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Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup questions/thread
- Thread starter Zomg
- Start date
MisterStone
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2006
- Messages
- 9,422
Zomg said:
I played for the first time in several months, and died on DL 9, in part because I had accidentally thrown my summoner spellbook at a jelly (by mistake, the caps lock was on) and did not have the ability to summon ice beasts or scorpions to kill it. And the extra dumb thing was, I was a summoner who didn't even need to throw shit at the jelly to kill it. So don't be so hard on yourself bro.
desocupado
Magister
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1,802
I should be happier with this one. It's my fourth win ever, after god knows how many tries. Thing is, I was ready to tackle the Hells and go for a 15 rune run, but when I was going to enter Dis, the portals were closed, because I had already visited Zot:5. I thought the portals closed only when you grabbed the bloody Orb of Zot!
I already had done the Slime Pits, I decided to get the Abyss one, but after a fuckton of time running around there, I decided to enter the exit upon finding it. Another fucktime passes until I find the exit, and I get out. I'm wondering if the Abyss Orb is even still in the game, since it's a boring one to get, the developers might have cut it out.
The Orb of Zot now has a mutagenic glow, so be prepared to get mutated like a motherfucker, specially if you don't have an amulet of resist mutation. Even with one, I still had 5 bad mutations while going from zot 5 to d1.
I got Demonic Guardian 3 and Ice mail, but only on level 27. :/
I also trained Translocations to level 14, just to use Controlled Blink in the Hells, and I didn't enter the hells, and Zot:5 and the ascencion don't allow tele control, so I ended up not even using it the whole game.
My final mutations, including the bad ones from the orb's glow:
You have a pair of large antennae on your head (SInv).
You are completely covered in rugged brown scales (AC +2, +7% HP).
Your flesh is cold resistant.
You are very good at protecting items from cold.
A powerful demonic guardian rushes to your aid.
A meltable icy envelope protects you from harm and freezing vapours (AC +10).
You are immune to negative energy.
Your vision is a little blurry.
Your body is slowly deteriorating.
You are frail (-10% HP).
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
You cover ground slowly.
EDIT: Checked the changelog, no indication of removal of Abyssal Rune.
desocupado
Magister
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1,802
Zomg said:
:facepalm:
I forgot about that.
hoverdog
dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
this mofo:
so far just breezes through the game. the only real problem i had were bands of death yaks in lair (1-2 didn't pose a problem, but overally Leslaw killed 20 of those) and Rupert. That -10% MP mutation sucks, but I'm saving my cure mut potion for later. demonspawn mutations could be better too, +30%HP and ice is nice, powered by death is cool, especially in large bloodbaths, but having three body muts rather than scales is a
. I was lucky with the randarts though, especially the dagger, which helped immensely early game (Leslaw stabbed rather than cast spells before he found his first ice book).
now a question - what should i do now? Elf halls? Shoals? Vault till L7 (no good answer to undead though)?
so far just breezes through the game. the only real problem i had were bands of death yaks in lair (1-2 didn't pose a problem, but overally Leslaw killed 20 of those) and Rupert. That -10% MP mutation sucks, but I'm saving my cure mut potion for later. demonspawn mutations could be better too, +30%HP and ice is nice, powered by death is cool, especially in large bloodbaths, but having three body muts rather than scales is a
. I was lucky with the randarts though, especially the dagger, which helped immensely early game (Leslaw stabbed rather than cast spells before he found his first ice book).now a question - what should i do now? Elf halls? Shoals? Vault till L7 (no good answer to undead though)?
Teepo
Scholar
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2011
- Messages
- 892
You should have see invis for Elf Halls and just be very careful for Shoals. You think everything is going fine, then a Siren mesmerizes you in deep water, and you get flanked by 10 different creatures and merfolk.
Wait, so is it possible to overcome -rTele with enough translocation skill?
The big problem I had on elves was they summoned sun demons and an ice devil, which almost killed me. Otherwise I was gravy.
I would do vault til 7 or until it gets annoying, maybe a little main dungeon, then start Shoals or start Elf and try to finish unless it gets annoying. Tombs is seriously annoying as hell with the Curse Skulls, mummy priest and the Lich. Those three guys almost got me, the Lich because he summoned an executioner. Fucking summons, man.
I'm not sure what's worse, Elf 5 or Shoals. Probably Elf 5.
Wait, so is it possible to overcome -rTele with enough translocation skill?
The big problem I had on elves was they summoned sun demons and an ice devil, which almost killed me. Otherwise I was gravy.
I would do vault til 7 or until it gets annoying, maybe a little main dungeon, then start Shoals or start Elf and try to finish unless it gets annoying. Tombs is seriously annoying as hell with the Curse Skulls, mummy priest and the Lich. Those three guys almost got me, the Lich because he summoned an executioner. Fucking summons, man.
I'm not sure what's worse, Elf 5 or Shoals. Probably Elf 5.
Zomg
Arbiter
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2005
- Messages
- 6,984
Elf is a special case because the enemies are kinda peculiar glass cannons. Some sets of character abilities can tear through it at a very low level no problem, for others it's more dangerous than Vault:8. Shoals enemies are mostly just generically tough and damaging.
Teepo
Scholar
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- Jun 24, 2011
- Messages
- 892
I only beat Elves 5 with a Ogre Berserker (Large throwing rocks were my only ranged) and an overleveled one at that so that might answer a few questions. I did make a huge mistake though as they summoned a sun demon and an ice devil.
Minotaurs are insanely dangerous. They can rip apart Hill Giants, probably ettins, cyclopses and titans too.
I haven't actually come across one but in the Arena mode they just mangle things.
Arena mode is awesome though I don't understand what words to use.
Transmuters, in my opinion, have very good starting kits. I really don't understand the starting kits for say Wizard or Necromancer and how to lay the smackdown with them but with transmuter is seems very well thought out.
Evaporate at annoying things, like orcs, and when you get rPois, defensively against unseen horrors. For the poison resistant, like Uniques and imps, you should just avoid them and go down a level. Then when you get blade hands come back and kill them. In general when you come across uniques from d:2-5 ignore them until you get blade hands, then come back and kill them. Blade hands is the counter to undead and if possible against an enemy use confuse against them, then blade hands. If you need to escape you can use spiderform, as he's a good runner. That should right away handle a good portion of early game creatures. I'm still not sure what to do against hydras, because blade hands versus them is a death sentence. If I were to do it again I would try to get my unarmed skill really high somewhere in the main dungeon or wherever i could go, then take them on in iceform, and if possible use an amulet of berserk.
desocupado said:
Minotaurs are insanely dangerous. They can rip apart Hill Giants, probably ettins, cyclopses and titans too.
I haven't actually come across one but in the Arena mode they just mangle things.
Arena mode is awesome though I don't understand what words to use.
hoverdog said:
Transmuters, in my opinion, have very good starting kits. I really don't understand the starting kits for say Wizard or Necromancer and how to lay the smackdown with them but with transmuter is seems very well thought out.
Evaporate at annoying things, like orcs, and when you get rPois, defensively against unseen horrors. For the poison resistant, like Uniques and imps, you should just avoid them and go down a level. Then when you get blade hands come back and kill them. In general when you come across uniques from d:2-5 ignore them until you get blade hands, then come back and kill them. Blade hands is the counter to undead and if possible against an enemy use confuse against them, then blade hands. If you need to escape you can use spiderform, as he's a good runner. That should right away handle a good portion of early game creatures. I'm still not sure what to do against hydras, because blade hands versus them is a death sentence. If I were to do it again I would try to get my unarmed skill really high somewhere in the main dungeon or wherever i could go, then take them on in iceform, and if possible use an amulet of berserk.
MisterStone
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2006
- Messages
- 9,422
Another thing you should understand about transmuters is how the Sticks to Snakes spell works- if you use arrows it summon little snakes, but if you wield a club, staff (maybe spear etc.) and cast it, it makes full-sized snakes or perhaps even nastier ones. I remember in the previous versions I could get some real mean snakes by using staves and whatnot. I am not sure if giant clubs are more effective, but it's a moot point if you're not an ogre anyway. It's not a huge game-changer, but it can help out a lot early in the game if you use that spell properly.
Actually, looks like even arrows can make full-sized snakes sometimes with just a level 3 or so in transmutation. The club does seem to be more reliable though.
Actually, looks like even arrows can make full-sized snakes sometimes with just a level 3 or so in transmutation. The club does seem to be more reliable though.
Zomg
Arbiter
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In the latest trunk build they took distillation and evaporate out of the transmuter starting book (to differentiate them from stalkers I guess), so good use of sticks to snakes will be more important. I have always thought of it as a good spell that you didn't ever actually need with evaporate being so powerful. Also makes spider form much more important as well.
I remember reading something saying you can actually get a freaking anaconda out of sticks to snakes + a giant club at max power (a level 2 spell making something about as dangerous as a stone giant)
I remember reading something saying you can actually get a freaking anaconda out of sticks to snakes + a giant club at max power (a level 2 spell making something about as dangerous as a stone giant)
MisterStone
Arcane
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Damn, playing a KoTr now, they really smoothed out the early game experience between classes so that it's easier for non melee types to make it down the first few levels. Also StS is pretty sweet for this class now, since it was switched to transmutation only.
Reptilian Shapeshifter
Educated
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2011
- Messages
- 385
Zomg said:
Elven Halls can be easily cleared with poisonous cloud and fast movement (swiftness).
Demonspawns with icemail can also cast freezing cloud on top of themselves with no damage or potion loss. Very effective late in the game.
Teepo
Scholar
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2011
- Messages
- 892
I really suck using stick2snakes, I almost never use it. I've been told to use it against ogres and hydras but am almost always choosing to save those spell levels for another spell. I do that with iceform too.
Anacondas are cool. I mean are snakes good for anything, other than the anaconda? Do you need to summon a lot of them?
They removed evap and distill from Transmuter in trunk?
I don't like that idea at all. What are the beginner spells?
My transmuters are always squishy though. I have trouble defending myself, but I figure we all do.
Anacondas are cool. I mean are snakes good for anything, other than the anaconda? Do you need to summon a lot of them?
They removed evap and distill from Transmuter in trunk?
I don't like that idea at all. What are the beginner spells?
My transmuters are always squishy though. I have trouble defending myself, but I figure we all do.
desocupado
Magister
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1,802
Teepo said:I really suck using stick2snakes, I almost never use it. I've been told to use it against ogres and hydras but am almost always choosing to save those spell levels for another spell. I do that with iceform too.
Anacondas are cool. I mean are snakes good for anything, other than the anaconda? Do you need to summon a lot of them?
They removed evap and distill from Transmuter in trunk?
I don't like that idea at all. What are the beginner spells?
My transmuters are always squishy though. I have trouble defending myself, but I figure we all do.
Distill and evap are very, very strong, to the point of making D:1-D:9 trivial. In fact, when I first started playing Transmuters, I found myself at a loss of what to do after D:9, since I didn't bother with the other spells. Didn't need them before that point, really, not because they're bad, no, Spider Form is all sorts of awesome, but distill/evap could take care of everything.
Ice form still sucks, tho.
Zomg
Arbiter
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- Oct 21, 2005
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- 6,984
They put a level 1 spell in for transmuters that gives you a temporary auxilliary attack (like hooves for a centaur or horns for a minotaur). There's really no reason for you to ever cast it again after DL:2 or so but it's cute.
For sticks to snakes: if you have decent transmutations you can make a pack of 2-4 snakes/small snakes at once from arrows (rarely including a water moccasin), a couple of castings of which can kill a centaur, ogre or orc priest. That's why the transmuter class starts with a handful of arrows. Or you can transmute a club or spear which makes a single snake of possibly higher quality - once you get transmutations up you can get water moccasins pretty often (which are capable of killing most of the pre-lair uniques 1 on 1 for example). The spell is completely capable of getting you anything that distill/evap can; it's just not as brainless, and you get the summon penalty for kills (50% less XP). A large number of snakes can also bring down undead like phantoms and problem zombies like killer bees and wyverns which go right through evaporate.
Also on the downside if you wield a cursed weapon and sticks-to-snakes you get a hostile snake, and if you pop out a hostile water moccasin on DL:2 you might be dead even if you read a scroll of teleport immediately. So I'd stick to arrows until you know you have remove curse. Also Okawaru normally has excellent synergy with transmuters due to heroism but getting dozens of small snakes killed to take out a unique or something will tank your piety.
And ice form is actually really damn good. The freeze slows cold blooded animals, you get poison resistance, an AC boost, an HP boost, water walking... it's just not good in the victory lap bullshit endgame. But if you are wearing normal early game garbage equipment it's extremely good.
For sticks to snakes: if you have decent transmutations you can make a pack of 2-4 snakes/small snakes at once from arrows (rarely including a water moccasin), a couple of castings of which can kill a centaur, ogre or orc priest. That's why the transmuter class starts with a handful of arrows. Or you can transmute a club or spear which makes a single snake of possibly higher quality - once you get transmutations up you can get water moccasins pretty often (which are capable of killing most of the pre-lair uniques 1 on 1 for example). The spell is completely capable of getting you anything that distill/evap can; it's just not as brainless, and you get the summon penalty for kills (50% less XP). A large number of snakes can also bring down undead like phantoms and problem zombies like killer bees and wyverns which go right through evaporate.
Also on the downside if you wield a cursed weapon and sticks-to-snakes you get a hostile snake, and if you pop out a hostile water moccasin on DL:2 you might be dead even if you read a scroll of teleport immediately. So I'd stick to arrows until you know you have remove curse. Also Okawaru normally has excellent synergy with transmuters due to heroism but getting dozens of small snakes killed to take out a unique or something will tank your piety.
And ice form is actually really damn good. The freeze slows cold blooded animals, you get poison resistance, an AC boost, an HP boost, water walking... it's just not good in the victory lap bullshit endgame. But if you are wearing normal early game garbage equipment it's extremely good.
desocupado
Magister
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- Nov 17, 2008
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I just think it's more of an utilitarian form, than an attack form. If you wanna use Ice Form for attacking, you might just go ahead and train a bit more for blade hands.
By the time I can cast Ice Form well, I already have an +2 leather armor/robe that some orc dropped, and some stuff like helmets, gloves, and hopefully some boots, and all that is melded, so in the end I end up with less AC than before.
The thing I don't have as a transmuter is a way to kill hydras, and that's what I searched in ice form, and found it lacking.
It's a spell I'll have memorized, because it sure has its uses, but I usually go spider form --> blade hands --> Ice form
By the time I can cast Ice Form well, I already have an +2 leather armor/robe that some orc dropped, and some stuff like helmets, gloves, and hopefully some boots, and all that is melded, so in the end I end up with less AC than before.
The thing I don't have as a transmuter is a way to kill hydras, and that's what I searched in ice form, and found it lacking.
It's a spell I'll have memorized, because it sure has its uses, but I usually go spider form --> blade hands --> Ice form
Zomg
Arbiter
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At a certain point ice form is good enough by itself for hydras obviously (usually when you are like at Lair:6 or so and have soaked up a lot of XP) but before that you supplement with god powers and this kinda stuff in lair is why I generally like luck-proof fast developing gods instead of gimmicky ones. Makhleb's greater destruction can kill or wound badly enough to finish with ice form in 2-3 shots once you have built invocations up to 10+ (or use demon summons, but you lose XP); an Okawaru transmuter can probably get by with heroism or maybe a might potion + ice form. Yred can pain mirror although that burns piety horrifically fast. Various other plausible transmuter gods can do other similar shit.
Zomg
Arbiter
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Dragon form is basically for huge damage output and a lot of HP but bad AC/EV. That's kind of useful in the hellfire/torment damage based endgame, the damage seems comparable to a normal melee fighter with a two-hander holy weapon. But then Lich form trivializes torment... anyway it wont be relevant for non-dracs going for 3-4 rune wins.
For draconians (who get it as a pure transmutations spell) it's not terrible but also not really a notable upgrade over blade hands most of the time. They should give it some guaranteed damage resistance altered by spell power or something, topping out at storm dragon armor equivalent.
Statue form + a lot of earth magic seems good particularly for characters missing equipment slots, but it's never guaranteed by a god or starting book or w/e so there's no way to plan on using it. If you picked an earth elementalist and find a book with statue on DL:3 by all means whore it out when it gets castable.
For draconians (who get it as a pure transmutations spell) it's not terrible but also not really a notable upgrade over blade hands most of the time. They should give it some guaranteed damage resistance altered by spell power or something, topping out at storm dragon armor equivalent.
Statue form + a lot of earth magic seems good particularly for characters missing equipment slots, but it's never guaranteed by a god or starting book or w/e so there's no way to plan on using it. If you picked an earth elementalist and find a book with statue on DL:3 by all means whore it out when it gets castable.
hoverdog
dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
I lost my Leslaw. Fucking Mellthas or what was his name came out of nowhere while i was blasting ugly things and silenced me to death. fucking angels fuck them bros
desocupado
Magister
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1,802
hoverdog said:
Oh, you just met one of the most dangerous uniques in the game, Mennas. I would describe him to you, but it seems you have a first hand account now.
Mennas is completely ridiculous, try him on the arena. His silence is longer than his line of sight... I never fought him (avoided like the plague) but on arena he defeated 3 ancient liches provided they didnt start spamming summons right away.
hoverdog
dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
been playing the new trunk for a while, and damn, scrolls of acquirement are sure aplenty now. I currently have two dazzling young adventurers - a lvl15 red draco wizard, cleared snake and swamp (without the vaults) and a lvl 10 MDFi of Chei. And I've found six those scrolls already (with one burnt and another converted into a large shield for the mage... the dwarf got fencer's gloves though).
MisterStone
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2006
- Messages
- 9,422
So bros I got this demonspawn transmuter who is aroud D9 right now, and I have found a few spellbooks that I might want to get into later.
One is the second tier fire spellbook which has the "Ignite Poison" and "Dragon Form" spells among other things. I think my character could learn the former pretty soon, and the latter one far down the road a bit.
The other useful book I have is a second-tier earth magic book, which has dig and statue form IIRC.
So is ignite poison a nice thing to have right now? I imagine it would be really nice to use in the hive and (much more importantly) the snake pit and/or lair. (I have yet to find either branch) What about dig?
Also need to choose a god; my char is sort of a combat hound right now, he has blade hands and good unarmed, plus rough black scales (+7 AC, -2 dex) and spines, but his physical stats kind of suck. Not sure if I should go with Sif Muna, Okawaru or something else like Nemex...
One other thing, I saw a INT +6 ring in a shop and I can just barely afford it now.. is this as awesome as I think it is? Is it worth blowing my nut on this one thing?
One is the second tier fire spellbook which has the "Ignite Poison" and "Dragon Form" spells among other things. I think my character could learn the former pretty soon, and the latter one far down the road a bit.
The other useful book I have is a second-tier earth magic book, which has dig and statue form IIRC.
So is ignite poison a nice thing to have right now? I imagine it would be really nice to use in the hive and (much more importantly) the snake pit and/or lair. (I have yet to find either branch) What about dig?
Also need to choose a god; my char is sort of a combat hound right now, he has blade hands and good unarmed, plus rough black scales (+7 AC, -2 dex) and spines, but his physical stats kind of suck. Not sure if I should go with Sif Muna, Okawaru or something else like Nemex...
One other thing, I saw a INT +6 ring in a shop and I can just barely afford it now.. is this as awesome as I think it is? Is it worth blowing my nut on this one thing?
Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.9.1 character file.
Spankr the Changer (Demonspawn Transmuter) Turns: 10762, Time: 01:03:00
HP 30/72 AC 9 Str 10 XL: 10 Next: 36%
MP 12/21 EV 13 Int 17 God:
Gold 1027 SH 0 Dex 13 Spells: 5 memorised, 8 levels left
Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : + - Unarmed
Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . . c - +0 robe
Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : . (no shield)
Res.Acid. : + . . Res.Corr. : + (no helmet)
Res.Poison: . Clarity : . (no cloak)
Res.Elec. : . Spirit.Shd : . (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: . . Stasis : . (no boots)
Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . j - amulet of resist corrosion
Res.Rott. : . Levitation : . t - ring of see invisible
Saprovore : . . . Ctrl.Flight: . q - ring of protection from magic
@: quite resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: demonic guardian 1, spiny 2, AC +7, Dex -2
a: no special abilities
You are on level 10 of the Dungeon.
You are very hungry.
You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 11 of its levels.
You have visited 1 portal chamber: bailey.
You have collected 1007 gold pieces.
Inventory:
Hand weapons
n - a blowgun
B - an orcish spear (quivered)
G - an orcish spear
S - an orcish spear
Missiles
b - 14 arrows
C - a javelin
H - 63 arrows
V - 18 runed arrows
Armour
c - a +0 robe (worn)
D - an uncursed cap
Magical devices
f - a wand of flame {zapped: 2}
x - a worn copper wand
E - a shiny iron wand
F - a wand of random effects
I - a wand of random effects (16)
J - a wand of flame
X - a brass wand
Comestibles
h - 4 meat rations
Scrolls
a - a scroll labeled IHUICU SHOOSIL {tried on wand of flame}
g - a scroll of amnesia
k - 3 scrolls of remove curse
m - 2 scrolls labeled TRAFOA ZIOCO {tried}
o - a scroll labeled HAOQ UCOXUOMM {tried}
p - 2 scrolls labeled HYNEOFREUVI {tried on large bronze amulet}
w - a scroll of teleportation
K - a scroll labeled FUETWO NOFAJIF
L - a scroll labeled STEKKIENOA
N - 2 scrolls labeled BREISORIWI {tried}
Jewellery
j - an amulet of resist corrosion (around neck)
q - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
r - an uncursed amulet of conservation
t - a ring of see invisible (right hand)
u - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
y - an uncursed ring of magical power
Potions
e - 11 potions of confusion
i - 3 potions of brilliance
l - 4 potions of healing
s - a potion of strong poison
v - 2 lumpy green potions
z - a potion of degeneration
M - 2 glowing yellow potions
W - a potion of restore abilities
Books
d - a book of Changes
Spells Type Level
*Fulsome Distillation Transmutation/Necromancy 1
*Sticks to Snakes Transmutation 2
*Evaporate Fire/Transmutation 2
*Spider Form Transmutation/Poison 3
Ice Form Ice/Transmutation 4
*Blade Hands Transmutation 5
A - a book of the Earth
Spells Type Level
Maxwell's Silver Hammer Charms/Earth 2
Dig Transmutation/Earth 4
Statue Form Transmutation/Earth 6
Iron Shot Conjuration/Earth 6
Leda's Liquefaction Transmutation/Earth 4
Shatter Earth 9
Skills:
+ Level 6 Fighting
- Level 1 Throwing
* Level 4 Dodging
- Level 1 Stealth
- Level 1 Stabbing
- Level 1 Traps & Doors
+ Level 7 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 6 Spellcasting
- Level 1 Necromancy
* Level 7 Transmutations
- Level 1 Fire Magic
- Level 1 Evocations
You have 8 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Power Success Level Hunger
a - Fulsome Distillation Trmt/Necr N/A Excellent 1 None
b - Sticks to Snakes Trmt #####..... Excellent 2 None
c - Evaporate Fire/Trmt ####...... Excellent 2 None
d - Spider Form Pois/Trmt ####...... Great 3 Choko
e - Blade Hands Trmt #####..... Good 5 Honeycomb
Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations
Branches:
Dungeon (10/27) Temple (1/1) D:4 Orc (0/4) D:6
Lair (0/8) D:9
Altars:
Ashenzari
Elyvilon
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Zin
Shops:
D:9: =
Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations
You are mostly covered in rough black scales (AC +7, Dex -2).
A weak demonic guardian rushes to your aid.
You are mostly covered in sharp spines.
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