Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup questions/thread

[Zomg]

Ignite poison takes too much investment to be worth using and swamp and snake are easy anyway. It's only for fun. I wouldn't bother with dragon form either.

Dig is decent for utility's sake I guess. Statue form is only really good if you already have a large investment in earth magic, the AC it grants goes only scales with your earth skill (and it has synergy with the stoneskin spell, which also only scales with earth skill). If you have no armor slots like a Felid or Octopode it's probably worth it to build earth from scratch but anyone else I wouldn't bother. Just stick with blade hands, its still a whole-game spell

Rather I would invest all points in unarmed and defense (armor,dodge, fighting). A demonspawn gets a lot out of armor with the awesome boosts from scales, since guaranteed damage resistance is like a multiplier for all +AC buffs. Wearing like elven scale mail, a +4 or so ring of protection and +7-10 from scales makes you a tank, and you can trade up for swamp or plain dragon armor later.

God wise the answer is usually Makhleb if you aren't using many missile weapons and can't summon or cast conjurations on your own - his invocations are even cheaper for a demonspawn - but Okawaru works OK too... unless you happen to get the demonic servant mutation, which spams out shitty imps and things and Okawaru gives you piety demerits when they die. Sif doesn't work great with hybrid caster-fighters because she only gives piety for putting more XP into magic skills - so you get half as much piety as full casters basically, meaning the gifts that are the point of Sif Muna start coming incredibly late. They need to put in a transmutations god analogous to Vehumet or Kiku that gifts the relevant spellbooks and gives you wizardy/power boosts so you can really be a dedicated shapeshifter switching between forms all the time instead of "blade hands melee character".



The ring won't be a huge boost to anything, maybe get it if you are having a lot of food trouble since int reduces spell hunger.

 

[Malakal]

Only get ignite poison if you have poison cloud for poor man firestorm. Or if you have problems with snake pit. Or if you have an amnesia scroll to spare. For me this spell is kinda nice to have but gets removed after midgame.

Dig is mostly useless, wands do that cheaper.

I support Makhleb, its an awesome all around god with great utility and branch clearing abilities.

 

[Teepo]

@Mister Stone

You also have a demonic guardian mutation! Those are my favorite.

Dig is especially useful when you have the orb of zot and you're trying to get to d:1 ASAP. You don't know if or when you need it, but it can be good at creating an escape route where there is none. Like, if you get cornered in a stone room, you can get creative with dig.

I guess I would focus on earth, since you already have the transmutations to cast Statue form you just need earth, and Statue form is along the way to shatter which you probably want.

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

Dig is especially useful when you have the orb of zot and you're trying to get to d:1 ASAP. You don't know if or when you need it, but it can be good at creating an escape route where there is none. Like, if you get cornered in a stone room, you can get creative with dig.

Yup, I always carry several wands of digging with me for the ascent.

I just won Crawl with a mummy and really didn't find it too difficult (once you get swiftness) other than a few close calls at the end. Felids are probably more challenging to play due to their low HPs and lack of armor, where they can be one-shotted by ranged attacks.

I was able to clear Zot almost entirely using the Shadow Creatures spell. It doesn't require much summoning skill, and yet it's incredibly powerful in high level areas like Zot and Vault 8.

With a decent Invocations skill, you can abuse Sif Muna's Channel Energy for as much as 5-6 MP per turn.

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.1 character file.

1731135 Mundane the Sorcerer (level 27, 196/196 (204) HPs)
Began as a Mummy Wizard on Oct 6, 2011.
Was the Champion of Sif Muna.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 4 runes on Oct 9, 2011!

The game lasted 1day 11:13:55 (117067 turns).

Mundane the Sorcerer (Mummy Wizard) Turns: 117067, Time: 1, 11:13:55

HP 196/196 (204) AC 31 Str 10 XL: 27
MP 47/47 EV 8 Int 26 God: Sif Muna [******]
Gold 4873 SH 0 Dex 9 Spells: 16 memorised, 2 levels left

Res.Fire : + . . See Invis. : + i - +22,+13 Staff of Wucad Mu
Res.Cold : + + . Warding : . . a - +7 dragon armour
Life Prot.: + + + Conserve : + (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . . Res.Corr. : . y - +0 mask of the Dragon {MR Acc+2 Dam+2 SInv
Res.Poison: + Clarity : . H - +0 cloak
Res.Elec. : + Spirit.Shd : . g - +2 pair of dwarf gloves
Sust.Abil.: . . Stasis : . M - +0 pair of boots
Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: x K - amulet of conservation
Res.Rott. : + Levitation : . J - ring of Stixocis {rC+ AC+5 Stlth--}
Saprovore : . . . Ctrl.Flight: . F - ring "Imakkaph" {rElec rC+ Dex-1 SInv}

@: burdened, quick, extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: no food or potions, fire vulnerability, strongly in touch with death, cold resistance 1, life
protection 3, poison resistance, torment resistance, unbreathing
a: Self-Restoration, Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, barnacled, silver, golden


You escaped.
You worshipped Sif Muna.
Sif Muna was exalted by your worship.
You were encumbered.
You were not hungry.

You visited 14 branches of the dungeon, and saw 85 of its levels.
You visited 1 Labyrinth.
You visited 1 Ziggurat, and saw 10 of its levels.
You visited 3 portal chambers: spiders nest, ice cave, wizlab.

You collected 10322 gold pieces.
You spent 2389 gold pieces at shops.
You used 3080 gold pieces for miscellaneous purposes.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
i - the +22,+13 Staff of Wucad Mu (weapon)
(You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)
q - the +6,+6 Lehudib's crystal spear (quivered) {return, Int+3}
(You found it on level 5 of the Crypt)

A skilled user can throw it in such a way that it will return to its owner.


It affects your intelligence (+3).

Presumably this relic led to the invention of the famous spell, or maybe the
other way around.
s - the +8,+8 storm bow {elec}
(You found it on level 5 of the Elven Halls)

It charges the ammunition it shoots with electricity; occasionally upon a
hit, such missiles may discharge and cause terrible harm.
Q - the +4,+2 long sword of Mosm {freeze, rC++ Int+3 SInv}
(You found it on level 5 of the Realm of Zot)

It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly susceptible
opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.


It affects your intelligence (+3).
It greatly protects you from cold.
It enhances your eyesight.
S - the +4,+2 long sword of Gheethih {venom, *Rage +Rage rF++ SInv}
(You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)

It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.


It greatly protects you from fire.
It enhances your eyesight.
It lets you go berserk.
It makes you angry.
W - the +7,+8 katana "Bloodbane" {slice, *Rage +Rage Stlth-}
(You found it on level 5 of a ziggurat)

It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.


It lets you go berserk.
It makes you angry.
It makes you less stealthy.
Missiles
n - 30 +6 arrows
p - 34 +0 arrows of dispersal
Armour
a - a +7 dragon armour (worn)
d - a +0 troll leather armour
g - a +2 pair of dwarven gloves (worn)
y - the +0 mask of the Dragon (worn) {MR Acc+2 Dam+2 SInv}
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)


It affects your accuracy (+2).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
It increases your resistance to enchantments.
It enhances your eyesight.
A - the +0 buckler of Grace {Dex+3 Int+2 Acc+2}
(You acquired it on level 27 of the Dungeon)


It affects your intelligence (+2).
It affects your dexterity (+3).
It affects your accuracy (+2).
H - a +0 cloak (worn)
M - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
Magical devices
c - a wand of invisibility (1)
e - a wand of teleportation (3)
O - a wand of digging (11)
U - a wand of digging (6)
X - a wand of hasting (3)
Scrolls
j - 6 scrolls of recharging
l - a scroll of amnesia
o - a scroll of detect curse
z - 4 scrolls of fog
N - a scroll of magic mapping
P - 6 scrolls of identify
Y - 2 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
b - an uncursed ring of regeneration
f - the ring "Brugirarch" {rF+ MR Acc+2}
(You found it on level 5 of the Elven Halls)

[ring of protection from fire]

It affects your accuracy (+2).
It increases your resistance to enchantments.
h - an uncursed ring of teleport control
k - an uncursed ring of levitation
m - an uncursed ring of teleportation
r - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
u - an uncursed ring of regeneration
v - the ring "Gius" {rPois Str+6}
(You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)

[ring of strength]
It affects your strength (+6).

It protects you from poison.
x - an uncursed ring of wizardry
C - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
F - the ring "Imakkaph" (left hand) {rElec rC+ Dex-1 SInv}
(You found it on level 22 of the Dungeon)

[ring of protection from cold]

It affects your dexterity (-1).
It insulates you from electricity.
It enhances your eyesight.
G - the ring "Rume" {Ice Str+4}
(You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)

[ring of ice]

It affects your strength (+4).
J - the ring of Stixocis (right hand) {rC+ AC+5 Stlth--}
(You found it on level 5 of the Crypt)

[ring of protection]
It affects your AC (+5).

It protects you from cold.
It makes you much less stealthy.
K - an amulet of conservation (around neck)
R - an uncursed ring of wizardry
V - the ring of Reyj {Dam+1 MP+9}
(You found it on level 6 of a ziggurat)

[ring of magical power]

It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+1).
Magical staves
T - a staff of wizardry
Orbs of Power
I - the Orb of Zot

 

[MisterStone]

+22 +13 staff? is that a fixed artifact, or a randart? Do they have randart magical staves now?

 

[golgepapaz]

1731135 Mundane the Sorcerer (level 27, 196/196 (204) HPs)
Began as a Mummy Wizard on Oct 6, 2011.
Was the Champion of Sif Muna.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 4 runes on Oct 9, 2011!

The game lasted 1day 11:13:55 (117067 turns).

Mundane the Sorcerer (Mummy Wizard) Turns: 117067, Time: 1, 11:13:55

HP 196/196 (204) AC 31 Str 10 XL: 27
MP 47/47 EV 8 Int 26 God: Sif Muna [******]
Gold 4873 SH 0 Dex 9 Spells: 16 memorised, 2 levels left

Res.Fire : + . . See Invis. : + i - +22,+13 Staff of Wucad Mu
Res.Cold : + + . Warding : . . a - +7 dragon armour
Life Prot.: + + + Conserve : + (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . . Res.Corr. : . y - +0 mask of the Dragon {MR Acc+2 Dam+2 SInv
Res.Poison: + Clarity : . H - +0 cloak
Res.Elec. : + Spirit.Shd : . g - +2 pair of dwarf gloves
Sust.Abil.: . . Stasis : . M - +0 pair of boots
Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: x K - amulet of conservation
Res.Rott. : + Levitation : . J - ring of Stixocis {rC+ AC+5 Stlth--}
Saprovore : . . . Ctrl.Flight: . F - ring "Imakkaph" {rElec rC+ Dex-1 SInv}

meh , I 've coded the -cTele signal, because I was constantly forgetting the current level does not allow controlled teleports (especially after a load from past games )and died every now and then.

 

[golgepapaz]

+22 +13 staff? is that a fixed artifact, or a randart? Do they have randart magical staves now?

it's an unrandart, but I believe the enchantment is random

 

[desocupado]

I just want to add, that if you're playing a mummy, every wand that a monster has is a wand of fire, and every robe/ring is a robe of positive energy.

Seriously, from the last 10 mummies I've played, 4 died to a wand of fire in the hands of a shitty monster.

 

[MisterStone]

Actually I spoilered it, and the enchantment is based directly on INT score, the higher the INT the higher the enchant... Pretty badass I must say. Also can be invoked for channelling mana, but you risk a divinations miscast effect which is particularly nasty IIRC.

 

[sirfink]

I just want to add, that if you're playing a mummy, every wand that a monster has is a wand of fire, and every robe/ring is a robe of positive energy.

Seriously, from the last 10 mummies I've played, 4 died to a wand of fire in the hands of a shitty monster.

I always seem to run into a goblin on D:2 wielding a +4 mace of positive energy. Only when I'm playing an undead character. That can't be random coincidence.

 

[desocupado]

I'm wondering if it's worth joining Sif Muna at all. I mean, the mana channeling is nice, but you gotta waste turns on that. Vehumet gives you mana for free as you kill stuff, and you don't have to waste a turn next to a very lethal monster like an idiot. And there's no hunger cost attached.

When dealing with mobs and using spells like bolt of cold/fire, it's usual for you to have MORE after you cast the spell than before.

I'm playing a HEWi, of Vehumet, and boy, it's like Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup easy mode. I don't know why the hell I didn't win with one of those before, maybe it's my training with mummies, but I'm having a nice run. I only had to use a potion of heal wounds once.

I know Vehumet won't gift me some books Sif Muna will, but when playing mummies of Sif Muna, I run out of mana all the time. With Vehumet, I just blast shit away.

The difference in skill levels is probably significant, tho, as the HE higher skills will end up giving me more spell power, and I didn't have bolt of foo spells with my last mummy. Still...

 

[Raghar]

I always seem to run into a goblin on D:2 wielding a +4 mace of positive energy. Only when I'm playing an undead character. That can't be random coincidence.

Ever head about Siegfried?

 

[Zomg]

I'm wondering if it's worth joining Sif Muna at all. I mean, the mana channeling is nice, but you gotta waste turns on that. Vehumet gives you mana for free as you kill stuff, and you don't have to waste a turn next to a very lethal monster like an idiot. And there's no hunger cost attached.

When dealing with mobs and using spells like bolt of cold/fire, it's usual for you to have MORE after you cast the spell than before.

I'm playing a HEWi, of Vehumet, and boy, it's like Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup easy mode. I don't know why the hell I didn't win with one of those before, maybe it's my training with mummies, but I'm having a nice run. I only had to use a potion of heal wounds once.

I know Vehumet won't gift me some books Sif Muna will, but when playing mummies of Sif Muna, I run out of mana all the time. With Vehumet, I just blast shit away.

The difference in skill levels is probably significant, tho, as the HE higher skills will end up giving me more spell power, and I didn't have bolt of foo spells with my last mummy. Still...

I also think Sif kinda sucks compared to Vehumet or Kiku. She does start gifting books a fair bit earlier than Vehumet for a totally pure caster though, and the channelling power is not useless. Not bad with a venom mage in my experience. Vehumet also never gives shatter or tornado. She's one of the gods I'll take on D2 but not if I don't see any useful altars before temple.

 

[Malakal]

Vehumet is meant purely for blasters and summoners and he excels at that. Not only does he give mp for kills but he also makes your spells cheaper, easier to cast and more powerful. Really, the only thing Sif has over him for blasters/summoners is the fact that you will get every spell in game with her.

Mana channelling is a different issue. Sif doesnt give much mana per try but its safe, safer than crystal balls and better than staves of channelling. With Vehument you will run out of mana fighting "boss" enemies unless minions also happen to be present. Of course this is when those energy potions come in handy...

 

[Zomg]

But what other kind of caster benefits from Sif Muna? The books you get in a reasonable time with Sif are all based on your highest spell skills, so she mostly just expands on your starting book until very late bullshit time when you will be tripping over random dungeon spellbooks anyway. Enchanters don't use very much mana and their starting book has spells you can use for like 75% of the game or more, same for transmuters. And both are hybrids that won't get the highest piety output. Necromancers have Kiku. Warpers and Charmers/Skald types are mostly just fighters with a couple of tricks now, they'll take forever get enough piety for Sif.

 

[Malakal]

Good point, perhaps mummies (for free mana) and "rainbow" mages aiming for more than just the orb.

But really, dont ask me, I always pick Vehumet. I prefer my spells to come in known qualities and at appropriate time.

 

[Zomg]

Even with mummies, the wizardry (spell success%) boost from Vehumet helps counter the shitty aptitudes and lets you benefit from being able to cast spells that would wreck a normal character with spell hunger. They could make Sif like have an early-game manageable wrath (no random banishments at least) and gift a beginner book at ** or *** to let her compete with Kiku as a "right here, right now" magic god for wanderers or hybrids.

Edit - Hah, on crawl develz they have an idea to reinforce her flavor as a librarian and give her silence-themed powers and piety gain/loss.

 

[MisterStone]

WTF bros Orc Mines level one, right at the staircase there's a fucking sorcerer, several warriors, a knight, priests nearby and a troll not far away. I had a L.11 minotaur priest who converted to the Shining one, and he was kicking ass I tell you. I had an artifact greatsword, and the Shranga bow, +0,8 ROS amulet of piety, etc. etc.

 

[Malakal]

Erm, so run like hell? Unless they surrounded you and one shot you you can do it. Pop haste, teleport, go up.

 

[MisterStone]

The problem is, you don't stick it out at least for a little while it won't be safe to go down the stairs until you're already ridiculously over-leveled. At first there was just that sorcerer and a couple of bitch-ass regular orcs; I guess I got too cocky and decided I could take the fuckers, then the tanks appeared from around the corner followed by the rest, and I tried to blink away from the staircase and make a bee-line for the spellcasters.

Yes, my own stupidity is my worst enemy.

 

[Raghar]

You roleplayed Minotaur excellently.

 

[MisterStone]

BTW does anyone know what the best ranged weapon option for a fighter that wields 2h weapons? I've got another Shining One char and figure I can use the divine shield when necessary and wield a big mugfuggin axe. Right now I have a bow of flaming, a spear of returning + javelins, or an unenchanted crossbow to choose from.

 

[Zomg]

In the very long run, crossbow; you will eventually get penetration, steel, and silver bolts off of yaktaur packs on like DL:20+ and vaults. Those things just evaporate enemies (use enchant scrolls on the steel ones, a stack of ~40 will last the whole game even with constant use with plenty left over). Longbow is still pretty good though and the ammo will be plentiful earlier. Javelins are probably just as good as the crossbow but you will have to be really lucky to get a stack of steel ones worth enchanting (only going to happen if you get shoals, and then maybe 50%/50% even then).

In trunk both Trog and Okawaru now sometimes gift javelins to normal-sized characters with throwing skill over 8 so that's a way to quasi-guarantee steel javelins now.

 

[desocupado]

I've been wanting to try a 15 rune run these days, and I'm wondering how to proceed. I tried entering some of the hells with a mummy wizard recently, but the sheer amount of stuff that gets summoned around you was making it impossible to go on.

I could kill the first group, the second maybe, but I would have to rest some time, and then a group pops out of thin air, and I'm low on mana/hp.

I'm wondering if I should have just hasted my char and run for the next stairs, but I understand there's tough stuff to kill on the final levels.

And let's not even talk about the bloody rotting. I hadn't found a wand of healing that game, so I was 13 hp down for the count, with no way of restoring it other than sacrificing my mp.

It was a fairly powerful character, with Ice Storm at Very Good, decent equipment, some summoning spells, but not quite high level ones.

The nerf in abjuration makes the tomb a fuckload more difficult now. That's where I lost the char.

Also, fuck ice, all fucking undead resist ice.

 

[Zomg]

Ice storm does a huge amount of unresistable damage.

There's a level 7 I think mass abjuration spell in the summoning school that works like old abjuration. Summon Horrible Things is also good to fill up space with your own tough torment-immune summons and they'll tear down the hell bosses pretty quickly too if you haste the stronger individuals in the pack. You will probably have to completely clean out Zot to be able to cast all that shit with mummy aptitudes though.