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Elemental: War of Catastrophic Poor Judgment

Jason

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<strong>[ Update ]</strong>

By now, many of you have read Brad Wardell's <a href="http://forums.elementalgame.com/394855/page/2/#2753014" target="_blank">mea culpa</a> about <a href="http://www.elementalgame.com/" target="_blank"><strong>Elemental: War of Magic</strong></a>.
<blockquote>I don't think people yet fully realize the completeness of Stardock's fail on Elementa's launch.

I'm going to write more about this but not only did we think v1.05 was ready for everyone but we felt v1.0 was too. That's the level of disconnect/poor judgment on our part we're talking about.

If the game had come out in February, it would still have been a disastrous launch because lack of time wasn't the issue. It was blindness, sheer blindness.  We felt the game was finished. And I speak of v1.0, not v1.05.  Blindness.

There will be massive consequences for Stardock's game studio.  I'll be talking more about this when I get back. But the game wasn't released early. The game was released poorly. Head in the sand syndrome imo.  I've read the reviews as much as possible given my hideous internet access up here and I agree with them. We just didn't see what they were talking about. We thought any complaints would be about polish points or something.

The point is, the issue here is far far worse than many of you think it is. I wish it was an issue of the game being released too early. That's an easy thing for a company to "fix".  Elemental's launch is the result of catastrophic poor judgment on my part.

EVERY competent software developer knows that the programmer must never be the one deciding whether the program is done. Yet, my love of Elemental broke my self discipline and I began coding on the game itself in vast amounts and lost any sense of objectivity on where the game's state was. I normally only program the AI on our games so I can keep a level of distance from the game itself to determine whether it's "Ready". On Elemental, I was in love with the world and the game and lost my impartiality.

We'll do better.
</blockquote>He's since gone further and announced that some folks are <a href="http://forums.elementalgame.com/395168" target="_blank">being laid off</a> due to the situation.
<blockquote>Elemental's revenue was anticipated to provide the revenue both for our main games team's next project as well as a second team. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen so we've had to start laying people off.

No one is being fired. None of these people did anything wrong. Stardock is a small company and each person here is truly amongst the best and brightest.  So you can imagine how much it sucks for all of us to lay off anyone. We haven't had to lay anyone off since our migration from the OS/2 market in 1998. It would be great if we can bring as many of these people back over time if the studio can afford it.

No one involved on the core components of Elemental is affected.

Elemental's rocky launch can be summed up (IMO) as follows: Our QA process was insufficient to handle a brand new platform (Elemental = Kumquat 1.0 versus say Galactic Civilizations II was using Pear which was the same engine, modified, from 1997's Entrepreneur) + my own catastrophic poor judgment in not objectively evaluating the core game play components.</blockquote>
 

Angthoron

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Whoah, I feel pity to those guys.

Although what's said there is lacking one important thing - are they actually going to fix it? Is it even fixable?
 

Burning Bridges

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Wow, respect.

But what does it mean? Is the game unfixable? Is Stardock in serious trouble?

I was planning to wait 1 or 2 years after release until the game is in a matured state, as I usually do. But now it looks like there is a more serious problem, and they may not be able to turn this into a success.

Why else would BW not try to spread optimism?
 

dragonfk

Erudite
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Messages
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Elemental is in no danger as far as patches are concerned - says Brad. The reason behind the lay offs is they wanted to have two teams working independently on two games at once. Now that Elementals revenues will flop they had to cut the additional team.
 
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Messages
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As for whether the game is fixable... maybe, but there's a ton of work to do. It's hard to see the game underneath through all the shit at the moment.
 

Elwro

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So the people who fucked up stay, but others are being laid off. Cool management, bro - or am I missing something?
 

zeitgeist

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Elwro said:
So the people who fucked up stay, but others are being laid off. Cool management, bro - or am I missing something?
Isn't that how it always goes?
 

Zeros

Novice
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Feb 27, 2008
Messages
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Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
As for whether the game is fixable... maybe, but there's a ton of work to do. It's hard to see the game underneath through all the shit at the moment.

And even when you see the game, the design is waaay too simplistic.

I'm not sure they gave much thought and self-criticism to their game design. It's messy and disjointed. I'm not sure they *know* how to fix it.

What's the saddest is that on the Mods forum there are a few good ideas for fixing things like stats and combat (with influences from Dominions3), but I'd bet they won't listen to that.
 
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Yeesh said:
As an earnest pessimist, I was expecting Elemental to disappoint. But I'm truly surprised it's been such a clusterfuck.

Yes, this truly surpassed all expectations. This is easily the worst game I've ever played at release. I know you all can bring up worse (I hear HOI3 was literally unplayable at launch), but this is really bad.
 

Gondolin

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Alexandros said:
Gondolin said:
Why isn't Wardell fired? He's already proved himself as an incompetent fuck.

Isn't he the owner of Stardock?

Wikipedia says "founder, President and CEO". Doesn't say whether he also owns the company or not. Nevertheless, he ought to have the decency to remove himself from the team and bring in somebody who knows what the fuck he's doing.

His hobbies include beekeeping.

Then let him stick to his fucking bees.
 

PorkaMorka

Arcane
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
5,090
I wouldn't call it sad news.

Sure, it sucks to lose a turn based developer, but they deserve to go out of business for making such a bad game.

Hitting their pocketbooks is the only way to teach these companies a lesson. If you keep buying their shit, they will keep selling you shit (see almost every Paradox game at release).

And Stardock games sucked anyway.
 

Shannow

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Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Yes, this truly surpassed all expectations. This is easily the worst game I've ever played at release. I know you all can bring up worse (I hear HOI3 was literally unplayable at launch), but this is really bad.
How does it compare to Dungeon Lords?
 

YourConscience

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Dungeon Lords was so broken you wouldn't have believed it could be fixed even if your mom would have told you.

Elemental at least clearly shows that it can be fixed. The speed at which they fix things indicates that they at least have a decent modern code base that does allow significant changes to core elements at a rather high speed. That also means save-game breaking patches for the next half-year at least. But given the blandness of said core elements currently, this isn't the worst thing to happen.

Despite all this, I actually managed to have some fun with it even in the release state. But CivIV drew me back rather quickly. IF only CivV would be released today...
 

commie

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At least he admitted to being a fucking retard. Not many would...certainly none of the big developers. Has EA apologised for C&C 4? That was worse than day one Elemental as a game.

The way out is to release a new version of this game in a year, and give a free copy to all who bought the original.
 

JarlFrank

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I just didn't remove it from an inventory and enjoy it. Much much better than the GalCiv games. Still laggy and encountered some bugs, but I might buy it once it's properly patched up, especially since making the crack work requires some annoying system clock messing.
 

commie

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JarlFrank said:
I just didn't remove it from an inventory and enjoy it. Much much better than the GalCiv games. Still laggy and encountered some bugs, but I might buy it once it's properly patched up, especially since making the crack work requires some annoying system clock messing.

I actually like it too, not having played Master of Magic before or many magicky type Civ/MoM style games so maybe the fact that I don't have much comparison for it made me enjoy it more.
 

thesheeep

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YourConscience said:
Dungeon Lords was so broken you wouldn't have believed it could be fixed even if your mom would have told you.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! :retarded:
Dungeon Lords was still fun to play, with nice atmospheric graphics and the combat.
Of course, the game was broken, no story, ridiculous NPCs, ridiculous towns, etc., etc.
Yet I come back playing the game for some days every year.
I guess I just really like the combat...


But... should I try Elemental?
I have completely missed that it was released and now I hear that it bombed. So I am a bit confused now.

Having read some reviews, the general opinion seems to be that there are some very good ideas, a horrible GUI, stupid AI, no multiplayer yet (is planned), love-it-or-hate-it graphics, possibly the "just one more turn"-effect and no tutorial and generally hard to get into. Oh, and loads of bugs.

I need some recommendations here.
 

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