Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup questions/thread

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10-a0-1614-gaacbd52 character file.

9751430 Deso the Grand Master (level 27, 201/201 HPs)
Began as an Octopode Transmuter on Oct 31, 2011.
Was the Champion of Makhleb.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 15 runes on Nov 2, 2011!

The game lasted 10:59:36 (174462 turns).

Deso the Grand Master (Octopode Transmuter) Turns: 174462, Time: 10:59:36

HP 201/201 AC 13 Str 14 XL: 27
MP 49/49 EV 31 Int 32 God: Makhleb [******]
Gold 14564 SH 0 Dex 16 Spells: 13 memorised, 7 levels left

Res.Fire : + + + See Invis. : + - Unarmed
Res.Cold : + + + Warding : . . (no shield)
Life Prot.: + + + Conserve : . U - +3 crown of Dyrovepreva {Hunger rElec Int+
Res.Acid. : . . . Res.Corr. : . T - amulet of resist mutation
Res.Poison: + Clarity : . c - ring of Xadghahe {Wiz +Blink MR SInv}
Res.Elec. : + Spirit.Shd : . J - ring of Dishonour {+Rage rElec rC++ rN+ MR
Sust.Abil.: . . Stasis : . r - +4 ring of protection
Res.Mut. : + Ctrl.Telep.: x v - ring "Mivvuihi" {rElec rN+ Dex+3 Acc+6 Dam
Res.Rott. : + Levitation : . n - +5 ring of intelligence
Saprovore : . . . Ctrl.Flight: . M - ring of the Many Lives {+Rage rF++ rN+ Acc
F - ring of regeneration
C - ring of Summer {rF++ rC+ Int-1 Stlth++}

8 rings makes for a seriously OP character though. I still maintain that Felids are the most challenging race to play, with no armor or wands (can only wear 2 rings and an amulet), and incredibly low HPs (I have 50 HPs at level 14) and 3 STR at start. The only thing they have going for them are the extra lives, which frankly, should be removed.

I'd actually like to see them make a race for maximum challenge - no armor, weapons, rings, amulets, no wand, scroll or potion use, slow-moving, god-less, no transmutation, and poor skill modifiers (like -5).

 

[Damned Registrations]

You realize without scroll use it'd be impossible to learn spellcasting right?

And Felids actually have two very good things going for them: Speed and Stealth akin to a spriggan, without the food issues that make for trouble spellcasting. And Evasion, which is actually viable with extra lives, since being killed by a total fluke hit doesn't end your game like it does for a Spriggan. Spriggans aren't really much better off armor/weapon wise honestly. You're never going to get a useful amount of AC or SH on a spriggan, and you're still missing a bunch of auxilliary slots like gloves and boots. Yeah they're still extra slots, but chances are they'll have something not that helpful in them. And you can't even wield most of the decent sized weapons, which screws you out of half the randarts in the game, whether you wanted to bash things with them or just hold them for the intrinsics. Wands are generally fluff for a speedy caster anyways; you don't need them to kill things with elemental damage, because you already do that, and you don't need them to kill shit you can't escape from, because you can escape from anything. Felids aren't quite as fast as Spriggans and have a bit less hp, but they're not that far apart. Lives for wands and a few half-slots of equipment seems like a fair trade to me.

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

You realize without scroll use it'd be impossible to learn spellcasting right?

I've always started with spellcasters, so I've never had to gain it through use. I guess with no spellcasting ability, you won't have any spell slots. Well, if you're a non-spellcaster in that case, you'll stay a non-spellcaster for the entire game, unless they allow you to read scrolls off the ground, like they do with books (which means that you can technically use (read) them, just not in hand).

A sentient insect could work for that role.

 

[7hm]

8 rings makes for a seriously OP character though. I still maintain that Felids are the most challenging race to play, with no armor or wands (can only wear 2 rings and an amulet), and incredibly low HPs (I have 50 HPs at level 14) and 3 STR at start. The only thing they have going for them are the extra lives, which frankly, should be removed.

I'd actually like to see them make a race for maximum challenge - no armor, weapons, rings, amulets, no wand, scroll or potion use, slow-moving, god-less, no transmutation, and poor skill modifiers (like -5).

Felids are ezpz.

They are literally babbys intro to roguelikes.

Particularly zerkers, but most of the other classes are just as bad.

 

[Zomg]

And how the fuck do you manage that when they show up 3 tiles away through a doorway? You had 3 wands of disintegration? Only ever played fast races? Never encountered a kobold room? Your bow never misses or rolls less than 5 damage?

You can't do it every time, but you do end up with a fluctuating list of priorities for gaining, using and expending resources or adapting to the path a particular game takes. I don't get the incredulous tone; people really do streak several games in a row so it is not beyond human capacity to do so. And it's a real skill set that you have to keep sharp too, not just a rote formula - I can barely get to lair now with non- easybutt class/race combos, when I used to feel confident in winning with junk wanderers and random-pick characters, because I got rusty.

 

[desocupado]

Sometimes the game just decides that it wants to piss you off, like not giving teleportation scrolls and then spawning fucking bees on D:7, but mostly, at least for me, my deaths are my own fault.

Stupid shit, like fighting until low hp, or taking too long to drink that potion or engaging every enemy I see.

I think that the only things that can genuinely fuck you before the lair/orc are faster than you monsters, like hounds and bees, orc wizards and priests, and a very early snake, because poison is a bitch this early. Barring uniques, that is.

I really don't think you have to avoid using auto-explore. And I think I never, EVER needed to "save" the rats to not use perma-food. I think I died of starvation remarkably little, like a handful or less times, and mostly with something cursed that did not allow butcher.

I do agree with you in that darts/stones are fucking useless. By the time you manage to hit something, the monster already regenerated all the damage.

As for imps, http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=imp parking.

EDIT: Kobold rooms are fucking nasty, specially when there's one fucker with poisoned needles, or worse, curare.

 

[7hm]

Sometimes the game just decides that it wants to piss you off, like not giving teleportation scrolls and then spawning fucking bees on D:7, but mostly, at least for me, my deaths are my own fault.

Stupid shit, like fighting until low hp, or taking too long to drink that potion or engaging every enemy I see.

I think that the only things that can genuinely fuck you before the lair/orc are faster than you monsters, like hounds and bees, orc wizards and priests, and a very early snake, because poison is a bitch this early. Barring uniques, that is.

I really don't think you have to avoid using auto-explore. And I think I never, EVER needed to "save" the rats to not use perma-food. I think I died of starvation remarkably little, like a handful or less times, and mostly with something cursed that did not allow butcher.

I do agree with you in that darts/stones are fucking useless. By the time you manage to hit something, the monster already regenerated all the damage.

As for imps, http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=imp parking.

EDIT: Kobold rooms are fucking nasty, specially when there's one fucker with poisoned needles, or worse, curare.

I've really only ever died to starvation (excepting early characters when I first was learning) with Spriggan Berserkers. And those are a very particular build.

Orc priests are fucking ASHDFKLAHSDFLKH. So are snakes and so are bees.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Starvation becomes a very serious issue when I'm faced with either A: using stairs to escape a fight and regen all my health/mana at the cost of food or B: Wasting resources aside from food to win a fight (I don't really want to burn my only potion of might or heal wounds to kill, say, Prince Ribbit or Maurice, nor do I want to risk my life in an attempt to park both of them at the same time when they might kill me before letting me go back down, nor do I want to just go down a level and have no safe level to return to. So I eat 3 of my 4 permafoods trying to summon an army of something other than fucking rats and jackals. But hey, apparently I made a tactical error by not finding a wand of fireballs or extra potions or more food to kill them both on a whim. My bad.

Its not as though I'm wasting shit when I don't need it, or dying with useful crap identified in my inventory. It's just a matter of running into one unreasonable threat after another. bees after ogre after priest after wizard after dragon after ghost after unique after kobold room within 3 levels. A wand of frost and 3 useful potions isn't going to get me through all that. Fuck, I could burn the entire wand just on one of those threats if the rolls are shitty.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Aaaaaand dead again. Centaur WARRIOR on D lvl 9. Shows up while I'm at ~40 hp. No potions of heal wounds, blink scrolls, etc. Figured I could outrun him to the stairs maybe since he's at the edge of my vision and I can get cover for about half the trip, and an enemy in between us. NOPE. Apparently centaurs move more quickly while firing arrows than while running away.

And Centaurs are fucking EZ mode early game. Tons of hp, fast movement, insane weapon skill with bow. Guess that's why they felt a need to have another centaur show up on DL 2 I scraped by out of sheer luck.

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.1 character file.

4105 Fuck you crawl the Archer (level 9, -2/70 HPs)
             Began as a Centaur Hunter on Nov 2, 2011.
             Was a Follower of Trog.
             Shot with an arrow by a centaur warrior (16 damage)
             ... on Level 9 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:59:04 (10168 turns).

No seriously wtf the Archer (Centaur Hunter)                                                                              Turns: 10168, Time: 00:59:04

HP  -2/70        AC 11     Str 18      XL: 9   Next: 92%
MP   8/8         EV  7     Int 11      God: Trog [*.....]
Gold 424         SH  0     Dex  7 (9)  Spells:  0 memorised, 10 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .    a - +0 blowgun
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : . .  w - +2 ring mail {rF+}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    V - +0 golden helmet
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : +    e - +2 cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (no barding)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    K - cursed amulet of clarity {unknown}
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    (no ring)
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    R - +2,+6 ring of slaying {unknown}

@: very quick, slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: hooves 3, deformed body 1, speed 2, fast metabolism 2, tough skin 3
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Renounce Religion


You were on level 9 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 10 of its levels.
You visited 1 portal chamber: sewer.

You collected 404 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +0 blowgun (weapon)
 b - the +7,+7 Singing Sword
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
 N - a +0,+0 bow
 U - a +1,+1 orcish flail of protection
Missiles
 r - 18 +0 arrows
 I - 25 poisoned +0 needles (quivered)
Armour
 e - a +2 cloak (worn)
 g - a +1 cap
 w - a +2 ring mail of fire resistance (worn)
 V - a +0 golden helmet (worn)
Magical devices
 h - a wand of flame (14)
 j - a wand of digging (6) {unknown}
 k - a wand of fire (8)
 v - a wand of slowing (14)
 E - a wand of polymorph other (4)
Comestibles
 f - 3 bread rations
 l - 3 meat rations
 q - a chunk of quokka flesh
 G - a beef jerky
Scrolls
 d - a scroll of random uselessness {unknown}
 n - 2 scrolls of recharging
 o - 2 scrolls of fear
 t - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 y - a scroll of curse weapon
 A - a scroll of curse jewellery
 H - a scroll of remove curse {unknown}
 J - 3 scrolls of fog
 O - 2 scrolls of identify
 Q - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 T - a scroll of curse armour {unknown}
 W - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 Z - a scroll of detect curse
Jewellery
 B - an uncursed amulet of faith
 K - a cursed amulet of clarity (around neck) {unknown}
 R - a +2,+6 ring of slaying (left hand) {unknown}
Potions
 c - a potion of speed {unknown}
 i - a potion of berserk rage
 m - a potion of levitation
 p - a potion of agility {unknown}
 u - a potion of invisibility {unknown}
 x - 2 potions of brilliance {unknown}
 z - a potion of restore abilities
 C - a potion of degeneration
 D - a potion of healing
 F - a potion of slowing {unknown}
 L - a potion of poison
 P - a potion of porridge
 S - a potion of resistance {unknown}
Magical staves
 M - a staff of earth {unknown}


   Skills:
 - Level 4 Fighting
 - Level 1 Short Blades
 - Level 4 Long Blades
 - Level 1 Axes
 - Level 2 Maces & Flails
 - Level 12 Bows
 + Level 8 Throwing
 - Level 1 Armour
 - Level 1 Dodging
 - Level 1 Stealth
 - Level 1 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 1 Spellcasting
 + Level 1 Evocations


You had 10 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (9/27)             Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (0/4) D:8
  Lair: D:8-13      

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin

Annotations
D:9 exclusion: silver statue


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have hooves in place of feet.
Armour fits poorly on your unusually shaped body.
You cover ground very quickly.
You have a very fast metabolism.
You have extremely tough skin (AC +3).


Message History

The goliath beetle looks more healthy.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You feel sick. The centaur warrior shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You see here an arrow.
The centaur warrior shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The centaur warrior shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You see here an arrow.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You feel better. The centaur warrior looks more healthy.
The centaur warrior shoots an arrow. The arrow misses you.
The centaur warrior shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
There is a stone staircase leading up, spattered with blood here.
Things that are here:
an arrow; a quokka skeleton
The centaur warrior shoots an arrow. The arrow hits you!
You die...

                 ...
              .8.....#
             ........###
           ............
          .... .......
         ..... ......
         <.... .....   #
       ###.#.# #.#.###.#
    .   ...#.# #.#...#.#
  ##.####..#.# #.#@....#
  .........#.# #.#.....#
####.#.....#.###.#..(..#
.<(....................#
  #....................#
  #........#...........#
  #.(..(..######....#..#
  #..#.#..c(.(.c.......#
  #....#.#######.####.##
  #.####.#     ..#   .#
  #)#  #.#    ####    .
  #.#  #.#            #
  #.#  #.#


You could see a centaur warrior.

Vanquished Creatures
  Pikel (D:5)
  Eustachio (D:6)
  Edmund (D:6)
  Menkaure (D:6)
  A slave (D:5)
  2 sky beasts
  An ogre (D:6)
  An orc warrior (D:8)
  An ice beast (D:6)
  3 centaurs
  A giant frog (D:7)
  10 big kobolds
  Blork the orc (D:6)
  A big kobold skeleton (D:8)
  A hound zombie (D:6)
  3 imps
  2 big fish
  3 orc priests (D:8)
  5 hounds
  A hound skeleton (D:6)
  5 worker ants
  An iguana (D:6)
  2 orc wizards
  7 scorpions
  2 jellies
  Ijyb (D:2)
  Jessica (D:2)
  A green rat (Port)
  11 snakes
  11 gnolls
  3 giant mites
  4 worms
  2 grey rats (Port)
  3 giant geckos
  3 oozes
  25 orcs
  25 bats
  16 hobgoblins
  13 jackals
  4 quokkas
  3 small snakes
  6 giant cockroaches
  10 giant newts
  16 goblins
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:6)
  26 kobolds
  12 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:5)
  8 fungi (D:5)
  6 toadstools
270 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  3 orcs (D:5)
  A goblin (D:6)
  A kobold (D:3)
  A giant newt (D:5)
  A rat (D:3)
  A fungus (D:5)
  15 toadstools
23 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 293 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Fuuuuuuu, the Centaur Hunter, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 17/17 MP: 0/0
   279 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 24/24 MP: 1/1
   447 | D:1      | Reached skill level 7 in Bows
   876 | D:2      | Noticed Jessica
   882 | D:2      | Defeated Jessica
   882 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 29/29 MP: 2/2
   954 | D:2      | Reached skill level 8 in Bows
  1134 | D:2      | Noticed Ijyb
  1162 | D:2      | Defeated Ijyb
  1162 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/36 MP: 2/2
  1478 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
  1519 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades
  1519 | D:3      | Reached skill level 9 in Bows
  1519 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 13/41 MP: 3/3
  2253 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Unarmed Combat
  2275 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 39/49 MP: 4/4
  2655 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Maces & Flails
  2655 | D:4      | Reached skill level 10 in Bows
  2979 | D:4      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  3111 | D:4      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  3147 | D:4      | Found a glowing drain.
  3167 | sewer    | Entered the sewers
  3278 | sewer    | Reached XP level 7. HP: 49/55 MP: 4/4
  3345 | sewer    | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  3693 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3723 | D:5      | Got a steaming hand axe
  3724 | D:5      | Identified the cursed hand axe "Rifueruo" {slay orc, Int+3} (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  4022 | D:5      | Reached skill level 11 in Bows
  4385 | D:5      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  4551 | D:5      | Got a golden long sword
  4557 | D:5      | Identified the Singing Sword (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)
  4652 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Axes
  4710 | D:5      | Noticed Pikel
  5008 | D:5      | Defeated Pikel
  5008 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades
  5008 | D:5      | Reached skill level 12 in Bows
  5008 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  5008 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Spellcasting
  5008 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 62/62 MP: 5/7
  5470 | D:6      | Noticed Edmund
  5476 | D:6      | Defeated Edmund
  5528 | D:6      | Noticed Menkaure
  5544 | D:6      | Defeated Menkaure
  6030 | D:6      | Noticed Eustachio
  6141 | D:6      | Defeated Eustachio
  6162 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 32/68 MP: 8/8
  6912 | D:6      | Noticed Blork the orc
  6938 | D:6      | Defeated Blork the orc
  7401 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7401 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7401 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7402 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7402 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7402 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7403 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7486 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  7514 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  7514 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  7525 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  7602 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  7606 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7608 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  7632 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7637 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  7643 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  7655 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  7753 | D:6      | Noticed a big kobold
  7761 | D:6      | Defeated a big kobold
  8102 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
  8355 | D:7      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8496 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  8502 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  8801 | D:7      | Became a worshipper of Trog the Wrathful
  9133 | D:8      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  9180 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  9193 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 10132 | D:9      | Acquired Trog's first power
 10150 | D:9      | Noticed a centaur warrior
 10168 | D:9      | Shot with an arrow by a centaur warrior

 

[Malakal]

Centaurs cant outrun centaurs now? This game tends to be really annoying.

Seems they keep adding shit for master players ignoring us casual ones. Gimmick races, gimmick branches and monsters. Somehow I have the feeling I am not the target audience for this.

 

[desocupado]

Okay, given Damned Registrations whining complaints, I decided to run a few Centaur hunters.

First one, died stupidly to bees with scroll of teleportation on hand.

Second one died to a centaur on D:2, no way to avoid that one.

Third one reached the lair and is still kicking.

And I'm not even a good player.

EDIT: Third guy died after clearing the lair, orc and swamp, in Snake:5, With a wand of healing AND a wand of teleport, AND some potions. That's what I get for playing sleepy, and being skimpy with consumables.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

I've been playing Stone Soup non-stop for two months since I read this topic drunk one night and I still haven't got two levels past the Temple of Oecumenical Whatever. I'd like to know if you explore thoroughly the first levels before going deeper (as to level up, get some average gear, identify scrolls and potions) or if you head up straight for the deeper ones to grab uber-loot while occasionally fleeing from the fucking Sigfried-likes?

Personnally my anal-retentiveness pushes me to absolutely explore all of the levels until I eventually come to my demise on D6 or D7 and it becomes fucking boring to map all of D1-D4/D5 again.

Yes I know I'm still a newcomer to it (---> always coming back to the stupid Minotaur Warrior build if I want to progress a bit). You advice is welcomed.

 

[Country_Gravy]

I've been playing Stone Soup non-stop for two months since I read this topic drunk one night and I still haven't got two levels past the Temple of Oecumenical Whatever. I'd like to know if you explore thoroughly the first levels before going deeper (as to level up, get some average gear, identify scrolls and potions) or if you head up straight for the deeper ones to grab uber-loot while occasionally fleeing from the fucking Sigfried-likes?

Personnally my anal-retentiveness pushes me to absolutely explore all of the levels until I eventually come to my demise on D6 or D7 and it becomes fucking boring to map all of D1-D4/D5 again.

Yes I know I'm still a newcomer to it (---> always coming back to the stupid Minotaur Warrior build if I want to progress a bit). You advice is welcomed.

This is pretty much me every time I try to get into this game. I think it might be time to jump into it again. Hopefully there will be some decent advice for those of us that can't figure out how to stay alive long enough to get to the various branches later on.

 

[desocupado]

Well bros, depends on what race/class you got.

Lemme see some basic stuff... (sleepy now).

Using the auto-explore key will make your life easier, just press "o".

You should definitely explore all. Crawl's progression is not so steep that awesome loot will make you invincible, and it's rare anyway. Much more precious is xp, and the minor stuff, like cloaks, helmets, gloves and boots you can find.

The game gets easier later on, the start is the hard part. And the ending. But the middle part is easier, so don't go thinking "It's this hard at the beginning, I don't know how I'll handle later"

You don't have to engage everything you see.

It's important you identify your stuff. Keep in mind that while that stack of 5 potions is probably healing, if you drink one of them during a fight it'll be poison, mutation or confusion.

After you have a fair amount of potions and scrolls, the scroll you have the most is probably identify, and if it's not, it's very very likely remove curse. Use the identify ones on the potions you have the most, until you find heal wounds and healing. Don't drink potions until you know what they are, to avoid drinking mutation potions. AFTER you've identified mutation, you can drink to identify, as long as there's no monster in sight.

You should try the unidentified scrolls, none of them are dangerous (except torment/holy word if you're undead, not really dangerous if you're alone).

Don't enter the orc mines as soon as you see it. In fact, it's better you explore all the way to d:9-12, and then come back to it, or better yet, explore some levels of the lair first.

The last levels of each branch are much harder than the others, lair ends on 8, orc mines ends on 4.

There's a few enemies you should avoid/be careful on D1-D9:

Centaur - Pain in the ass. Faster than you, and has a bow. Thankfully, it's rare early on. Get in cover and wait (5 key on the keypad) a few turns, he'll get closer, then you engage in melee, he does lower damage in melee.

Orc Wizards - Can go invisible and confuse you, depending on what spell set they get. Potions of healing heal confusion, and you can hit invisible things, but at a huge to-hit penalty. You can try running away, waiting a hundred or so turns, and then coming back and hoping he won't turn invisible again. Or simply avoid, he ain't worth much xp. He also sometimes uses magic dart and throw frost/flame, the latter two are more damaging.

Orc priests - Motherfuckers. Can hit you from anywhere, with undodgeable unresistable damage, no direct line of sight needed. If you reach one in melee, and you're not much of a weakling, you can kill it, but he's still dangerous if it decides to chain smite you, even in melee.

Orc warriors - Basically much tougher orcs. MUCH tougher.

Bees - Faster than snakes, very hard to hit due to high evasion, poisonous attack. You see one, you can try to kill it, you see a group, you teleport right away, and avoid the rest of the level.

Ogre - Lowish hp, low accuracy, but can do 30 damage in one hit. They move at average speed (same as most races), but have slow attacks and you might be able to take an extra step before he can move, thus creating a gap.

 

[MisterStone]

Sometimes in the early game I like to dive quickly down like 5 levels and grab some wands and maybe a nice weapon or something, then go back up to levels I can actually handle. It gets me killed a lot, but it sort of breaks up the tedium of an early game, also helps avoid those "BULLSHIT!" moments when you get analized by an ood monster early on.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

What interesting build would you advise for a newbie except for the obvious Minotaur/Dwarf Warrior/Berzerker "tank"? I also tried a lot of different Wizards but I'm sure that there are more interesting spellcasters.

 

[Teepo]

I've been playing Stone Soup non-stop for two months since I read this topic drunk one night and I still haven't got two levels past the Temple of Oecumenical Whatever. I'd like to know if you explore thoroughly the first levels before going deeper (as to level up, get some average gear, identify scrolls and potions) or if you head up straight for the deeper ones to grab uber-loot while occasionally fleeing from the fucking Sigfried-likes?

Personnally my anal-retentiveness pushes me to absolutely explore all of the levels until I eventually come to my demise on D6 or D7 and it becomes fucking boring to map all of D1-D4/D5 again.

Yes I know I'm still a newcomer to it (---> always coming back to the stupid Minotaur Warrior build if I want to progress a bit). You advice is welcomed.

I've been playing regularly since June or something and for 3 months I couldn't get past d:10 or lair. Then in September I managed to get a Ogre Berserker to D:27 and back, pretty much out of nowhere.

For one thing, the main fucker up of gameplans is uniques and ghosts. I only encountered 1 ghost the entire game. With a lot of class\race combos you can't even touch Grinder on D:4 so you have to avoid him, keep going then come back with something and beat the shit out of him. But what are uniques to avoid and what are juicy ones to kill come with intuition.

Also the difference between losing and winning is a very fine line. Numerous times, I had to throw down against creatures with less then 50 hp (executioner, mummy priest.) All you need to survive is to barely scrape and if you can do this every time shit goes down then you win the game.

Also, when you run into something that has to die (Orc priest, Orc wizard, annoying unique, ogre, orc warrior, hydra) you should hit it with everything you have. If you realize you don't have anything to even touch the creature then you need to work on an escape. Escapes aren't that tricky depending on what you have. For example, blink scrolls are OP. You have two blink scrolls? Blink twice and escape up the stairs. Tele is also useful you just have to use it slightly ahead of time. Your first action when you see a bad enemy actually seems to matter a lot so try to start with something that hits hard, or go berserk. Apparantly spellcasters in this game don't cast as frequently when you are in their melee range so if you want to kill an orc priest, it would be better to stand next to him, rather then try to wear him down at range.

Also it's good to have some sort of gameplan with the race\combo you have. The only character that I consistently get to Lair is an ogre of some sort. Ogre Berserkers have a notoriously simple game plan. Step one: level fighting and maces. Step two: find a giant spiked club. Step 3: equip giant spiked club and continue leveling fighting and maces. Step 4: Find a hydra then berserk the shit out of it.

If you really get in a bind (like you find a room full of bees.) Summon brothers and arms, try to get a choke point, and try to have the summon absorb all the poison damage. A lot of it is weathering the storm, and once you actually survive, it's just about clean up, at least with Ogre Berserker.

Oh and the nice thing about Ogre Berserker is that no creature has a resistance to getting smacked with a giant club. Normally you have to avoid uniques and ghosts, but with OgBe, you just have to get them alone, berserk, and they're done. Unless they are like a Troll Transmuter ghost or something.

 

[MisterStone]

BCP I think any demonspawn as a damage-dealing spellcaster (including transmuter or summoner) is another pretty good combo. The demonspawns get good defensive mutations usually (I think they all get some kind of scales) and some other gimmicks such as fire breath that can keep them alive early on. The natural armor is good for a spellcaster since it does not interfere with magic, too.

There are various "hump" spells for various classes (spells that suddenly make the game easier as soon as you can cast them reliably) some examples:

Transmuter: spider form (probably good around Clvl 4-5 or so I think)/ blade hands
Conjurer: mephitic cloud (you can use it around C lvl 3 or so) and much later freezing cloud
Summoner: Summon Imps (C level 2) and Summon Scorpions or Summon Ice Beasts (a good bit later, maybe CLvl 9 or 10)
Necromancer: Vampiric Strike (CLvl 3) and Animate dead (C Levl 4)
Earth ELementalist: Rapid Deconstruction (probably like C lvl 7, maybe later)

I'm sure people who are good at other classes can name other spells.

The trick to these classes in my experience is to manage spell skills carefully so you can use the more useful spells as soon as possible, then sort of diversify and gain combat skills/ more useful spells in schools you don't know yet.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Alternate strategy for all those enemies: I HAS MEPHITIC CLOUD DUUURRRRRRRR!
Seriously I thought that spell was going to get bumped up like 2-3 levels about 4 versions ago.

The way I ascended is probably the easiest. Pick Spriggan, some kind of spellcaster class, acquire meph cloud ASAP. Use it to murder pretty much anything in early game that is actually dangerous at all. Pick Nemelex as your god and obtain a bajillion summon decks from saccing all the corpses. Use summon decks to rape mid and late game until you have all the spellbooks you need to rape without them. By the time Meph cloud starts to get weak you can probably start abusing the fuck out of Alistair's Lineofsight Mindrape. Keep a huge pile of junk rings, high quality weapons and armor, potions, etc. in a stash at the temple. Before endgame, go through stashes one by one saccing everything to get specific decks. Stack various decks to have brokenly powerful cards on demand for your orb run. Burn through the 30 summon decks you never used on Zot:5 for shits and giggles and watch them rape the entire level without you.

 

[desocupado]

Well, Enchanters are Crawl easy mode. Just put everything to sleep and go stabbity on their faces.

If you put something to sleep, and it awakes, you can't put it to sleep again. You can confuse it, tho. Undead can't be put to sleep, but can be confused.

It requires some messing with the skills.

You enable hexes until you have just enough to cast the sleep and confuse spells at great or better, then disable hexes and spell casting. After that you need some decent stabbing and stealth ASAP, but don't need to get those very high. Basically, if you one-hit kill sleeping stuff, you have enough stabbing.

Short Blades is not so important, but fighting gives extra hp, which is always good. And dodging keeps you alive.

Venom Mages are pretty easy to play too, but need to branch out mid-late game, because poison loses a bit of power.

Ice elementalists are powerful once they get Throw Icicle, but they don't have Mephitic cloud.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Cool, I'll try the Orc Berzerker and the Spriggan Enchanter. I did try the Demonspawn on all of my last tries, really loved the spike skin mutation but it didn't get me very far neither.

I never neither really played with the skill augmenting priority stuff, is it mandatory?

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

I've been playing Stone Soup non-stop for two months since I read this topic drunk one night and I still haven't got two levels past the Temple of Oecumenical Whatever. I'd like to know if you explore thoroughly the first levels before going deeper (as to level up, get some average gear, identify scrolls and potions) or if you head up straight for the deeper ones to grab uber-loot while occasionally fleeing from the fucking Sigfried-likes?

Personnally my anal-retentiveness pushes me to absolutely explore all of the levels until I eventually come to my demise on D6 or D7 and it becomes fucking boring to map all of D1-D4/D5 again.

Yes I know I'm still a newcomer to it (---> always coming back to the stupid Minotaur Warrior build if I want to progress a bit). You advice is welcomed.

This is pretty much me every time I try to get into this game. I think it might be time to jump into it again. Hopefully there will be some decent advice for those of us that can't figure out how to stay alive long enough to get to the various branches later on.

Here's my advice for beginners:

- Play as a pure spellcaster or hybrid (transmuter, scald, etc.)

- Go with a fast race (spriggan is good for beginners) or hope you get lucky and find swiftness early (air elementalists have swiftness in their starting books).

- If you start to get mobbed, retreat to the nearest hallway so you can take them one-by-one.

- Make heavy use of the cloud spells: evaporate, mephitic, poisonous, freezing. If you have both poisonous and mephitic, cast poisonous first and then mephitic on top of it.

- You can hit an enemy with mephitic cloud (evaporate) even when they're right next to you (without hitting yourself) by targeting one square to the side and two squares behind them. If you don't have enough room, keep walking backwards until the space opens up.

- Low level summons have no offense, but they can be used as meat shields to slow the enemy down when you need to escape

- Learn repel missiles (deflect later) and cast it immediately upon seeing a dangerous ranged enemy - centaur and cyclops early, yaktaur and stone giant late. Shields (condensation shield) will also block ranged attacks.

- When you encounter a large number of tough enemies clustered together (Elven Halls 5, Zot 5), you can draw them out a few at a time by casting noisy spells at the periphery (or using a noise scroll)

- Multiple instances of regeneration stack - troll hide, 2 rings of regen and the regen spell will result in 3-4 hps gained per turn. Remember to swap out rings of regen once you've reached max health.

- If things begin to look bad, do whatever it takes to get out of there. Don't worry about conserving anything. If you need to use 5 teleport scrolls in a row to survive, do it. I actually had to do this in Zot 5 once, and that character ended up getting out with the orb.

 

[Teepo]

Honestly, enchanter is really hard for me.

"skill augmenting priority stuff, is it mandatory?"

For me it is because especially when I play wizard because... Spells have different power levels depending on your skills. So a level one magic dart will have trouble against a Hobgoblin, but a level 2 magic dart will tear through one. So as a wizard, on d:1, you want to focus conjurations, until magic dart is level 2, then when you can defend yourself, level what you need.

May as well talk about wizard. Wizard is good. I get him particularly for mephitic cloud. (durr) So I meph everything and everyone one and if I can't meph them I spam imps and get out.

 

[MisterStone]

You realize that simply by using 't, t' you can just 'yell', which causes enemies to notice you? I use this a lot when I want to get a sleeping or clueless monster to follow me into a hallway.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

May as well talk about wizard. Wizard is good. I get him particularly for mephitic cloud. (durr) So I meph everything and everyone one and if I can't meph them I spam imps and get out.

That's what I was doing also on all of my last tries: Wizard Demonspawn But then I always fell on the fucking named orc or such an equivalent beast who would bash my brains out before I had the time to escape.