From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Lim-Dûl]

Name one company that designs games with better combat than that of FS titles, I dare you.

CAPCOM. Dragon's Dogma combat > Souls combat

Nioh combat also shits on Souls combat. FS strengths are atmosphere and level design, not combat.

This becomes more pronounced as they continue to push further towards flashy and faster-paced action combat. But I liked slower DeS and DS1 combat. They were perfect for those games.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Would you prefer to fight bosses you can circle around safely? Bosses with 3-5 different attacks that are heavily telegraphed?

If that means sacrificing difficulty to get a fair match, then yes, absolutely, every day, all day.
Fairness > difficulty.
I detailed in this thread, many many pages ago about the cheapness they added to the bosses. I stand by every word that I said. These bosses are DkS 3 level of difficulty. They had no idea how to further increase it so they added the bullshit. And it worked. People were like "ah, muh open world and pretty graphics, and spectacular bosses". That's one of the problems, spectacle over substance.

Adding spammable arena wide AoEs which some cover the entire thing in fire/blood/whatever, DkS2 levels of tracking, insanely delayed attacks, almost 1 frame attacks, teleportation/jumping all over the arena, bosses cancelling animations as well as mobs, bosses having almost all attacks be 180-360 degree arc (which when combined with AoEs, 180° attacks and extreme tracking makes positioning a fucking not matter anymore), no difference whatsoever between skinny and fat bosses and both move with the same speed, they attack with the same speed, they fly, jump, teleport etc equally as good, they read inputs (how is it a problem? did you not watch the videos? At the very least they should react to the animation start not button press.), they have tons of health, endless combos (fucking Morgott has literally a 15 hit combo), absolute bullshit attacks like the infamous Malenia's WFD (can't imagine how something like that ended up being in the game.....oh wait, I can, it requires whoever designed the game to actually play it and see what needs changing, adjusting, removing etc. Which clearly didn't happen. Even the mighty Memehackzaky himself said he had to delegate a lot more to others than usual.) And playing a slow character in a fast game sucks. Either make everything slow or everything fast.
It's incredible that the same company that made Sekiro also happened to make this....thing.

circle around safely

How many players on their first time playing these games knew about this tactic? You assume that everyone played like that. I don't believe that, in fact I believe that people watched speedrunners and learned all sort of things from them: skips, running past mobs, AI exploits, rushing certain items that make parts of the game easier and so on.
Sure not all of them did, some discovered this on their own, but that knowledge wasn't widespread especially after launch.

in a time where all we get are products.

Literally its only redeeming quality.

 

[ferratilis]

Name one company that designs games with better combat than that of FS titles, I dare you.

CAPCOM. Dragon's Dogma combat > Souls combat

Ok, fair enough. But that's not what I had in mind, since we all know that only the Japanese can design satisfying combat in this day and age. Nioh also has satisfying combat (even though it's not my cup of tea because it gets repetitive and lacks the amazing level design that FS is known for), no point arguing which is better. My comment was aimed more at blind FS haters who can't name a single Western game made in the last 10 years that has better combat.

 

[Lim-Dûl]

Adding spammable arena wide AoEs which some cover the entire thing in fire/blood/whatever, DkS2 levels of tracking, insanely delayed attacks, almost 1 frame attacks, teleportation/jumping all over the arena, bosses cancelling animations as well as mobs, bosses having almost all attacks be 180-360 degree arc (which when combined with AoEs, 180° attacks and extreme tracking makes positioning a fucking not matter anymore), no difference whatsoever between skinny and fat bosses and both move with the same speed, they attack with the same speed, they fly, jump, teleport etc equally as good, they read inputs (how is it a problem? did you not watch the videos? At the very least they should react to the animation start not button press.), they have tons of health, endless combos (fucking Morgott has literally a 15 hit combo), absolute bullshit attacks like the infamous Malenia's WFD (can't imagine how something like that ended up being in the game.....oh wait, I can, it requires whoever designed the game to actually play it and see what needs changing, adjusting, removing etc. Which clearly didn't happen. Even the mighty Memehackzaky himself said he had to delegate a lot more to others than usual.) And playing a slow character in a fast game sucks. Either make everything slow or everything fast.

They focused too much on designing enemies that outsmart/outskill/outstamina the player, at the cost of making intuitive fights that feel satisfying.

 

[Multidirectional]

This becomes more pronounced as they continue to push further towards flashy and faster-paced action combat. But I liked slower DeS and DS1 combat. They were perfect for those games.

Yes, have our character stuck in slow Souls mode when bosses are playing Devil May Cry. Truly enjoyable challenge. I did enjoy combat In DS1 and 2 because enemies were not much faster than me in them. And Sekiro, while not having build variety and having fairly simplistic combat when compared to better melee fighting games, at least didn't feel unfair. Yes, you die much faster than bosses in that game but at the same time their moves are easier to read and damage isn't that hard to avoid.

 

[Lim-Dûl]

This becomes more pronounced as they continue to push further towards flashy and faster-paced action combat. But I liked slower DeS and DS1 combat. They were perfect for those games.

Yes, have our character stuck in slow Souls mode when bosses are playing Devil May Cry. Truly enjoyable challenge. I did enjoy combat In DS1 and 2 because enemies were not much faster than me in them. And Sekiro, while not having build variety and having fairly simplistic combat when compared to better melee fighting games, at least didn't feel unfair. Yes, you die much faster than bosses in that game but at the same time their moves are easier to read and damage isn't that hard to avoid.

Were they using leftover animations from Sekiro for this game, or what could explain the weird disparity between player character speed and boss speed?

 

[Multidirectional]

Were they using leftover animations from Sekiro for this game, or what could explain the weird disparity between player character speed and boss speed?

The only Sekiro boss that reminds me of later ER bosses is Demon of Hatred, and that's the only boss fight in that game I disliked. Precisely because it plays like a Souls boss and not Sekiro boss. A big fuck that jumps around the arena with ease and spams AOE attacks. Suddenly you are forced to turn into dodge fag for that fight. But it's an optional troll encounter there, in ER you are actually forced to go through this type of bullshit.

 

[Silverfish]

Dark Souls 3 is a shit game altogether, and is worse than Elden Ring in every possible way. The only worthwile boss it has are the two princes.

I'm not too high on DS3 either, but it does have a better lineup of bosses than you're giving it credit for. Lorian / Lothric is a highlight, but Nameless King, the demon princes from The Ringed City and Friede are right there with them. The gimmick bosses get shit on a lot, but for as repetitious as the rest of the bosses can be, at least they mix things up.

CAPCOM. Dragon's Dogma combat > Souls combat

Dragon's Dogma, Devil May Cry, Maximo, Viewtiful Joe. Capcom struggle to release action games that don't have great combat (PN03 aside).

My comment was aimed more at blind FS haters who can't name a single Western game made in the last 10 years that has better combat.

Kingdoms of Amalur. Don't get me wrong, the game is shit in every other respect, but the combat rips.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Kingdoms of Amalur. Don't get me wrong, the game is shit in every other respect, but the combat rips.

I don't remember much about the combat in that game but it was very simple. Fun though.

 

[Nathir]

Would you prefer to fight bosses you can circle around safely? Bosses with 3-5 different attacks that are heavily telegraphed?

If that means sacrificing difficulty to get a fair match, then yes, absolutely, every day, all day.
Fairness > difficulty.
I detailed in this thread, many many pages ago about the cheapness they added to the bosses. I stand by every word that I said. These bosses are DkS 3 level of difficulty. They had no idea how to further increase it so they added the bullshit. And it worked. People were like "ah, muh open world and pretty graphics, and spectacular bosses". That's one of the problems, spectacle over substance.

And who decides what is fair? You? The only move that I think is unfair and cheap is Waterfowl. Because it is not intuitive in how you are supposed to dodge it. Even after dying and dodging it multiple times I still had no idea how exactly it works. And if the answer to the first flurry is supposed to be running away, that is not always possible due to positioning. Other than that I didn't find a single thing that I would call cheap. Maybe the duo crucible knights? That's 1 move and 1 fight. The animations of the bosses are mostly great and give you a good indication of when to dodge. Spectacle over substance? How does a fight like Nameless King have more substance than Godfrey or Mohg for instance? It's the same fundamental system.

Adding spammable arena wide AoEs which some cover the entire thing in fire/blood/whatever, DkS2 levels of tracking, insanely delayed attacks, almost 1 frame attacks, teleportation/jumping all over the arena, bosses cancelling animations as well as mobs, bosses having almost all attacks be 180-360 degree arc (which when combined with AoEs, 180° attacks and extreme tracking makes positioning a fucking not matter anymore), no difference whatsoever between skinny and fat bosses and both move with the same speed, they attack with the same speed, they fly, jump, teleport etc equally as good, they read inputs (how is it a problem? did you not watch the videos? At the very least they should react to the animation start not button press.), they have tons of health, endless combos (fucking Morgott has literally a 15 hit combo), absolute bullshit attacks like the infamous Malenia's WFD (can't imagine how something like that ended up being in the game.....oh wait, I can, it requires whoever designed the game to actually play it and see what needs changing, adjusting, removing etc. Which clearly didn't happen. Even the mighty Memehackzaky himself said he had to delegate a lot more to others than usual.) And playing a slow character in a fast game sucks. Either make everything slow or everything fast.
It's incredible that the same company that made Sekiro also happened to make this....thing.

I fail to see how any of the things you listed are objectively an issue. God forbid learning patterns, instead of spamming rolls. The only reason tracking was ever considered a problem in DS2 was because of ADP and people getting clipped by the Pursuer despite "dodging". ER doesn't have that issue. You can just pay attention and not spam roll? Or use a shield, they are crazy good here. The only two moves that are way too delayed, to the point they look dumb are Margits overhead, and Radagons grab. 2 moves. Your character isn't all that slow imo. Definitely faster than in DS1 and DS2, probably on par with DS3, but stamina is never a problem. You can sneak in a lot of attacks and always dodge. ER rewards playing aggressively more than other DS games. Encounters feel like a proper dance most of the time, instead of bosses being helpless. Sorry but all I'm getting from your post is that the game was too hard for you, and you insist of argumenting this as some kind of cheap, bad design.

circle around safely

How many players on their first time playing these games knew about this tactic? You assume that everyone played like that. I don't believe that, in fact I believe that people watched speedrunners and learned all sort of things from them: skips, running past mobs, AI exploits, rushing certain items that make parts of the game easier and so on.
Sure not all of them did, some discovered this on their own, but that knowledge wasn't widespread especially after launch.

Not many, but that's not the point. I was talking here about older players, not new players. Like I said, the reason they keep upping the pace is so that older players don't sleepwalk through every encounter. I did miss more puzzle/gimmick bosses though. They would have been a perfect fit for ER.

 

[Child of Malkav]

And who decides what is fair? You?

No, not me. They have their previous games as "standards", while flawed, clearly, they provide a base, a direction. Continue with that, otherwise then they just make these games for difficulty only (and we see how they understand it judging by what they added) which also means they're creatively bankrupt.

Other than that I didn't find a single thing that I would call cheap.

Everything I mentioned in that big paragraph falls into that category. With the exception of 3 bosses (6 fights) almost every other boss has at least 4, 5 of those elements. When I finished the game I felt like I fought the same boss, just under a different model and name every time. It's dumb. This is the first time I actually noticed stuff like this.

God forbid learning patterns

Yeah, every criticism thrown at this game is like blasphemy to you people. Other than git gud, skill issue, pattern memorization and other reddit tier insult, what else is there?

You can just pay attention and not spam roll?

I play it melee only + dodge, just like I did in previous games, then on ng+ I switch it up. Only when playing "traditionally (CQC)" they become issues. Sure I could have and I did use OP weapon arts, mimic tear here and there for fun or for testing purposes, I use tons of spells, not many consumables except for sleeping arrows for the Duo Foreskin. I experimented a lot. That's not the problem. Spamming rolls is out of the question. I don't do it most of the time but this wonderfully designed game also has input buffering as well so there's that. Learning, memorization of the patterns has always been the core of this system when it comes to boss fights. You speak like I don't engage at all with this game. I did but unlike some, I also see problems that weren't there before.

The only reason tracking was ever considered a problem in DS2 was because of ADP and people getting clipped by the Pursuer despite "dodging".

Tracking existed in DkS2 regardless of how much ADP you had, the enemies tracked the same. ADP determined the number of iframes, so you had to be more precise with your evasion.

I fail to see how any of the things you listed are objectively an issue.

Taken individually they're not (exceptions: input reading, long combos, movement and attack speed are high regardless of the weight or size of the boss (compare the Duo fight with O&S for example where one was slow and the other was fast, which in turn dictated tactics and approaches)) but the bosses spam them, multiple attacks can overlap and worst of all: every boss has them.

ER doesn't have that issue.

Blatant defense mode. There was a thread on 4chan with plenty of webms showing it. The tracking part that is, the part where you take damage after you exit the roll animation is a thing that's present in ALL Souls games. Including ER. Even without those recordings just watch a side by side video of the games. The tracking is the same. Especially for bosses.

Encounters feel like a proper dance most of the time, instead of bosses being helpless.

Roll and attack, the same it's ever been.
Bosses being helpless? That's what you call them in previous games? Once you gain knowledge of the mechanics every game becomes at least 50% easier on future replays.

Sorry but all I'm getting from your post is that the game was too hard for you, and you insist of argumenting this as some kind of cheap, bad design.

It is bad design. Shit like this wasn't common or widespread in previous games. Bosses usually had one or at most 2 of the types of things I mentioned in my post. And they didn't spam them. But it's understandable, they have nowhere to go difficulty wise and they do have a reputation to uphold so, it was either turn the game into a pure fighting reflex based game, or add cheapness to it or make Sekiro 2 or another game like Sekiro. Going back to the old style was never an option. Future games will probably be straight up anime crap. Again, nowhere to go. DLC for this game will make Malenia feel fair by comparison.

Spectacle over substance? How does a fight like Nameless King have more substance than Godfrey or Mohg for instance? It's the same fundamental system.

The system is the same, it is Dark Souls 4 after all or big Dark Souls 3 with a horse, but some of the attacks are meant to give you this impression of epicness and are spammed to make sure you get the point and it gets very tiresome after a while.
Some examples: Fire Giant 2nd phase he erupts like a volcano raining fire down of you, has a face on his abdomen spitting fire on you while underneath it, spams columns of fire, spams fireballs....like I get it. Looks cool, but don't spam that shit.
Radahn, conceived as a raid boss with free NPCs assisting you (fighting the boss for you), does the meteor attack (very cool and he doesn't spam it) then starts flying all over the place, does the giant AoE pull towards him, floats rocks out of the ground to serve as projectiles, throws black holes at you, after he dies aliens invade....see where I'm getting at? Not to mention the lore of the guy, keeping stars and constellations at bay with his mere willpower.
Rennala, first phase is meh, 2nd phase a complete light show, while cool, that's all there is. Oh and she summons.
Mohg. Blood everywhere, phase transition where the screen turns red then blood that's on fire, everywhere. He also gains wings and charges you. Not much by comparison with other bosses.
Godfrey. AoE spam, has a huge lion attached to him, has an attack where he plants his axe in the ground, pushes it with his foot and pulls a wide line of energy together with earth chunks out of it, 2nd phase is just WWE tier material, grab attacks out the ass, slow motion on one attack, pulls an earth chunk that's an arena wide AoE. Wrestling match.
Radagon And Elden Beast pure light spectacle. Elden Beast arena also meant to get that wow reaction.
Red Wolf of Radagon, just Sif flying everywhere but this time can do magic projectiles and a sword.
Godfrey, disgusting in appearance and shocking transition to phase 2. Plus a dragon head.
Ancestor Spirit. Relaxing fight.
Astel, best looking boss in the game together with Elden Beast. Astel is actually fun to fight though and has nebula attacks with star dust attached to various attacks, the grab it does, the meteorite strike, the teleportation, the levitation/grab attack, cool spectacle.
Crucible Knights, wings, tail attacks, light show.
Placidusax.....I don't even. Lightning, teleportation, lightning claws, lightning strikes, lightning AoE etc. It looks cool. The one thing all these have in common.
Maliketh, not much to say.
Morgott, spawning light weapons non stop, phase transition is digusting. Not much here either.
Tree Spirits, I don't even know what's happening most of the time.
The undead dragon Lich something, also like Placidusax.

I could go on but I don't have all night to go through every boss and I don't even remember most of them. As I haven't played this since April. I'll look at a wiki, maybe. It's just weird that they doubled down of this aspect so much especially when there are other issues to deal with.

Not many, but that's not the point.

Then don't generalize.

they keep upping the pace

Yeah AKA adding bullshit. They have nowhere else to go higher with this system unless they create a new one. Since that requires effort well then, cheap shit is like you said, way easier to do.

 

[Silverfish]

And who decides what is fair? You?

Yes, which is why I've always defended Bed of Chaos.

 

[Ivan]

Any DLC teasers? Also, have any patches/mods addressed the performance?

 

[Wunderbar]

Any DLC teasers?

yeah there was a short teaser a few days ago, can't find it anymore tho.

Basically, the DLC will add four huge open-world locations into the game, complete with new caves, mines, dungeons and crypts where you find new exciting items such as summoning ashes, ashes of war, and spirit ashes. The enemies you'll encounter are going to be grafted scions, hawks with metal talons, monstrous crows and giant enemy crabs. The story will involve time-travel, and the final boss will be young Malenia and the peak of her powers - she will be able to use waterfowl dance every five seconds, and during her second phase she'll summon three ulcerated tree spirits.

Also, have any patches/mods addressed the performance?

i heard the last patch improved the performance. Not by much (+3-5 fps), but still.

 

[Ivan]

the final boss will be young Malenia and the peak of her powers

at

 

[ERYFKRAD]

the final boss will be young Malenia and the peak of her powers

at

No, pretty sure her peak is its own thing.

 

[mediocrepoet]

the final boss will be young Malenia and the peak of her powers

at

No, pretty sure her peak is its own thing.

I'd be curious to explore her peaks before her anatomy all rotted off and just left prosthetics and scaly bits.

 

[Morgoth]

Elden Ring Shipped 16.6 Million Units Globally as of June​

Japanese website GameBiz reports today that Bandai Namco's financial results for the first quarter of the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023, are up 21.5% on a year-over-year basis, mostly thanks to Elden Ring. The report also includes an update on Elden Ring sales, with shipments reaching 16.6 million units as of June. This means that FromSoftware's game shipped 3.2 million units in the last quarter, as May's report confirmed that 13.4 million units had been shipped then.

From's biggest, most beautiful, yet also worst game that I'll never finish is humiliating Western game devs once more.

 

[fork]

Name one company that designs games with better combat than that of FS titles, I dare you.

CAPCOM. Dragon's Dogma combat > Souls combat

[...] FS strengths used to be atmosphere and level design, not combat.

fixed.

And combat has been getting worse as well.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Or use a shield, they are crazy good here.

Yeah if you just use a heater shield and manage your stamina properly the game becomes 1/5 as hard as if you powerstance. I've played both ways and shields are definitely easy mode. I still use one. It's not a substitute for properly timing your dodges but a shield has your back when you screw up or when the enemy is big and the camera is going crazy.

Elden Ring isn't actually hard until endgame once your know how to play properly. I started my participation in this thread by complaining that the game was too hard for me to enjoy but now feel like 90% of the game is actually far too easy unless I consciously keep my vigor too low. Pretty much every issue ChildOfMalkav lists can be answered with "just get good" or "just use a heater shield" and I hope that doesn't come across as an insult because I had to go through that process myself. "Getting good" happens just by continuing to play and you learn to deal with everything. There's always a way.

Arena wide AOE? Jump and punish with a jumping attack. Claw talisman amps up your damage. Pretty much all of those can be jumped except things like fallingstar beast where you need to learn to reconise it and RUN. Delayed attack? Stop trying to time the roll/parry and move behind Margit before he does his phase 1 downward attack. Then square off and stance break the fucker. This is how I sl1 him as part of my process of character creation. I make a wretch then get the broadsword, beast crest heater shield, the no skill ash and go kill him for enough runes to buy my starting gear. I used to use a jellyfish summon to do this, now can do it with no summon. Just play more and what seems unfair becomes a joke.

Millisecond quick attacks? Heater shield. You only need 1 stamina to negate all damage. When you can't dodge in time you can usually block. If they are spamming attacks like that you're standing in the wrong place because the follow up will kill you. You probably need to be more aggressive and try to get behind them. Whatever you do, just don't be where those attacks are happening. Dragonkin soldier is an example of this. He'll fuck you up if you fight him from the front with low vigor, so you hit him in the back of the knee. Keep rolling at his crotch until you go through his legs to safety. If you lost that position you have to get it back before attacking again. It's a problem solving thing more than a raw skill thing. Analyze what's happening and think how to stop it happening.

Super fast moving enemies that jump around? I dunno, just keep chasing them around. It works for me. Holding the shield up when you're not sure what's happening is usually enough to get your bearings back and go back on the offensive. For stuff like black knife assassins having a long weapon works. You can just spam R1 and they input read your attack and try to dodge but they don't dodge far enough. Troll's golden sword is long enough and staggers well. Any colossal will. For gargoyles a blunt weapon and a shield and just keep chasing.

Other, undefined issues where nothing seems to work? Try ash of war Lion's Claw and have a big HP bar. It's an unstoppable attack that lets you tank through whatever bullshit the enemy is doing and at least get a trade. Then drink a red. Not ideal but it usually works for me if nothing else does. Your vigor stat is the real difficulty setting. More vigor, more mistakes are allowed. If you're not getting one shot then the fight is fine to do. Red flasks are plentiful.

You don't even need to be super good to master the bosses, just play them a few times and do something different if what you're doing isn't working. I'm a competent player. Not a good player, there's a universe between competent and good in Souls. But if a competent player like me can feel OP with a basic sword and shield STR build, not even touching OP ashes, summons, the fingerprint shield etc then the difficulty is fine. The game is only hard if you make rules for yourself to make it harder. "No spirit summons, SL1 only, no ashes of war, low vigor, restricted rune level, no shields" etc make the game harder. Just playing normally isn't hard at all once you learn the basics.

 

[Zurbo]

Millisecond quick attacks? Heater shield.

But if a competent player like me can feel OP with a basic sword and shield STR build, not even touching OP ashes, summons, the fingerprint shield etc then the difficulty is fine. The game is only hard if you make rules for yourself to make it harder. "No spirit summons, SL1 only, no ashes of war, low vigor, restricted rune level, no shields" etc make the game harder.
Just playing normally isn't hard at all once you learn the basics.

For me that's actually the case. Not that the game is too difficult to complete (because it is not), but that it fails during many moments to allow the player to create a suitable challenge for himself. I for example just like playing without shield and relying on dodges.
The mechanics you mentioned (not using shields or summons, other restrictions) are tools, which you can use in theory to adjust the difficulty/playstyle, so that you get an enjoyable experience/challenge. Similarly to how you can manipulate the
amount of estus flasks you get from a particular bonfire in DkS1.

However things like attacks too quick to roll, excessive tracking, extending combos are punishing your playstyle in an incorrect way imo. Of course if you decide to restrict yourself from some particular tools, you should be prepared to meet more problems. Just those difficulties are more noticeably unfun this time and the game does not handle them very well imo. For example the fight with Malenia was frustrating when battling alone, because of "we all know which attack", but when I used a summon it was trivialized, because the boss AI does not deal well with fighting two opponents. It didn't give satisfaction a good fight is supposed to give.

There were too fast attacks in previous Soulses as well, like one of Gwyn's sword attacks in DkS1 and I also didn't like them.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Millisecond quick attacks? Heater shield.

But if a competent player like me can feel OP with a basic sword and shield STR build, not even touching OP ashes, summons, the fingerprint shield etc then the difficulty is fine. The game is only hard if you make rules for yourself to make it harder. "No spirit summons, SL1 only, no ashes of war, low vigor, restricted rune level, no shields" etc make the game harder.
Just playing normally isn't hard at all once you learn the basics.

For me that's actually the case. Not that the game is too difficult to complete (because it is not), but that it fails during many moments to allow the player to create a suitable challenge for himself. I for example just like playing without shield and relying on dodges.
The mechanics you mentioned (not using shields or summons, other restrictions) are tools, which you can use in theory to adjust the difficulty/playstyle, so that you get an enjoyable experience/challenge. Similarly to how you can manipulate the
amount of estus flasks you get from a particular bonfire in DkS1.

However things like attacks too quick to roll, excessive tracking, extending combos are punishing your playstyle in an incorrect way imo. Of course if you decide to restrict yourself from some particular tools, you should be prepared to meet more problems. Just those difficulties are more noticeably unfun this time and the game does not handle them very well imo. For example the fight with Malenia was frustrating when battling alone, because of "we all know which attack", but when I used a summon it was trivialized, because the boss AI does not deal well with fighting two opponents. It didn't give satisfaction a good fight is supposed to give.

There were too fast attacks in previous Soulses as well, like one of Gwyn's sword attacks in DkS1 and I also didn't like them.

I think it's fair to complain that playing without a shield is much, much harder. I have builds I want to do that don't use a shield but they never really work out. My Wolverine bleed build with arcane hookclaws had devastating DPS but was abandoned in frustration after I died while farming the giant bears for early game spending money, something I find easy with my default heater shield with a straight sword and/or a greatsword setup. I could and did kill bosses with him, but that build was pain and suffering. Very apropos for Logan, but not fun for me.

I know shieldless play is popular and I always believed my inability to play well shieldless was just due to my own lack of skill... until I saw footage of average skilled people playing shieldless and realized that the everyman dual wielder just facetanks a lot of stuff and considers getting hit a normal and expected part of most fights. There are too many times the camera goes crazy and you can't see or the boss is too big or too fast for me to believe powerstance is optimal for PVE, at least not all the time. Viable? Absolutely. Superior in some situations? Yes. But you'd have to be willing to eat a lot of shit to play like that all the time. My "shieldless" builds have a shield as a secondary left hand armament. For some enemies you just need one.

As for Malenia... I've yet to beat her. I've thought a lot about her and I think I know what approach to take though. This vid (not mine obviously), shows how it's done. It will take practice to do it but you can see he BH steps away from the first two attacks of waterfowl and then back through the third. With the 1.6 buff to light rolls this should be possible without BHS I think. It will take a lot of practice to master but I think it's very possible, especially when I consider he's SL1 and the build I'm going to fight her with will have 2134 hp, 30% for most absorptions, frostbite buildup and magic spells.

 

[Zurbo]

I know shieldless play is popular and I always believed my inability to play well shieldless was just due to my own lack of skill... until I saw footage of average skilled people playing shieldless and realized that the everyman dual wielder just facetanks a lot of stuff and considers getting hit a normal and expected part of most fights. There are too many times the camera goes crazy and you can't see or the boss is too big or too fast for me to believe powerstance is optimal for PVE, at least not all the time. Viable? Absolutely. Superior in some situations? Yes. But you'd have to be willing to eat a lot of shit to play like that all the time. My "shieldless" builds have a shield as a secondary left hand armament. For some enemies you just need one.

I was playing most of the time with a single twinblade and didn't go for trades usually, so cannot confirm that for sure, but I also heard that dual wielding jump attacks are a viable strategy.
Also didn't lock the camera apart from some more mobile enemies. I remember this lock on was really fucked up in a Deathbird fight, when it did its anime acrobatics and I didn't even see what's going on, so yeah, I agree with that.

And good luck with Malenia. If they made the rolling more viable, it might actually be a fun encounter.

 

[Jasede]

Never in my life have I equipped a shield in these games.
It is always the same:

"Maybe this time, I will not play a 2H Strength dude."
"Fuck it, 2-handed sword it is."

I dislike the game so far... the bosses are not too hard and it just all seems like every Souls game ever. Again. Do you guys even read the dialogue? I skip all of it. At this point the NPC archetypes feel so played out. If I meet another ambiguously amoral mysterious person I will scream. Oh cool, a cave with summoning ashes in it.

Summons? Why would I ever summon anything? That is what shield users do. Fuck them.

 

[jungl]

open world is a meme. Started playing dark tower ps1 few day ago having more fun with it then eden ring. From software makes the same games over and over again but there best ones are the ones without ton of game length but still memorable like armored core 1 and demon souls.