From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Halfling Rodeo]

I think your points is:

"I want to know exactly what happened, from A to Z in detail, i can't do that because game doesn't let me read lore easily."

What i am saying:

"Main default storyline (as presented by fingers) is what developers intended for normal player to experience same way all DS games work. Additional lore and endings, mini stories etc. are there to discover for those who look and IS part of gameplay itself. Moreover the stories are presented in such a way that there is no TRUE storyline, all have vested interests and tell their side of story with their views and biases and endings themselves usually are entirely subjective to your personal journey."

Like i said i never used any gamefaq or lore videos and yet i understand mostly history and story. Obviously i don't know it 100% but that is not the point of game.

This kind of issue reminds me a lot old Sapkowski essey about fantasy in general and how european fantasy and american fantasy are divided by concept of "knowing". Same way David Lynch wrote a lot about mystery and how solving mystery essentially destroys whole journey because you can then safely put story in a box with name "there is nothing more to it" and be done with it.

didn't you say you missed Ranni's quest? She's clearly the intended path through the game and the one most people take first time through.

 

[goregasm]

Man, picked this back up after launch, haven't really played it, but put in about 16 hours over the past 4 days.

Loving it, and I don't play fromsoft games, I LIKE them. The tone, design philosophy is awesome, but I don't need that level of frustration in my life.

At least I thought so. Elden Ring has definitely got me invested. Almost have limgrave cleard out, got the 2 jails, the dragon, and mergit left.

Thought I was the big swinging dick on the block and those 4 just smash me, but I understand that's my fault, not the games.

Grinding out those 5 giants to get some souls.

 

[Silva]

Ok, I'm giving this shit a genuine attempt this time. Two questions:

1 - What builds are iconic to the setting in a way that would make me feel linked to it/more immersed just by playing and developing it? Eg: I like the lore on the "Confessor", being a "inquisitor spy" of sorts for the Two Fingers faith, etc. I don't like the "Samurai" cause it feels generic as shit. This kind of thing. Suggestions?

2 - What path should I follow, assuming I will manage to finish the game for the first (and only) time this time? Ranni the bitch? Go straight to Leindel and see what happens? Follow the other tarnished dudes?


Thanks in advance, faggots.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Ok, I'm giving this shit a genuine attempt this time. Two questions:

1 - What builds are iconic to the setting in a way that would make me feel linked to it/more immersed just by playing and developing it? Eg: I like the lore on the "Confessor", being a "inquisitor spy" of sorts for the Two Fingers faith, etc. I don't like the "Samurai" cause it feels generic as shit. This kind of thing. Suggestions?

2 - What path should I follow? Ranni the bitch? Go straight to Leindel and see what happens? Follow the other tarnished dudes?


Thanks in advance, faggots.

If you want to do a priest build you can but be warned end game bosses are very very resistant to holy damage. It's hard mode once you hit end game. There's loads of factions within the game and you can usually farm their stuff and get their unique magic.

Ranni has a lot of content locked behind her quest line. Even if you don't want her ending you probably want to follow it to it's conclusion for the extra content.

 

[Ravielsk]

You don't need any side NPC to get story. Just few battlegrounds and main npcs you can't miss like two fingers.
Obviously to get other endings and different version of story you need explore and find people, items, places etc.

That is like saying that to read a book you only need to read the first, middle and final chapter to get the story. Sure, you can do that and you will get something out of it but at best its going to be a abridged version of the actual story.

Elden Ring or any souls game is not really different in that manner. Sure you can skip all the optional quests in Elden Ring but then you are effectively cutting out good 3/5 of the story and context out. If you just mainline the whole game you essentially get nothing more than what the intro told you at which point I would seriously question if you even experienced a story at all.

Not that Elden Ring makes for a particularly good story but that is something for another post.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Elden Ring or any souls game is not really different in that manner. Sure you can skip all the optional quests in Elden Ring but then you are effectively cutting out good 3/5 of the story and context out. If you just mainline the whole game you essentially get nothing more than what the intro told you at which point I would seriously question if you even experienced a story at all.

Part of the problem is also that From cut out a lot of story too. All the merchants story line that didn't make it in. It really helps explain a few things but it's not in the final game. So is it part of the story or is it not?

 

[Silva]

If you want to do a priest build you can but be warned end game bosses are very very resistant to holy damage. It's hard mode once you hit end game. There's loads of factions within the game and you can usually farm their stuff and get their unique magic.

Could an hybrid mitigate this, like a Fth-Dex / Fth-Str build?

 

[Skinwalker]

I'm glad they cut the gypsy curse storyline. Listening to Kale's pajeet voice actor horribly over-acting has scarred my soul. I can't stand that NPC after witnessing that cringe, because I can now hear the hindu accent and it annoys me.

 

[Bendu]

Ok, I'm giving this shit a genuine attempt this time. Two questions:

1 - What builds are iconic to the setting in a way that would make me feel linked to it/more immersed just by playing and developing it? Eg: I like the lore on the "Confessor", being a "inquisitor spy" of sorts for the Two Fingers faith, etc. I don't like the "Samurai" cause it feels generic as shit. This kind of thing. Suggestions?

2 - What path should I follow, assuming I will manage to finish the game for the first (and only) time this time? Ranni the bitch? Go straight to Leindel and see what happens? Follow the other tarnished dudes?


Thanks in advance, faggots.

Go for a fundamentalists build with the discus of light incantation and the Erdtree greatshield as your main attack weapon. It's my favorite pve build so far.

Spoiler

 

[goregasm]

Ok, I'm giving this shit a genuine attempt this time.

I'm running with a wretch, has been fun and has forced me to actually explore and do the early game, no equipment but you can pick up some decent shit from soldiers.

Also has just enough points to mess with some spells, which has been cool.

I don't know shit about builds, or anything like that. Basically almost "done" with limgrave, except for the big 2 bosses and the 2 jails.

In that time I got vigor up to 30, endurance to 15, working on dex now because I think I like those weapons, but it's really a different type of game than DS, if shits too hard, leave, or upgrade your weapons with smithing stones, they are everywhere, use the golden runes to level, they are everywhere.

It took me a long time to understand that. It's easier and more forgiving than DS, it's still got it's "get gud" moments, but it's so open ended that the experience is more gradual than DS

 

[Silva]

Ok, I'm giving this shit a genuine attempt this time. Two questions:

1 - What builds are iconic to the setting in a way that would make me feel linked to it/more immersed just by playing and developing it? Eg: I like the lore on the "Confessor", being a "inquisitor spy" of sorts for the Two Fingers faith, etc. I don't like the "Samurai" cause it feels generic as shit. This kind of thing. Suggestions?

2 - What path should I follow, assuming I will manage to finish the game for the first (and only) time this time? Ranni the bitch? Go straight to Leindel and see what happens? Follow the other tarnished dudes?


Thanks in advance, faggots.

Go for a fundamentalists build with the discus of light incantation and the Erdtree greatshield as your main attack weapon. It's my favorite pve build so far.

Spoiler

Looks cool but those stats are all over the place. Is that normal for this game? What is the suggested level for meta PvP (assuming I do it someday), 120 or 150?

And what are "Fundamentalists" lore-wise?

While we're at it, what are "Godslayers", "Black Knives" and "Perfurmers"? Are there viable builds around those groups? Call me a LARPER, I don't care.

 

[Damned Registrations]

If you want to do a priest build you can but be warned end game bosses are very very resistant to holy damage. It's hard mode once you hit end game. There's loads of factions within the game and you can usually farm their stuff and get their unique magic.

Could an hybrid mitigate this, like a Fth-Dex / Fth-Str build?

Faith gives access to lightning and fire spells anyways. You'll be fine unless you're trying to larp and stick to a single element for some reason. I'd suggest not worrying too much about your 'class' and just using whatever feels effective/fun. I ran around with a rapier shanking people for half the game and a huge fuckoff greatsword for the other, and used some faith spells the whole way through where applicable.

 

[Ravielsk]

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up

This.

The experience feels aimless and meaningless in contrast to other From games (and the repetitive open-world adds to it). It's one thing having a plot/story with some blank spaces here and there for the player to fill on his own (or resorting to a wiki). It's another thing having a big, blank world for the player to fill almost entirely (or resorting to a wiki).

That is not really a exception for Souls games at this point. Its more like a rule that the games are story wise a mess. Ever since Dark Souls 1 the ambiguity of From's storytelling was used more as a crutch rather than a actual feature.

Dark Souls 2 is quite literary a narrativeless mess with no real story that spends more time rambling deep sounding lines and parroting DS1 than having an actual plot. The game was obviously rushed and major chunks of content were cut or edited down to a point where its more like a Dark Souls themed level pack rather than a actual game.

Dark Souls 3 is effectively 2, maybe three different narratives stitched together with duck tape and spit with most of its narrative threads left just flopping in the wind. Oceiros, the Angels(the fat one in Lothric), the Profaned Capital each are just sort of there with little to point or even commentary. In fact most of DS3 is just kind of a series of footnotes to a larger piece that no one ever got to see. Again huge cuts were made in the monster department( for example the ulcerated tree spirits from ER are just DS3 cut content) and even whole cloth mechanics removed so late that devs essentially had not time to compensate leading to the bonfire problem that DS3 has.

Bloodborne is essentially a artificially obtuse version of what they originally had as the network test released just about half a year before launch(so accounting for disc printing about 4-5 months of actual dev time) is essentially a wholly different game which I have already covered in a number of different post here on the dex.

And finally Elden Ring which judging based on all the cut stuff and the differences between 1.0, final game and network test is yet again a victim of this exact spastics approach where they start with idea A work with that concept for 1/4 of their development cycle than switch the idea B which is completely different to A but they never bother to go back and make adjustments to compensate, rinse and repeat about 2 to 3 more times.
The autistic fanbase will then not only defend this shit but also effectively write their story for them so why would they bother?

 

[Damned Registrations]

While we're at it, what are "Godslayers", "Black Knives" and "Perfurmers"? Are there viable builds around those groups? Call me a LARPER, I don't care.

If you DO want to larp, I'd say the godslayers are the most viable option. Black knives are a niche group of assassins without much gear or spells associated with them. Perfumes are a whole thing, but you won't have enough to build around until very late game. Godslayers have a bunch of weapons and spells associated with them and pop up all over the game.

 

[Skinwalker]

Bloodborne is essentially a artificially obtuse version of what they originally had as the network test released just about half a year before launch(so accounting for disc printing about 4-5 months of actual dev time) is essentially a wholly different game which I have already covered in a number of different post here on the dex.

Wholly different game? Surely you jest.

 

[Nathir]

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up

This.

The experience feels aimless and meaningless in contrast to other From games (and the repetitive open-world adds to it). It's one thing having a plot/story with some blank spaces here and there for the player to fill on his own (or resorting to a wiki). It's another thing having a big, blank world for the player to fill almost entirely (or resorting to a wiki).

I literally didn't use any guide or watched any lore video. You can easily come up what is going on from just playing game.
It is even easier to follow than something like DS2-3 where 2 was very random while 3 required some knowledge from 1.

You can easily come up what is going on from just playing game.

You can also easily miss out on 80% of the NPC dialogue because they're all waiting around for you in random places you've already cleared out.

You don't need any side NPC to get story. Just few battlegrounds and main npcs you can't miss like two fingers.
Obviously to get other endings and different version of story you need explore and find people, items, places etc.

The Radagon reveal is absolutely essential to understanding some of the story and you only get it through Goldmask and solving a puzzle you have no reason to know exists.

And I'm sorry but "Random item description with an insanely low drop rate/one boss soul usage per play through and multiple equipment you can make" is now an easy just playing the game thing.

You also get it through watching the intro to the last bossfight. Where Marika literally transforms into Radagon in front of your eyes.

 

[Nathir]

I'd say the first three Souls games are all fairly well thought out in terms of setting. Bloodborne gets a pass since being vague enhances it's horror element.

First one yes, 2 and 3 no.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Dark Souls 2 is quite literary a narrativeless mess with no real story that spends more time rambling deep sounding lines and parroting DS1 than having an actual plot. The game was obviously rushed and major chunks of content were cut or edited down to a point where its more like a Dark Souls themed level pack rather than a actual game.

I agree 2 is a broken mess but it's the most interesting souls game to me. I think it does a lot of things well even if you have to look the other way for some of the jank.

Drangleic is really undervalued as a setting.

You also get it through watching the intro to the last bossfight. Where Marika literally transforms into Radagon in front of your eyes.

Do you? I watched the cut scene again just now. Blonde chick falls down, a hand grabs a hammer and hair turns red. We have no frame of reference for who Radagon is looks wise. So it's very difficult to understand what's going on. For all we know Marika isn't real and it's all bullshit because Radagons on the ring and hair changes colour because the hammer powers up/breaks the illusion. It's not spelled out in the game what's happening in that cut scene.

 

[Bendu]

Looks cool but those stats are all over the place. Is that normal for this game? What is the suggested level for meta PvP (assuming I do it someday), 120 or 150?

And what are "Fundamentalists" lore-wise?

While we're at it, what are "Godslayers", "Black Knives" and "Perfurmers"? Are there viable builds around those groups? Call me a LARPER, I don't care.

Stats are fine for this build. Your primary stats are faith and int. You need str for the greatshield. Also those stats are all raised by Godrick's Great Rune and Radagon's Scarseal.

Lore wise the fundamentalists are tied to Radagon, Miquella, Goldmask and the Hunters of those who live in death.

An interesting route would be getting both dectus medallions as soon as possible, heading to the Altus Plateau and entering Leyndell via the portal in the Deeproot Depths.

As for pvp meta, IIRC it's 200 for invasions and 125 for duels at the Raya Lucaria Academy.

 

[Ravielsk]

Wholly different game? Surely you jest.

Mechanically maybe not but story and layout wise it was a whole different beast. I already covered this in my earlier post.

Lance McDonalds series of cut content and any site that catalogs cut content. Especially the ones based on the network test version of the game that was released on October 2014. Bloodborne itself released in march 2015. So unless From software was using some uber years old built to do a network test the cut content points to a very different game. Funnily enough most of it is still accurate of the retail release but communicated much more poorly, creating strange gaps in the story that did not exist there previously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWoKbVJ-pF0&list=PL2LIfEkuP8BvxGE7L6hdGWQkSTutEXPVM
https://bloodborne.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Cut_Content
https://www.bloodborne-wiki.com/p/unused-content.html

But to give a very quick summary the game they were obviously building was supposed to build up to the whole "eldritch horror" aspect of the story. The player was originally an explicit foreigner to the city of Yharnam who came or was brought there by his friend(named but I cannot recall the name right now) for treatment. This is still partly true as the armor description for the default gear insinuates this but the illness not so much although NPC still talk about some thin-blood or some such(its been too long since I played so I do not remember all the terms exactly). The friend however got completely cut as he was supposed to be revealed to have turned into the Cleric beast but most likely much much later than right after the boss fight.

I assume this because the entire area of Old Yharnam and Djura is all about revealing that the beast are in fact people a plot twist that is not a plotwist because its explicitly told to us right at the start of the game. So Djura even making a fuss about it is in the final game a plot hole but in the "alpha"(no idea why they call it that when its a feature complete build 6 months removed from release) story this probably made complete sense. You can further observe bits of this original intent in Upper Cathedral Ward which in the released game is for some reason trying to freak out the player with a chandelier set piece accompanied by the most basic werewolf enemies who at that point are complete pushovers. But in the "alpha" upper cathedral ward was most likely a much earlier area, possibly filled with friendly NPCs that were later meant to turn into beasts and this was supposed to be the "oh shit" moment of the game.

Further more the game was obviously made with some time of the day/night mechanic as the game does internally track what part of the game the player is in but does nothing with it otherwise. However based on the alpha its clear that Yharnam was supposed to gradually get more beast infested as the night progressed as there as spawn triggers link to the time of day. Most likely even the beastly Yharnam people who in the finished game are the default enemy and ergo spoil the whole "the beasts are people" were most likely meant to show up later into the game when the hunt actually began.

There is more but I have other things to do at the moment so the best I can do is refer you to the links I posted.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Can I just say the fun of a souls game is exploring it, finding what works for you and over coming challenges? Having some 'tard guide you through the entire game to a larp build just seems a bit.. Fucking retarded.

Boot the game up. Go find some shit you like. Fuck getting spoilered.

The friend however got completely cut as he was supposed to be revealed to have turned into the Cleric beast but most likely much much later than right after the boss fight.

This is something that really bothers me. How the fuck did From go "Margott is the final boss" to "Morgott is the tutorial boss"? Like WTF. Morgott is really bad game design in general but WTF

 

[Skinwalker]

Most likely even the beastly Yharnam people who in the finished game are the default enemy and ergo spoil the whole "the beasts are people" were most likely meant to show up later into the game when the hunt actually began.

Ok, but then who were originally supposed to be the basic enemies of the game? The Old Yharnam beasts?

 

[Ravielsk]

Ok, but then who were originally supposed to be the basic enemies of the game? The Old Yharnam beasts?

The werewolves, rats, crows, dogs, Beast-possessed Souls, Brick Trolls... the game has plenty of low level enemies to throw at the player. Also keep in mind its not like the game had to immediately start off with 100% combat. The official story trailer in fact made it look like the game would have something like an investigative phase so perhaps the plan was to start during day time or shortly before night(the lightning engine can absolutely do day light btw even though the game never uses it) where you would chat with NPCs, your friend and maybe explore bit of the city before the blood transfusion and the night setting in.

 

[Silva]

But to give a very quick summary the game they were obviously building was supposed to build up to the whole "eldritch horror" aspect of the story. The player was originally an explicit foreigner to the city of Yharnam who came or was brought there by his friend(named but I cannot recall the name right now) for treatment. This is still partly true as the armor description for the default gear insinuates this but the illness not so much although NPC still talk about some thin-blood or some such(its been too long since I played so I do not remember all the terms exactly). The friend however got completely cut as he was supposed to be revealed to have turned into the Cleric beast but most likely much much later than right after the boss fight.

I assume this because the entire area of Old Yharnam and Djura is all about revealing that the beast are in fact people a plot twist that is not a plotwist because its explicitly told to us right at the start of the game. So Djura even making a fuss about it is in the final game a plot hole but in the "alpha"(no idea why they call it that when its a feature complete build 6 months removed from release) story this probably made complete sense. You can further observe bits of this original intent in Upper Cathedral Ward which in the released game is for some reason trying to freak out the player with a chandelier set piece accompanied by the most basic werewolf enemies who at that point are complete pushovers. But in the "alpha" upper cathedral ward was most likely a much earlier area, possibly filled with friendly NPCs that were later meant to turn into beasts and this was supposed to be the "oh shit" moment of the game.

Further more the game was obviously made with some time of the day/night mechanic as the game does internally track what part of the game the player is in but does nothing with it otherwise. However based on the alpha its clear that Yharnam was supposed to gradually get more beast infested as the night progressed as there as spawn triggers link to the time of day. Most likely even the beastly Yharnam people who in the finished game are the default enemy and ergo spoil the whole "the beasts are people" were most likely meant to show up later into the game when the hunt actually began.

There is more but I have other things to do at the moment so the best I can do is refer you to the links I posted.

Notice that 1. we indeed come to Yharnam to treat a disease, 2. there is someone we make friends with (Gilbert), who guides us until he transforms into a beast later, and 3. the world goes to shit as the night goes on, with various cues showing the city's collapse due to the scourge. So, while I agree the game would probably be better if that content was preserved, they still managed to preseve most of the key elements in one way or another, which makes your "a whole different game" statement a bit exagerated.

That said, I agree with your overall point that these games are the result of development back-and-forths, revisions and butchered plots that sometimes fall into place out of sheer luck (eg: Bloodborne), other times obviously don't (Eg: Dark Souls 3), and most times find an acceptable middle ground (DS1, DS2, ER).

 

[Silverfish]

First one yes, 2 and 3 no.

DS2 is pretty legit. The fragments of Manus worming their way throughout the world, Drangleic and the giant war, references to other regions, it's good stuff. I agree that DS3 is a mess, but by "the first three Souls games", I meant Demons, Dark 1 and Dark 2.