DX:IW VS HR?

[Drakron]

Even if it was "Biowarian", it was Mass Effect on Steroids and much more complex. Also it worked. Which can not be said about some other things of AP, sadly...

...No, it was tone+influence system with nothing complex about besides knowing what type of replies the NPC liked/disliked.

It was simply using the tone the NPC liked to be liked by the NPC or the tone he did not liked to be hated by the NPC.

The only "complexity" was instead of having Renegade/Paragon/Neutral there was Professional/Suave/Aggressive ... simply having a 3rd tone, unless you are talking about it having a Time Limit by I FUCKING HATE TIME LIMITS and was only there for CINEMATOGRAPHIC!!! as if you decided to do nothing, the game would just pick one for you.

It also bears mention that so far only half the social battles I've had in HR have multiple paths to victory. Generally it follows a "two strikes and you're out" system where you have to achieve a perfect match on all but one occasions for the "win" to happen. Sanders generally had a choice between Empathize and Reason, but Haas and Tong were one-solution guys. It also bears mention that not picking Social Enhancer would apparently result in "limited win" most of the time, meaning Social Enhancer is pretty much a guaranteed early pick.

The system is a bit random of what you get at start and there are no "two strikes and you're out", if you had picked the Social Enhancer you will notice there is a bar, as long you can get the bar near top you win but that is going to depend on how long the conversation drags on.

Haas is not a one solution guy, I found there are TWO successful endings to the conversation ... one were Jensen says he are sorry and the other were say its all on the past, how the one he wants to hear depends on what he says on the very last conversation.

Also the Social Enhancer is not something you use to win without a thought, the pheromones only work on one type of personality and will piss off another type of personality, since the personality type just flashes on the indicator you have to pay attention if its being lighted on the Alpha, Beta or Omega boxes ... and its not a limited win either, you can use it, for example, to get the Wagner to spill the beans without having to break into his computer and yes, you can win social battles by using it but you paid 2 Praxis points it and you still can win those without having to use the pheromones.

 

[sea]

The CASIE aug isn't always ideal. Often using it will get you to "win" the conversation, but can have long-term negative repercussions (i.e if you use the CASIE on Haas, you basically blackmail him and later on he tries to kill you after he loses his job, whereas if you forgive him, you can offer him a job at Sarif). It's a nice change from the whole "one best outcome" approach many games take.

 

[Phage]

Skyway, you done goofed.

 

[meh]

What's this DX:IW ? Never heard of it. Is it some kind of prosper mod?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Even if it was "Biowarian", it was Mass Effect on Steroids and much more complex. Also it worked. Which can not be said about some other things of AP, sadly...

...No, it was tone+influence system with nothing complex about besides knowing what type of replies the NPC liked/disliked.

It was simply using the tone the NPC liked to be liked by the NPC or the tone he did not liked to be hated by the NPC.

The only "complexity" was instead of having Renegade/Paragon/Neutral there was Professional/Suave/Aggressive ... simply having a 3rd tone, unless you are talking about it having a Time Limit by I FUCKING HATE TIME LIMITS and was only there for CINEMATOGRAPHIC!!! as if you decided to do nothing, the game would just pick one for you.

The time limit was great and put a lot more pressure for you to make decisions as a player, and so it achieved its purpose. Which is where having 3 or 2/4 (sometimes) choices steps in, so you would be able to make decisions under the time limit.

And on several occasions it pays to know what pisses the NPC off, again bringing back Marburg and Albatross.

You're also a bit of a hypocrite, since HR ALSO uses a tone system for dialogue choices, but it's good when it does it and bad when AP does it.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I think the correct question is that did Skyway even play the original Deus Ex. Because a lot of his statements point to not having done that.

Skyway has a long history of talking loudly about Deus Ex, but with little errors that hint that he never actually played the original game. Like criticising games for having 'red shirts v blue shirts' C+C compared to Deus Ex, where red v blue is WAY more C+C than the minor dialogue triggers and the ability to have different characters say the exact same dialogue (e.g. if Paul dies - which is one of the very few C+C you get, a scientist pops up and says the exact same stuff in the last level).

Have to say - just one example that summarises why HR is miles ahead of IW. 2nd hub of the game, there's an ambush section. If you're playing on 'give me Deus Ex' difficulty (and if you aren't, then that's your own problem), you are in 10 levels of shit if you try to fight your way out. Even normal guys tend to one-shot you if you haven't got the armour augs, and here you get suddenly swamped with 3 floors of heavy-armour grunts. If you haven't built specifically for combat, then a shoot-out is suicide. I had a stealth build, but just for experimentation (I wanted to see if the game would punish me for playing like a jack-of-all trades) I tried a few times to take one out, and none of the following were sufficient:
- 3 sniper shots, 2 of which were headshots (killed me straight after, despite being at range);
- entire revolver clip from close range (til cloak ran out and was killed)
- entire assault rifle clip from close range.

I stealth-killed one (difficult to do past the first one, as they patrol in sight of each other and the AI is pretty good at honing in on your location) and equipped his heavy rifle - now a combat build would have been able to use the heavy rifle to take out the other armoured grunts. Without any aiming upgrades the gun was useless for me - couldn't do anything but spray the room (and these guys needed concentrated fire to say the least).

Unlike DE1, cloak only buys you a few seconds to get into cover before it drains all your energy, plus enemies will react to sound if you make noise while invisible, and try to grenade your general area.

So instead I used my no-fall-damage aug to jump off the balcony and skip all 3 floors, cloaked, and ran to the exit (where there was a short section with 'normal' - i.e. killable at that point in the game by a non-combat build - enemies). If I had taken the speed and silent running augs, instead of the jump/heavy-objects/cloak build, it would have been a matter of going from cover to cover down the floors.

Basically, you had completely different approaches for every build but hacking (and hacking gets more love than any other aug set in the game, though you only need to focus on the main hacking aug set, not the fortify/analyse sets. Similarly, the 'stealth' set is pretty shitty for a stealth player - get the movement augs instead).

No it isn't as good as the original Deus Ex. But it's still a good game, and there aren't many of those these days.

Though there are two hilariously broken tactics. Both involve the vending machines + carry-heavy-objects aug.

Game-breaker 1: the 'vending machine rush'. There's two neat things you can do with the carry heavy objects aug, aside from using it to access otherwise off-limits areas. You can pick up a vending machine, or similarly large object, and use it as a shield to deflect bullets (they can take quite a lot of damage before they get destroyed). You can also throw them at people. Combine the two, and you have a completely broken way of storming through combat sections: pick up vending machines, charge at the enemies as they fire futilely into the machine, then throw the machine at them, either knocking them over 10-pin-bowling style or killing them outright. Killing enemies by throwing their friends' corpses at them works pretty well too. And it really is completely broken - carry/throw heavy objects uses hardly any energy so you can vending machine rush to your heart's content.

Game-breaker 2: the 'Looney Tunes stealth method'. You know how in old Looney Tunes cartoons, Bugs Bunny can stealth past ANYTHING by using a moveable bush, taking a few quick steps at the time while carrying the bush, and putting the bush down every few steps to pause? Do the same thing with a vending machine. Laugh as the otherwise-decent AI doesn't notice that the vending machine has slowly crept around the building and out the other side.

 

[Grunker]

Deus Ex is a beacon of game design with extremely minor flaws.

Invissible Wars a terrible game that has almost no redeeming qualities.

Human Revolution exists somewhere between the two. I wouldn't qualify it as a good game, but it's certainly better than Invissible War.

 

[Angthoron]

Skyway has a long history of talking loudly about Deus Ex, but with little errors that hint that he never actually played the original game.

This is more or less what I recall as well - and there were numerous things stated wrongly even in this thread by Skyway, especially in regards to the AI. I mean, DE has this place where you open a hatch in a sewer and whaddya know, there's a guy standing there. Always staring to the same direction. In a tight corridor where you can't even sneak around him. And this is by far not the only case of AI being borked.

Game-breaker 2: the 'Looney Tunes stealth method'. You know how in old Looney Tunes cartoons, Bugs Bunny can stealth past ANYTHING by using a moveable bush, taking a few quick steps at the time while carrying the bush, and putting the bush down every few steps to pause? Do the same thing with a vending machine. Laugh as the otherwise-decent AI doesn't notice that the vending machine has slowly crept around the building and out the other side.

I abused this one a little, especially in "public" places like police HQ, when hacking doors. Although I recall that this was also a tactic you could use in the original too. I could be wrong however, it's been a while - just felt like I've done it before (and got the idea to try it here from that, too).



As for DEHR vs AP branch of discussion, definitely DEHR. Here's why:

1) Competent work with game's engine, lack of legions of bugs. No graphical issues like freeze-frames.

2) Map design is way ahead of AP, AP's branching usually being quite insignificant, with hacking being generally a necessary evil rather than something you could do to, hey, access tons of interesting flavour text.

3) Shockingly, DEHR beats AP into submission writing-wise. DEHR is a by-the-book cyberpunk novel with a thousand or so terminals to hack to read (well-written) emails, AP is a by-the-book movie spy thriller with very little stuff that's not directly related to the plot. Hey guys, here's a hint: good writing is quite cheap compared to decent voice overs, sprinkle it all over and lock it on terminals and you'd have had a much more interesting game.

4) Fucking map size. FUCKING map size. This is one of the things to totally ruin IW, and this is one of the things that totally ruins AP. Would it be a better game if it had hubs like DEHR instead of an apartment where you could load tiny maps for 3-minutes-long conversations (looking at you, Albatross)? Why yes. Yes it would. It's a fucking spy game.

5) DEHR has way more freedom in approaching, well, just about any situation.

6) Dialogue-wise, I'd say it's a tie, as AP actually does some interesting things with dialogue, like talking while actually moving around (again looking at Albatross), but the whole "Stance" thing was a bit retarded because you'd not know what your character is saying. In Desu Exu HuRR you can at least mouse over the option to see a condensed version of the reply, which was very useful when talking to Sarif at this one point, for example. I still prefer the way the old DE and Torment handled dialogue, anyway.

7) Other stuff, fuck it, moving on.

 

[SoupNazi]

I don't bother replying to Skyway's long-winded posts like that anymore because heck, most of it is factually wrong. Waste of time, he never played the game and just watched some videos.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Skyway bashing as usual. I was waiting for Angthoron to answer his post, instead the usual 'skyway! LOL!' posts ensued.

Very boring.

 

[Grunker]

To be fair Blackadder, you can't reasonably expect everyone to answer Skyway argumentatively when he doesn't extend the courtesy of legitimate discussion himself.

I sometimes enjoy debating with him, but only when he can bury the excessive hyperbole which sadly characterizes most of his posts.

 

[Angthoron]

I would reply if his post had substance, instead it's Skyway comparing two games he probably hasn't played. I value my time a touch more than debating spherical cows in vacuum.

I mean, if Skyway had legit examples of things to cross-reference, rather than keep on tossing his usual strawmen, maybe I'd bite. But this? Come on. Just like the industry, Skyway isn't even trying, although he's still capable of making a triple-A piss-post that could blow a newfag's mind. Skyway has gone next-gen.

 

[Gord]

...No, it was tone+influence system with nothing complex about besides knowing what type of replies the NPC liked/disliked.

It was simply using the tone the NPC liked to be liked by the NPC or the tone he did not liked to be hated by the NPC.

The only "complexity" was instead of having Renegade/Paragon/Neutral there was Professional/Suave/Aggressive ... simply having a 3rd tone, unless you are talking about it having a Time Limit by I FUCKING HATE TIME LIMITS and was only there for CINEMATOGRAPHIC!!! as if you decided to do nothing, the game would just pick one for you.

[PERCEPTION] Me thinks you didn't like AP...

And what's so bad about finding out how to approach your opponent in dialogue?. On several occasions you could also use informations to your advantage you had discovered earlier. It seems certainly more complex than a simple speech check to me. Although this could be the better way to go in a proper rpg. And like Vaarna_Aarne I had no problem with the time limit.
On the whole I don't think AP is such a great game, there are many flaws, but the C&C through the dialogues was done well, IMO.

 

[MetalCraze]

Skyway, please answer my first question.

Did you play both games? Because I don't see how I answered my question for me. I'm guessing it's "no" though. Maybe even for both.

Yes I've played both. So wipe off your fanboy tears. DXHR is just a dumbed down shit you and other fanboy-retards pretentiously despise on the Codex.

It has full collection: retarded GoW combat where you are forced into cover, health regen, quest compass, enemy radar, minigames instead of skills. If the game was called Oblivion you would be shitting on it like there's no tomorrow.

To be fair Blackadder, you can't reasonably expect everyone to answer Skyway argumentatively when he doesn't extend the courtesy of legitimate discussion himself.

And what my previous post was?

I can see almost two pages of pretentious retards crying that my post is all lies but can't even tell exactly what is "lies" in it.

 

[SoupNazi]

It has full collection: retarded GoW combat where you are forced into cover

lie

health regen

insignificant on highest difficulty, also possible to turn off

quest compass

lie (it's disabled on highest difficulty)

enemy radar

fairly balanced, but yeah, shit

minigames instead of skills.

lie (because you used plural)

Previous posts:

DXHR is just a tight corridor where you can go 2m to the left or to the right aka next-gen "alternative passage"

lie, in fact this lie confirms that you never played it (perhaps other than the tutorial level)

As for DX and DXHR - in DX AI didn't stand in one place, facing away from the player most of the time.

lie (it does in DX, and not all AI in DXHR doesn't. in fact, DXHR has AI that patrols unpredictably, and turns around, unlike AI in DX which you could crouch-stalk for entire miles and they would never look behind)

All of it is linear because you still pass through the exactly same hallway.

lie (several instances in various levels where you can miss out on entire rooms and hallways entirely, pass through completely different floors etc)

how about avoiding guards altogether by flanking through the neighboring building? Oh wait you can't.

lie (you can do this in all of the city hubs, and in some of the missions inbetween. and when we consider not just neighbouring building but different pathways altogether, there's an alternative in almost any case)

You always can attempt to do [minigames]

lie (not if you don't have the skill)

(about item highlight)
Yes it's an only thing you can turn off.

lie (quest compass, map markers, hints/prompts, sticky cover can also be turned off)

So yeah nobody has to say "exactly" which parts of your posts are lies because pretty much everything is a lie, so there.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Deus Ex - 8/10
IW - 2/10
HR - 7/10

i concur.
hr suffers a lot from being a next-gen console game, including the areas being broken into smaller pieces, health regen, sticky cover, action-rpg skilltree with spell-like abilities instead of augs being items and there being actual separate skills, less world reactivity than dx, lame science fuckups, arcadey boss-fights, the entirely retarded final bos and some other shit as well, but it's still a good game entire worlds of quality above invisible war.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I'm not sure about that small pieces statement. Hong Kong in DX and Shanghai in HR are very similar in overall size per loading screen. But this is actually an utterly pointless thing to debate.

The augs are actually LESS of a spell-like ability type of stuff than in DX1, where we'd have weird things like occasionally hard skin.

I'm not so sure about world reactivity either, since as mentioned DX1 wasn't exactly a crown jewel in the C&C department either.

 

[Angthoron]

Skyway, please answer my first question.

Did you play both games? Because I don't see how I answered my question for me. I'm guessing it's "no" though. Maybe even for both.

Yes I've played both. So wipe off your fanboy tears. DXHR is just a dumbed down shit you and other fanboy-retards pretentiously despise on the Codex.

It has full collection: retarded GoW combat where you are forced into cover, health regen, quest compass, enemy radar, minigames instead of skills. If the game was called Oblivion you would be shitting on it like there's no tomorrow.

I can see almost two pages of pretentious retards crying that my post is all lies but can't even tell exactly what is "lies" in it.

SoupNazi said it all already - your "criticism" is just a nice pile of garbage. If you were even trying, you'd either shut up, pick a different trolling path or actually bring up evidence of your criticism points (if you were actually serious), instead, you're just being a one-trick banal troll. "Ah baww, people didn't take my strawmans aw baww imma call them fanboys baww GoW baww Oblivion baww moar shitty strawmans maybe someone will get butthurt"

Fail, Skyway, absolute fucking fail. You can't even troll properly anymore. Gettin' old, running out of steam, all that.

hr suffers a lot from being a next-gen console game, including the areas being broken into smaller pieces, health regen, sticky cover, action-rpg skilltree with spell-like abilities instead of augs being items and there being actual separate skills, less world reactivity than dx, lame science fuckups, arcadey boss-fights, the entirely retarded final bos and some other shit as well, but it's still a good game entire worlds of quality above invisible war.

Well, I wouldn't agree about the areas bit, I'd actually go and say that the areas are by and large at least as big as Deus Ex. Keep in mind that Hong Kong hub was also split into two or three areas, and considering console limitations, I'd say they did a fairly good job adapting.

Health regen was a bit disappointing, yes. It makes sense from the game perspective I guess, and as SoupNazi said, it's disableable, but... meh. It should've stayed out.

Sticky cover, call me a consoletard if you will, but I actually sort of liked what they went for here. I recall playing DE back then and thinking that it would be "so cool" if there was such a feature. Of course, I didn't know it would become as widespread and as horribly implemented in modern shooters back then, but... This is actually okay. Stick your head out for long enough, you're detected, don't stick it out, good luck lining that shot. Still, would've preferred 1st person view.

Augs... Yeah. While I don't necessarily agree with what you're saying, I do agree that augs should've been handled differently. Mutual exclusivity. See through walls or have better aim? Carry large items, or be good at disarming bombs? That sort of a thing. As it is, you can grab them all.

World reactivity is at least as good as in DE though, not that it's a compliment - there should've been more reactivity, much more. Still, even the fact that there IS roughly as much of it (more? less? depends) is a good sign.

Boss fights fucking suck in DEHR. I guess they tried to pay some homage to Gunther and Navarre, but it's just bad. Big disappointment the first time I ran into it.

Science fuck-ups though, what sort of fuck-ups do you mean? I wasn't necessarily paying attention to that, so if you can point them out, would be good.

 

[MetalCraze]

lie

If you are not in popamole cover you are getting killed very fast as enemies shoot with an aimbot precision on highest difficulty but as soon as you are in popamole cover they can't hit you for shit anymore.

insignificant on highest difficulty, also possible to turn off

Care to tell me how do you turn off health regen?
With health regen you can take 100 of bullets and not die. Very fucking insignficant right there.

lie (it's disabled on highest difficulty)

You are lying. Quest compass can't be disabled in the game at all. Unless there's some other difficulty past "Give me Deus Ex" that I've missed?

fairly balanced, but yeah, shit

Showing every enemy and enemy's facing direction - same goes for cameras - "fairly balanced"?

lie (because you used plural)

Minigames instead of skills <- so where's the lie there?

lie, in fact this lie confirms that you never played it (perhaps other than the tutorial level)

Proof? I've actually completed two levels past the tutorial and they are linear as fuck.

lie (it does in DX, and not all AI in DXHR doesn't. in fact, DXHR has AI that patrols unpredictably, and turns around, unlike AI in DX which you could crouch-stalk for entire miles and they would never look behind)

Actually no in DX they do patrol but I like how you try to weasel out by saying "not all AI" which the same as saying almost all of them. And they can't patrol "unpredictably" since the game takes place in corridors.

But stealth is shitty in both so not much difference.

lie (several instances in various levels where you can miss out on entire rooms and hallways entirely, pass through completely different floors etc)

No it isn't a lie. A 3mx3m room to the left of the corridor doesn't count. In Deus Ex in one of the levels with security robots f.e. you can ditch the whole huge building.

lie (you can do this in all of the city hubs, and in some of the missions inbetween. and when we consider not just neighbouring building but different pathways altogether, there's an alternative in almost any case)

A vent shaft 2 m to the left does not count. A room 2m to the left does not count. I'm sorry. This is 2011. Didn't I say this in my previous post?

lie (not if you don't have the skill)

Which you just need to have at level 1 to attempt any minigame related to it. Which means a horrible dumbing down. FFS I need to have "skills" to play minigames - the fuck?

lie (quest compass, map markers, hints/prompts, sticky cover can also be turned off)

Tell me where? Where do you turn off at least quest compass?
That's among other retarded shit like "map markers" marking cameras and enemies.

SoupNazi said it all already - your "criticism" is just a nice pile of garbage.

So in your retarded fanboy world quoting bits from post and replying to them with "lie!" without any argument to back that up (apart from "That isn't significant!") is a strong and solid response?

 

[Angthoron]

If you are not in popamole cover you are getting killed very fast as enemies shoot with an aimbot precision on highest difficulty but as soon as you are in popamole cover they can't hit you for shit anymore.

Get the DR augs and you're golden.

lie, in fact this lie confirms that you never played it (perhaps other than the tutorial level)

Proof? I've actually completed two levels past the tutorial and they are linear as fuck.

Which is what? Saving the hostages? Well, that is pretty linear, and the AI is "looking at walls" due to looking for shit. Or which two levels past do you mean? FEMA base? Hengsha?

lie (it does in DX, and not all AI in DXHR doesn't. in fact, DXHR has AI that patrols unpredictably, and turns around, unlike AI in DX which you could crouch-stalk for entire miles and they would never look behind)

Actually no in DX they do patrol but I like how you try to weasel out by saying "not all AI" which the same as saying almost all of them. And they can't patrol "unpredictably" since the game takes place in corridors.

2 levels make you an expert, right. Yes, they actually do patrol "unpredictably", turning around in the middle of patrol path, looking around etc. No, they're not having procedurally generated patrol paths, if that's what you're getting at, but as a scripted patrol goes, it's better than DE.

lie (several instances in various levels where you can miss out on entire rooms and hallways entirely, pass through completely different floors etc)

No it isn't a lie. A 3mx3m room to the left of the corridor doesn't count. In Deus Ex in one of the levels with security robots f.e. you can ditch the whole huge building.

You can ditch the whole police building sneaking by playing your cards right to a police officer at the enterance.

lie (you can do this in all of the city hubs, and in some of the missions inbetween. and when we consider not just neighbouring building but different pathways altogether, there's an alternative in almost any case)

A vent shaft 2 m to the left does not count. A room 2m to the left does not count. I'm sorry. This is 2011.

Do I need to post a mandatory CODMW2 screenshot here? Or maybe one from Dragon Age 2? This is indeed 2011 and don't you forget that. Also, there is larger variation than that, though unfortunately you don't get to go through different levels. Still, Hengsha hub for one offers quite a few different ways of getting to your goal - go through the roofs, through vents, or do a frontal assault, all of this through fairly different paths, and with different style/effort. Yeah, not perfect, but for ten years of near absolute decline this is quite a step in the right direction.

lie (not if you don't have the skill)

Which you just need to have at level 1 to attempt any minigame related to it. Which means a horrible dumbing down.

Ah, so you didn't make it past the hostage place. No, this isn't the case. You need Capture L5 to attempt ANY minigame. L1 won't even let you into most rooms at Sarif's.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I want to play Skyway: The Game. It will look something like this:

 

[Angthoron]

So in your retarded fanboy world quoting bits from post and replying to them with "lie!" without any argument to back that up (apart from "That isn't significant!") is a strong and solid response?

No, in my retarded fanboy world people actually give valid criticism based on something, rather than toss strawmen around and hope somebody bites. You could've avoided much of it if you wanted to, you know, by actually saying "Hey guys, I didn't get out of prologue, but didn't like the game, so here's my impression so far". You could say it edgy-like, "You know what, fuck this shit, I've had enough, the game is shit and I'm not even out of prologue yet", or something like that, it's totally understandable, not like ToEE didn't have a shitty start and improved later or anything. It's 2011 and a game that's shitty at the start is usually shitty throughout.

It's not the case here, it's an alright game, nothing to fanboy over, but definitely well made, but if you don't want to give it a benefit of a doubt, hey, your call, just don't be a fucking expert on it then, mkay.

 

[MetalCraze]

Get the DR augs and you're golden.

What about before and without them like in good games (that includes DX)?

Which is what? Saving the hostages? Well, that is pretty linear, and the AI is "looking at walls" due to looking for shit. Or which two levels past do you mean? FEMA base? Hengsha?

Is it that retarded argument "the game gets totally better 5 minutes after you've stopped playing it" again?

2 levels make you an expert, right.

"You haven't played the game enough, you can't criticize!". Looks like a retarded argument jackpot possibility here.

No, they're not having procedurally generated patrol paths, if that's what you're getting at, but as a scripted patrol goes, it's better than DE.

No they are not having procedurally generated patrol paths in 2011 is what you want to say.

Wow they turn around - big deal. If it was a stealth game that would've been a slight improvement yeah.

You can ditch the whole police building sneaking by playing your cards right to a police officer at the enterance.

You don't get it? In the retarded next-gen non-linearity you either skip shit or forced to go through it yes.

What about the actual alternative path, not skipping the chunk of a game but being free to go anywhere you want at any time?

Do I need to post a mandatory CODMW2 screenshot here? Or maybe one from Dragon Age 2? This is indeed 2011 and don't you forget that

Are you saying there are no games but CoD and DA? That explains why DXHR seems like a good one to you.

Ah, so you didn't make it past the hostage place. No, this isn't the case. You need Capture L5 to attempt ANY minigame.

Wait are you saying I need to actually invest more points if I want to play more minigames?

In DX I didn't have to play stupid shit like minigames, I had to use skillchecks to pass. Catch my drift?

 

[SoupNazi]

If you are not in popamole cover you are getting killed very fast as enemies shoot with an aimbot precision on highest difficulty but as soon as you are in popamole cover they can't hit you for shit anymore.

Enemies don't have aimbot precision on the top difficulty. If you use cover (not the popamole one, just normal FPS taking cover) then you don't get killed. In ArmA2 you are getting killed very fast.

Care to tell me how do you turn off health regen?

With a mod

With health regen you can take 100 of bullets and not die. Very fucking insignficant right there.

No you can't. One-two bullets of a pistol can kill you.

You are lying. Quest compass can't be disabled in the game at all. Unless there's some other difficulty past "Give me Deus Ex" that I've missed?

By quest compass I meant what appears on your screen, in the HUD (the markers). If you mean map markers on the map screen then those can also be turned off by clicking on them.

Showing every enemy and enemy's facing direction - same goes for cameras - "fairly balanced"?

Cameras are retarded yeah and shouldn't be there. But unless you upgrade your radar then only enemies in close proximity are visible on the radar.

Minigames instead of skills <- so where's the lie there?

Do you not know the meaning of the word "plural", Skyway? There is only one minigame

Proof? I've actually completed two levels past the tutorial and they are linear as fuck.

Why don't you post your proof? But whatever, I'll bite:

linear
Not to mention that's just 1/3 of a level, (all thirds are accessible) and there are also above and below ground levels). Linear my ass, Skyway.

Same goes for the Seattle hub, the lab in Montreal. The only even remotely linear levels are the factory (and even then you have several paths everywhere and different ways to go through the level) and the last mission.

Actually no in DX they do patrol but I like how you try to weasel out by saying "not all AI" which the same as saying almost all of them. And they can't patrol "unpredictably" since the game takes place in corridors.

Can you read? In both games they patrol but HR's are a little more unpredictable because they turn around every now and then. In DX they just go from point A to point B, then back to A, then to B again. In HR between those points they look behind them and around, and check out their surroundings.

No it isn't a lie. A 3mx3m room to the left of the corridor doesn't count. In Deus Ex in one of the levels with security robots f.e. you can ditch the whole huge building.

In HR you can ditch whole missions, entire streets and huge buildings with several floors. There is a sewer complex you don't have to enter at all, etc. And even in buildings in HR it's not a 3x3m room to the left, in one of the latter missions for example you enter a gigantic lab research building and you have free reign over it. There are three people you have to find inside and you can go any direction, examine the entire building, and it's literally a fully functional building just like irl. No door is locked, it's not linear at all. That's how most of HR's places are designed.

A vent shaft 2 m to the left does not count. A room 2m to the left does not count. I'm sorry. This is 2011. Didn't I say this in my previous post?

Again, you're lying. Or rather, assuming shit despite not playing the game

Which you just need to have at level 1 to attempt any minigame related to it. Which means a horrible dumbing down.

Again you're lying. You can't attempt any level 2, level 3 etc minigames.

Tell me where? Where do you turn off at least quest compass?
That's among other retarded shit like "map markers" marking cameras and enemies.

In options

So in your retarded fanboy world quoting bits from post and replying to them with "lie!" without any argument to back that up (apart from "That isn't significant!") is a strong and solid response?

Well it's better than making shit up, or even better asking for "Proofz!?" without providing any yourself.

 

[Angthoron]

Get the DR augs and you're golden. What about before and without them like in good games (that includes DX)?

This game is about augs. This game is about a guy that got crushed in the beginning with a punch to the face. The protagonist is a weak fucker. I'm okay with that. If I want a superhero, I can play Serious Sam or Duke. You want all games to be the same? Fuck you.

I've not read Pasternak, but I do have my opinion

Good on you, preconceptions are always spot-on, I've never been pleasantly surprised in my life, why should anyone else be.

You can ditch the whole police building sneaking by playing your cards right to a police officer at the enterance.

You don't get it? In the retarded next-gen non-linearity you either skip shit or forced to go through it yes.

What the fuck? You just glorified DE for cutting corners, now it's bad when another game lets you do it? And no, you can FIRST avoid confrontation and sneaking, but AFTER confront and sneak anyway! BUT WAIT THAT MEANS THAT ITS NEXTGEN AND SHIT FUCK IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU DO ANYWAO.

What about the actual alternative path, not skipping the chunk of a game but being free to go anywhere you want at any time?

What about it? Did the original have this option? Should this game maybe included Mech fighting and flight sim combat? This is a Deus Ex title, I don't know what you fucking expected, Diablo rolled into one with Morrowind?

Do I need to post a mandatory CODMW2 screenshot here? Or maybe one from Dragon Age 2? This is indeed 2011 and don't you forget that

Are you saying there are no games but CoD and DA? That explains why DXHR seems like a good one to you.

Bring the glorious examples of non-linear games, then. Don't bring up ArmA2 though, I have it, thanks, played it, too, believe it or not. Let's say ArmA2 doesn't count/exist. Name some names, I'll play 'em, if you're right I'll join you in shitting all over everything else.

Ah, so you didn't make it past the hostage place. No, this isn't the case. You need Capture L5 to attempt ANY minigame.

Wait are you saying I need to actually invest more points if I want to play more minigames?

In DX I didn't have to play stupid shit like minigames, I had to use skillchecks to pass. Catch my drift?

Yeah, it had an Awesome Button to open locks. DEHR has auto-lockpicks you can buy. Your point?