From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lutte]

Yes, you're too lazy. Hence, "easy mode". Wtf is so hard to understand about that?

how is it easy for lazy people when I have to spend literall hours to get everything together? The one shot build needs 60 int. You nead to reach gelmir which isnt easily possible ( I tried) the fastest way is blocked by a boss you cant pebble away at level 20 or whatever. Every of theese easy strategies usually needs a more or less long setup, so if you do that you could just as well play the game normally.

This is all just meta gaming shite anyway, in my playthrough I hadn't gotten the mixed physick tool for FP until late because reaching this area I was already tired of the copypasted erdtree fights so I just skipped that one and I'm sure a lot of people playing mages or just INT build in general might not notice this exists before they get spoiled in a thread like this.

 

[Curratum]

Magic isnt "easy mode". I tried to start as a mage and got some results but opted for using my shitty club upgrading it and clubbing through the game until I changed the weapon (after I could reskill). How is it easy mode if you have to gallop through half the world to get a bucket list of items which then help against bosses you could easily whack with the sword in half the time. The only spell I really missed was the light because I could use it and not switch away my shield, I stull used the pebble to maybe pull stuff. Magic is spending 10 hours trying to solve a problem because youre too lazy to invest the 3 hours it takes to force it because youre not as good as someone who forces it in 1.

The whole beelining to X place to grab an item vital to your build was a thing since we all went for Astora's straight sword and the drake shield in DS1. In ER the travel time is just...longer. But the time you spend assembling a handful of items (I think I spent like 2 hours grabbing stuff) saves you a TON of time later on. With my new Magic + Stormveil build I've noticed a significant drop in overall difficulty. That and I'm making liberal usage of player summons (gotta get my money's worth).

but when you summon X in the arena, the boss HP doesn't increase. You're neither here, nor there. It's either unfair balls to the wall bullshit if you solo, or complete stompage and full-on easy mode with summons. There is no real balance, no "baseline" standard for difficulty.

Not true, boss HP definitely increases dramatically with summons. It's quite noticeable in the Rennala fight, where you can take down half her HP solo, but can only take a quarter if your coop partner doesn't know WTF he is supposed to do in that fight. I've been having a bit of frustration with coop due to the sheer amount of utterly incompetent hosts. I'm currently preferring AI allies over humans when I need a summon, lel.

Yes, you're too lazy. Hence, "easy mode". Wtf is so hard to understand about that?

how is it easy for lazy people when I have to spend literall hours to get everything together? The one shot build needs 60 int. You nead to reach gelmir which isnt easily possible ( I tried) the fastest way is blocked by a boss you cant pebble away at level 20 or whatever. Every of theese easy strategies usually needs a more or less long setup, so if you do that you could just as well play the game normally.

Just take the Meteorite Staff + Rocksling and you're good to go. Later on add Monveil and you're all set, you can grab the other stuff normally. It's what I did.

I meant spirit ashes summons that you summon INTO the arena, after the boss has spawned with its HP bar already...

Why would you summon a random real player when you can just double up as yourself and have two of the same weapon art and +2X weapon in the fight? It doesn't make ANY sense in this game to summon humans.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

What!

 

[Lutte]

Just take the Meteorite Staff + Rocksling and you're good to go. Later on add Monveil and you're all set, you can grab the other stuff normally. It's what I did.

I played a large part of the game with the uchigatana, then respecced to INT build and moonveil, it's a better path than starting with a mage. I tried using rocksling and a few other spells to see how they're like after respeccing and.. lol, no.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

how is it easy for lazy people when I have to spend literall hours to get everything together?

It's easier than melee combat for someone who doesn't want to learn melee. That's my whole point. And no, it doesn't take 10 hours.

I see we're having several arguments here:

1. the people who don't get that I mean that magic is easier when it comes to not having to use l33t button mashing skills to squash most bosses.
2. the people who feel personally insulted that I think magic is easier because they know the location of the OP sword of doom and can roll/dodge their way to it at level -10.
3. the people who don't want to admit that they've been playing on easy mode the whole game by using either magic or ashes of war.
4. the people who think mage builds are only viable after looking up a guide online.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Do you really need to? Am I the only one that got trapped over to the meteorite staff area (despite reading the warnings posted by others) without a guide? It's right by the starting area.

You're linking comet azur videos and talking about going to grab it to one shot bosses. How is that not metagaming?

Or you could just get on a horse and spam the attack button.

Open world bosses are all extremely easy and trivialised by the horse whether you're a melee or magic build

 

[Curratum]

+25 uchigatana with ~45 DEX and a +5 DEX talisman. Damage to bosses is still piss-poor compared to just using weapon arts. The entire game is just not fucking made to be played as a melee character and it's infuriating.

There is no getting good, there is just rolling around and spamming weapon arts at bosses. It's a little sad to see that From's games culminating in this, but it is what it is.

I wonder how many hours it will take for people to wake up from the honeymoon period.

 

[Eyestabber]

Do you really need to? Am I the only one that got trapped over to the meteorite staff area (despite reading the warnings posted by others)? It's right by the starting area.

Wait, what? Aeonia is COMPLETELY off the beaten path for early game. I think you might be confusing locations, Meteorite Staff is located here.

Using a guide is even more blasphemous than summons. You keep trying and figure things on your own.

I would normally agree, but then I remember why I started doing it: being stuck in a loop against a boss because SOMEONE thought it would be a great idea to remove homeward bone from the game. It's stupid, a game that features "exploration" as its main selling point and then removes all forms of counterplay to the very obvious "walk into a place you're not prepared to deal with" issue. WE NEED HOMEWARD BONES BACK!

Open world bosses are all extremely easy and trivialised by the horse whether you're a melee or magic build

Until you get hit ONCE and they one shot your horse and stunlock you for the next 666 hours, or one more hit, whichever kills you first.

I played a large part of the game with the uchigatana, then respecced to INT build and moonveil, it's a better path than starting with a mage. I tried using rocksling and a few other spells to see how they're like after respeccing and.. lol, no.

I started Prisoner, went for rocksling + staff + flask upgrades ASAP, then used rocks to trivialize early game bosses. Godrick was the first real challenge, much harder fight than with my claymore. Then I used the mage guy's rapier and later switched to moonveil once I was strong enough to take down the Magma Wyrm guarding it. I'm like 80% of the way I did with my claymore guy but with 20% of the time played.

 

[Lutte]

+25 uchigatana with ~45 DEX and a +5 DEX talisman. Damage to bosses is still piss-poor compared to just using weapon arts. The entire game is just not fucking made to be played as a melee character and it's infuriating.

There is no getting good, there is just rolling around and spamming weapon arts at bosses. It's a little sad to see that From's games culminating in this, but it is what it is.

I wonder how many hours it will take for people to wake up from the honeymoon period.

Have you tried one of the bleed related ashes of war? you don't really need to spec into arcane for them to be effective.

 

[Cromwell]

+25 uchigatana with ~45 DEX and a +5 DEX talisman.

Dont know about the arts part since I used the Bloodhound sword or whatever its called from the first gaol until I switched back to int because I have now the Moonlight sword and the moon katana. But the fact that you only need one somber stone per level which are easy enough to find if you just run around, instead of 10? normal stones of every level with a normal weapons probably means you shouldnt use standard weapons.

 

[Lutte]

Standard weapons are still pretty good, though the ashes of war you can access and throw in them are less OP than some of the unique weapon stuff. I dual wielded Moonveil with my original Uchigatana to bleed spam bosses when they got staggered. Two katana in power stance being l1 spammed absolutely shreds bosses.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

You're linking comet azur videos and talking about going to grab it to one shot bosses. How is that not metagaming?

I linked to that after someone brought up a separate argument, saying that the moonveil etc were far more of an easy mode than magic.

Which I guess is kind of funny considering that Curratum is complaining about weapon arts being the only good damage and said weapons are basically solely reliant on weapon arts.

 

[Cromwell]

Standard weapons are still pretty good, though the ashes of war you can access and throw in them are less OP than some of the unique weapon stuff.

my point was more that it is harder to keep them upgraded in comparision to the special weapons.

 

[Lutte]

Ah, yeah, well the uchigatana was unfortunately the only weapon I got to +25 out of the regular too. I would have wanted to experiment with, say, something like scimitars and bleed ashes.

 

[Riddler]

Perhaps I've not gotten far enough in but I don't really understand all this complaining about ashes. So far I've not needed them for any boss except radahn and for him they weren't even available.

The issue with difficulty in this game is not the ashes (those are just straight up turn off your brain mode), the issue is the open world leading to you often being either being dramatically under or over leveled for content, after the initial area.

How do you craft a balanced experience when the expected power level of the player can vary so dramatically? The answer is that you can't.

The open world was a massive mistake.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Wait, what? Aeonia is COMPLETELY off the beaten path for early game. I think you might be confusing locations, Meteorite Staff is located here.

I know. But there's a trapped chest in the Limgrave ruins that takes you straight there (other side of the swamp but still). I had to explore almost the entire area just to get out once I get teleported there because the fast travel wouldn't work.

Just run around on horseback and try not to die long enough in an area. You'll get some exploration done.

 

[Zizka]

I would normally agree, but then I remember why I started doing it:

I was being a bit facetious. My point is that by using a guide, you take away the enjoyment from figuring out things by yourself. Just like beating a boss without summoning is more rewarding when you do achieve it. I don’t even think that’s debatable. Achieving something easy isn’t very rewarding for the human psyche.

This being said, I get that some people don’t want to practice the same boss for hours and days and just want to move on so they look up guides and take out their summoning bells. I think that’s fine. Gaming is a hobby and should be fun and it can get tedious to be stuck at the same boss for ages.

It doesn’t invalidate that if you do manage on your own, it’s more rewarding.

 

[perfectslumbers]

I think melee builds are good but r1 is dead. Jump attacks with heavy weapons and guard counters with great shields are very good, as well as power stancing with bleed/frost or to apply weapon buffs twice.

 

[Curratum]

I think melee builds are good but r1 is dead. Jump attacks with heavy weapons and guard counters with great shields are very good, as well as power stancing with bleed/frost or to apply weapon buffs twice.

So melee builds are good, but "only if you play those two"? :D

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

The issue with difficulty in this game is not the ashes (those are just straight up turn off your brain mode), the issue is the open world leading to you often being either being dramatically under or over leveled for content, after the initial area.

Isn't that what we on the Codex like to see?

I like being able to explore the map in Fallout, even if it means I die to supermutants.

How do you craft a balanced experience when the expected power level of the player can vary so dramatically? The answer is that you can't.

Here we go again...

 

[Lutte]

Jump attacks with heavy weapons

You don't need heavy weapons. You will stagger with power stanced katanas in jump attacks too. It prolly works with most similar sized weapons like longswords, smaller hammers etc.

 

[perfectslumbers]

only if you play those two

I mentioned more than two builds! But yeah the classic medium weight light attack builds from past games are pretty weak imo. I always played souls games by two handing a curved sword but I think that's pretty weak in this game.

You don't need heavy weapons. You will stagger with power stanced katanas in jump attacks too. It prolly works with most similar sized weapons like longswords, smaller hammers etc.

Ah okay, well either way spamming jump attack seems good. Stance breaking is very powerful in this game.

 

[Eyestabber]

But there's a trapped chest in the Limgrave ruins that takes you straight there

OH YEAH, the one that takes you into the mines, so you can have some fun getting shredded by homing micro missiles. That one? Yeah, I ran too, but it happened with my melee guy, so I wasn't looking for a staff.

Jump attacks with heavy weapons and guard counters with great shields are very good, as well as power stancing with bleed/frost or to apply weapon buffs twice.

Yeah, jump attacks have i-frames up the wazoo for some reason.

The open world was a massive mistake.

I don't think so. Planning a weird route to best suit your build's needs have always been a fun part of DS for me and something I utterly missed in DS3. The open world feels like a natural step in that direction. I just think they overdid it in terms of size. And it's not just lategame. Take Liurnia, for instance. The ruined town before the academy is MASSIVE and full of nothing but trash mobs. Did it REALLY have to be that big?

power stanced katanas

Katanas seem to have much better hitboxes than most other weapons, both on foot and horseback. My claymore kept missing bosses at point blank. That doesn't happen with Moonveil. Honestly, I think the game should've implemented some soft tracking for the player when locked in. Missing gigantic bosses at point blank while swinging gigantic weapons is GIGANTICLY silly.

 

[Riddler]

The issue with difficulty in this game is not the ashes (those are just straight up turn off your brain mode), the issue is the open world leading to you often being either being dramatically under or over leveled for content, after the initial area.

Isn't that what we on the Codex like to see?

I like being able to explore the map in Fallout, even if it means I die to supermutants.

How do you craft a balanced experience when the expected power level of the player can vary so dramatically? The answer is that you can't.

Here we go again...

Games are designed around different things. FS games are very much designed around gameplay, challenge and local exploration.

The first two of those are broken by the open world.

Fallout by comparison neither has challenge or any gameplay to speak of, it's a completely different genre of game.

 

[Lutte]

perfectslumbers
IMHO STR heavy look like utter garbage, they get completely outclassed by power stancing anything from the dex types (or int/faith scaling but dex-style).

You would expect ultra great swords to stagger much faster, but it's not happening, maybe one hit less on average than power stancing weapons when you do jump attacks on either builds. On the other hand, bleed man.. ooooh sweet bleed. Even if a bleed UGS existed you could never apply that much in the time frame of l1 spams.

By making bleed work on every fucking thing (maybe one or two things aren't vulnerable? I haven't noticed) and be so effective, they made non-bleed weapons look thoroughly unappealing.