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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,928
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
DS3 just redid that but made it more epic and depressing. DS2 was set in the same context of the First Flame fading but I liked how it tended to reflect more about the nature of those who would attempt to rekindle the flame and how, at least with the DLCs, it suggested there might be another path beyond and between the flame and the dark

But DS3 did this in both the base game and in the DLC? It clearly wasn't just about relighting the flame.
I think DS2 has the merit of approaching the same problem of the cycle in a more nuanced manner. The conversations with Aldia and the NPCs that are losing their selfs and identities, plus the overall sadness in the music and visuals (Majula) felt to me a more interesting aproach than DS3 overall. Not that DS3 is all bad, it has it's interesting points too (the lore around Londor and Ringed City specially IMO), but as D_X said, it felt a tad more of the same and less interesting than DS2 take. And I say that as someone who hated DS2 gameplay, finsihing it just once and never wanting to touch it again. But merit where it deserves.

Edit:

Cowboy Moment said:
Have yet to see anything as good as DS2 DLC levels in Elden Ring, though I'm still far from finishing the game.
Was agreeing with you on everything else, but this part here I can't agree with. Stormveil castle alone is better than everything DS2, DLC included, had in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
Was agreeing with you on everything else, but this part here I can't agree with. Stormveil castle alone is better than everything DS2, DLC included, had in my opinion.

Fair. It is a really good level. One thing I hold against it is that it's kind of conventional, in the sense that it feels like a tribute to world 1 in DeS. It could also do with more of a gameplay-related identity, it's a bit too much of "knights and soldiers on battlements" at the end of the day. But it has some nice ideas beyond that, like making good use of the jump mechanic and forcing the player to figure out their own way around the blockade.
 

hackncrazy

Savant
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
415
To give a properly holistic answer to this question, I think DS2 is the better game because it still tries to use encounter design, enemy placement, and environmental hazards, to provide challenge, rather than giving every second enemy unpredictable 7 hit combos and calling it a day. I'm not going to defend some of its shoddy content, but it's the last Souls game with serious dungeon crawler roots, whereas the games after Bloodborne are all just edgy combat simulators, Elden Ring included.

I disagree with this in parts. I agree that DS2 still tries and gives some very good dungeon crawling sense (which I think was severely lost in DS3), but I think Elden Ring found this again. Even if Catacombs, Caves and Mines are small, they still give some tension, but if we speak about the game in general, it's like huge dungeon crawler, one which you can approach in every way you like, and one which the Legacy Dungeons give an extremely satisfying crawling experience.

Let me give you an example of what I mean by this. You complain about bosses in DS2 having limited movesets. Well, one of the hardest bosses in Demon's Souls, the Maneaters, also have like 4 different moves, of which maybe 2 are actually dangerous. So, how are they difficult with such a limited moveset? There's two of them, they can fly, and the fight takes place on a narrow bridge, where you have to constantly be careful of rolling off the ledge or getting knocked off. The way this constrains your mobility and positioning is what makes the fight hard.

I agree completely about Maneaters being an excellent fight using a limited moveset. Then again, this doesn't help DS2 case. We have bosses with very limited movesets and fights that don't use the environment in such a elegant manner the way Demon's did you Tower of Latria and Maneaters. In DS2, you have fights like the Giant that I mentioned, which sincerely is a joke. And then you have really awful stuff like Dragonriders, The Giant Frog from Shrine of Amana whose entirely moveset consists in hugging you or getting up and stomping you, and so on. The DLCs bring some needed variety to this, with great fights like Fume, Alonne, Sihn, Aava, but comparing with other vanilla souls experiences, DS2 is really barebones in this department.


On level design in DS2 specifically, for all of its shoddy areas, I'm pretty sure that it still wins over Elden Ring on average, with its empty theme park open world and copypaste crypts and mines. Even on an individual level, comparing apples to apples, Lost Bastille > Raya Lucaria, for example. Have yet to see anything as good as DS2 DLC levels in Elden Ring, though I'm still far from finishing the game.

This one I disagree completely. For my non professional tastes, Raya Lucaria is probably one of the best levels I've ever played in a 3d game, and probably the best in the souls series (or at least on top of the game, with things like Tower of Latria being close). For much as Eleum Loyce brings a very fresh experience and a great, intricate level design that DS2 didn't have before, I think it's even unfair to compare it with Raya, not to mention Bastille.

Also, I'll read your thoughts on DS3 in a bit!
 

Curratum

Guest
For real, though, screw the open world structuring of quests.

I can't seem to beat Radahn but not beating him means that I also can't
find Ranni in her tower, because people say the game needs the Wolf-warrior there with her for that questline to start, and he's stuck in Radahn's castle for the tournament. I can't fully complete Siofra underground too, because he has a quest there too and even if I clear the area, I will miss it.
 

hackncrazy

Savant
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
415
For real, though, screw the open world structuring of quests.

I can't seem to beat Radahn but not beating him means that I also can't
find Ranni in her tower, because people say the game needs the Wolf-warrior there with her for that questline to start, and he's stuck in Radahn's castle for the tournament. I can't fully complete Siofra underground too, because he has a quest there too and even if I clear the area, I will miss it.

Well, I'm not sure about how the quest gets structutured if you find Blaidd in Radahn's festival first, but in my case, I started Ranni's quest way before going to Radahn and everything evolved quite a lot before I beat him
 

Brickfrog

Learned
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Messages
825
This is the first non-pixel rpg iv ever played where I continue to find huge new hidden areas more than 60 hours in. Jesus fucking christ this game is big.
 

Curratum

Guest
Are you people able to summon human players for coop?

Every summon sign I touch gives me "Unable to summon" errors.
 

Brickfrog

Learned
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Messages
825
Are you people able to summon human players for coop?

Every summon sign I touch gives me "Unable to summon" errors.
The summon economy is experiencing a severe supply/demand problem at the moment. Best you can do is try to summon as soon as the sign starts glowing hoping someone doesn't beat you to it.
 
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
571
DS3 just redid that but made it more epic and depressing. DS2 was set in the same context of the First Flame fading but I liked how it tended to reflect more about the nature of those who would attempt to rekindle the flame and how, at least with the DLCs, it suggested there might be another path beyond and between the flame and the dark

But DS3 did this in both the base game and in the DLC? It clearly wasn't just about relighting the flame.
DS3 was from start to finish about rekindling the flame. Even the intro tells you about the 4 lords that refused to do their duty. It's only while playing the game that you unlock the alternative paths of ending it or becoming the dark lord but only if you do some optional stuff while DS2 is from the start framed differently. The DLCs yes, they take you in a different direction about the Painted World.

I will admit that DS3's End of Fire ending is my favorite one in the whole series. Turning your back on the Throne in DS2 is excellent, but I have a soft spot for the Firekeeper from DS3. :love:

Hard agree on the End of Fire being my favorite ending as well (daft firekepper "can you hear me?" aside). The community preference for Ursurpation is weird to me but does make sense if:
- One believes all of the retarded souls community head canon.
- You consider the tastes of the average reddit/wikia degenerate. Of course being the edgelord of the hollows would appeal the most.
 

Ventidius

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
552
So, I just beat Rykard - who is a Shardbearer - and I am left wondering: is this guy optional? Because he was completely out of the way up in Mt. Gelmir and I had already progressed into the Farum before deciding to sweep up Gelmir and finding out there was a whole Legacy Dungeon type thing in there. I'm starting to think this game is not going to be like DS3 where you had to take out every lord of cinder. Can anyone tell me, without spoilers, if any of the Shardbearers can be missed by the ending; and if so, does that affect the ending?

Also, as a side note, very odd that they thought it'd be a good idea to have another Yhorm-like boss in there, I can't imagine the feedback they got for the latter was very good. Well, at least he wasn't as annoying as Yhorm.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
19,192
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Are you people able to summon human players for coop?

Every summon sign I touch gives me "Unable to summon" errors.

You're talking about the place before Radahn, aren't you.

Just went through this purgatory myself, it's just a shitton of desperate people competing for a relative handful of sunbros willing to help with this cancerous fight. You have to be quick, REAL quick.
 

Curratum

Guest
Hot take - Radan is just shitty RNG. Whether you beat him or not depends entirely on whether he decides to one-shot you with his purple orbs or unavoidable 3-hit chain that connects at the exact frame your wakeup animation ends, because that game buffers inputs out the ass and I sure as fuck am getting hit on wakeup instead of rolling, frame-perfect.

One day, I'll get lucky and get a bleed / frost / stance break to proc exactly when he's about to pull off one of those and I'll kill him.

I'm just afraid by the time this happens, I may have deleted the game first.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
14,202
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I tend to find this guy's takes interesting since he goes so deep into whatever he's reviewing and is usually fairly balanced. Some minor spoilers in the review if you haven't played the game or have played little, otherwise there probably isn't anything in here that you're unaware of.

 

deem

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
421
Tonight I went to see Batman and they played the Elden Ring advert before the movie. Bizarre, I don't think I have seen a video game being advertised in cinema before. Looks like a cool game, should I check it out?
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,994
So, I just beat Rykard - who is a Shardbearer - and I am left wondering: is this guy optional? Because he was completely out of the way up in Mt. Gelmir and I had already progressed into the Farum before deciding to sweep up Gelmir and finding out there was a whole Legacy Dungeon type thing in there. I'm starting to think this game is not going to be like DS3 where you had to take out every lord of cinder. Can anyone tell me, without spoilers, if any of the Shardbearers can be missed by the ending; and if so, does that affect the ending?

Also, as a side note, very odd that they thought it'd be a good idea to have another Yhorm-like boss in there, I can't imagine the feedback they got for the latter was very good. Well, at least he wasn't as annoying as Yhorm.

Optional. Malenia as well.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,994
You see this guy. He is just a regular mob in late game dungeons :P

C889B87138F08DC30A86ECF88E2A8E1097410287
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,994
I beat the game. It seems that I was just tired and it took me 30 min to deal with the end game bosses but I won without magic bullshit, just mano a mano.
cool boss with two forms.
C67E9A81198270BE729DA778EEA96C97AA63D332


the most anime fight from the entire game
38950E824C9A59BBDA8447A8CBAA6C15DE45C7A4


31BA857409644CD6A050D180A80AC41E6FE20261


radagon and his random aoe attacks
BAD0C0269089EE6F085FE34DFEFD131D79316BD1


last boss has one magic attack which is absolutely cancer. i died like 10 times because of that homing missiles attack.
69E6E476037F3B15B43014A7B84ED1EF08713A17


F6A5EFCDA46B4DFCA1210A21082F1EC071309DFC


just fyi atm only 0.3% of the players have this achievement: Elden Lord
9BFDCACA9E34278EC03EA2E437C82F6C1EECDEAE

bonus
i did remember these bitches.
C18A82AE18CC9A09D682E6D989F1BF6D755B9306


they drop good stuff
A5081231684897C90826CD7F26D7F21D9BEA3DA6
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,928
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
I beat the game. It seems that I was just tired and it took me 30 min to deal with the end game bosses but I won without magic bullshit, just mano a mano.
cool boss with two forms.
C67E9A81198270BE729DA778EEA96C97AA63D332


the most anime fight from the entire game
38950E824C9A59BBDA8447A8CBAA6C15DE45C7A4


31BA857409644CD6A050D180A80AC41E6FE20261


radagon and his random aoe attacks
BAD0C0269089EE6F085FE34DFEFD131D79316BD1


last boss has one magic attack which is absolutely cancer. i died like 10 times because of that homing missiles attack.
69E6E476037F3B15B43014A7B84ED1EF08713A17


F6A5EFCDA46B4DFCA1210A21082F1EC071309DFC


just fyi atm only 0.3% of the players have this achievement: Elden Lord
9BFDCACA9E34278EC03EA2E437C82F6C1EECDEAE

bonus
i did remember these bitches.
C18A82AE18CC9A09D682E6D989F1BF6D755B9306


they drop good stuff
A5081231684897C90826CD7F26D7F21D9BEA3DA6
Where would you rank the experience among the other Souls games, toro?
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,994
I know it sucks but I should say that the last boss fights are unfortunately designed to be done with a summon.

Foreskin Duo is the gate boss to force the player to use them. That being said the Mimic tear is absolutely necessary.

Also the late game mobs are insane, absolutely insane: I would die in 2 hits at 40+ Vigor using one of the best armors in game.

There is no point in complaining about this but I think the late game is unbalanced. I mean the bullshit is off the chart.

In retrospect I've judged the game too harshly but the truth is that I'm burned out. 96 hours and end level 120.

Edit: some dark souls streamers are doing these bosses alone therefore it is possible to beat them without summons but those streamers have thousands of hours in this kind of games.
 
Last edited:

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,994
Where would you rank the experience among the other Souls games, toro?

The game is all over the place: there are brilliant moments and awful moments.

Level design is on par with DaS1 and it's basically the reason why I finished the game.

There are memorable boss fights but then you have Radan or Foreskin Duo which are unacceptable.

I would be honest and say that I don't know. I would say on par with DaS2 because it's good but it's also flawed.

Just one thing: When I finished the previous games - almost immediately - I started another run. Because of its size and stuttering I'm not looking forward to start another run too soon.
 

curds

Magister
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
1,098
I would be honest and say that I don't know. I would say on par with DaS2 because it's good but it's also flawed.

Just one thing: When I finished the previous games - almost immediately - I started another run. Because of its size and stuttering I'm not looking forward to start another run too soon.
Well said. Game is good but not amazing. I also cannot imagine myself playing through this again any time soon. Or any game longer than 40 hours for that matter.
 

perfectslumbers

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
1,202
Did anyone said ITT the Radahn fight will be "controversial"?
That was me, sorry for calling this games Bed of Chaos controversial when I should've said "made me suicidal."

I'm quite curious if a "true," secret ending will be found for Elden Ring if you collect every single rune, afaik nobody has done that yet.
 

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