Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup questions/thread

[Zomg]

I aint gon say learn by dying isn't degenerate

but you probably don't like roguelikes if you don't like it

 

[ArcturusXIV]

I don't *hate* it. I'm just surprised.

I knew games existed like this. Just not my generation... Well, now they are. Like I said, addiction factor is HIGH. Need to beat this game NOW!!!

 

[Machocruz]

I'm not going to start a new thread for this. How do I avoid permadeath in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup? I am new to this. Roguelikes.

http://techlorebyigor.blogspot.com/2009 ... crawl.html

 

[7hm]

I don't *hate* it. I'm just surprised.

I knew games existed like this. Just not my generation... Well, now they are. Like I said, addiction factor is HIGH. Need to beat this game NOW!!!

If you need to beat the game, you're going to have to get used to permadeath.

It's designed around the concept of permadeath and the gameplay is balanced towards it.

There's lot of advice in my DCSS LP (linked below) and you can also read tons of good advice in Yeesh's LP here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=56463

Are you playing offline tiles? Online tiles? Online console?

...

If you really don't want to deal with permadeath ( ) then you can turn wizmode on when you start. If you die you'll have the option of returning to life.

 

[sirfink]

What are the best classes for Vampire? I mean, between Necroweenie, Asscappin', and Bunk (Necromancer, assassin, monk.)

Just askin'...

So...Waffles...?

Vampires make good sneaky characters, whether you cast spells or not. Don't put too much into the classes (actually called "backgrounds") as they are just a starting point. Any character can learn any skill, cast any spell and worship any god. The background you choose is just a headstart on some skills.

Vampires aren't bad for a beginner. Try Enchanter, Stalker or Assassin. Sneak around and backstab stuff. Let yourself get thirsty or very thirsty as this boosts your stealth and gives you poison resist. Drink blood now and then to avoid becoming bloodless, as this means you can't naturally regenerate health at all. Can be good in the late game but difficult early on.

Chaos Knights are a sick joke and should be played by masochists only.

The classic beginner combo is Kobold Berserker. Very easy really and a good way to learn the game. Kobolds can eat nearly everything they kill so hunger isn't an issue. Any difficult enemies (like the uniques, ogres or bunches of orc priests and mages) can be handled by going berserk. Pretty much any difficult situation can be handled by simply going berserk and just clearing the room of enemies. Pump up DEX (not STR), drop the mace you start with and replace it with a shortblade ASAP, wear the best robe you can find, turn off your armor and maces skills, and be a sneaky backstabber.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

I am so far enjoying Vampire Assassins, Kenku Monks, and Troll Berserkers the most. I die by about level 4 of the first dungeon. Every time. Trying to master this before I cheat...

Yes, I probably will eventually. Just to beat the game once I get bored of variations. However, perfecting a game requires discipline, and I am not someone to enable a console just to give myself infinite saves. I was more suggesting tips to avoid dying... In-game, not via external programs. :S

I am still dwarfed by magic/abilities, since the interface takes getting used to. Any way to hotkey spells?

 

[Damned Registrations]

I believe it's the '=' key, though it's been a while. '?' should lead you to a list of keybindings, which should list it in there somewhere, among other useful things.

As far as tips for not dying:
1: Do not flee into unexplored areas. If you must flee, flee back up the stairs and rest there, and possibly re-enter the level through a different staircase.

2: If you're impatient like me, autoexplore will probably save your hide, because no matter how much you lean on it, it won't make you skip 10 turns while a sorceror turns you into a pile of ashes. Technically manually edging around things carefully one tile at a time is safest, but I'd never manage that for more than half an hour before getting fed up and running everywhere.

3: Eat any corpse you can whenever you can. If you're hungry enough to eat raw meat, it's worth the risk of sickness. Obviously don't eat poisonous or corrupting things, they're colour coded for your convenience.

4: Use your useful consumables (wands, potions, scrolls you've identified somewhere safe) for fighting enemies that are faster than you and potentially dangerous (Generally uniques or magic users), BEFORE you're one hit away from dying. It's pointless to waste them on things you can just walk away from safely, but it's even more pointless to die with a wand of fire in your inventory.

 

[desocupado]

I am so far enjoying Vampire Assassins, Kenku Monks, and Troll Berserkers the most. I die by about level 4 of the first dungeon. Every time. Trying to master this before I cheat...

Yes, I probably will eventually. Just to beat the game once I get bored of variations. However, perfecting a game requires discipline, and I am not someone to enable a console just to give myself infinite saves. I was more suggesting tips to avoid dying... In-game, not via external programs. :S

I am still dwarfed by magic/abilities, since the interface takes getting used to. Any way to hotkey spells?

You can create a macro, by pressing ^ on the keyboard, picking macro, and following the instructions.

"za."

Makes you use the spell alocated to "a" at the default target. Beware, the default target might not be your prefered one.

As to not die, well, know to measure your mp and hp. Retreat when you realize they won't be enough for you to survive the fight. Orc sorcerers and orc priests are dangerous, specially orc priests. If you see one, try to kill it quickly, if you see more than one, try retreating into a corner and killing one by one, or better yet, FLEE. You can always return later and clear a level.

It's kinda obvious, but you don't have to kill everything. And you can always come back to clear stuff you left alive.

The potions you find the most are USUALLY healing potions. Beware, because if you need healing and you try the stack of potions you have most, it WILL be confusion, mutation, poison, strong poison or paralysis. If you don't need healing, then that stack of four or five potions are probably healing.

Oh, ALWAYS FLEE FROM GRINDER. Some backgrounds might be able to kill him, but better safe than sorry.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Okay, quick update. I'm going to make one character to effectively cheat, so I get in-game mechanics without constant dying, and save the rest to play the game properly, permadeath style. I use the & key to get to the Wiz, then the heal "h" key? Or is their a key to save or revive? Bah.

Anyway, I think I'm going to keep the Kenku Monk. They are BADASS. Glass cannons, but a lot more survivable than you'd think, one of my previous char's ghosts kicked my Troll Berserker's butt when he was level 4!!!

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Oh yeah, and I restarted my Berzerker as a Minotaur. I'm not sure about them vs. trolls, but I am miles more interested in playing minotaurs for roleplaying than trolls, though I'd like a cross-comparison from anyone who's played both?

Also, best hand-to-hand race?

 

[Malakal]

Trolls are the best h2h race since they get an innate +6 bonus to their unarmed damage and also a hidden to hit bonus. Then there are ghouls with +4. That is if you meant unarmed combat. Both those species are hard to win with - ghouls are hard overall and trolls run out of steam midgame and become easy pickings.

Minotaurs are a very solid fighter choice with added bonus of horns. They can also reliably use all weapon types, mellee that is. Good choice for berserkers since they dont get useless INT on level up and can wear armor quite proficiently.

 

[Zomg]

Yah heavy armor is good now

The main difference in playing stuff like Trolls is that for most melee characters you reach a point in midgame where you have really good defense and a big HP pool and you can, aside from a few specific problem enemies, just wade in and fuck shit up, read a telescroll if shit gets dicey and be fine. Trolls are not that way. They play like an early game character until really late - but if you keep your damage output up it just keeps feeling like an effective early game character, not a shitty midgame character, if that makes any sense. I find trolls fun even though they're so simplistic.

 

[Machocruz]

I've used both Troll and Minotaur berserkers multiple times, and the Troll had and easier time starting out, but the Minotaur seems to have more stamina, more effective in the long term.

But I've yet to clear the game, so take it as you will. At dungeon level 18/Vault 2 I"m at my furthest point yet, and my Minserker seems to have hit a wall, where there are threats around every corner, and I've been whittled down to a sliver of health multiple times, whereas nothing has challenged me for the bulk of the previous 17 levels +Lair,Orcs,Swamp,Shoals,Hive.

 

[Zomg]

A perceived wall at that point is probably caused by damage output problems - enemies take a leap in AC and HP in that range I think. What weapon are you using at what skill?

 

[Machocruz]

A perceived wall at that point is probably caused by damage output problems - enemies take a leap in AC and HP in that range I think. What weapon are you using at what skill?

+0,+4 broadaxe of electrocution, and of fire, both god gifts.

17 in Axes, 14 in Fighting

I've had to lean on Brothers in Arms way too much at this point as well.

 

[Zomg]

Ehh I usually consider broad axes to be in the "good enough" melee category, although it's the worst of the good-enoughs (demon/blessed weapons + katanas + two handers). I assume you are using a shield (if not use a battle axe), if it's a large shield you might want to back it down to a normal one, shields give damage, hit and attack speed penalties until you get certain shield skill levels and the large shield penalty is very noticeable. For "normal" sized characters (like a minotaur) it's 5 skill to cancel the penalty for a buckler, 15 for a normal shield, and 25 for a large shield. I usually get some ridiculous +8/+8 weapon from Trog by that point so I guess you have been unlucky

If none of those things is the problem just learn to set up safe berserks more, they don't cost piety and food shouldn't be a big problem at that point.

Also if you are playing an old version like 0.7 berserkers are hard as hell because heavy armor sucked and berserk had a bug that made it 100x less safe

 

[ArcturusXIV]

I need some help. Cannot seem to "fire in direction," despite tutorial.

I have no numpad on my netbook. Maybe they don't register regular number/letter keys + shift, or directional arrows? Could be an interface problem. Unsure...

Secondly, was never able to make it through magic tutorial, for some reason unable to memorize anything from first book of spells, so I am dicey on how this words. Guide? Want to start my Spriggan Venom Mage IMMEDIATELY.

 

[Zomg]

Don't know the spell direction thing. I hardly ever use it anyway though, you can use the "f" key after you cast the spell to select the nearest target which is what you want 99% of the time. The rest of the time you can just manually position it.

The reason you can't memorize anything in the book is that you have to be level 2 to learn a level 2 spell, level 3 for level 3, etc. You also have to have enough available free spell levels, which come from intelligence and the spellcasting stat. You start with the level 1 spell memorized usually

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Don't know the spell direction thing. I hardly ever use it anyway though, you can use the "f" key after you cast the spell to select the nearest target which is what you want 99% of the time. The rest of the time you can just manually position it.

The reason you can't memorize anything in the book is that you have to be level 2 to learn a level 2 spell, level 3 for level 3, etc. You also have to have enough available free spell levels, which come from intelligence and the spellcasting stat. You start with the level 1 spell memorized usually

In that case I just need to know how to target walls with spells. So I destroy them and stuff.

 

[Ashery]

Use Z (Not z) to force cast. Pretty sure that's the bit you're looking for

Anything but generic advice is difficult to give over forums. Best way is to play online and have someone spectating and giving input.

If you want to try a Kenku, go for an Air Elementalist. As has been mentioned prior, the class only determines your starting skill values; any class can get to any rank in any skill and cast any spell. As a KeAE, your melee will start out weak (Use unarmed), but you'll have spells to fall on as backup (I'll be going from several month old memory here, so some bits may be wrong). Shock is an *incredibly* powerful first level spell once you learn how to do some basic multihits. Swiftness will save your ass more times than you'll be able to count as it synergizes amazingly with flight. Along with a bunch of other damn useful air based spells, the highest of which is tornado. Nothing quite as satisfying as watching nearly a dozen elves die instantly, ahh...

Here's the dump from the last time I played'em (To give an idea of how to build): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Ash/Ash.txt

 

[7hm]

Most walls need at least mid-level spells (LRD) to be destroyed. Though you can use fire to destroy honeycomb walls.

Press Z (instead of z) to cast a spell with no monsters in range.

In Wiz-mode when you die it asks you if you want to die or not. If you pick not you just get reborn.

On another note, if anyone is playing trunk, my lua traps are in now. Yay.

 

[Malakal]

A perceived wall at that point is probably caused by damage output problems - enemies take a leap in AC and HP in that range I think. What weapon are you using at what skill?

+0,+4 broadaxe of electrocution, and of fire, both god gifts.

17 in Axes, 14 in Fighting

I've had to lean on Brothers in Arms way too much at this point as well.

Electrocution is a very weak brand on axes and heavy weapons - it shines when you have a quick weapon with low basic damage. Move to the fireaxe as your main weapon.

Other than that wait for Trog to give you a kickass executioner or battleaxe. Possibly clear the Hive, orcish mines if you havent yet for piety and added gifts.

Did you clear the Lair? Perhaps its time for snake pit (as long as you have rP+)

 

[Machocruz]

I did have an Executioner axe of freezing in my stash, which i switched to, which helped me progress in the main dungeon.

I cleared Hive, Orc, Swamp, Lair, last time I played which was a few months ago

This week I Survived getting sent to the Abyss 3 times in Elven 5. Got all the way down to Dungeon 27 last night, but I bought in the last level of Shoals from a barrage of Merfolk spears.

I used regen.bat to reload and experiment for following runs,and this character's low MR and lack of missile defense make the bottom of Shoals and Elves brutal , as where I need to go in those levels are plagued by Merfolk spear chuckers and Elven casters who fuck me up all sorts of ways.

Unlucky with the item selection too. Alot of cold and fire resistances, and one poison , nothing else. I think I made a mistake not progressing in Vaults. The first level alone had some very hairy spots, so I was afraid to dive at that point, and eventually forgot to.

Oh well, pure melee is boring anyway.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

My minotaur's getting lucky so far. No death yet! Still, no really exciting equipment either. I did enable console, since I want one completist character, the others will be a challenge after I get a better grasp on gameplay and mature in understanding the interface slgihtly.

 

[7hm]

My minotaur's getting lucky so far. No death yet! Still, no really exciting equipment either. I did enable console, since I want one completist character, the others will be a challenge after I get a better grasp on gameplay and mature in understanding the interface slgihtly.

It's not completist if you cheat to do it dammit.