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I get the complaints about the mini dungeons, but am really having a difficult time understanding where these issues with content in exploration or a lack of a sense of purpose is coming from. In 30 hours of play, there has hardly been a moment where I haven't been discovering something new and intriguing, often times getting distracted and taken on a big adventure, only to remember hours later what my initial goal had been when I set out. The lowest points have been said mini dungeons, which were quickly completed and I've only found a few.
I'm not really defending the game or anything - as it clearly doesn't need to be defended - but I am just genuinely confused when I see some of these complaints because of the shear volume of meaningful exploration, adventure, and discovery I am experiencing moment to moment.
That's exactly my feeling. I'm approaching 30 hours so far and there was no moment where I wasn't discovering new stuff, be it a optional dungeon or mine, be it some new NPCs asking me something or even bosses coming out of nowhere in the open world. There was quite a lot of times where I just saw something on the map and went there and just spent two hours exploring a new area.
Also, for people saying they are lost, even though I've read this at least 10 times on this thread, here comes the eleventh: if you wanna go to the main quest, just follow the direction that the graces are pointing out in the map. Thats just it.
Yeah, but the problem is they're pretty repetitive. I've encountered the catacombs map 3 times already with the same contraption blocks the door to boss gimmick. Twice with the flame column, one had a different gimmick in form of a trap which was cool, but otherwise pretty much the same. As well for the mine template dungeon, all were same-y. Maybe it gets more diverse lately, but the first impression is go in, kill some mooks, evade one or two traps, boss, rinse and repeat.
I can understand the feeling. I don't think they change to be honest. For me, they sound similar to what the chalice dungeons were in BB: just a extra generic dungeon for you to go and fight a boss. Even the rewards are not worthy, but I still have fun doing them.
The mechanics and systems are a big step up from Rollspam 3, and the actual major levels and legacy dungeons are on par with the rest of the series. But the mini dungeons and open world content is getting quite samey...The mines have had some variance but overall the mini dungeons are very repetitive and linear, often with repeating boss fights. Every open world game I've played has had this issue (which is why games have garbage like level scaling and random loot, so you can skip half of the copy pasted content,) but it's still lame. I guess I can't expect anything else from an open world game though.
This is where I'm at with it as well. A real curate's egg.
Because it's FromSoft the combat mechanics are light years ahead of any newish open-world game I've played. Same with the level design of any discrete major location I've encountered so far. The aesthetic presentation can feel a little phoned in at times. The music is BSB. Some lazily reused enemy models, animations etc.
The open world and minor dungeon content are where it really starts to unravel. Just off the top of my head:
Art assets, enemies etc. that might have been unique to a single location are plastered all over huge, flat areas. Or, even worse, reused over and over for tiny side dungeons. 1 to 3 rooms then boss fog, every time.
I'm grinding birds and sheep for crafting materials in a Soulslike, what the fuck.
The horse trivialises most overworld encounters. It’s too easy to either to cheese enemies with mounted combat or run away.
The open world mechanics really adulterate the sense of adventure as well. As an example:
The transporter trap in the Dragon-Burnt Ruins got me. I ended up in the crystal tunnel, barely escaped with my life and ended up outside in the Caelid swamp area. Pretty cool moment until you realise you could teleport back to the starting area with no penalty. I made my way back to Limgrave manually which was still boring as it's so easy to YOLO your way across the overworld on horseback. Wasted potential for a cool divergent path.
I mean I'm still enjoying the moment to moment combat and the main locations. But, as ever, the open world is little more than water in the wine for me.
Is this what MMOs feel like? Bland overworlds with better instanced content? I don’t know because I’ve never played one. I'm a fucking moron, I've played Warframe. Definitely some broad similarities in open world design (specifically to Cetus or Fortuna) allowing for the different genre in each case.
Similar experience. I critiqued From for not building a stronger experience by expanding their adventure & narrative elements before so I’m not surprised to think it’s OK but “samey.”
Could be both. How far into the game are you? If you're still very early on I'd personally be wary of considering all the random dungeon bosses you run into as 'real' bosses. Sure, they have a boss health bar but for the most part they are just glorified unique enemies that aren't unique at all
Both. The game can feel easier because there is more room to maneuver around enemies and then there is the horse. In addition to that, as Super Bunnyhop pointed out in one of his videos about DS3 'If you ever feel like Dark Souls 3 is an easier game than the others, consider this, there are simply less places to fall off an edge.'
Just finished the area and there are no demigods there, so I take this is completely optional. So, you're just saying me that fucking from software made the whole southern part of the map that took me at least 8 hours to explore in total just "for fun"?
I'd really like to suck Miyazaki's colossal dick right now.
Yeah, I've been through that area as well. T'was fun, even though those feathery bastards are a bitch and a half to fight.
And the sword you get by beating the area boss, who was pretty easy, is pretty much the Iron Throne with a handle, making it the only evidence that George R.R. Martin worked on the game.
From what I understand he built out the world and its factions pre-cataclysm and then From/Miyazaki did the post collapse treatment. I could be wrong about that tho
Just finished the area and there are no demigods there, so I take this is completely optional. So, you're just saying me that fucking from software made the whole southern part of the map that took me at least 8 hours to explore in total just "for fun"?
I'd really like to suck Miyazaki's colossal dick right now.
Yeah, I've been through that area as well. T'was fun, even though those feathery bastards are a bitch and a half to fight.
And the sword you get by beating the area boss, who was pretty easy, is pretty much the Iron Throne with a handle, making it the only evidence that George R.R. Martin worked on the game.
Just finished the area and there are no demigods there, so I take this is completely optional. So, you're just saying me that fucking from software made the whole southern part of the map that took me at least 8 hours to explore in total just "for fun"?
I'd really like to suck Miyazaki's colossal dick right now.
Yeah, I've been through that area as well. T'was fun, even though those feathery bastards are a bitch and a half to fight.
And the sword you get by beating the area boss, who was pretty easy, is pretty much the Iron Throne with a handle, making it the only evidence that George R.R. Martin worked on the game.
I think the game is easier, but for me I think it's because they balanced NG to be less severe in terms of hitpoints/damage. In all of the boss fights I've had so far, I left thinking, "That boss would have been incredibly difficult in any other Souls game, but it barely did any damage." Maybe I'm just over leveled, I don't know. There are a few really difficult boss fights you can find at the start, but they are clearly meant to be done later.
As to the horse making things easy, I disagree. The horse really only helps you in open world trash mob combat. Even then, I find horse combat so dull and slow against non-trivial enemies, that I usually just end up jumping off my horse half way through the fight anyway.
The gates of Moria means you can use your summons, the others on the left (at some point there was 4 or 5 below my health bar) I have absolutely no idea.
I think the game is easier, but for me I think it's because they balanced NG to be less severe in terms of hitpoints/damage. In all of the boss fights I've had so far, I left thinking, "That boss would have been incredibly difficult in any other Souls game, but it barely did any damage." Maybe I'm just over leveled, I don't know. There are a few really difficult boss fights you can find at the start, but they are clearly meant to be done later.
As to the horse making things easy, I disagree. The horse really only helps you in open world trash mob combat. Even then, I find horse combat so dull and slow against non-trivial enemies, that I usually just end up jumping off my horse half way through the fight anyway.
About the difficulty, I said earlier that it was in the same level as every other souls games for a pure melee build, but I do think it's easier now. As someone mentioned, there's the fact that we've been playing this shit for a decade now, so we really got gud. I'm pretty sure that anyone playing the first souls game here must be tweeting like crazy about the lack of an easy mode.
I think the biggest sign of the "easiness" for me so far is that the enemies do very low amounts of damage. I even gave up using an armor and I'm going like a crazy girl through Limgrave and Weeping Woods with just a sword in hand and even with this, very rarely the enemies are giving me damage enough.
I didn't search so much, but at the time of the release date trailer, I remember reading some interviews of Miyazaki where he said that Martin gave some guidance on creating the world, something about it's folklore, history and such.
In terms of NPCs intentions and even bosses ideas for designs in such, I do think he had no participation at all.
I get the complaints about the mini dungeons, but am really having a difficult time understanding where these issues with content in exploration or a lack of a sense of purpose is coming from. In 30 hours of play, there has hardly been a moment where I haven't been discovering something new and intriguing, often times getting distracted and taken on a big adventure, only to remember hours later what my initial goal had been when I set out. The lowest points have been said mini dungeons, which were quickly completed and I've only found a few.
I'm not really defending the game or anything - as it clearly doesn't need to be defended - but I am just genuinely confused when I see some of these complaints because of the shear volume of meaningful exploration, adventure, and discovery I am experiencing moment to moment.
The AAA open world doesn't feel any different here than when I first encountered it in Blood Dragon years ago now. There are good mainline "missions" with actual level design, actual encounter design, some story beats etc. However most of your time is spent using a vehicle (or mount) to traverse between optional generic outposts, small enemy groups or treasure zones. Overly generous fast travel is available once you get bored. I've never found it particularly engaging but it's totally worn out, uninspired game design by this point.
Don't get me wrong Elden Ring is probably about as good as a game made this way can get but these modern open worlds always feel like they've been shat out by an algorithm once you take away the "mainline" content.
At present, not a timeless classic the way the Souls game are. Just a pretty good game. I'll see if my opinion changes as I go further ahead.
The gates of Moria means you can use your summons, the others on the left (at some point there was 4 or 5 below my health bar) I have absolutely no idea.
This game seriously needs a UI glossary. I'm all for figuring things out and exploring, etc. but half the time I have icons on my screen and I'm like wtf does that mean?
I get the complaints about the mini dungeons, but am really having a difficult time understanding where these issues with content in exploration or a lack of a sense of purpose is coming from. In 30 hours of play, there has hardly been a moment where I haven't been discovering something new and intriguing, often times getting distracted and taken on a big adventure, only to remember hours later what my initial goal had been when I set out. The lowest points have been said mini dungeons, which were quickly completed and I've only found a few.
I'm not really defending the game or anything - as it clearly doesn't need to be defended - but I am just genuinely confused when I see some of these complaints because of the shear volume of meaningful exploration, adventure, and discovery I am experiencing moment to moment.
The AAA open world doesn't feel any different here than when I first encountered it in Blood Dragon years ago now. There are good mainline "missions" with actual level design, actual encounter design, some story beats etc. However most of your time is spent using a vehicle (or mount) to traverse between optional generic outposts, small enemy groups or treasure zones. Overly generous fast travel is available once you get bored. I've never found it particularly engaging but it's totally worn out, uninspired game design by this point.
Don't get me wrong Elden Ring is probably about as good as a game made this way can get but these modern open worlds always feel like they've been shat out by an algorithm once you take away the "mainline" content.
At present, not a timeless classic the way the Souls game are. Just a pretty good game. I'll see if my opinion changes as I go further ahead.
You got me curious with this one, since I've never played a open world game before: Does ER feels the same as, say, Witcher 3, Fallout 3, Skyrim and such in terms of content? Are the main quest very good but also a great deal of side content in them?
What is the best of the best in terms of open world design?
The AAA open world doesn't feel any different here than when I first encountered it in Blood Dragon years ago now. There are good mainline "missions" with actual level design, actual encounter design, some story beats etc. However most of your time is spent using a vehicle (or mount) to traverse between optional generic outposts, small enemy groups or treasure zones. Overly generous fast travel is available once you get bored. I've never found it particularly engaging but it's totally worn out, uninspired game design by this point.
Don't get me wrong Elden Ring is probably about as good as a game made this way can get but these modern open worlds always feel like they've been shat out by an algorithm once you take away the "mainline" content.
At present, not a timeless classic the way the Souls game are. Just a pretty good game. I'll see if my opinion changes as I go further ahead.
I can't think of many open world RPGs that are better than this, honestly. Each area feels distinct, they loop back onto each other in Souls-like fashion (discovering the item that's out of reach in the very first opening area was a great surprise), and at least in the opening areas, there's very little that feels copy-pasta'd. And the sheer scale of things is impressive. You can compare it to the Witcher, for example, but Witcher 3 and most open world games frequently feel like everything is all designed on one flat plane. With Elden Ring, you might spend an hour fighting through one area, only to suddenly loop back onto it a few hours later, only this time from thousands of feet above it. Graphically, the game is a bit janky, which means that I'm not sure that it does immersion into a world as well as some other games (not to mention that it's very much a souls-like, which means that the world is essentially just enemies), but it's incredibly impressive level design. I cannot remember the last game that had exploration that's as rewarding and fun as this.
My biggest gripe with the game thus far is with the lore. Honestly, the world feels like rehashed Dark Souls, only......very, very slightly different. Bloodborne and Sekiro were also souls-likes, but they each had very distinct universes and aesthetics which were interesting and appealing in their own right. Elden Ring just feels like FromSoft wrote a script for Dark Souls 4 and decided to make a new IP at the last second, so they just went through all the lore and changed the names of things so people wouldn't notice. Whatever they paid GRRM, they need to get their money back, lol. I know that Souls-likes usually tell their stories via background, so maybe once people start putting the pieces together it will be interesting, but absolutely nothing about this universe has grabbed me yet.
Easy to avoid or run away from fights due to the horse/stealth. Very easy to go around enemies in general due to how open the overworld is. Also very ready access to addtional targets to distract enemies with the spirit summons
Different ethos here compared to older Souls games. Not the same feeling of every encounter being a challenge that you must overcome to progress. Much looser than that with some stuff that you have to beat and some stuff that you can fight if you can be arsed to ride over to it.
I get the complaints about the mini dungeons, but am really having a difficult time understanding where these issues with content in exploration or a lack of a sense of purpose is coming from. In 30 hours of play, there has hardly been a moment where I haven't been discovering something new and intriguing, often times getting distracted and taken on a big adventure, only to remember hours later what my initial goal had been when I set out. The lowest points have been said mini dungeons, which were quickly completed and I've only found a few.
I'm not really defending the game or anything - as it clearly doesn't need to be defended - but I am just genuinely confused when I see some of these complaints because of the shear volume of meaningful exploration, adventure, and discovery I am experiencing moment to moment.
I have a few theories about this. One is that this being an open-world, filler content and meaningless connective tissue are inevitable, and those tend to cheapen an otherwise concise experience. The other is the conflicting goals the game gives you, there's the main objective but, at the same time, you're encouraged to lose yourself on the way and explore side content, compared to previous entries where it was: ring bell, kill boss, etc (you could sequence break and try alternate routes, but it was always a straight line). Combine the wandering with the fact that the optional activities can be very unfulfilling (it can do nothing for your build or shed no new light on the plot threads you're following) and you get the feeling of aimlessness.
Another possibility is that, ultimately, Souls games are what I call "wiki" games, in that the lore only blossoms after a few Vaati videos, and people only feel confident in their builds after almost everything is properly cataloged and they can min/max their invasion setup or engage in their cosplay of choice. Until we get to that point folks will feel lost.
