From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Halfling Rodeo]

Is there any info on how much of the team has been working on this? We have at least 1 year of development and by all accounts the dlc could be pretty big. Also considering the commercial and critical success of the game it makes sense that they would aim for something big.

Something big and unique means another swamp..

 

[Barbarian]

Is there any info on how much of the team has been working on this? We have at least 1 year of development and by all accounts the dlc could be pretty big. Also considering the commercial and critical success of the game it makes sense that they would aim for something big.

Something big and unique means another swamp..

Something something about the halig tree - wheat fields with a blonde girl riding torrent(who may or may not be tranny miquella).

(according to the dlc title and single promotional image so far)

 

[Skinwalker]

I have purchased the official strategy guide and have been reading it. Pretty much the best official strategy guide ever btw - it is more like an ancyclopedia than an actual guide when you put it all together - the 2 volumes add up to more than 1000 pages. Lots of setting and character information which is implied in the game but might be missed playing it as well.

Does any of it explain who the hell is Melina and why she is helping the Tarnished?

 

[Barbarian]

I have purchased the official strategy guide and have been reading it. Pretty much the best official strategy guide ever btw - it is more like an ancyclopedia than an actual guide when you put it all together - the 2 volumes add up to more than 1000 pages. Lots of setting and character information which is implied in the game but might be missed playing it as well.

Does any of it explain who the hell is Melina and why she is helping the Tarnished?

This and other things are left somewhat ambiguous and open to the player's interpretation.

Spoiler

She is heavily implied to be Marika's daughter, "the kindling maiden", and some form of incorporeal ghost who has partially forgotten the mission given to her by her mother but knows she must reach the foot of the erdtree. She helps the player because she believes he is destined to become elden lord. Also she needs your assistance in completing her mission.

 

[Skinwalker]

But isn't she also the gloam eyed queen, whatever that means?

 

[Barbarian]

But isn't she also the gloam eyed queen, whatever that means?

That is also a clusterfuck of hidden information and left for the player to interpret or even make up.

Also her obvious but non-explicit relation to ranni and the "sword of night and flame". They are each one-eyed(malina left-eye and ranni right-eyed), represent the sun and moon somehow, cross reference each other in dialogue and have an obscure relation to the night of the black knives(Malina's knife is identical to the ones blackknife assassins wield, Ranni is implied to have been the mastermind behind the plot).

I assume Myazaki's and Martin's idea was to have a very ellaborate and deep-seated setting - with tolkienesque levels of detail and self-reference - but make 90% of the info non-explicit in the game and left for the player to figure out somehow.

Honestly, this is sometimes infuriating but also part of the game's charm and otherworldliness.

 

[Skinwalker]

Honestly, this is sometimes infuriating but also part of the game's charm and otherworldliness.

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up. I'm also not sure if GRRM did much apart from "Game of Thrones but the lords are literal gods/demigods", tbh.

Opposite extreme of western AAA RPGs that usually have incessant dialogue and an enormous in-game library codex with walls of text on every single fucking thing. I hate both. HATE!

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

That's just Souls lore for ya. I do think that ER was their first real attempt at making an actual lore for an actual world. You don't see much of that in Souls games, which are mostly face value type deals.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

I assume Myazaki's and Martin's idea was to have a very ellaborate and deep-seated setting - with tolkienesque levels of detail and self-reference - but make 90% of the info non-explicit in the game and left for the player to figure out somehow.

Honestly, this is sometimes infuriating but also part of the game's charm and otherworldliness.

There's 2 schools of thought on souls story content

Miyazaki is a genius with a unique brand of story telling. He knows everything and then edits it just enough to make you as the player wonder and never know the true mystery.

From throw shit at the wall. Don't care how any of it actually connects and constantly ret con stuff in production so any design document connections are lost and no one knows WTF any of it means including From themselves.

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up. I'm also not sure if GRRM did much apart from "Game of Thrones but the lords are literal gods/demigods", tbh.

He wrote the story outline, he didn't do any of the detail work that we know of. If you want to be a real asshole look up the version of Elden ring on disc. The version without the day 1 patch has a variety of lore changes and different enemy placement. So something happened lore wise between finishing the game and.. finishing the game.

 

[Barbarian]

Honestly, this is sometimes infuriating but also part of the game's charm and otherworldliness.

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up. I'm also not sure if GRRM did much apart from "Game of Thrones but the lords are literal gods/demigods", tbh.

Opposite extreme of western AAA RPGs that usually have incessant dialogue and an enormous in-game library codex with walls of text on every single fucking thing. I hate both. HATE!

But you admit the game is an idiosyncratic gem and you love it for it, yes?

Character design is interesting enough to make you want to figure out what is happening and has happened in the past, and the hidden lore mostly pops up because the design is (mostly) coherent around it. Like how many players figured out the "nightfolk" often referenced in the game are artificial beings descended from the silver tears because... well, because the silver tears transform into nightfolk looking people and all the scattered bits of text about it reference it.

 

[Silva]

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up

This.

The experience feels aimless and meaningless in contrast to other From games (and the repetitive open-world adds to it). It's one thing having a plot/story with some blank spaces here and there for the player to fill on his own (or resorting to a wiki). It's another thing having a big, blank world for the player to fill almost entirely (or resorting to a wiki).

 

[Silva]

I do think that ER was their first real attempt at making an actual lore for an actual world.

Is the First Flame and Age of Fire a joke for you?

Is Byrgenwerth discovery on Pthumerians and Great Ones a joke for you?

Is Ashina Isshin rebellion a joke for you?

 

[Silverfish]

I'd say the first three Souls games are all fairly well thought out in terms of setting. Bloodborne gets a pass since being vague enhances it's horror element.

 

[Barbarian]

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up

This.

The experience feels aimless and meaningless in contrast to other From games (and the repetitive open-world adds to it). It's one thing having a plot/story with some blank spaces here and there for the player to fill on his own (or resorting to a wiki). It's another thing having a big, blank world for the player to fill almost entirely (or resorting to a wiki).

According to morbidly obese fedora simp, the background lore and setting is very detailed and he wrote it all years before the game was released(possibly before development even begun):



That is the impression I got from playing the game and reading the guide. That the game is based on a very cohesive and referenced setting, but the developers either didn't bother to present it or intentionally hid most of it.

 

[Ezekiel]

Bored. I'm bored! When did games start abusing attack delays? Was it Bloodborne and Dark Souls III or did it simply explode with them?

 

[9ted6]

I have purchased the official strategy guide and have been reading it. Pretty much the best official strategy guide ever btw - it is more like an ancyclopedia than an actual guide when you put it all together - the 2 volumes add up to more than 1000 pages. Lots of setting and character information which is implied in the game but might be missed playing it as well.

Does any of it explain who the hell is Melina and why she is helping the Tarnished?

The answer to most Soulsborne lore questions is that no one knows including the writers. Almost all the lore in these games is extrapolated by the fandom while the writers throw disconnected concepts at the wall and see what seems cool enough in the moment to stick.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Caim]

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up

This.

The experience feels aimless and meaningless in contrast to other From games (and the repetitive open-world adds to it). It's one thing having a plot/story with some blank spaces here and there for the player to fill on his own (or resorting to a wiki). It's another thing having a big, blank world for the player to fill almost entirely (or resorting to a wiki).

According to morbidly obese fedora simp, the background lore and setting is very detailed and he wrote it all years before the game was released(possibly before development even begun):



That is the impression I got from playing the game and reading the guide. That the game is based on a very cohesive and referenced setting, but the developers either didn't bother to present it or intentionally hid most of it.

Only thing they used of Martin's writing was all the incest.

 

[Barbarian]

There is also no rape. Japs must have curbed the fat creep's rapey instincts.

 

[Caim]

There is also no rape. Japs must have curbed the fat creep's rapey instincts.

The weird shit Mohg does to his half-brother is kinda pushing it in that direction.

Oh, and necrophilia of course.

 

[Silva]

Bored. I'm bored! When did games start abusing attack delays? Was it Bloodborne and Dark Souls III or did it simply explode with them?

Delays can be good when used with parcimony and good sense (like in, yes, Bloodborne). Elden Ring is an example of how NOT to do it.

 

[Perkel]

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up

This.

The experience feels aimless and meaningless in contrast to other From games (and the repetitive open-world adds to it). It's one thing having a plot/story with some blank spaces here and there for the player to fill on his own (or resorting to a wiki). It's another thing having a big, blank world for the player to fill almost entirely (or resorting to a wiki).

I literally didn't use any guide or watched any lore video. You can easily come up what is going on from just playing game.
It is even easier to follow than something like DS2-3 where 2 was very random while 3 required some knowledge from 1.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You can easily come up what is going on from just playing game.

You can also easily miss out on 80% of the NPC dialogue because they're all waiting around for you in random places you've already cleared out. My first playthrough I got the frenzied flame ending, had no idea why Melina was suddenly being a bitch to me (never got her warning because I didn't need to rest at the grace, missed Ranni's plotline for the same reason) and hadn't even gotten any of the questline that was supposed to lead there because I never found grape lady after that spot in Stormveil. Selena was in two places at once for no apparent reason, with no way to talk to her about it. Etc.

You might stumble into a path that reveals some nice lore (I got most of what was going on with volcano manor and the albinaurics, at least) but, especially on release before they added NPC markers, it was way too easy to miss out on massive chunks of lore. It's possible to dig for the lore yourself, but you need to autistically search the entire world a dozen times and read all the item descriptions and talk to everyone you know after talking to anyone at all or killing any boss. Earlier games required the same, but they had less of everything to check and recheck, so it was more forgivable.

 

[Perkel]

You can easily come up what is going on from just playing game.

You can also easily miss out on 80% of the NPC dialogue because they're all waiting around for you in random places you've already cleared out.

You don't need any side NPC to get story. Just few battlegrounds and main npcs you can't miss like two fingers.
Obviously to get other endings and different version of story you need explore and find people, items, places etc.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

They play up the vagueness far too much for it to be charming. When people have to rely on sources outside the game to make any sense of what's happening, it's a sign of a major fuck-up

This.

The experience feels aimless and meaningless in contrast to other From games (and the repetitive open-world adds to it). It's one thing having a plot/story with some blank spaces here and there for the player to fill on his own (or resorting to a wiki). It's another thing having a big, blank world for the player to fill almost entirely (or resorting to a wiki).

I literally didn't use any guide or watched any lore video. You can easily come up what is going on from just playing game.
It is even easier to follow than something like DS2-3 where 2 was very random while 3 required some knowledge from 1.

You can easily come up what is going on from just playing game.

You can also easily miss out on 80% of the NPC dialogue because they're all waiting around for you in random places you've already cleared out.

You don't need any side NPC to get story. Just few battlegrounds and main npcs you can't miss like two fingers.
Obviously to get other endings and different version of story you need explore and find people, items, places etc.

The Radagon reveal is absolutely essential to understanding some of the story and you only get it through Goldmask and solving a puzzle you have no reason to know exists.

And I'm sorry but "Random item description with an insanely low drop rate/one boss soul usage per play through and multiple equipment you can make" is now an easy just playing the game thing.

 

[Perkel]

I think your points is:

"I want to know exactly what happened, from A to Z in detail, i can't do that because game doesn't let me read lore easily."

What i am saying:

"Main default storyline (as presented by fingers) is what developers intended for normal player to experience same way all DS games work. Additional lore and endings, mini stories etc. are there to discover for those who look and IS part of gameplay itself. Moreover the stories are presented in such a way that there is no TRUE storyline, all have vested interests and tell their side of story with their views and biases and endings themselves usually are entirely subjective to your personal journey."

Like i said i never used any gamefaq or lore videos and yet i understand mostly history and story. Obviously i don't know it 100% but that is not the point of game.

This kind of issue reminds me a lot old Sapkowski essey about fantasy in general and how european fantasy and american fantasy are divided by concept of "knowing". Same way David Lynch wrote a lot about mystery and how solving mystery essentially destroys whole journey because you can then safely put story in a box with name "there is nothing more to it" and be done with it.