Dragon's Dogma II - "They’re masterworks, all – you can’t go wrong"

[Dyet]

DD1, DD:DA and DD2 Spoilers

In DD:DA, if you beat BBI for a second time, you will come to face what is known as the True Daimon, a being using the demonic body of Daimon, but with a dragon's face on its chest and a completely different and ominous personality. Once you kill it, a human figure will appear before disappearing through the Rift, which implies that, whatever the True Daimon was, is alive and has power over the Rift, which means it is incredibly powerful.

This misterious figure is the main antagonist of DD2, the master of the cycle and the closest to a god the setting has: the Pathfinder.

After doing so, the Pathfinder is going to destroy the world and start the cycle anew. If we die and fail, he would punish us by trapping us in the next cycle in the place of the old man, unable to do anything but watch as the cycle continue. We suceed in stopping the end of the world, which forces the Pathfinder to take matters into hands and shows his true form: that of the real Dragon (which has the same face as that of the True Daimon back in DD:DA).

Spoiler

I think your summary is good, but there's something I'm not sure about this part about how DD2 ties into BBI. I haven't played DDDA in a while, but wasn't Daimon trying to undermine the cycle by trapping/killing Arisen who come to BBI? If awakened Daimon was the Pathfinder puppeteering Daimon/using him as a vessel, why would he even fight the DDDA Arisen? If anything, Daimon's death would be something that serves his interests, no?

 

[Anonona]

Crayll

Pretty much agree with all this, but how do you feel about the ending of DD2 being a return to the cycles established in DD1 instead of breaking them entirely? It seems like you're in a degraded cycle due to Rothais in DD2, and while the Pathfinder has tried to kill him in the past, if you get the Sovran ending it doesn't look like the Pathfinder has much interest in correcting the cycle anymore since you just sit on the throne and don't end up becoming a new Seneschal.

Shit, I didn't think about it being a false cycle, I assumed it was just "THE" cycle, so I though we had finally break it. I like the idea of breaking a false cycle less than breaking the real one, but it may be what they were going from, as the old man does say we live in a false world. I just thought that the cycle itself is what he was refering to, not a fake cycle. I guess that either someone smarter than me or the devs may be able to confirm it. Also I didn't see the "bad ending", I assumed that either you eventually go after the Seneschal, as if you talk with the Pathfinder he ask if you are persuing him to obtain more power and rule over the world, and says that you will have to figure out that path by yourself, which seems to be referring to killing the Seneschal and taking the role. Or he just waits until you die of old age, after all you have your hearth and therefore are mortal again, before restarting the cycle from scratch.

Dyet

I think your summary is good, but there's something I'm not sure about this part about how DD2 ties into BBI. I haven't played DDDA in a while, but wasn't Daimon trying to undermine the cycle by trapping/killing Arisen who come to BBI? If awakened Daimon was the Pathfinder puppeteering Daimon/using him as a vessel, why would he even fight the DDDA Arisen? If anything, Daimon's death would be something that suits him, no?

That is a good question. If he is really the Pathfinder, I think the reason he is there is pretty much the same as Xemnas in KH1: is just teasing from the developers for the next game. Now, plotwise, I'm not quite sure, and is the one thing that doesn't quite fit. Specially because he says things like "Dare you look into the truth?", which feels like the opposite of what Pathfinder would do. I would havet to look deeper into it.

Other possibilty is that it is not the Pathfinder. In that case, then it may be the rebellious Dragon from DD2, which would kind of fit, but I don't think the Dragon should be able to do that, or another entity enterely that we don't know about, perhaps a new character for the possible DD2's expansion.

 

[Oracscube]

Minor spoiler alert if you haven't met and done Alberts (the twat in the town square telling tales) questline

 

[SmilingGorion]

Ouch, SmilingGorion just got fuckin pwned. Now piss off loser. Looking at your posting history, seems you only exist to shit on jrpgs.

You're like a fat autistic kid cheering because he's allowed to eat cake today, only for me to show up and piss on it.

 

[SmilingGorion]

Compare Black Desert and FFXIV, two games released at the same time to the same genre and market

I think that examples actually proves his point. FF XIV, the original release, was in 2010, but it began development in 2005. The game was famed also by its difficult development and being released too soon in an unfinished state. Black Desert was released in 2014, and it started development in 2010. So there is a 5 years gap of difference, which actually supports Lovecraft's cat's point about time being a big factor in how technically impressive a game is. Also you missed the context that, once FF XIV was transformed into ARR, it suffered graphical downgrades and was released on consoles, including PS3, while Black Desert wouldn't receive console ports until 2017, and it was on PS4 and XBOX one. I think it is not a very good example, and it may be better to look for Korean MMO's release on 2010 and then compare. Maybe Vindictus would be the closer example, but still not realy that differently from a technical standpoint, and not that good of comparison as Vindictus is closer to MH in structure, with small hubs where you meet other players, form a party and go to levels, instead of being open world with numerous player playing on the same map at the same time. If I find a better example I'll post it.

Japs are at least a decade behind the rest of the developed world. Maybe you'd know this if you actually played games.

I don't know, I find that it isn't about being japanese or western and more about specific companies. Companies like SQ has some of the best particles effects on the market. The Yakuza series was doing realistic faces for quite a long time. Even in older generations you had shit like Silent Hill 3 and 4 that looked almost like early PS3 games. In Western companies you also have examples of gorgerous looking games like Ghost of Tsuhima and not so good looking AAA games. In Capcom's case, the REngine offer incredible photorealistic graphics, is highly modeable and flexible, being created for slow horror games and ended up being used for hack'n Slash (DMC 5), ARPG like MH and now Open World DD2.

In the topic of DD2, technically speaking is an AAA game made by 1/4** of many other AAA games, and still delivers incredible quality and technology, specially on the physics based combat, all while being a multiplatform release. If that is not a showing of technological ingenuity, then I don't know what is (for modern game development at least)*.



Edit*: added final parenthesis for clarification.

Edit 2**: There is talk that those credits may be incomplete, still not confirmed. If that turns out to be the case, I'll edit and change the post to avoid misinformation.

While that may not be the best example given the circumstances under which FFXIV was released, you could also compare to a game like Aion without FFXIV coming out looking any better. If time is the decisive factor, then why doesn't the 10 years between W3 and DD2 account for visuals that blow W3 out of the water? I maintain that Lovecraft's Cat has some form of visual (in addition to cognitive) impairment.

I don't know how much stock I would put in the technical ingenuity of a game that runs as poorly as DD2. How about Witcher 3 running on the Switch? But that is not to say that everything about the creation of the game is dogshit. Just a bit more nuanced than what a slack-jawed sissy like Lovecraft would assert. Also, this is an interesting point made on that Tweet about the actual scope of people involved in the making of the game. Also bear in mind how many re-used assets they have from DD1, whereas W3 is visually non-recognizable from W2.

 

[Anonona]

While that may not be the best example given the circumstances under which FFXIV was released, you could also compare to a game like Aion without FFXIV coming out looking any better.

I think it is a good comparison. I haven't played Aion, so I may be unable to do a good comparison. At first glance I find that FF XIV does looks better than Aion, particularly on the details of the environment, lightning and the character models, which are more expressive (although, to be fair in this regard, Aion character customization is much better than FF XIV, so this may be in part the reason for Aion character being less expresive). But take this with a grain of salt, I have very little experience with Aion.

If time is the decisive factor, then why doesn't the 10 years between W3 and DD2 account for visuals that blow W3 out of the water?

I agree that time isn't the sole factor, not even the most important for a game to have good visuals. Now, after watching the video, I would say, to my untrained eye, that DD2 is still more impressive than Witcher 3 in a technical level. In particular I find the lightning looks better, the models are more realistic and detailed, the physics are better (which extends at details like the grass moving when there is a big impact like when a cyclops attack) and the animations are just immensely better. Now, that doesn't mean that Witcher 3 looks worse necessarily, and this is both due to Witcher 3 having very strong art direction and very impressive technical work behind it. They went for a more colorful and vibrant pallet for the world and it does pay off, making it look like a painting in movement and looking better than more modern games because of it. DD2 is not slouch either, and specifically the animations and the physics of the game work incredibly well thanks in no small part to Itsuno's team's experience with action games, specifically DMC5. But is true that the more subdue and grounded art syle of DD2 doesn't pop up as much as the Witcher 3.

But this is just how I see it, I'm not the best when it comes to graphics discussions, in fact I'm quite bad at it. Like putting pearls before swines if you get me. Others may give you a more precise evaluation.

Another factor that may answer the question is is that graphical advancements in graphic has been slowing down for a while. So before a few years was enough to get a big graphical jump, you just need to look at the graphic improvements from PS1 -> PS2 -> PS3 -> PS4 which really felt like different generations, and since PS4 onward, while we had improvements, it hasn't really be as dramatic

Finally it seems that video is comparing Dragon's Dogma 2 to the Witcher 3 Next gen version, which seems to be an updated version of the game done in 2022.



I'll still agree that the original Witcher 3 looks incredibly good and is clear the technical work behind it is fantastic. So I could feasibly see it actually being better than DD2, even if I'm not of the same opinion or unable to appreciate it.

So I agree that the topic is more nuanced than just "new looks better", but I disagree that japanese games in general look worse due to technical advancements. In this case is more of different visions for each game and artistic choices behind them than make then look so different. Though you may be right, I'm quite ignorant about this stuff, so in this regard what I present is little more than my opinion.

 

[Echo Mirage]

Is there any pawn inclinations or pawns in general that can help during with the Sphinx riddle to find out where my first token pick up was? While I think my first one was in Vernworth I can't say I'm relishing the idea of checking every road and cave along the entire north road to find out.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Hate to be that guy but I feel like the original played better.

Things I like:
-Bigger world, more biomes
-Old school traveling, saving, camping
-Dark nights and caves
-Pawn system upgrades
-Class skills and augments are fun

Things that are meh:
-The split of thief/archer adds nothing and takes away my favorite playstyle from the original. I haven't unlocked Warfarer yet though so maybe it makes up for it?
-None of the other hybrid classes look interesting at all

Things that aren't good:
-The Combat. How did they mess this up? Feels so mushy and imprecise. The original played like DMC + Monster hunter and it was awesome. Here it feels like my hits have no weight and I'm just vaguely flailing in the direction of the monsters. Battles turn into a spam of particle effects while the camera gets lodged up a lizardman's ass. Enemies don't have good "flow", they either gang up and stun lock you instantly or pathetically miss with super-slow telegraphed moves while you kill them with zero effort.

Possible I'm misremembering since it has been awhile since I played DD1, but so far I am unimpressed.

Lastly, do your stats change based on vocation or are you screwed out of ever being a decent mage if you started as fighter, for instance? I know in the original you had to specialize to some degree.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Lastly, do your stats change based on vocation or are you screwed out of ever being a decent mage if you started as fighter, for instance? I know in the original you had to specialize to some degree.

I don't think it matters. Stats are based on gear. You're actually nerfing yourself by only sticking to one vocation because you're missing out on other augments and wasting two slots.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Stats are based on gear.

You have base stats from class in addition to gear. Pay attention when you level up.

*edit* https://dragonsdogma2.wiki.fextralife.com/Stats

Apparently it's more like FF5, your base stats are modified by the class, so you can't screw yourself out of a certain build (but also can't min/max either). Though there is still some debate if base stats grow faster depending on class. Overall it appears to be less of an issue, so freely switching classes is okay.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Okay maybe I'm partially wrong. I know for a fact it's better to upgrade multiple vocations for the augments. A single maxed vocation does not fill all of your augment slots. Also the game becomes so piss easy after a certain point it doesn't matter wtf you do. Min-maxing is pointless at this current stage of the game's life.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

My pawn is starting to become a smartass when I give her orders. Is it time to make her fish food?

Edit

I'm gonna try to finish my journey first. I've gone too far. Also ever since I changed from archer to thief harpies have just been wrecking my shit. I got the thief's long range grapple thing but it doesn't yank them out of the sky. Oh lawd.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I haven't had any dragonblight impacts yet...

... but I pay attention to how the pawns are behaving and talking. If they start backtalking more, not really listening to orders, etc. I fire them into the great beyond.

One time I actually had some other pawns say things like, "Are you seriously going to ignore the Arisen?"

Seems so far to be a mechanic that's sort of a MotB level IQ test tbh.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I haven't had any dragonblight impacts yet...

... but I pay attention to how the pawns are behaving and talking. If they start backtalking more, not really listening to orders, etc. I fire them into the great beyond.

One time I actually had some other pawns say things like, "Are you seriously going to ignore the Arisen?"

Seems so far to be a mechanic that's sort of a MotB level IQ test tbh.

She's not doing anything egregious. She's just acting like an angsty teenager. She still does everything I tell her to do and I'm not seeing the

Spoiler

dreaded glowing eyes.

Still, I'll kill my whole party once I get this Medusa I'm hunting.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I killed Medusa! That fight was fucking great. Second only to that juiced up Chimera I fought near a cave entrance.

Edit

Oh yeah my bitch is turning evil. Need to find a river ASAP!

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Wtf she

Spoiler

infected the Spearhand maister guy. I thought he was a regular NPC. Do I kill him too? He came along because he wanted to help kill the tumor drake

 

[mediocrepoet]

Spoiler

Turns out STIs are contagious.

PURGE THE UNCLEAN!

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I think we were all just poisoned from the Medusa fight. I mistook the effect for everybody turning evil. The screen kept flashing red and somebody kept spamming heal, scared the shit out of me. I killed everyone and then died from poison. Luckily autosave set me back. I had to kill the Medusa again but everything seems well. This game makes me paranoid.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I think we were all just poisoned from the Medusa fight. I mistook the effect for everybody turning evil. The screen kept flashing red and somebody kept spamming heal, scared the shit out of me. I killed everyone and then died from poison. Luckily autosave set me back. I had to kill the Medusa again but everything seems well. This game makes me paranoid.

Inb4 you go to an inn and kill an entire city.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

DD2 has suddenly turned into John Carpenter's The Thing.

 

[Zariusz]

I accidentally stumbled upon that sculptor guy from the griffin statue quest waiting for me in the wild, i didnt have medusa's head yet and my autosave got overwritten (and inn save was long ago) so i had to continue the quest. I get that since griffin fucked off at some point during the fight he had to "fill the details with imagination"... but how the fuck you can turn griffin into a fucking goat?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

One of the pawns I hired suddenly started attacking wildlife and another random wandering pawn. Promptly fed the river.

 

[Utgard-Loki]

making the main story line even less coherent than the one in dd1 vanilla is quite the achievement.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

So as far as Medusa drops go

Spoiler

she gave me the most frabjous bow on my 2nd kill. Only problem is it weighs a ton and destroys your stamina, rendering it useless. There is supposedly a way to cut it's weight in half which I'm currently trying to figure out. I'm wasting ferrystones trying to find out which place reduces the most weight. Even at 8 kg it's gonna weigh me down alot, but the tradeoff seems more than worth it.

Yes I switched back to archer. It felt sort of miserable playing as a melee class. I think I just conditioned myself for long range.

 

[mediocrepoet]

So as far as Medusa drops go

Spoiler

she gave me the most frabjous bow on my 2nd kill. Only problem is it weighs a ton and destroys your stamina, rendering it useless. There is supposedly a way to cut it's weight in half which I'm currently trying to figure out. I'm wasting ferrystones trying to find out which place reduces the most weight. Even at 8 kg it's gonna weigh me down alot, but the tradeoff seems more than worth it.

Yes I switched back to archer. It felt sort of miserable playing as a melee class. I think I just conditioned myself for long range.

Spoiler

Dragonforging cuts weight in half. Also upgrading along either the elven or human smithing paths drops weight a bit with each step whereas the dwarven smithing increases weight. Dragonforging takes whatever the residual is and halves it.