Dragon Age Dragon Age: The Veilguard Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[rusty_shackleford]

The best way I can explain is through a direct comparison F:NV is not well written because it lets you join the (fascist) Legion or (neo-capitalist) House but because it puts reasonable explanations why someone would want to join either. Its not just a bunch "mu-ha-ha" villains that just bribe you with a slightly better quest reward but complete and valid perspectives on the world and its problems.

Soyer purposely limited both and was upset that people still chose Caesar.
House had the requirement of purging BoS added because too many people were siding with him.

 

[Tyranicon]

The best way I can explain is through a direct comparison F:NV is not well written because it lets you join the (fascist) Legion or (neo-capitalist) House but because it puts reasonable explanations why someone would want to join either. Its not just a bunch "mu-ha-ha" villains that just bribe you with a slightly better quest reward but complete and valid perspectives on the world and its problems.

Soyer purposely limited both and was upset that people still chose Caesar.
House had the requirement of purging BoS added because too many people were siding with him.

Really? Trying to funnel players into siding with a faction that devs sympathize with is very lame, tbh.

Would like source if anybody has one.

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

you're an even bigger hipster than the average codex hipster, impressive

Bro I have 600 hours in morrowind most of which was from last year, I don't hold toys(video games) to any special reverence. Read your bible and pray to god

 

[rusty_shackleford]

you're an even bigger hipster than the average codex hipster, impressive

Bro I have 600 hours in morrowind most of which was from last year, I don't hold toys(video games) to any special reverence. Read your bible and pray to god

I'm letting you know ahead of time that you're currently the favorite for codex hipster of the year award.

 

[Ravielsk]

The best way I can explain is through a direct comparison F:NV is not well written because it lets you join the (fascist) Legion or (neo-capitalist) House but because it puts reasonable explanations why someone would want to join either. Its not just a bunch "mu-ha-ha" villains that just bribe you with a slightly better quest reward but complete and valid perspectives on the world and its problems.

Soyer purposely limited both and was upset that people still chose Caesar.
House had the requirement of purging BoS added because too many people were siding with him.

Well, I never said it was ideal just that its actually competently written compared to Biowares "muh oppression" bullshit.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Codex hipsters seething that people like "generic fantasy" rather than pwgras and fampyrs

Spoiler

God, I wish Morrowind were as good as its concept arts.

Morrowind concept art looks like they should've make a cel shaded Elder Scrolls. Looks like concept art for a game that was meant to look more like Ōkami then anything Bethesda has made. Their games do have some surprisingly good looking concept art given how bland the games themselves have all looked the last 15 years.

 

[ㅤㅤㅤ]

ralph macquarrie art

I don't see it. With art it is usually very easy to show similarities, you just post the image of what is being cribbed and then the derivative work featuring it. So go ahead with that. Also, Jim Froud? What have you been smoking?

You also mention RuneQuest a lot but you don't post what part of that material is being used. I'm not familiar with it and it just looks like an RPG setting with some historical parts being used along with some of your standard mythical stories? What makes you say it was RuneQuest in particular and not just history being used? I'm not going to pretend Morrowind is some pinnacle of originality but you seem to have very specific beefs and ideas of where the ideas came from.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Codex hipsters seething that people like "generic fantasy" rather than pwgras and fampyrs

Spoiler

God, I wish Morrowind were as good as its concept arts.

Morrowind concept art looks like they should've make a cel shaded Elder Scrolls. Looks like concept art for a game that was meant to look more like Ōkami then anything Bethesda has made. Their games do have some surprisingly good looking concept art given how bland the games themselves have all looked the last 15 years.

Those images were all Morrowind fan-art, not concept art, which looks as follows:

 

[RIT_SKUA]

Soyer purposely limited both and was upset that people still chose Caesar.

That's not true. He didn't "purposefully limit both" and he wasn't "upset" that Caesar was joinable. In fact, he wanted Caesar to come across as less obviously misogynistic so that people wouldn't be as weirded out about siding with him. See: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Caesar's_Legion?so=search#References

House had the requirement of purging BoS added because too many people were siding with him.

That's wrong too. Sawyer removed the non-lethal option because "it would be in-character for Mr. House to not tolerate the Brotherhood. Additionally, it would be a more difficult and compelling choice for the player to make." See: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_House_Always_Wins_V#Notes

 

[rusty_shackleford]

That's not true. He didn't "purposefully limit both" and he wasn't "upset" that Caesar was joinable. In fact, he wanted Caesar to come across as less obviously misogynistic so that people wouldn't be as weirded out about siding with him. See: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Caesar's_Legion?so=search#References

when i think about things like new vegas or dead fire which i think are
probably the two most politically or socially conscious of the games that i've made in
terms of really trying to engage the players thoughts about politics we we still see
people i i think there's value in this in in the capital d discourse i guess so for
example there are people who will play fallout new vegas and they're like caesar's
legion great it's like okay now hearing them sort of uh illuminate the reasons for
that or sometimes horrifying but it is also illuminating for the people seeing that
because they're seeing someone justify a lot of fascist like you know super duper
fascist tendencies in real time you're like okay i can see the gears in a person's
head working outside of the context of the real world in this fantasy world really
although it's very close parallel to our real world they're doing that in dead fire one
of the things that i thought was really wild and i still think is really wild is
um it's a it's about colonialism at its heart there's a native culture there are
two colonial cultures um which by the way was maybe a mistake on my part for
logistics like actually planning it but i thought it was a there are so many cases
historically where you have two competing colonial powers that are trying to like play the
native cultures off of each other and all that stuff and one of the colonial cultures
is um they're like well we don't want to strip the resources from these people
but we want to essentially civilize them and the native culture is definitely the
native culture and it have but it has a caste system and the caste system is uh
dysfunctional especially in the modern world with these um with these colonial powers
messing with them it's it's making their cast system even more dysfunctional and the
number of players that have basically given the same justification you would see of
like raj india or like belgian congo apologia like all this and they're just like
yeah like they're screwed up and so it makes sense that this this colonial culture
should dominate them and i'm like holy like that's crazy um like from my perspective
that's nuts um so that's kind of depressing but it's also i like seeing people having
these conversations because it does mean that they're engaging with this stuff um i
think it's up that that's the conclusion that they reach because i'm like this is
the same justification that people used 100 years ago 150 years ago 200 years ago
to do really terrible things

uhh excuse me, you did a big ol' fascism and a colonialism and a racism

That's wrong too. Sawyer removed the non-lethal option because "it would be in-character for Mr. House to not tolerate the Brotherhood. Additionally, it would be a more difficult and compelling choice for the player to make." See: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_House_Always_Wins_V#Notes

And exactly what "difficult and compelling choice" did he put on siding with the NCR?

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

message me for a list of non-shit, non-generic fantasy works.

Don't be shy now, post it here.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Don't be shy now, post it here.

Deleted his account so he wouldn't have to live up to his promise

 

[Atlantico]

And exactly what "difficult and compelling choice" did he put on siding with the NCR?

They were corrupt and degenerate, bringing the inevitable decline to the Mojave?

Sure it was the familiar kind of corruption and degeneracy, but disgusting nontheless.

Don't be shy now, post it here.

 

[RIT_SKUA]

I don't see what about that video is meant to contradict my point. He even states, as you quote him below, "... I like seeing people having these conversations because it does mean that they're engaging with this stuff..." He does genuinely seem to want players to side with the different ideologies and participate in theoretical comparisons of their relative superiorities, and pointing out that sometimes people justify Caesar's Legion, a fascist organization, using their own neo-fascist logic/rhetoric (so not at all far-fetched) isn't a point against him.

And exactly what "difficult and compelling choice" did he put on siding with the NCR?

Moving the goalpost. I was specifically stating his stated reasons for making the player unable to peacefully reconcile the House-BOS conflict, not discussing whether or not he properly supported that logic with dealing other factions. I will say that he could indeed have handled the NCR better, but in truth he could have handled all factions better - such is the nature of art, there's pretty much always something that can be improved upon. I think he did a good job at tying the NCR's failures to the rot that plagues modern-day nation-states, though, again, I agree he could have followed through a bit better.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

I... actually thought the avatar was part of the image he was projecting.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Codex hipsters seething that people like "generic fantasy" rather than pwgras and fampyrs

Spoiler

God, I wish Morrowind were as good as its concept arts.

Morrowind concept art looks like they should've make a cel shaded Elder Scrolls. Looks like concept art for a game that was meant to look more like Ōkami then anything Bethesda has made. Their games do have some surprisingly good looking concept art given how bland the games themselves have all looked the last 15 years.

Those images were all Morrowind fan-art, not concept art, which looks as follows:

Yeah, I was talking about those images you posted.

The line on those drawings in the concept art, the way they're colored, it just would've been cool to see those drawing brought to life like this:

Fallout 3 has some nice concept art too that I hadn't looked at before.

Like, the game still would've been shit, but visually I would've been more into a Fallout 3 that looked like those drawings and had its own striking stylized visual identity than the shit they actually went with. It almost seems weird they never tried something less realistic, stylized, and simple looking given how shit their kind of realistic looking in-game style looks, and that it might be less taxing for the big open world games they make.

 

[SlightlyRadioactive]

Codex hipsters seething that people like "generic fantasy" rather than pwgras and fampyrs

Spoiler

God, I wish Morrowind were as good as its concept arts.

Morrowind concept art looks like they should've make a cel shaded Elder Scrolls. Looks like concept art for a game that was meant to look more like Ōkami then anything Bethesda has made. Their games do have some surprisingly good looking concept art given how bland the games themselves have all looked the last 15 years.

Those images were all Morrowind fan-art, not concept art, which looks as follows:

Yeah, I know! Still, the art is too good for the game we've got.

 

[Ravielsk]

And exactly what "difficult and compelling choice" did he put on siding with the NCR?

There does not need to be a "difficult and compelling choice" to every faction. Some can and should be fairly straightforward otherwise you end up with this modern neurotic style of writing where people and groups written in one way suddenly flip on one particular issue to give them some false sense of "depth". In DA:O this would be Logan betraying his king, trying to usurp the throne, basically letting the darkspawn in and generally being a scumbag but then you are supposed to sympathize with him because... well because he was scared and stuff. Same with the templars who quite literary treat mages like deranged lepers (despite the fact that without them they have literary no means of defense against demons and other mages) just waiting to snap but then you are supposed to consider their side of things because the one guy they pushed into a corner snapped. Or in Mass Effect where you spend an entire chapter slaughtering rachnids and being told how last time Krogans needed to play exterminator to deal with them but then you are supposed to consider the "morality" of erasing an entire species cus the Reapers made them do it(which of course is not a red flag at all and you best just ignore it for good boi points).

There is a place and time for everything in writing and yes that includes shallow and basic groups and choices. That being said the main problem with NCR is not the lack difficult choices but the absence of Ceaser controlled land. You see plenty of how the NCR runs things but you see very little of the legion territory and how it compares to NCR. Its easy to take the side of guys who are mostly found on farms and casinos over the guy who is literary represented only in one temporary war camp. Displaying a chunk of legion territory to demonstrate the contrast would go a long way to balance it with the NCR and it was planned but there just was not enough time to do it.

 

[Skinwalker]

Oh, they're explaining everything? Okay, what are the Darkspawn? Where did they come from?

Mutated creatures created from the taint that the Tevinter magisters were infected with when they entered the Dark City. The taint originated from some of the elven gods (Evanuris and/or the Forgotten Ones) visiting other dimensions (the abyss/the void) and getting progressively more monstrous in the process, eventually ending with them being imprisoned in the Dark City in the Fade, until the magisters entered it.

The darkspawn life-cycle involves kidnapping a female human/dwarf/elf/qunari, spitting/pissing/shitting/vomiting into her mouth until she mutates into a broodmother, and starts giving birth to genlocks/hurlocks/stalkers/ogres. Presumably, some of the tainted magisters created the first broodmothers, and the darkspawn spread from there.

How much of this will be retconned if DA4 ever comes out, I can't tell you, and neither can Bioware or EA.

 

[Cael]

In other words, the bloody elves fucked up the world. As usual.

 

[Infinitron]

https://venturebeat.com/2022/01/20/dragon-age-4-is-still-more-than-a-year-away/

Dragon Age 4 is still more than a year away

BioWare’s fantasy role-playing franchise is still a long way from its return. Dragon Age 4 is still in the works, but don’t expect to see it for at least a full year from now at the earliest. This is still in line with what I wrote in July about the game launching in 2023. But don’t take that to mean early 2023. A summer release is the earliest possible timeframe for the launch of Dragon Age 4, and even that is a vague hope more than a real target.

Freelancer Tom Henderson reiterated this timeline in a tweet today. According to his source, the game has no chance of launching this year. But this isn’t the result of some internal delay or anything — EA has long known that BioWare wasn’t getting it ready for 2022.

As a reminder, Dragon Age 4 is a single-player, narrative-driven role-playing adventure. That might seem obvious, but EA was definitely once considering an online, connected live-service model for this sequel. It abandoned that concept early on, however, and the team has worked for more than a year to design a faithful followup to the previous Dragon Age games.

But even if the game isn’t launching this year, we may still end up seeing it. EA hasn’t decided on when to begin marketing the project, but the Summer Game Mess (E3) season or The Game Awards are still on the table.

 

[perfectslumbers]

I hope they're using all this time to make a working pc control scheme and not a giant open world filled with mmo quests

 

[Wunderbar]

they are probably trying to come up with a way to implement NFTs.

 

[Lhynn]

Yes DA2 had some clear design shortcuts but you prepare yourself for this and it has real gaming entertainment.

I dont even know who you are and i can already place you among the worst shit tasters in this forum.

 

[Wunderbar]

Mark Darrah is butthurt