Dungeon Lords is literally virtually absolutely the Wizardry 9 we didn't get.

[Sukhāvatī]

Ayy, game is quite a of fun oldschool janky fun. Got overconfident, forgot to save and lost quite a bit of progress

Cheers Kutulu

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Somewhat off topic. Are any patches for Wizards and Warriors? Have the GOG version and I was wondering if it's good to go as it is (probably not).

 

[Butter]

Somewhat off topic. Are any patches for Wizards and Warriors? Have the GOG version and I was wondering if it's good to go as it is (probably not).

I've been playing it on GOG and it works fine. There was apparently a bug at one point that caused enemies to constantly miss their attacks, but it's not present in the GOG version, which tells me they applied an unofficial patch at some point. Pretty sure they did similar for Bloodlines as well.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Somewhat off topic. Are any patches for Wizards and Warriors? Have the GOG version and I was wondering if it's good to go as it is (probably not).

I've been playing it on GOG and it works fine. There was apparently a bug at one point that caused enemies to constantly miss their attacks, but it's not present in the GOG version, which tells me they applied an unofficial patch at some point. Pretty sure they did similar for Bloodlines as well.

They do but I don't think they had anything for widescreen support, don't they. Well, that bit is minor, but general bugfixes are always welcome.

 

[Kabas]

I take it this is the right thread for this. This game was on my radar for quite some time.
Wanted to share some of my first impressions from trying the steam version:
-You get to choose some cool races here. Decided to roll with the lizardmen warrior guy, irresistable smile.
-Gameplay feels somewhat junky and simple but i don't mind it to be honest. It's not Dragon Age Inquisition tier terrible.
-Even the pure martial types appear to be relying heavily on magic. Runic magic was useful so far with all these self-buffs.
-You rise skills both by investing points into them and by using them. Acceptable compromise.
-Tooltip says that chainmail skill also increases my ability with cloth and leather armor. What was the point of giving me the cloth and leather armor skill then?
-Health regenerates instantly after each battle, longterm resource management doesn't appear to be a thing here. Too many health potions in my inventory.
-First dungeon was a mixed bag experience. There is some cool setpieces like falling into a hole inhabited by a giant caterpillar/worm thing or the abandoned theater fight against the goblin horde joined by an ogre.
-There is also way too many trapped chests containing worthless loot. It's Neverwinter nights 1 OC all over again.
-Speaking of chests, trap disarming mini-game overstayed it's welcome fast.
-Can't go around town without being molested by a horde of snakes. Enemy spawn mechanic is kinda annoying.
-Map could be a bit more informative concerning the placements of shops and guilds.
-NPCs talk a bit too much, caught myself skimming through their dialogue. Still somewhat fascinated with the plot about the wizard lords screwing each other and the runaway princess.
-NPCs are saying that nether magic relies on reagents, sounds interesting.
-Appreciate that these reagents in question go into a separate inventory. Your main inventory still ends up full of trash way too quickly tho.
-Accepted the quest to join the weeaboo guild. Not sure if i should join the fighter's guild considering the fact that i am already the fighter class. I assume that gaining an access to the class is the main benefit of joining a guild.
-Also unsure about what should be my next tier 1 class. I am guessing it should be the rogue considering how much i neglected my intelligence stat but their speciall skills seem to be somewhat overlapping with what the samurai will give me.
-That oracle's house fight was another rather fun setpiece.

Overall, the game ended being better than what i expected judging by the people's opinions here. Will see how long the fun lasts.

 

[Kabas]

-I am tired of those goddamn bandits in those goddamn slums. Too many of them.
-That vampire fight took a lot of motherfucking time. Loot was okay, got the necklace that allows me to summon bats.
-Running around forest feels nice, could use a horse or something.
-Actually caught myself paying attention to the road signs thanks to the lack of names on the map
-And you can run into an occasional trapped chest with some actually nice loot. If only the dungeons themselves followed the same policy concerning the rarity of trapped chests.
-Decided to go with the Adept as my secondary class, my head thought that the image of lizard jesus was the funniest shit ever. Quest was simple enough.
-That magical weapon skill sounds useful if i understood the tooltip correctly. I also wonder if the holy blade stacks with my magic weapon buff.
-I can also now summon the ghost girlfriend that heals me, cool.
-Enemies that breath poison gas on me or the ones that stun me are the bane of my existence. Didn't took too deep of a glance but i hope that the celestial magic features some protection against this.
-Wondering if choosing an Adept instead of a Mage was a mistake. Game loves throwing crowds against me and i can't help but think that i could use some extra firepower. That "magic rules the world" mage guild dude probably had a point.
-I underestimated the level of junk in this game. It's the "fight against the miniboss that stunlocks you inside a small tower while your camera is having an aneurysm" level of junk.
-Of course there is a trapped chest at the bottom of the lake. Found my first katana in it.

Very junky game but i still want to continue playing for now. There is something very appealing to me at the base instinctual level.
Current goal is to become a samurai by doing the dragon's house quests.
Edit: Also wish the game itself told what is a paladin and what can it do before i complete a promotion quest. Why do i need to check the wiki for this information?
Edit 2: Even if i get bored of this game i am curious enough to try the original version, you guys keep telling that it had a better skill system.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

Great game! I loved the first version. Played many times.
After that they somehow streamlined it.

 

[Kabas]

After that they somehow streamlined it.

Will definitely give the first version a proper try even if i get bored of this one.
The "light-medium-heavy" weapon progression and classes having an actual stat/skill requirements sounds interesting.

 

[Kabas]

-Elven taverns look comfy but i got the impression that the elves themselves don't like other races much. Room costed 150 gold at first but the inkeeper immediately backpedaled by saying it's actually 350 'cause extra expenses like maid work. At least the tea is free
-Elves appears to be very big on honour. Their plot involves a certain clan being dishonoured, it's leader commiting harrakiri and you trying to bring the enemy clan to justice. Kinda dig that the honour itself is an actual stat here.
-The Ancient elven trials were an absolute bullshit.
-First trial involved a platforming section while being shot by a lvl80 ghost. The key to beating it was doing things fast enough before the archer ghost decides to slighly change position and block your path. Bat summoning necklace came in handy, with it i managed to trick the ghost to fall once.
-The last trial involved an endurance fight against infinitely respawning ghosts while being shot by a lvl80 wizard ghost. Elven knights, archers and swordmaster were easy enough but those fireballs hurt like hell. Going adept proved to be not a mistake, my own ghost lady was very useful.
-The Elven lord was very surprised that i am still alive, no wonder. In turn i am surprised he is still a leader of their council or smth.

Elven lord: According to our customs the stranger speaks the truth. What say you in your defence.
Shady Fathien guy: I demand proof! Let him visit our castle alone in order to find one.
Elven lord: Sounds reasonable

-I will give it to the Fathiens, they hidden the stolen relic really well.
-Found my first weapon that is classified as "magical", a frost dagger. I am scared to know what other magical weapons are in this game because this little dagger doesn't just deal frost damage, it actually freezes my enemies for a few seconds with each hit.
-I am using scrolls a lot. Summons are exceptionally useful as they take the attention of those annoying gas breathing enemies while i am free to pummel them.
-Also found the fireball spell to be useful. There is section in a castle crypt in which fireballs saved me from a lot of headaches.
-Honestly glad that this game is not turn-based. Fighting this amount of enemies would have been a massive chore otherwise.
-My search for proof resulted in the Ulm castle being completely depopulated. No more elves live here.
-Stole the egg from the relatively high level dragons for the Dragon's house quest. Apparently you don't need to go back to Fargrove in order to turn it in, the local tiger's house appears to be just a different branch of the same guild.
-Finally got the Samurai promotion quest. Now i wish i could find the moonstone that is needed for those fast travel gates.

 

[Grauken]

Dungeon Lord is to Wizardry what Ultima 9 was to Ultima, solid take

 

[Kabas]

Why the Air bubble spell doesn't protect me from posion breath? Just why?!

 

[Baron Dupek]

After dozen of patches and re-releases they still have something broken and bugged?
whata shock

 

[Kabas]

Yeah, exhausted all the fun i could from this game for now. Part of it is all the walking you're forced to do inbetween dungeons despite wilderness itself being one of the better looking areas.
Another is the build i ended up choosing. Celestial class doesn't add anything interesting to the Samurai.
Energy regen? Never had mana problems and i am a dumb lizard who dumped Int.
A chance to avoid wasting scrolls? I am trying to rid myself of them as they're clogging my inventory.
Celestial magic also proved to be far from ideal. Healing isn't terribly useful as the game drowns you in HP potions and all of the utility spells i tried so far aren't that impressive. I hoped that the air bubble would allow me to melee those gas farting enemies but alas.
Also simply got bored. My dual-wielding Samurai is already at the point in which he can easily cut enemies above his weight in melee provided they're not gas breathers or big enough to knock me up repeatedly. Did not even complete the Warlord promotion quest yet and i already feeling like i don't need to buff myself with rune magic that often.
Speaking of Rune Magic, it's also kinda boring. Still awhile until i get something more interesting than another self-buff according to my spellbook.
It appears that Arcane and Nether got all the fun spells judging by those scrolls i managed to grab.

About dungeons themselves, they're indeed the highlight of the game. The abundance of trapped chests that rarely provide any good loot combined with that annoying trap disarming mini-game kinda ruins them tho. They could use more handplaced loot like that ghost bow you can pickup at the end of the elven trial.

Overall, i don't think myself capable of adding anything new that wasn't already said in this very thread. Dungeon Lords plays like a long lost early beta of the possibly amazing game that was canceled mid development. So many coold things and ideas buried beneath junk.
The last thing i wanted to mention was the plot. Just look at this intro.

There is something about it, i dunno how to better describe it, sincere? I liked it in the "can barely follow this shit at all but i am very interested" kind of way.
Still going to try the pre-steam version at some point. As a pure Sorcerer or Ninja.

 

[GaelicVigil]

After that they somehow streamlined it.

Will definitely give the first version a proper try even if i get bored of this one.
The "light-medium-heavy" weapon progression and classes having an actual stat/skill requirements sounds interesting.

You don't want the first version, you want the Collectors Edition. This has lots of bug fixes from the original. It also still retains the original skill & magic system which was very different from Steam. CE is much harder as well.

I love both versions of the game honestly. Dungeons and character progression are well done imo. It can also be played in coop with friends....though the CE multiplayer works better than the Steam version for some reason. Use Radmin.

 

[Nikanuur]

The Steam version plays more fluidly, has better graphics and animations--especially combat animations--has some UI improvements, probably many bug patchings... all good. However, they reworked the leveling-up in a way that restricts stuff previously possible. Before you could basically level up whatever you wanted, and later on speciallize. Now, you kinda have to choose the classes from the beginning, with strange, non-fitting restrictions sometimes. In this particular game it doesn't feel quite right compared to the possibilities of the OG builds.

 

[GaelicVigil]

The Steam version plays more fluidly, has better graphics and animations--especially combat animations--has some UI improvements, probably many bug patchings... all good. However, they reworked the leveling-up in a way that restricts stuff previously possible. Before you could basically level up whatever you wanted, and later on speciallize. Now, you kinda have to choose the classes from the beginning, with strange, non-fitting restrictions sometimes. In this particular game it doesn't feel quite right compared to the possibilities of the OG builds.

I do prefer the Collectors Edition the most. I think it was the game closest Bradley's vision...and I think the mechanics are really special there. So I would definitely tell a first time player to begin with the CE.

However...the Steam version is still fun and it has grown on me. It's a much more laid back experience and actually begins to be very easy as you get into it. I do like the random loop drops a la Diablo in the Steam version. Always fun to stumble on a neat piece of equipment.

 

[Be Kind Rewind]

D.W. Bradley is one of the most underrated designers within the game industry. If you're not a retarded mutt or a nigger and are old enough you might know him from Heart of the Maelstrom, Bane of the Cosmic Forge or Crusaders of the Dark Savant. For that alone he should be considered a legend, but his work after he left Sir-Tech is almost always overlooked. The guy had a knack for making old school dungeon crawls but he switched gears briefly and ended up over at Origin where he made CyberMage: Darklight Awakening, the most underrated cyberpunk game of all time. Despite being a shooter released in 1995, during the aftershock of Doom and its sequel hitting the market, it stands out among the quickly put together doom clones. It's much more complex and advanced than most other games in the genre were at the time, and looking into the future CDProjekt Red's ripoff is a pale shadow of the original.

The game didn't make a huge mark on the genre, probably due to how oversaturated the market was at the time with everyone else copying Doom. At a glance it looked like just another copycat. CyberMage actually had drivable tanks and other vehicles, friendly NPCs, and featured open very explorable environments, and powers you could use beyond your guns, making it a progenitor to Deus Ex in many ways, not just in doing the same thing first but also since Warren Spector produced both games and probably learnt a thing or two from Bradley while working on CyberMage. That was a year after Doom 2 was released, which is fairly impressive.

Ad for the game

Being a creative genius Bradley probably had felt restricted working on CyberMage for Origin, if he had free reign he might have turned the game into a proper RPG. So he went ahead and founded Heuristic Park afterwards. It took them until the next millennium to ship a game, but Wizards & Warriors was the inheritor of the Wizardry throne when it came out until Cleve released Grimoire in 2017 and superseeded it. W&W was the swansong of the blobber genre that went mostly ignored by the mainstream press and gamers. Without spending several decades developing a magnum opus like Cleve did you could tell D.W. Bradley put his soul into it. Every system was improved, the user experience was put first without diminishing the depth of the game at all. For anyone that is actually into the genre it was a huge release. A year later the stupid cow Brenda Brathwaite would manage to turn a fucking Wizardry sequel into a boring slog.

The game sold well enough for Heuristic Park to make another game, but not enough to justify a sequel. The time of computer games being for highly educated White men, or their sons, were over and walking sims like Morrowind, or German life sims like Gothic were coming out as they had started to put their next game together. A far cry from the ogre sex sims and gay niggers in space games that pass for RPGs these days, but the tide was turning and Bradley could probably sense it. There was no place for turn-based combat or fully player made and controllable parties in the brave new world that was being cooked up, not without explicit bestiality anyway and not in the near future.

If the future of RPGs were action games where you played as a single character clicking on enemies to attack and that controlled something like Tomb Raider without the platforming he was going to make the best possible version of that imaginable. So he did. Dungeon Lords is the peak of the ARPG. You get the same old dungeon designs as in old RPGs, an innovative game system that makes classes very distinct from one another to play. Specialty classes for further differences. Combat that shitty games like Dark Souls could only dream of that makes your character build vital and won't let you carry shit tier builds on player skill. A massive sprawling game world with an emphasis on discovery, no shitty map markers, no bullshit. Multiplayer done right on top of all that.

Essentially D. W. Bradley had taken everything he had learned while making blobbers and applied it to a hack and slash ARPG. One of the reasons it didn't outsell Oblivion, which would come out a year later, is that they ran out of budget while making it and had to let an early access version go gold. As was the style at the time they then took a year to patch it up and release it as intended originally and this was the "Collector's Edition". Problem was that this hit the market the same year Todd unleashed his poorly put together Ultima clone, which I'm sure Codexers these days think of as very prestigious and a kodex konfirmed klassic. Gothic 3 also came and flopped that very year.

With the benefit of hindsight Dungeon Lords is a monument to what made RPGs great, a big question of what action RPGs might have been if the market weren't increasingly made up of clueless retards that were increasingly getting consoles and access to the internet, the iPhone came out a year after Oblivion, Twitter was stared the same year Dungeon Lords was shipped. Games from this point onward, but especially RPGs, would be made for increasingly retarded people, and the virgin perverts like Ed Greenwood who had started to occupy the genre with Baldur's Gate, the Christian pushback on D&D degeneracy fading when Bioware got their hands on it. Bioware introducing the concept of "romances" in BG2 wasn't a coincidence. The person who played these games to venture into dungeons, kill monsters and loot treasure hoards and had little time over for sick fucks and faggots would increasingly be a shrinking percentage of the audience.

Despite how little press coverage the game got and the meager advertising campaign the publishers afforded the game they are still ripping it Bradley off. The Japanese being fans of Wizardry were still paying attention to a legendary designer name like D.W. Bradley so it's likely that Hidetaka Miyazaki took a look at the shitty King's Field franchise (which was already a bad action oriented Wizardry ripoff) after playing Dungeon Lords and figured out what made it so shit and course corrected. A third person mode, a more proper game world to explore, the design philosophies of traditional dungeons, multiplayer, how the action works. Demon's Souls is just the Japs trying to copy the same master of RPG game design again and failing miserably in making good games but making bank on it, luring in gullible gajin into thinking their game is some thousand times folded steel Jap origami craft and not just repackaged Dungeon Lords for special needs people. Every time I hear someone gush over FromSoft I want to punch them in the face.

Some Codexers knew about how good Dungeon Lords were, there was an LP by prestigious RPG player theverybigslayer on this site, now broken due to image host issues. Later on THQ Nordic would get their filthy shovelware paws on the game and churned out a shitty version that dumbed down the magic system and fucked over the game in a number of other ways, turning gold into shit. Such as making dying not no longer making you lose experience points, removing penalties for heavy armor and so on. The Collector's Edition is the way to play the game, the physical copy comes with a nice manual and a map.

 

[Be Kind Rewind]

Soul

Soulless

 

[Nikanuur]

Be Kind Rewind

Dude, I don't get you. You mark my texts about the Steam (THQ) version being inferior to OG / Collector's Edition as no and decline, and then you go on about saying how Steam version is dumbed down and Collector's Edition is great.
I don't get this. I am on your side.

 

[Ladonna]

I bought the original version when it first came out. It was a buggy, unfinished piece of shit, even with the patches 1.3 and 1.4.

Then they ended up bringing out the Collectors edition and said "no" to porting the patches over to people that bought the original game. Pay again or fuck off. Very Derek Smart of Bradley.

Wizards and Warriors; they dropped the thing not long after release, refusing to put out a patch, so I had to keep reverting back to DX7 from 8 (which everything else starting using at the time) whenever I wanted to play W&W. Plenty of game stopping bugs left in that game too.

 

[Nikanuur]

I bought the original version when it first came out. It was a buggy, unfinished piece of shit, even with the patches 1.3 and 1.4.

Then they ended up bringing out the Collectors edition and said "no" to porting the patches over to people that bought the original game. Pay again or fuck off. Very Derek Smart of Bradley.

Wizards and Warriors; they dropped the thing not long after release, refusing to put out a patch, so I had to keep reverting back to DX7 from 8 (which everything else starting using at the time) whenever I wanted to play W&W. Plenty of game stopping bugs left in that game too.

Hah! I feel you. I remember messing with the many settings of the Dxwnd program to be able to play W'n'W, and then botching everything else using DirectX until I've remembered the correct order of ticked and unticked checkboxes.
Those were the times...

 

[Be Kind Rewind]

Dude, I don't get you. You mark my texts about the Steam (THQ) version being inferior to OG / Collector's Edition as no and decline, and then you go on about saying how Steam version is dumbed down and Collector's Edition is great.
I don't get this. I am on your side.

The Steam version is decline. You wrote about the decline, I rated it decline, not your post. The Steam version has no redeeming features, it does nothing better, that's why I rated the other post no.

 

[luj1]

W&W is the Wiz 9 we didnt got, not Dungeon Lords

Dungeon Lords is one if the biggest trashes I have ever played (and that was back in the day)

 

[Be Kind Rewind]

I've been replaying this between other games for a while now and one of the big questions on my mind have been why it got the reception it did while the Japanese version (Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Sekiro, Elden Ring) turned into an RPG blockbuster rivalling Blizzard, Bethesda and Ubisoft releases.

Dungeon Lords doesn't mess around or waste the player's time, you're sent into a dungeon to get into the first city straight away and there's a huge Troll boss at the end of it that hits so hard it will likely destroy your shield if you have one and your armor, acting like a filter. The Souls games do this too, but instead of letting you very likely lose and having to lose stat points to get resurrected the Souls games ease you into it and are much more forgiving, letting you get back your souls easily. If you didn't build a good enough character or are playing with a party of friends you're either going to have to start over or give up in Dungeon Lords if the Troll annihilates your ass, the Assylum demon in comparison engages in some extreme facesitting but the player is let off the hook after dying to it.

In so many ways it is a missing link between the action RPGs that would blow up to the point more people are excited about Dragon's Dogma 2 than a real RPG like Mystic Land: Search for Maphaldo, and the old school Wizardry 7 experience. The game not falling over itself to accommodate bad players but it is adapted for an audience that don't have the patience to map out a dungeon on paper or let an entire party act out their turns. So let's investigate a couple of points that I've noticed that are both similar and makes this hidden gem and Miss RPG of Japan differ.

1. The Builds

D. W. Bradley always nailed this part in every single game his creative genius touched. There's 33 classes in Dungeon Lords and you can match and mix five of them. I don't know how it worked in the real-time first person FromSoft games, but their Souls formula is basically a much inferior version of this. Picking from four starting classes and nine races (women variants of humans and elves count as their own race) will heavily determine how much it is going to cost going forward to invest in stats and skills, and as this is a combat focused game and you get both experience points towards the next level and points you are free to allocate to stats and skills however you wish you'll be continuously building your character and feeling the weight of your initial choices.

The Steam version fucked this up completely. But so did the Japanese, since you can pretty much transform your character into anything and the starting "class" is more of a couple of pre-spent points and equipment than a real class with unique skills and such in the Souls games. I guess being forgiving when it comes to making your character helps driving the mainstream appeal of the Souls games but the fun you can have with character builds in Dungeon Lords is one of the main attractions of the game. Because you lose any stray points you have earned you're also given the choice if you want to gamble with your points and save up for a higher cost stat or skill, or if you want to invest them so you won't lose them if you die with a resurrection aid available (avoids stat loss, but you permanently lose the points you had to spare). The Souls games have the casual version of this, with making you pick between going back to a safe area and spend points or brave dangers, and if you fail you can just come back for those lost souls.

What is even more impressive is that each class you take beyond your starting one have an associated quest with it, making you earn it before you get access to new skills and learning bonuses.

2. The Rolling

Investing a couple of points into athletics and you unlock the dodgeroll as well as light sidesteps in Dungeon Lords, depending on the enemy and how well you built your character this could be the difference between surviving an encounter and not. The slower and more dangerous enemies telegraph their attacks and there's a real rhythm to the gameplay. The game was released around the same time as Oblivion and Gothic 3, both games with shit combat. Oblivion also had dodgerolls that would unlock at higher levels of acrobatics but they were more or less useless since enemies would autotarget the player and generally have quick unavoidable attacks.

The Souls games would get famous for this, despite not being the first to implement it like that, even in an ARPG. Because of analogue controls on console though the presentation would be much smoother.

3. Lack of simulation and focus on core gameplay

Dungeon Lords is very gamey in that old school sense of the word, the focus is on the combat. On the overworld you often run into the 3D action RPG adaption of ambushes, with different regional encounters of varying composition. The dungeons are filled with clever traps, puzzles, though bosses and just old fashioned dungeon designs that are fun to explore and hack and slash through. This meant that while other studios were making 3D clones of Ultima and focused on making NPCs have fully simulated lives, going to work, getting to bed, and all that crap D. W. Bradley was focusing on the real meat of RPGs, cramming in as many and as varied enemies as he could with the budget he had. This meant that at the time when people were comparing it to the surrounding RPGs the town hubs and the overworld seemed barren, even compared to a much older titles like Baldur's Gate which was jampacked with cringe when you arrived in a city. Whereas in Dungeon Lords they're just a place to shop and get quests to dive into dungeons.

At the time many people were very vocally critical of that part of the game, but when the Souls games came around and did the same thing, having a handful of NPCs that you didn't interact with that much, someone selling you scrolls and magic items and a smith, they were hailed as the saviors of the genre.

The genius of the Japanese was to both put the games in a sort of fantasy post-apocalypse and then have the NPCs spout a bunch of vague badly translated nonsense instead of telling you about what is happening straight. Nobody would think to complain about a gameworld devoid of life sim stuff and not overly populated with NPCs if put in the right setting. Dungeon Lords meanwhile was a more traditional affair with magical artefacts and scheming wizards set in a Bradley patented world of human and elves with scalie and furry minorities being relegated to the forbidden lands. What would have been passable in a grid based blobber must have clicked wrong for many people used to Ultima clones.

4. Difficulty

The second best thing about Dungeon Lords, the best being the builds, the third best being the dungeon design, is how perfect the difficulty curve is. Although the first version of the game had to be put out before it was done due to financial difficulties and publishers wanting the game out, to some even the finished Collector's Edition of the game must have seen broken, but it was really just made for gamers and not gaming journalists. At several points in the game it will feel as if you have broken it utterly, that you have gone too OP and the game will be a cakewalk from now on. Except it isn't and the game keeps up with a player that has put some thought into his build. Towards the end of the game you get a lot of powerful skills, abilities, spells from four different schools and systems if you play your cards right, and even with all that the game still keeps throwing you curveballs.

There are few other games that lets you place a protection from fire spell on yourself, and then a levitate spell to safely float over a volcanic lava hell in a dungeon, but Dungeon Lords does. You might think the game is basically over when you get one of the nova spells except it isn't and some enemies will still hand your ass to you.

The Souls games comparatively never reach the same peaks but probably feel like a more even experience. You're either doing it right and don't need to think too hard, or you're underlevelled and should wait, or you are one of those autists that like to punch the boss to death at lvl 1 in your underwear. Dungeon Lords feels more like a broken player coming up against a broken game and it's magical.

5. Multiplayer

There's not much to say on this front, all games are obviously even more fun with friends and Dungeon Lords allows you to play LAN and have large parties going. Demon's Souls multiplayer shut down some time ago and unavailable and the series always focused more on seamless drop-in stuff rather than playing the games together properly in co-op. Lower investment in online games is a plus for Souls accessibility.

Conclusion

If Dungeon Lords had leaned into the limitations of putting Wizardry era design principles into an action game, having the setting work for it, or appealed to console kids, it might have been a multi-game world top seller success by now. Or maybe people will just eat up anything the Japanese do due to their reputation and badly translated cliches are more attractive than a classic fantasy game story told straight.

 

[Be Kind Rewind]

W&W is the Wiz 9 we didnt got, not Dungeon Lords

Wizards & Warriors is the Wizardry 8 that we didn't get, although Cleve has supplanted it with Grimoire.

Dungeon Lords is one if the biggest trashes I have ever played (and that was back in the day)

What makes you say that? It's pretty much a traditional RPG in an APRG format, possibly the best ARPG ever made. This is the sort of complaint people would level at it back in the day, beyond things like the release version being buggy (Collector's Edition fixed 99% of issues) or that the cities weren't like in Baldur's Gate, Oblivion or Fallout (this was never a goal, the game is combat first and you don't get harassed by homosexual bears or space niggers):

I like how they put more effort into modeling your characters ass and boobs than her face.