age truly is the successor of "BG2" in that they took the worst parts of that game and cranked them up to eleven. Spellhold wasn't boring enough ? here comes the mage tower quest full with shapeshifting puzzles experience and boring encounters. I nearly liked that game in the beginning and I nearly uninstalled it after that quest. I hope there won't be any other fetchy quest of that scale. Oblivion wasn't enough of a walking simulator ?

At the very least, Spellhold had a nice feeling of mystery even though in the end it was just a boring fetchquestland, this one in DA is the epitome of boring, shit, boring shit.

Ha, I just listened to a podcast over at 'quartertothree', where Tom Chick and Desslock spend about forty minutes talking about DA:O and their first full play-throughs.

They spent about five minutes talking about the Fade part of the Circle Tower quest line you mention, as they both agreed it was one of their most favorite parts of the game.

I enjoyed it quite a bit too as it changed things up a bit. Just a matter of taste I guess

 

[Volourn]

Fade is fuckin' awesome. One of the best parts of the game so fuck off.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

Fade is fuckin' awesome. One of the best parts of the game so fuck off.

The fade is a rip off like most things in this D. Gaider circle jerk.

R00fles.

 

[Castanova]

Yeah, I liked the Fade portion quite a bit. I do admit it was a bit on the lengthy side but it was a great change of pace from standard dungeon crawling and I loved the shape-changing aspect. It was almost like an homage to something like Metroid or Symphony of the Night.

So far my least favorite aspect of the game is traveling on the world map which, for some reason, takes FOREVER.

 

[Silellak]

Yeah, I liked the Fade portion quite a bit. I do admit it was a bit on the lengthy side but it was a great change of pace from standard dungeon crawling and I loved the shape-changing aspect. It was almost like an homage to something like Metroid or Symphony of the Night.

So far my least favorite aspect of the game is traveling on the world map which, for some reason, takes FOREVER.

Yeah, I thought that exact same thing during the Fade portion too. Like a mini-Metroid homage.

I agree about the world map, too. While it's nice to see a World Map complete with Random Encounters in a modern game, they could easily double the map travel speed and it wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[Volourn]

"The fade is a rip off like most things in this D. Gaider circle jerk.

R00fles."

Your post is a rip off of KC's. R00fles!


" I loved the shape-changing aspect. It was almost like an homage to something like Metroid or Symphony of the Night. "

More like HOTU.

World map speed is fine. Seriosuly, people are such crybabies about the stupidest stuff ever. FFS Get over it. So, you are speedy gonzalez. Big fuckin' deal.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Unlike some of the yougsters around here, I accept that times change. The game industry is not what it used to be - and never will be again. It's no longer a niche industry who's primary demographic was fat, pastey, pimply face nerds dwelling in their parents basements (like you I'm betting). It's a multi-billion dollar industry, that now has to cater to the masses.

There is no acceptance, there is only Codex.

I should leave it at the dumb one-liner, but we have to accept nothing (and whether or not we do means little), instead we adapt. Some, like you, change their standards (well, that's what I think you do but correct me if you want) and others move to greener pastures (genres that they haven't tried or that haven't softened, for example board games or 2D platformers), quit gaming or only replay stuff, etc. However games are a luxury and nothing forces you to like or play new RPG's if they don't fit your standards, and complaining about stuff is the favourite hobby of pretty much everyone so why not do it?

Yeah, my comments were more directed at those like skyway (aka MetalCraze) who seem to tear every game to pieces that was released since the turn of the century. That would be ok if not for a couple of things - they see no redeeming qualities at all - nada, ziltch - and this while usually never even installing them. And then they go on and on and on about it, littering every thread with their nonesense. I'm all for constructive critisisms and thought provoking discussiions - not that bullshit.

I didn't say you should accept anything, I said I accepted it. I also haven't lowerd my standards - I did mention I played and loved KotC didn't I? And I sill go back to the classics fairly regularly and have high hopes for the indies. But I also try to make the best out of what the majors are delivering atm too (unless it truely is complete and utter garbage). I would love to see a game like DA:O with TB combat and a more open world with more C&C, but that just isn't gonna happen in the foreseeable future - so I enjoy the good bits and try to ignore the bits that annoy me. To suggest that every single part of the game is complete and utter shit like some around here do - I find just as obnoxious as those who think it's the second comming.

Yep, I agree KotC is terrific, I love it.

I don't agree with you about DA though - I'm having a hell of a lot of fun with it. Shit, I'm not a masochist, I wouldn't be still playing it if weren't.

Yeah, you do that, I'm just saying that from a gameplay perspective (I like the artwork and music more too, personally), KotC is much better. And I don't think a mainstream game made in it's fashion would necessarily be a failure, critics that would honestly hate it could always be bribed and if it got good scores, there shouldn't be any reason why players wouldn't buy it. Not that critically acclaimed good games always sell.

Yep, I think they would sell ok, but not to the degree that the more 'accessable' (aka dumbed-down) games do now. Unfortunately, casual gamers outnumber the more discernable ones at a ratio of about 1000:1. A prime example - my brother has a 360 and is the epitomy of the casual gamer. When I showed him DA:O his response was - "I don't like games like that, too complicated - and what's with all teh reading? That would hurt my head. I like games I can just pick-up-and-play"

Unfortunately he represents the vocal and vast majority (and the publishers know it).

 

[Silellak]

"The fade is a rip off like most things in this D. Gaider circle jerk.

R00fles."

Your post is a rip off of KC's. R00fles!


" I loved the shape-changing aspect. It was almost like an homage to something like Metroid or Symphony of the Night. "

More like HOTU.

World map speed is fine. Seriosuly, people are such crybabies about the stupidest stuff ever. FFS Get over it. So, you are speedy gonzalez. Big fuckin' deal.

Think of it this way - if his biggest complaint is that world map travel speed is a bit too slow, that's pretty high praise for the rest of the game.

 

[MetalCraze]

AlaCarcuss can't stop deliver me quality lulz in the past few days. First DA is a dungeon crawler and now it isn't a casual game and he actually bitches about casual gamers while being one ("omg not having health regen is tedious!")

This is gold. You are my new favorite poster now, kind sir.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

AlaCarcuss can't stop deliver me quality lulz in the past few days. First DA is a dungeon crawler and now it isn't a casual game and he actually bitches about casual gamers while being one ("omg not having health regen is tedious!")

A lot of the game IS dungeon crawling - what the fuck would you call it then? (apart from shit). If IW:D is a dungeon crawler then so is this.

And No, it's not a casual game compared with a lot of it's contemporaries like ME etc (otherwise my brother would play it - he liked ME, but thinks DA is too hard-core, as I suspect do a lot of casual gamers).

I also never said not having health regen is tedious, a lot of game do very well without it - I said it could be tedious in DA due to the nature of the encounters. Comprehension check /fail.

This is gold. You are my new favorite poster now, kind sir.

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment (at least I'm poviding plenty of cannon fodder). :shock:

 

[MetalCraze]

A lot of the game IS dungeon crawling - what the fuck would you call it then?

So NWN2 is a dungeon crawler too? And NWN1? And VtmB Bloodlines? Or you really have no idea what you are talking about? You don't even know what dungeon crawlers are do you?

And No, it's not a casual game

It is. It has a typical set of your traditional console dumbing down - regen (that is even faster and harsher than the one in ME) and immortal party members. Even worse than KotOR. And KotOR is a one dumbed down game.

compared with a lot of it's contemporaries like ME etc

"ME etc" - those are lot of examples

(otherwise my brother would play it - he liked ME, but thinks DA is too hard-core, as I suspect do a lot of casual gamers).

Or maybe that's because your brother doesn't play anything besides shooters?
What does casual shooter have to do with a casual RPG? Why are you bringing it into a discussion anyway? Let's cut right to the deal and say that DA is more hardcore than Gears of War because you have to read meaningless one-liners. Or Call of Duty because you have to spend more than 2 seconds to regenerate.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Man you're hopeless.

 

[Grunker]

Man you're hopeless.

 

[Mortmal]

That being said, I too hate the dumbing down of our beloved RPG's, but it is what it is. Though, DA:O is a bit of a throw back to the old days in terms of length and complexity - at least compared to what we've had to deal with in the last few years, and Bioware should be congradulated for that.

Quite my opinion as well, some codexers hate it with blind rage but this game h as everything i like in old games. Tactical fights? yes they are , the evidence is many people are complaining the games is too hard while in fact its just normal compare to a BG2 game or a gold box game.
80 hour campaign? yes and more , ton of sidequests, some subtle choices and consequences as well, i agree lot of it is railroaded and you wont have the freedom of fallout 2 but its better than BG2.Its a computer game , what to expect.
Graphics? for me its wonderful visiting the mage tower was like visiting a medieval castle or a cathedral when i was a kid. I started playing video games on the c64 so i see the complexity and the years of works required to do it, maybe its not the top but for me its wonderful.
I cant judge the writing english isnt my native language as you noticed , but have you read the codex entries? i dont remember any game with so much text,so many details, so descriptive, and the dialogues are pretty good.
I was worried cause of the stupid ads and trailers we got pre launch and the fact magazines were not allowed to review dragon age before release except if they agreed to rate it over 90%.
But now i dare to say even if the locals here will stab me in the back that dragon age is amongst the best rpgs i ever played . It deserves it seat at the right side of god with planescape fallout 2, ultima7 and BG2.

 

[Redeye]

Can we use traps?
What about stealth bypassing of encounters?

Are there forced dialogues where the enemy is invulnerable until the scripts kick in?

Is there a clue-connector jigsaw puzzle system that will let me jump to conclusions and get to places before the railroad system would normally lead me there?

Is there Scooby Doo style handholdey exposition?

 

[RK47]

Traps Yes.

Stealth : I doubt it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe even if you stealth through the encounter, you'd still be triggering the boss talk before a fight anyway. This will force your party to drop out from stealth and talk to them a bit ala NWN 2.

As for investigation..uh..I duno, I'm a bit confused as to why I have to look for this 'mythical cure all' ashes of a dead saint for an ill king, when I supposedly have the culprit imprisoned. Why can't I ask the dude for the antidote?

 

[Grunker]

Can we use traps?
What about stealth bypassing of encounters?

Are there forced dialogues where the enemy is invulnerable until the scripts kick in?

Is there a clue-connector jigsaw puzzle system that will let me jump to conclusions and get to places before the railroad system would normally lead me there?

Is there Scooby Doo style handholdey exposition?

The one big thing which DA:O entirely fails at is exploration and handholding. That is to say, it holds your hand so badly you're in danger of breaking it. And it's a pretty fucking conscious choice too.

The potential for openness is there. As far as "spiritual successor to BG2" goes, it fails completely and utterly as far as that goes.

I don't agree with those who think DA:O is oldschool. It wears a cape of oldschoolness at best. The tactical combat being the prime example.

But make no assumptions: This game is entertainment. Nothing less, nothing more.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Honestly, I don't know why I bother with you, but anyway...

A lot of the game IS dungeon crawling - what the fuck would you call it then?

So NWN2 is a dungeon crawler too? And NWN1? And VtmB Bloodlines? Or you really have no idea what you are talking about? You don't even know what dungeon crawlers are do you?

Most of your time is spent crawling around dungeons dipshit. You never answered my question - what would you call it then and conversly what IS a dungeon crawler in your opinion? Most people refer to IWD 1+2 as dungeon crawlers and I see a lot of similarities with DA:O. Dungeon Crawler isn't even a genre - it's a sub-class of RPG that some people like you, with an over exagerated opinion of their own self-importance, gave a label to.

And No, it's not a casual game

It is. It has a typical set of your traditional console dumbing down - regen (that is even faster and harsher than the one in ME) and immortal party members. Even worse than KotOR. And KotOR is a one dumbed down game.

I'd appreciate it if you'd keep my scentenses togeher so they retain some context. The operative phrase here is "compared with a lot of it's contemporaries". I didn't elaborate too much because I was trying to keep it short, but - compared to all previous Bioware games and most previous Bethesda games and to a lesser extent TW, Diablo, Sacred, Titan Quest and even Risen. Plenty of others released in the last few years too. I also don't know of many casual games that you can put 60-70 hrs into with no end in sight.

Immortal party members - WTF? I've seen the game over screen pleanty of times due to a wipe. In pretty much every post I've seen you make you refer to the regen as the prime example of the game's dumbing-down. FFS get over it will ya.

compared with a lot of it's contemporaries like ME etc

"ME etc" - those are lot of examples

See above...

(otherwise my brother would play it - he liked ME, but thinks DA is too hard-core, as I suspect do a lot of casual gamers).

Or maybe that's because your brother doesn't play anything besides shooters?
What does casual shooter have to do with a casual RPG? Why are you bringing it into a discussion anyway? Let's cut right to the deal and say that DA is more hardcore than Gears of War because you have to read meaningless one-liners. Or Call of Duty because you have to spend more than 2 seconds to regenerate.

No, he also liked Oblivion - see my point?

In DA he didn't like having to control more that one character at a time and to have to think about tactics and things like spell or ability combos. He didn't like the iso view - all games should be either 1st or 3rd person in his opinion. He didn't like all the dialog - too boring. He didn't like the lore or the story (who cares about the story in video games - is his view). When he watched me play he commented that he didn't like turn-based games - to him RTwP is turn-based. When he saw on my load save screen that I'd alread put 60+ hours into it and was nowhere near the end, his reaction was - "WTF? - how the hell can anyone put that much time into one game!"

Now that's a casual gamer.... :wink:

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Nah, this isn't a dungeon crawler. Dungeon crawler is a sub-genre that tends to show itself as having a hub where you rest, buy, sell, etc. and go into a dungeon. Having dungeon crawling, even a lot of it, does not equal dungeon crawler.

Still, Skyway is nitpicking and the prior point still stands: he has no fucking clue what he is talking about.