ELEX ELEX RELEASE THREAD

[Luckmann]

I need to know, Luckmann .
If you say the combat system is total shit, is that absolute or relative to other games?

Relative to other games, obviously; if I had no point of comparison, I wouldn't be able to make the judgement.

What system would you prefer in a RT Open World Action RPG?
Dark Souls? Skyrim? Witcher? Gothic 1 & 2? Risen?

Hard question, honestly. The idea of the system in the given context, in an open-world action RPG, isn't bad - obviously, things that are more my cup of tea, such as isometric-ish turn-based combat, is entirely unreasonable and unfeasible.

Ultimately, it fails largely because it's not capitalizing on the things that could be strengths. The controls are awful, the blocking/aiming jerky, the dodging is just awful but that goes back to the controls, the enemy basically shoot homing missiles - and yes, I realize that they are "just" predicting where you're running based on your movement speed, but they do it with such unerring accuracy that it's terrible and obvious, and once you figure that out it's also painfully predictable and easily avoidable - the hitboxes are.. all over the place, and enemies are either completely pushovers or relentless bullet-sponges. Oh, and don't get me started on the insanity of having "spells as items" and a forced 1-9/0 hotkey bar in something that's supposed to be vaguely immersive real-time combat.

There are many, many, many ways combat in Elex could be improved and be either altogether more engaging, or abstracted in a better manner (although the latter would likely have to upset the dynamic that they are going for).

Cause i have lot's of fun with the combat system.
For me it's arguably the best combat system in a PB game.
One could argue about ELEX or Risen 1 though.

I think that says more about PB than it says about the quality of the combat, the combat systems, and the controls.

 

[Kahr]

So what other real time open world rpgs have done the combat system better?

 

[Luckmann]

I have read a good portion of the thread and apart from the elex is life meme I am still a bit undecided. It seems most of the people in the its shit camp complain about the combat? Last PB Game I played through was risen and I only used bows. I still had lots of fun so I assume I can safely purchase and have lots of fun again? Or is there anything else thats worse than it was in Risen (I played the second one only for about 20 minutes and didnt touch the third)?

Like I said earlier in the game (not my earliest post, tho; I've reevaluated Elex somewhat), I still recommend the game, at least if you liked PB:s previous games, because the very few things Elex does well, it does really well.

When I fucked up the outcome of a quest, I was legitimately shocked, even though it was entirely my own fault, and the way it felt obvious and natural was great - it was my own fault, my own fuckup, I had made this bed and I had to lie in it, because otherwise I'd have to reload several hours back, and the game did it to me without having to do some bullshit switcharoos or by having a dialogue response that made me reload because it didn't end up doing what I expected it to do. I fucked that up, me, and the game rewarded me in a way that made complete sense in the context. I know of no other modern-day game that does that in this manner, and it was amazing.

A lot of the quests are shitty MMO fetch-quests and "go talk to X, Y, Z and then return to A, after which you'll collect herbs B & C" and shit like that, but many quests have an almost surprising number of outcomes, and most quests are handled fairly organically - you killed someone prior to even getting the quest? You have the chance to straight-up tell them "I already killed that asshole" when you otherwise would be given the quest. Sometimes, this leads to wonky-ass dialogues, but it's there, and it makes sense. If the dialogues didn't feel wonky at times, it would be nothing short of amazing work, but as it is, you'll have NPC:s sometimes repeat themselves during the course of initial dialogue in some situations. Shit like that.

Aside from that, the exploration is great, and as opposed to shit made like Bethesda, the world actually feels hand-crafted. Like that rock is there for a reason, and underneath that hill is a cave, and shit like that. Unless you have the Sunglasses, you can double-over an area twice and still found stuff you haven't picked up, or a little secret, or a nook or cranny you hadn't seen before. The jetpack also really add to the exploration, and although the world geometry is horrible, having you get stuck and snagged on shit all the fucking time, and the controls are awful (things I no longer deal with because I am now running shit so I have infinite jetpack and don't have to deal with shit like standing an waiting for a full minute just to jump to the next platform, or getting stuck under a platform or a ledge), having that vertical option for exploration and approaching things adds a surprising level of complexity and opportunity. I really think they should've capitalized on it harder, or simply implemented it better, because the jet pack really is at the core of the game and the exploration (and early on, avoiding enemies, if you want/need to).

So yeah, I'd still recommend it, just to have played it and be able to make comparisons to it later, on the very few things it actually does well. I personally do not believe it's worth it's full price if you're strapped for cash, but that particular part of it is up to you and how you value things.

So what other real time open world rpgs have done the combat system better?

Any one that I've experienced. Except possibly Fallout 4, because it's basically just an FPS.

 

[Hobo Elf]

You just wanted to defend the game on all points with the argument that "It's an RPG!",

Because it is an RPG. Get it through your dumb head. The shit you're complaining about are about an RPG playing by its RPG mechanics. How retarded can you be?

even when it makes no sense, such as arguing that RPG:s are about stats and rolls, even though Elex's combat, which does not rely on stats and rolls in the traditional RPG fashion, does no such thing. Again, your argument makes no fucking sense.

You need stats to wield better weapons to pierce through armor, otherwise you do shit damage. You also need to pierce through armor to stun more reliably, otherwise you're going to have a bad time. Whoa, what the fuck is that about. Sounds like you need stats to be successful at this game. Almost as if it's an RPG.

Edit: I hope you never try and play Gothic 1 & 2. You'd probably shit yourself when you realize that you have to train weapon skills to wield them normally. "Waah! What do you mean my character has to train in one handed weapons to know how to use a weapon? Why isn't this like.. like DARK SOULS??"

 

[Luckmann]

Fallout 4 New Vegas is a project aimed to recreate and revitalize Fallout New Vegas in the Fallout 4 Creation Engine.

Would be cool if they ever finish it.

If it's like any other Bethestard game, it won't be able to fix the decline in RPG mechanics. There's been similar projects previously, but they can never address the fundamental issues, just recreate the environment, so what's the point? Also, what is this doing in the Elex thread?

Because it is an RPG. Get it through your dumb head. The shit you're complaining about are about an RPG playing by its RPG mechanics. How retarded can you be?

No it's not, as has been explained to you, you complete dumbass.

You need high stats to pierce through armor, otherwise you do shit damage.

We know this. You're just too fucking stupid to realize that that's not the issue.

You also need to pierce through armor to stun more reliably.

We know this too. You're just too fucking inbred to understand that that's not the issue.

Otherwise you're going to have a bad time. Whoa, what the fuck is that about. Sounds like you need stats to be successful at this game. Almost as if it's an RPG.

We know that it's an RPG. As you have been informed, short of drawing you a fucking road map. You're just too fucking stupid to grasp that that's not the issue, despite it being detailed to you.

At this point, I think you're simply legitimately retarded, but sure, just hold onto your "muh RPG!" argument, as if that's a valid excuse for shit combat mechanics in the system Elex is already using.

"Bad implementation? No, of course not! Just muh RPG!" I swear, you'd be just as happy if we gave you a Happy Meal and rolled you down into the ball pit in McDonalds, as long as it said "RPG" on the box.

Edit:

Edit: I hope you never try and play Gothic 1 & 2. You'd probably shit yourself when you realize that you have to train weapon skills to wield them normally. "Waah! What do you mean my character has to train in one handed weapons to know how to use a weapon? Why isn't this like.. like DARK SOULS??"

Training weapon skills is usually considered pretty fundamental to an RPG, and I've never even played Dark Souls. Your arguments are not just nonsense, you're literally fighting windmills manner by strawmen. We did not need additional confirmation that you're a bonafide fucking retard.

 

[Kahr]

So what other real time open world rpgs have done the combat system better?

Any one that I've experienced. Except possibly Fallout 4, because it's basically just an FPS.

What other RPGs of said category have you experienced beside Fallout 4?

 

[Luckmann]

So what other real time open world rpgs have done the combat system better?

Any one that I've experienced. Except possibly Fallout 4, because it's basically just an FPS.

What other RPGs of said category have you experienced beside Fallout 4?

I dunno, pretty much all of them that I can imagine? I haven't finished all (I've barely touched Fallout 4).

Edit: Oh, I just remembered, Dragon Age: Inquisition was open world, right? Yeah, never actually touched that personally, because of how much cancer the franchise was by then.

 

[Kahr]

So ... Skyrim has a better combat system than ELEX in your mind?

 

[Luckmann]

So ... Skyrim has a better combat system than ELEX in your mind?

Fundamentally? Yeah, unfortunately. The actual system itself is shit, but at least it works properly, and while I can question Bethesda's goals, at least it does what it's designed to do and it does it well, no matter how much I dislike that goal. The Gothic/Elex format is better, but implementation is fucking awful. If they'd taken the time to actually make it work properly, tested it, tuned it, and tied it properly to a progression and the other subsystems, I think it could've worked great in Elex.

But that's not what they did. They created a system where the AI is too fucking stupid to not shoot straight into the ground if there's an enemy below them, they created a system where animations are terrible and the response is slow, they have a system with twitch-gaming elements in it, but nothing that capitalizes on it or uses it properly, they create a system where barriers are completely ignored when it comes to AoE, they created a system where you have to (had to - supposedly fixed in the latest patch) double-click to fucking dodge, a system where hotkeys in said twitch-influenced gameplay are locked to numerics 1-9/0, and where spellcasting is treated like equippable items and where the menu doesn't pause the game, a system where the enemies are either completely trivial or relentless bullet-sponges with no in-between or sense of progression, where humanoids seem to all be treated at the same baseline (and can thus be reliably wounded) but other opponents are all over the map, statistically, and a multitude of other minor issues that all add up to a terrible whole.

Like I said earlier, the fundamental idea of Elex combat isn't wrong or bad in itself, and it is certainly better than Skyrim, but the way it actually plays out is easily one of the worst combat systems I've experienced not just in RPG:s, but in gaming, period.

 

[Xeon]

Edit: I hope you never try and play Gothic 1 & 2. You'd probably shit yourself when you realize that you have to train weapon skills to wield them normally. "Waah! What do you mean my character has to train in one handed weapons to know how to use a weapon? Why isn't this like.. like DARK SOULS??"

Isn't that how Dark Soul does it? I never played DS and I hated the controls in Gothic 1 and didn't want to skip the story by playing sequels. But from watching DS, you can wield any weapon or armor but you are not able to use it all that well if you lack the attributes or skills I think. That's a good design IMO.

---

For gameplay,

I don't play a lot of FPS but for guns I'll probably go for FNV since its a lot better than MEs and AP, don't think I played any shooters other than those so that's the best I can think of.
Melee, I don't think I can handle the stress of fighting like in Dark Soul for 30-60 hours, Skyrim wasn't all that great either tho, maybe similar to Witcher but slower or something.
Archer, I enjoyed archery in Skyrim.

Edit:
I should mention that I haven't played with ranged weapons in ELEX yet, watching a stream of it only so who knows, range might end up a lot better or something but the streamer was playing on Ultra and ranged weapons are really weak and felt terrible.

 

[Kahr]

So ... Skyrim has a better combat system than ELEX in your mind?

Fundamentally? Yeah, unfortunately. The actual system itself is shit, but at least it works properly, and while I can question Bethesda's goals, at least it does what it's designed to do and it does it well, no matter how much I dislike that goal. The Gothic/Elex format is better, but implementation is fucking awful. If they'd taken the time to actually make it work properly, tested it, tuned it, and tied it properly to a progression and the other subsystems, I think it could've worked great in Elex.

But that's not what they did. They created a system where the AI is too fucking stupid to not shoot straight into the ground if there's an enemy below them, they created a system where animations are terrible and the response is slow, they have a system with twitch-gaming elements in it, but nothing that capitalizes on it or uses it properly, they create a system where barriers are completely ignored when it comes to AoE, they created a system where you have to (had to - supposedly fixed in the latest patch) double-click to fucking dodge, a system where hotkeys in said twitch-influenced gameplay are locked to numerics 1-9/0, and where spellcasting is treated like equippable items and where the menu doesn't pause the game, a system where the enemies are either completely trivial or relentless bullet-sponges with no in-between or sense of progression, where humanoids seem to all be treated at the same baseline (and can thus be reliably wounded) but other opponents are all over the map, statistically, and a multitude of other minor issues that all add up to a terrible whole.

Like I said earlier, the fundamental idea of Elex combat isn't wrong or bad in itself, and it is certainly better than Skyrim, but the way it actually plays out is easily one of the worst combat systems I've experienced not just in RPG:s, but in gaming, period.

So in your opinion the kid that made a non-erupting baking-soda vinegar volcano would get a worse grade than the one that took a dump into the teachers coffee?
Interesting...

 

[Multidirectional]

Isn't that how Dark Soul does it? I never played DS and I hated the controls in Gothic 1 and didn't want to skip the story by playing sequels. But from watching DS, you can wield any weapon or armor but you are not able to use it all that well if you lack the attributes or skills I think. That's a good design IMO.

Most of the weapons in Dark Souls don't have huge stat requirements, and even most of the ones you can equip at very low levels can be viable throughout entire game as long as you upgrade them. Character stats are a lot less important in Dark Souls, hence them level 1 runs.

 

[Fenix]

Have you seen it at night?

Spoiler

 

[Whisper]

What is consensus of Kodex?

This game is good or not?

 

[Shadenuat]

What is consensus of Kodex?

This game is good or not?

Uneven - It's an uneven game that does certain things very well, others terribly
35 vote(s)
18.5%

 

[Kitchen Utensil]

Kodex konsensus: Better than D:OS2, not quite as good as Grimoire. Worse kombat than Skyrim though.

 

[Shadenuat]

Worse kombat than Skyrim though.

I wanted to answer that, but I don't want to get all the cold and silent disagree, shit and retarded ratings. They're too scary and emotionally stressfull. The plan is to let Luckmann collect them all instead

Game is worth a try. It would have been better if you could access it's better parts more without them awkwardly hiding behind the bug curtain. Like a retarded girl with soft heart. Or a scary unshaved german who gives you a free beer.

...ugh I'm bad at this, I'll see myself out.

 

[Darth Roxor]

What is consensus of Kodex?

This game is good or not?

gud

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

What is consensus of Kodex?

This game is good or not?

Uneven - It's an uneven game that does certain things very well, others terribly
35 vote(s)
18.5%

Is that a real poll?

 

[Shadenuat]

It's DOS2 poll

 

[Somberlain]

None can stand against the Golden Baby.

But incline cometh in the shape of ELEX.

 

[Belegarsson]

What is consensus of Kodex?

This game is good or not?

It doesn't have physical/magical armour system, so it's obviously gud

Honestly I'd tolerate the combat more if hitboxes make sense. I fought this Iron Maiden, provoked her so I saw the fight coming from miles away. Dialogue finished, I evaded away right when she swung her axe and somehow still hit me even though the axe was nowhere near my butt. Had to jetpack away to not get hit.

 

[Elex]

need to learn how to swing a sword is one of the detail i love in gothic: also you need a trainer.

i consider gothic the true level zero paesant simulator and i love that.

and this is the point:
elex/gothic/risen are based around that, my character need to learn how ro fight (or more often relearn/remember/drink elex) no matter how good i am my character is not supposed to beat the game with the first weapon i find.

dark souls instead is based on the fact that I have to learn how to fight, because the game allow me to be completed with any weapon i find and the starting gear


i like both design but for different reason because it’s two different experience and gameplay.

i don’t want a dark souls with a well made elex-like combat and progression.

 

[Kahr]

So can you climb the volcano? There are a lot of fire and radiation areas, but otherwise you can stand beside lava in this game.
Is there any way up through those death zones?

You see on the map how there's what looks like a whole complex of buildings to the east of the volcano? You can go up that way. It's north northwest of the company premises Ignadon teleporter. I don't remember any problems with heat or radiation, just lots of high-level monsters:

Spoiler

I think it's mutants, molochs, and definitely a cyclops

.

Spoiler

WOW there's an amazing weapon too. The death ray.

But i meant the big volcano... There seems to be a way up in the west near the dam.
There are lots of fire and radiation areas, which don't get affected by my Outlaw stim resistances.
(otherwise i'm 100% resistent against those zones)
Dammit PB!

 

[abnaxus]

Friend of Beasts skill is funny. P. much every animal aside from slugbeast is docile above level 30.