Dwarf Fortress

[Destroid]

Shame how retarded the dwarfs are when it comes to combat. My fort would survive if the archers would just stand in the archery towers and shoot. Instead they are deciding to throw themselves into the moat from the wall going hand to hand against zombies. It's so fucking frustrating, since the rest of the game is fun. It's not that combat isn't fun, it's just that... to be able to survive in the fort I have to use my men sparingly since hoards of undead keep attacking but with the AI being sucidal...

Stuff like this that turns a great game to a chore.

How are you building your towers? If you box them in with the block you can shoot through it shouldn't be a problem. Also make sure they have plenty of ammo.

 

[flabbyjack]

Shame how retarded the dwarfs are when it comes to combat. My fort would survive if the archers would just stand in the archery towers and shoot. Instead they are deciding to throw themselves into the moat from the wall going hand to hand against zombies. It's so fucking frustrating, since the rest of the game is fun. It's not that combat isn't fun, it's just that... to be able to survive in the fort I have to use my men sparingly since hoards of undead keep attacking but with the AI being sucidal...

Stuff like this that turns a great game to a chore.

Wouldn't work, arrows suck against undead. If you are using the 'station' command, try making the towers larger, or turning it into a guard room.

 

[upwardlymobile]

between the problems with getting them to actually pick up bolts and preventing them for banzai charging into melee and training them and bolts getting nerfed anyway the proper workaround is just to not use marksdwarfs at all right now.

 

[Machocruz]

Archery tower should be fully enclosed with block walls and fortifications to shoot through. The problem still remains that sometimes they won't shoot or they'll stand around when their quivers are empty, but at least they can't throw themselves at the enemy.

 

[Perkel]

For mentioned ammo problems. Keep dorfs amunition only one type in squad options. If you use different ammo for training and different for combat they usually will not pick up any ammo.

Shame how retarded the dwarfs are when it comes to combat. My fort would survive if the archers would just stand in the archery towers and shoot. Instead they are deciding to throw themselves into the moat from the wall going hand to hand against zombies. It's so fucking frustrating, since the rest of the game is fun. It's not that combat isn't fun, it's just that... to be able to survive in the fort I have to use my men sparingly since hoards of undead keep attacking but with the AI being sucidal...

Stuff like this that turns a great game to a chore.

You didn't secure you tower. Dorfs like to dodge so they can literally do a dodge and jump out of your tower.

As for undead siege. No one said game is fair. If you choose evil biome you really need to work fast and secure your place. Same thing with Tower near you.

I remember one time where i had those problems. I just had like 10 dorfs in military. All of them got hammers and in time of siege my metalsmith fucking created lead warhammer. Gave it to best maceman and soon undead flied across screen.

 

[Alienman]

Thanks for the tips. I will have to wall in my towers properly then.

And I don't think care that the game is unfair Perkel, I just got a little frustrated. It just seems ranged combat is a bit odd all together. Even on ground they have a tendency to close in on their target, so close that they stand right next to the target.. still shooting though according to the combat log.

I really hope the AI for ranged gets improved, because I really like the whole aspect of sitting in a tower and mowing down invaders.

 

[Konjad]

I really hope the AI for ranged gets improved, because I really like the whole aspect of sitting in a tower and mowing down invaders.

Yeah, right after we see proper flower simulation, with blossoming and every petal with its own physics and lifespan, and after every drop of rain will be an individual object, mixing with other substances along the way when it falls down and bouncing and splitting in many directions when hitting an object, creating many more smaller and just as well detailed rain drops.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Okay thanks for info. I have reached lava, but the mother fuckers refuse to do any digging. Keep getting interrupted by "this stone is hot"

Who thought that warning system was good?

Probably someone who mined horizontally into a vein of lava and incinerated his entire fort.

 

[upwardlymobile]

Yeah, right after we see proper flower simulation, with blossoming and every petal with its own physics and lifespan, and after every drop of rain will be an individual object, mixing with other substances along the way when it falls down and bouncing and splitting in many directions when hitting an object, creating many more smaller and just as well detailed rain drops.

procedurally generated snowflakes

 

[Alienman]

Yeah, right after we see proper flower simulation, with blossoming and every petal with its own physics and lifespan, and after every drop of rain will be an individual object, mixing with other substances along the way when it falls down and bouncing and splitting in many directions when hitting an object, creating many more smaller and just as well detailed rain drops.

I'm guessing combat isn't a priority

 

[Perkel]

Also not all people know that in LAzy newb pack you can switch on invaders digging holes which changes dramatically for fort defense.

Yeah, right after we see proper flower simulation, with blossoming and every petal with its own physics and lifespan, and after every drop of rain will be an individual object, mixing with other substances along the way when it falls down and bouncing and splitting in many directions when hitting an object, creating many more smaller and just as well detailed rain drops.

Funny you say that because that is already in game. Vegetation seasons (growth, flowering etc) were added in DF2014 aka 0.4x.
Each type of vegetation has different times where it creates flowers or fruit/vegetable. You can sometimes see how green fields can suddenly one day become all red due to one type of grass flowering at same time.
You can see it best way on tress. Especially in fall when all fruits fall down and ground is in multiple colours from apples, nuts etc.

Also DF has full fluid simulation. Yes this means all fluids in game follows same one system so you can for example dig a hole and wait for huge rain to fill it up with water.

You can see it perfectly when you kill someone in river. You can see how river mixes with blood and follows down the stream. If by any chance that mixed water with blood of for example warecreature will be drunk by one of your dorfs it will spread warecreature disease.

How about blood pool ? I didn't test that yet..

 

[jcd]

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[Luka-boy]

Also DF has full fluid simulation. Yes this means all fluids in game follows same one system so you can for example dig a hole and wait for huge rain to fill it up with water.

You can see it perfectly when you kill someone in river. You can see how river mixes with blood and follows down the stream. If by any chance that mixed water with blood of for example warecreature will be drunk by one of your dorfs it will spread warecreature disease.

How about blood pool ? I didn't test that yet..

So if I build slopes right next to my indoors wall I might be able to fill my currently dry moat with the blood of my enemies?

 

[Perkel]

No you can't. Only murky pools do that.

I also thought that way.

Few months ago i decided to play exclusively in tundra biome. Low temperature and a lot of rain (when it doesn't freeze).

I landed in tundra biome but source of river lied in Taiga which basically meant that my rived after a while (its destination was waterfal) was empty from water since taiga is always frozen like glacier. Taiga wasn't one big solid block of biome but something like patchwork. I decided to channel around those patches of taiga but ultimately my rived was empty. Tried to fiddle with pumps a bit but i leaved that project for few next years if ever.

To the point. In my 6 year after winter (which for me is most of the year) it was raining like every year. I was doing some stuff and then i noticed that my river had patches of water. I check source of river. Nope still frozen like always. Only rain. After literally like 1,5 month of rain non stop my river was filled up to 3/7 along with tiles that i dug up near it and channels. After rain stopped river was again empty (as most of it gone to waterfall)

What is more important channels in taiga patches also filled up with ice and filled channels. Which basically means that rain cause 1/7 water and that froze up.

I think murky pools simply have some boost instead of being hardcoded.

So if I build slopes right next to my indoors wall I might be able to fill my currently dry moat with the blood of my enemies?

never tested it but i think grates over killbox with 1 z level beneath would answer that question. All fluids would end up 1z beneath and bodies would stay above.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Also not all people know that in LAzy newb pack you can switch on invaders digging holes which changes dramatically for fort defense.

Yeah, right after we see proper flower simulation, with blossoming and every petal with its own physics and lifespan, and after every drop of rain will be an individual object, mixing with other substances along the way when it falls down and bouncing and splitting in many directions when hitting an object, creating many more smaller and just as well detailed rain drops.

Funny you say that because that is already in game. Vegetation seasons (growth, flowering etc) were added in DF2014 aka 0.4x.
Each type of vegetation has different times where it creates flowers or fruit/vegetable. You can sometimes see how green fields can suddenly one day become all red due to one type of grass flowering at same time.
You can see it best way on tress. Especially in fall when all fruits fall down and ground is in multiple colours from apples, nuts etc.

Also DF has full fluid simulation. Yes this means all fluids in game follows same one system so you can for example dig a hole and wait for huge rain to fill it up with water.

You can see it perfectly when you kill someone in river. You can see how river mixes with blood and follows down the stream. If by any chance that mixed water with blood of for example warecreature will be drunk by one of your dorfs it will spread warecreature disease.

How about blood pool ? I didn't test that yet..

If anyone ever needed to know "Does this game cater to my Asperger's Syndrome?", then the above post should have you covered.

 

[Konjad]

Also not all people know that in LAzy newb pack you can switch on invaders digging holes which changes dramatically for fort defense.




Funny you say that because that is already in game. Vegetation seasons (growth, flowering etc) were added in DF2014 aka 0.4x.
Each type of vegetation has different times where it creates flowers or fruit/vegetable. You can sometimes see how green fields can suddenly one day become all red due to one type of grass flowering at same time.
You can see it best way on tress. Especially in fall when all fruits fall down and ground is in multiple colours from apples, nuts etc.

Also DF has full fluid simulation. Yes this means all fluids in game follows same one system so you can for example dig a hole and wait for huge rain to fill it up with water.

You can see it perfectly when you kill someone in river. You can see how river mixes with blood and follows down the stream. If by any chance that mixed water with blood of for example warecreature will be drunk by one of your dorfs it will spread warecreature disease.

How about blood pool ? I didn't test that yet..

This was my point. Toady focuses on a lot of stuff but totally ignores the most basic gameplay mechanics. I like that he works on these things, but they should be worked on AFTER he finishes basics, not before that. What does it matter if every atom in the universe is properly simulated if the gameplay is broken? DF was supposed to be a game where you do stuff, not a world generator where you just watch it developing.

 

[jcd]

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[jcd]

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[PorkyThePaladin]

New release: DF 42.01 http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

List of Changes:

"New stuff

• Ability to designate taverns, temples and libraries in the fortress
• Taverns and libraries also exist in adventure mode and world generation
• Tavern keepers can serve drinks in both modes, goblets can be used by dwarves to drink (in taverns or otherwise)
• Performances include stories, poetry, music and dance (you can view activity descriptions from the unit/job list)
• Art forms are randomly generated for each civilization
• Instruments are now all generated, instruments can be used in both modes
• Most instruments are constructed from multiple pieces using different materials
• Personalities and values lead to needs which can be met by various actions in both modes
• The fort has visitors, residency petitions and eventual citizenship, including non-dwarves
• Tavern visitors include mercenaries, monster slayers, bandits, diplomats and performers
• Can set details for clothing/armor jobs to make them for other races that can equip items
• Monster slayers can petition your fortress to go down and fight monsters once you discover the underground
• Performance troupes are active in world generation and into play, visiting the fort, can be formed in adventure mode
• New knowledge system divided into nine branches (though it has very few practical effects so far)
• Fortress scholars can advance knowledge, form master-apprentice relationships and write down their findings
• Fortress scribes can copy works in your library
• Scholars can visit your fortress libraries, bringing knowledge from around the world
• Devoted historical figures can visit your fortress temples
• Three forms of writing material: papyrus sheets, paper sheets and parchment sheets
• Papyrus sheets are made directly from the plant at the farmer's workshop
• Paper is made from pressed slurries (start at the quern/mill, then go to a screw press)
• Parchment is made from hide and milk of lime at the tanner's (bake quicklime at a kiln, then make milk of lime at an ashery)
• Sheets are used to make quires or with rollers to make scrolls -- these are then used for writing
• Quires can be bound into codices with bindings after they contain writing
• Dwarves read books in the library (they don't need to be scholars)
• Values can be passed in writing (both modes) and through adventure mode arguments (uses some conversation skills)
• Animal people are playable as adventurers, arrive as fort visitors and sometimes live in towns in (playable) populations
• Children play with toys now, and they can also play make believe, in both modes
• Personality can be customized/randomized in adventure mode, appearance can be randomized as well
• Temples can be defiled in both modes, dwarf temples can be assigned to particular gods
• Adventurer can rent rooms in inns
• Adventurers can compose new poems, music and dances
• Adventurers can write material down on empty quires or scrolls
• Alcohol causes inebriation, erratic behavior, unconsciousness, death
• Festivals occur in world generation, though we haven't gotten them out of there yet
• Dwarves will wear trinkets again

Major bug fixes

• Fixed some army pathing issues
• Goblins have mounts again
• Fixed long-standing flow bug with unit occupancy
• Stopped some issues with brawls escalating to non-lethal

Other bug fixes/tweaks

• Looking at reaction screen for redded-out reactions in workshop will indicate missing reagents now
• Fixed inversion problem with half of the child/parent conversation thoughts
• Lots of historical figures that weren't around from the beginning didn't have deities when they were supposed to
• Allowed site finder to look for 1x1 sites
• Human civilizations now have randomized values
• Added ability to set invasion wave cap size

"


Also, last time my link was broken I think, so definitely check out the Armok Vision project. It's a guy in India who was the main guy behind Stonesense 2D graphics for DF making a graphical 3D front-end for DF in Unity.

Project thread on DF forums: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146473.0
You can see a lot of awesome screenshots there, although don't go in expecting too much, it's still very early.

Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/japamala?ty=h

 

[jcd]

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[Incantatar]

This was my point. Toady focuses on a lot of stuff but totally ignores the most basic gameplay mechanics. I like that he works on these things, but they should be worked on AFTER he finishes basics, not before that. What does it matter if every atom in the universe is properly simulated if the gameplay is broken? DF was supposed to be a game where you do stuff, not a world generator where you just watch it developing.

Toady doesn't even play the game. That's what he says again and again when asked. He just watches as you say the world generation. He only fixes the most severe bugs and doesn't concern himself with graphics, fps, the ui and gameplay all too much. It sucks but we have to acknowledge that DF isn't a tower defense game, it's 'his' fantasy simulation. People pay him for that and he probably wouldn't be developing any more if he only did what we wanted. I don't like it but i respect it.

 

[jcd]

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[Incantatar]

Who wants it to be a tower defense game?

I assume that's the core gameplay people that complain about adventure mode, world creation, story telling, character, etc. updates have in mind. I just picked that out as an obvious example, could be anything.

 

[jcd]

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[Incantatar]

Wat? It's anything but a tower defense game.

Whatever.

On another note. I'm working on a small mod that should be especially liked by Codexers. Un-SJWified DF so to speak.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

This was my point. Toady focuses on a lot of stuff but totally ignores the most basic gameplay mechanics. I like that he works on these things, but they should be worked on AFTER he finishes basics, not before that. What does it matter if every atom in the universe is properly simulated if the gameplay is broken? DF was supposed to be a game where you do stuff, not a world generator where you just watch it developing.

But what if the "lot of stuff" that you are talking about is what constitutes the basic gameplay mechanics? I know you are talking about stuff like basic combat, warfare, sieging, basic economy, etc, but his vision for DF is a full world simulation, so all this stuff that seems trivial at first is actually what feeds the simulation and allows the gameplay he is imagining in the future. They come up with these seemingly "trivial" features not out of their ass or due to random bouts of autism, but by writing/reading sample fantasy stories and distilling them into basic features a video game would have to have to support that kind of narrative procedurally emerging on its own. I don't think you can "get" DF unless you think about it in terms of the 30 year dev process.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

So can you dig a hole and wait for huge rain to fill it up with water? Like for example could you simulate a roof which has gutters (or channels) collecting rain water and then pooling all of that water into a hole?

I read a discussion between jcd and porky and I'm not sure. I know murky pools fill and rivers can fill up things.

And btw I LOVE THIS GAME'S FEELZ!! So much simulation. I think that's very unique. Most games take a simpler route and just fake everything. Most players don't notice and won't appreciate it even if it's simulated well. And simulating well is extremely hard or impossible. So the end result is most games fake it and for most players this is good enough.

I did play DF a few years ago. I played long enough to have a couple levels in my keep and to make a supply of water with the river. I was in the process of learning to mod it when I stopped and left. I didn't stop playing because DF is a bad game. I just get bored of every game I play after a while, no matter how good it's. Good games make me eventually come back.

I've programmed for 20 years. That's why I like DF. It's the dream all of us programmers have: to create another simulated world. Most of us just don't actually do it. Either we didn't have the will or didn't have the capacity on some level.

Toady is doing what most game makers don't have the luxury to do. DF is unique and small. It's not like a big game where they have to please extremely large audiences. Toady is much freer. I hope he can fully realize it!

The one thing which bothers me is the model of development. Many games are created and then sent out the door and mostly forgotten. It works. Toady is not doing that. Will he be able to keep going? Will the game be able to stay current? Will it stay relevant? I have no doubt DF can find a audience, but I'm not sure it can survive THIS.

EDIT: I do believe Toady is hte real deal though. Rain or shine. Stay strong Toady! I'm cheering you.