Dragon Age Dragon Age: The Veilguard Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Nano]

Her boobs already handle that for her.

 

[Delterius]

her boobs are like two extra characters

 

[Delterius]

In fact, it's starting to increasingly look like the Maker is just a distorted memory of the king of the Evanuris, and probably Andraste was possessed by the spirit of the Evanuris queen or whatever. The elves are literally behind everything! Such creativity!

I'm remembering shit from years ago but I think things go more or less like this:

The Ancient Elven Empire was little more than a lot of elves enslaved to the whims of their most powerful Mages.

Those Elven Gods achieved true immortality - inability to be destroyed - by somehow using Dragons as their phylacteries.

At one point the Elven Empires discovers the Titans and the ancient Dwarves. Former are giant magical creatures deep within the earth that bleed Lyrium, the latter being no more than their construct-children-immune system. Both communicate with 'singing' of the 'Stone', similar to how Darkspawn act.

One of the Elven Gods also killed a Titan. This most likely triggered the first instance of what we know as the Darkspawn. It's very possible that killing a Titan is how the Dragon - Elven God union achieves true immortality but there's no direct evidence of that.

When the Elven Gods were banished from the material world their phylacteries stayed behind as anchors. Those Dragons came to be worshiped by the northern humans.

Those humans would learn magic from their connection to the Dragons and would be used in an attempt to free the Evanuris from their prison. Doing so allowed the Darkspawn to find them and corrupt their Dragons.

The first of the corrupted Dragons to fall, Dumat, is said to have been killed around the time Andraste was born. She would therefore be an Old God child, whatever relationship between the Evanuris, their Dragon minions and the Titan being purified from the Darkspawn taint and refined into a human being that is in tune with but not entirely understanding of certain fundamental truths about this universe.

Andraste is also an Alamarri, meaning she's a southern human who did not worship the Old Gods but rather retained portions of her people's distinct spirituality. These southerners saw no distinction between what would be a God or a Spirit. They also believe that mortals and Gods alike can die and reincarnate. Simply put if these ancient humans were to cry out for a God that is The God and The Creator of the Universe and a commensurate Spirit/Demon/Whatever answered that call they'd see no contradiction in terms. Thus, the spreading of the Chant of Light giving birth to the Market Warhammer Chaos God Style or simply causing this absentee creator to return to the world are pretty much the same thing.

After Andraste's death a number of Cults of the Maker spread throught the continent. At times persecuted, eventually elevated as state religion. These early andrastians were decentralized to the extreme and only held together by oral traditions, some resembling artifacts of Tevinter slave culture that date to centuries before Andraste herself was born.

Two hundred years after that the first Orlesian Emperor creates the united Chantry and forces the disparate Cults of the Maker to create a religious orthodoxy. That's the Chant.

Finally, History has been obfuscated over centuries/millennia due to post post apocalyptic nature of the setting. Each culture is built on the deliberately misunderstood bones of whoever came before since those organizations/orders/brotherhoods first tasked with putting the world back together felt the need to hide shit below the carpet. When the Elven Gods killed the Titan whatever they unleashed was just sealed into the Earth. When Tevinter was founded they were deliberately bamboozled by their dragon gods. When the first inquisitors and post Tevinter kings had to pacify the continent after the first and second blights, they felt it was better to obfuscate and quell any and all sources of knowledge of the forbidden demonic power that was everywhere back in the day.

Assuming I'm right about half of this the real problem, to me, isn't that the setting likes to demystify itself. It's that every time it does so it points to this rather sleek and straightforward story of how everything went down. It's an ancient conspiracy by an Elven God and Witches and Bishops and the like to try and redeem or at least survive the original sins of those ancient elven gods. This leaves no room for doubt, faith or an absentee God that does not seem to but could be I dunno intervening in the world.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

What about Isabella in DA2, she is definitely redeemable

Do not redeem anon! Do not!

 

[Orud]

Modern day Bioware is all Bioware's own doing. Read a few articles about the development of Anthem; EA gave them a blank check and Bioware's leadership completely fucked things up without EA's intervention. Same with Bullfrog; EA took them over and gave them a blank check to keep doing what they were doing. Bullfrog's management however didn't know what to do with so much money and not having to fight to survive, so they squandered it all for years.

Now, I don't like EA for one bit, but in many situations they only sent in their own people to take charge after the old staff fucked things up.

 

[Sykar]

What about Isabella in DA2, she is definitely redeemable

Do not redeem anon! Do not!

Why not? There are at least two good reasons to.

Also the game is complete garbage so have some fun at least that way!

 

[Orud]

What about Isabella in DA2, she is definitely redeemable

The only redeemable thing about that idiot was the bounty put on her head by the Qunari for stealing their stuff (and getting 200 slaves, that she boasts about liberating at the start, killed while running from the Qun). DA2 went out of their way of making most companions unlikable idiots that couldn't stand being called out for their behavior that screwed over other people.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Modern day Bioware is all Bioware's own doing. Read a few articles about the development of Anthem; EA gave them a blank check and Bioware's leadership completely fucked things up without EA's intervention.

They did want multi player anon over single player anon but they did zero player anon! They did!

 

[Skinwalker]

Those Elven Gods achieved true immortality - inability to be destroyed - by somehow using Dragons as their phylacteries.

That's an interesting idea, that I don't think is anywhere in DA.

Those humans would learn magic from their connection to the Dragons and would be used in an attempt to free the Evanuris from their prison. Doing so allowed the Darkspawn to find them and corrupt their Dragons.

Except, the darkspawn taint seems to have been inside the Not-So-Golden City, in the fade, and turned the magisters into darkspawn, and they subsequently corrupted the dragon gods... apparently. No sign of the Evanuris in there, as far as Corypheus can remember.

The first of the corrupted Dragons to fall, Dumat, is said to have been killed around the time Andraste was born. She would therefore be an Old God child

Another weird idea that is not anywhere in the lore. Archdemons don't automatically turn into "old god child", that was a special thing created for the fifth archdemon by Flemeth (depending on player choice). Normally their souls are annihilated.

Also, the lore behind Andraste seems to suggest that she was possessed by a (fragment of the) spirit of an Evanuris, probably Mythal.

 

[Delterius]

That's an interesting idea, that I don't think is anywhere in DA.

It's nothing confirmed. We know that Corypheus used the Archdemon as a phylactery. And we know the Evanuris were somehow immortal. There's indications that they harnessed dragons somehow and I believe that Solas speaks at one point of Corypheus having discovered 'the' secret of immortality. Wether it's all one and the same thing we cannot know at this point.

Except, the darkspawn taint seems to have been inside the Not-So-Golden City, in the fade, and turned the magisters into darkspawn, and they subsequently corrupted the dragon gods... apparently. No sign of the Evanuris in there, as far as Corypheus can remember.

Maybe, maybe not. Corypheus' testimony leaves a lot of room for clarification. He saw the throne of God and it was empty. The City itself was always dark, it's golden sheen from afar a mere illusion. But what exactly any of this means is up in the air. What we do know about the Darkspawn taint itself however connects back to the Titans. They are the 'Stone' which sings to the Dwarves in the same way that the Taint sings to the Darkspawn. Both the Darkspawn and the Ancient Dwarves seem to form a hivemind around that. The Titans are the source of Lyrium and the Darkspawn corrupt that into Red Lyrium. And we know that when the Elven Gods killed a Titan and mined it's body for lyrium they unleashed something fierce from deep within the earth. These things are likely connected. How exactly we cannot know.

Another weird idea that is not anywhere in the lore. Archdemons don't automatically turn into "old god child", that was a special thing created for the fifth archdemon by Flemeth (depending on player choice). Normally their souls are annihilated.

That is a widespread old theory based around the fact that Andraste was born around the same time Dumat died, the fact that her life was guided by figures that are similar to the witches of the wild, and how nowhere it appears was it recorded which hero slayed Dumat. It is also based around certain revelations that the witches of the wild and Flemeth have been manipulating history from behind the scenes since forever and that Solas was most likely Shartan. As such the Dark Ritual from DA:O's could have been performed back then.

Also, the lore behind Andraste seems to suggest that she was possessed by a (fragment of the) spirit of an Evanuris, probably Mythal.

There are indications of that and this would definitely be the single biggest evidence of how terrible it is to constantly refer back to the elven gods. But one thing that makes Andraste seem like a distinct figure from Flemeth and Mythal is that Flemeth's line can give birth to sons. As in, Morrigan can. But Andraste's line is mythologized as being only women. Plus Flemeth/Mythal and Solas/Fen'harel/Shartan have been around since before Andraste. Hence the idea that her birth was engineered similar via Dumat's death.

 

[Nano]

DA2 went out of their way of making most companions unlikable idiots that couldn't stand being called out for their behavior that screwed over other people.

Isabela's rivalry path is literally about molding her to be less selfish and more aware of the consequences of her actions. DA2's companions are pretty terrible people, but it gives you plenty of opportunities to "call them out" on it.

Not that I think it's Isabela's fault anyway. Not her fault the Qunari decided to go full carnage on an entire city over some stupid book.

 

[Atlantico]

Not that I think it's Isabela's fault anyway. Not her fault the Qunari decided to go full carnage on an entire city over some stupid book.

Qun is a religion of peace bigot!

 

[Delterius]

DA2 went out of their way of making most companions unlikable idiots that couldn't stand being called out for their behavior that screwed over other people.

Isabela's rivalry path is literally about molding her to be less selfish and more aware of the consequences of her actions. DA2's companions are pretty terrible people, but it gives you plenty of opportunities to "call them out" on it.

That's the one thing about Dragon Age 2 that I always felt was pretty spot on. I remember Gaider saying back then that they didn't try to write characters everybody would like, but made an effort to let you call them out on their worse ideas. I didn't make it to DA2's chapter 2, but I distinctly remember a scene where Fenris is like 'you don't know my p a i n' and my character's response was along the lines of 'of course not you retard we just met'.

 

[Skinwalker]

my character's response was along the lines of 'of course not you retard we just met'.

Was it the "heroic", "humorous", or "angry" response type?

 

[Delterius]

my character's response was along the lines of 'of course not you retard we just met'.

Was it the "heroic", "humorous", or "angry" response type?

Positive it was the angry one. I think.

 

[Ravielsk]

Assuming I'm right about half of this the real problem, to me, isn't that the setting likes to demystify itself. It's that every time it does so it points to this rather sleek and straightforward story of how everything went down. It's an ancient conspiracy by an Elven God and Witches and Bishops and the like to try and redeem or at least survive the original sins of those ancient elven gods. This leaves no room for doubt, faith or an absentee God that does not seem to but could be I dunno intervening in the world.

Honestly it sounds like a classic case of "too many cooks in one kitchen". I get the impression that one guy started with a story about the Darkspawn and corrupted dragons and then another came in who wanted to tell the story of his super awesome E.L.F friends but had to do it in the framework of darkspawn and dragons and then maybe a third guy showed up and added the titans and dwarves cus they are cool. So now they have to somehow connect all these entirely separate ideas into one story/lore but since they are doing this sequentially and not all at once the just write over each other. So the end result is a story where the last writer in the line just makes it all about his super cool E.L.F friends and the rest is just warped around that one idea.

Or maybe Bioware guys are really into anime and think that tying every part of the universe to one guy/group constitutes good writing and not the shortcut sweaty mangakans take because of their even sweatier editors breathing down their collective necks.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

i find it amusing that the Elder scrolls is literally just a bunch of conflicting nonsense written by authors with biases on purpose and everyone goes "yay! deep lore!" and Dragon age does the exact same thing and people scream that the lore is being "raped" or whatever. ya'll dont know what you want

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

i find it amusing that the Elder scrolls is literally just a bunch of conflicting nonsense written by authors with biases on purpose and everyone goes "yay! deep lore!" and Dragon age does the exact same thing and people scream that the lore is being "raped" or whatever. ya'll dont know what you want

What! Elder Scrolls lore is based schizokino anon and you can distinction anon schizokino author anon from other POPAMOLE fantasy lore contributor author anon but I do CHALLENGE you anon distinction Dragon Age author lore anon from other lore contributor author anon because it is all from same Canadia California AIDS hovel! It is!

 

[vortex]

I would create new lore and new characters in DA4 and make Corypheus a party companion. He can come back trapped in human form with edgy banter how one day he'll become a god and how humans are petty.

 

[perfectslumbers]

i find it amusing that the Elder scrolls is literally just a bunch of conflicting nonsense written by authors with biases on purpose and everyone goes "yay! deep lore!" and Dragon age does the exact same thing and people scream that the lore is being "raped" or whatever. ya'll dont know what you want

Nonsense? Read the Bhagavad Gita loser.

 

[Sykar]

The Kamasutra is more fun!

 

[Gradenmayer]

i find it amusing that the Elder scrolls is literally just a bunch of conflicting nonsense written by authors with biases on purpose and everyone goes "yay! deep lore!" and Dragon age does the exact same thing and people scream that the lore is being "raped" or whatever. ya'll dont know what you want

Elder Scrolls has consistency in it's tone and atmosphere. Inconsistency in lore is excused by making sources of information within the game unreliable or biased.

Dragon Age went from 'serious dark fantasy' to 'wacky adventures of castle "queer".
Lore in DA is usually given by some old cunts who were there when the events have happened or some nerds with reliable proofs. The excuse of unreliable source does not work here.

 

[Falksi]

Dragon Age went from 'serious dark fantasy' to 'wacky adventures of castle "queer".

 

[Vanitas_]

I find it to be quite sad how the series has fallen. I remember picking up DA:O and having a blast with it, back when I was stuck on consoles. The world was amazing to me, and there was always small little changes each playthrough.
Inquisition on the other hand... It's one of those games I love to hate. I'm not looking forward to the next in the series: based on the current track record, it's set to be worse than DA:I and that's simply unfathomable.

 

[perfectslumbers]

i find it amusing that the Elder scrolls is literally just a bunch of conflicting nonsense written by authors with biases on purpose and everyone goes "yay! deep lore!" and Dragon age does the exact same thing and people scream that the lore is being "raped" or whatever. ya'll dont know what you want

Elder Scrolls lore is also, frankly, just much more original and idiosyncratic. Most fantasy worlds pull from a pretty narrow set of influences, and tend to have races act as stand ins for real life cultures. Or just be a generic synthesis of many similar cultures. I'm sure there are similarities between the Dunmer culture and irl ones but at no point in Morrowind did I feel like I was experiencing a reskin of something from real life. Whereas in Dragon Age we have shit like humans oppressing elves as a metaphor for racism, and elves as a representative of native Americans, and magic lobotomies for dangerous mages, and magical conversion therapy, and what is basically the Catholic church. Elder Scrolls is pretty much always a believable world, because it isn't some sort of allegory for real life, and it's referential aspects are referential towards much more obscure material or itself.