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Elite Dangerous - Yay or Nay?

Fishy

Savant
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Jan 24, 2019
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Flesh out the empty game that is already there?
That will never happen, the only thing they are able to do is something cosmetic, the core gameplay will never change , universe will be always bland and static.I probably missed a few updates ,thats how uninterested i am.This last extension make no use of hotas, nor VR by the way. Walking simulator in the sand and some fps in generic mission hubs, how excting once again. David braben was right in one of his old statement , i will never really like the game.
This game is exactly what I expected it to be when they announced that they were making it an MMO.
:mca:

That's the crux of it. Almost everything wrong with the game can be traced back to the multiplayer requirements. Pity because it's fucking gorgeous. A moddable FFE in that engine would have been a dream come true.

We wanted Elite 4, we got World of Braben.
 

DDZ

Red blood, white skin, blue collar
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That's gaming these days. And 'gamers' are to blame.

I am currently enjoying Hardspace: Shipbreaker, and Steam comments on the roadmap the devs posted is all shit like PLZ VR REPORT!!! PLZ CO-OP!!! PLZ I WANT TO BE A FAGGY INTERIOR DESIGNER AND MAKE NICE HOUSE IN SPACE!!!
 

DraQ

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Flesh out the empty game that is already there?
That will never happen, the only thing they are able to do is something cosmetic, the core gameplay will never change , universe will be always bland and static.I probably missed a few updates ,thats how uninterested i am.This last extension make no use of hotas, nor VR by the way. Walking simulator in the sand and some fps in generic mission hubs, how excting once again. David braben was right in one of his old statement , i will never really like the game.
This game is exactly what I expected it to be when they announced that they were making it an MMO.
:mca:

That's the crux of it. Almost everything wrong with the game can be traced back to the multiplayer requirements. Pity because it's fucking gorgeous. A moddable FFE in that engine would have been a dream come true.

We wanted Elite 4, we got World of Braben.
In a space game freeform multiplayer and the kind of realism and tech level FE2 and FFE were built upon are fundamentally at odds.
 

Burning Bridges

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That's gaming these days. And 'gamers' are to blame.

I am currently enjoying Hardspace: Shipbreaker, and Steam comments on the roadmap the devs posted is all shit like PLZ VR REPORT!!! PLZ CO-OP!!! PLZ I WANT TO BE A FAGGY INTERIOR DESIGNER AND MAKE NICE HOUSE IN SPACE!!!

Those VR whiners are getting on my nerves too. You should see how they are ruining conversation in flight sims. There are calls to boycott games all over the place because in game X the VR support is lacking, or blatant sureptitious advertisement to support another developer. If I was in charge I would tell those VR wankers to fuck off, put on their smelly helmets and simulate a world in which the majority gives a fuck about VR.

Hardspace: Shipbreaker looks interesting actually. After the demise of Hellion I am looking for anything to fill that itch.
 

J_C

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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
That's gaming these days. And 'gamers' are to blame.

I am currently enjoying Hardspace: Shipbreaker, and Steam comments on the roadmap the devs posted is all shit like PLZ VR REPORT!!! PLZ CO-OP!!! PLZ I WANT TO BE A FAGGY INTERIOR DESIGNER AND MAKE NICE HOUSE IN SPACE!!!

Those VR whiners are getting on my nerves too. You should see how they are ruining conversation in flight sims. There are calls to boycott games all over the place because in game X the VR support is lacking, or blatant sureptitious advertisement to support another developer. If I was in charge I would tell those VR wankers to fuck off, put on their smelly helmets and simulate a world in which the majority gives a fuck about VR.
I agree that whining about VR is retarded, but simulators are actually the only games where VR makes sense. So in a sense I get why they want VR.
 

Burning Bridges

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There are popamole flightsims that support VR, but they want to turn the hardcore into VR apps and it's just retarded.
 

Perkel

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There are popamole flightsims that support VR, but they want to turn the hardcore into VR apps and it's just retarded.

Good VR is only when normal game uses VR as effectively just different monitor and everything else is not changed outside of maybe UI. Which is why i hate most of VR games and use VorpX to convert normal games into VR.

I really fucking hate all those twerps that want motion controls everywhere. It would be like asking RTS games to support wheels or jousticks.
 

DraQ

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Last month I've had an itch to play something space-y, so I just went and tried NMS, X4 and Elite Dangerous.

Here's my two cents on each of them:

NMS has great music and that cool 80's scifi vibe. Everything else out there is atrocious, since the game has literally nothing to offer beside bad procgen planets and endless multilevel grind. The game gives you a digging tool to grind for resources, but this tool itself requires fuel, so while you grind for building resources or sellable resources you also have to grind for resources to power the digging tool, and there's also your oxygen generator that requires resources too, and suit's environmental protection eats up some other resources, that you also have to gather. I've gathered all my patience and slogged throuh the initial stranded-on-some-planet tutorial only to boldly go into the space and discover that there's literally no "space". The planets are glued to the skybox with not even a hint of orbital movement or "realistic" distances. The X3/X4 with its sectors are leaps and bounds ahead of this in terms of "realism". Dammit, the Outer Wilds, being a walking simulator set in tiny system with tiny planets where you can travel from moon to your home planet just in your spacesuit, provides you with better sense of space travel.


X4 is both good and bad. thesheep has already provided a great recap of of its strengths and weaknesses here https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/elite-dangerous-yay-or-nay.127242/page-9#post-6685637 that pretty much sums up my own experience.
I'd like to add that everything ui-wise is a huge pain in the ass in X4 - from moving your crew between the ships to building your station in the station editor.

Another thing would be that the game is totally unbalanced in its current state - in some games Xenons are brain dead, being easily mopped up by AI factions, in others Xenons are dominationg every sector, and somewhere both Xenons and factions are braindead resulting in player having to pour tons of money into the economy to make it work somehow.
In my 20-hours playthrough I've started as Argon Young Gun and got Xenon invasion in Hatico's choice around first 8 hours, led by a fucking Xenon I. It totally wrecked that sector and then proceeded to rape Argon prime, destroying the wharf and all sector's security including capital ships, complete witl all 3 of my miners and my fledgling station.
I've consulted each and every guide on how to destriy this monstrocity while having only a bunch of M-class ships, and, well, there was no way to do so. I've tried approaching it in a fighter, destroying its turrets and engines, only to find that some brilliant mind at Egosoft decided to make its shield modules impenetrable to fighters in order to counter this specific tactic. I've tried rescuing that Paranid Odysseus in Faulty Logic only to find that it has no guns and I've got nowhere to install them since Argon Prime is in ruins, and buying capital-class weapons requires faction rep of 20. So, I've resorted to cheating - changing the ownership of this Xenon I and sending it wreck Xenon sectors. An hour later, and another Xenon I showed up in Hatico choice and started another campaign of deep dicking. Well, that was enough of X4 for me, at least until they make this shit a bit more enjoyable.
Also, the optimisation is horrible atm, managing a fleet of 30 ships in map mode makes the game run at, like 5 fps.


And finally, ED.
I've came to it expecting Euro Truck Simulator / MudRunner /SnowRunner in space, so I was not disappointed by lack of the "game" in here.
Well, it has really good ship designs and sound. Like, excellent ship models and interiors, I really liked my AspX and made a ton of screenshots with it and some space features in background, be it twin stars or gas giants, or astroids.
The space is fine - its realistic enough in terms of being a, well, vast empty space, with things far and between, planets are rotating and have 'honest' day/night cycles, stations are moving on planets orbits - I dunno, if planets move around their orbits themselves. At same time it is arcade'y enough so that you don't bother with real orbital mechanics.
There's a certain zen-like value in its activites, which mostly consist of flying through nothing and trying to enjoy the view.
I've yet to undertake some deep space expedition, so I've got nothing to tell about the exploration - that is, aside from space refueling being tedious and that exploration pays bad.

My biggest gripe with elite would be not its presumed lack of depth, but its totally unbalanced economy and FD's incompetence at managing the game.

Missions are boring as fuck, as in any other space game, and pay atrociously. Combat and bounty-hunting are fun, but also bad in terms of profit. Piracy is pure charity atm, like, it will never pay off the amount of spacebucks you are gonna pay for a proper pirate ship and its maintenance.
Exploration is a bit better - you get to enjoy the views and also net up good sums of money, but its not nearly as profitable as top activities. Look at this post for example https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...afely_back_from_the_black_my_trip_around_the/ The guy has spent 160 hours of his time, travelled around the galaxy, and all he's got was, like, 1/5 or 1/10th of properly equipped carrier.

The most lucrative activities at the moment are very specific sorts of mining and trading, and by specific I mean "flying to some exact asteroid using exact directions to find it in a fucking asteroid belt and then resetting it using abuse that FDev can't patch" or "getting a biggest cargo ship out there and hauling tritium from low-selling station to high-buying station in 5 minutes of flight". I definitely don't say that these things are bad - finding the astroids using only screenshots and directions like "fly in the middle hotspot, level your ship, align it withnthe planet'right edge, find a specific-looking astroid, fly in that direction for 20km, than turn to the right and fly some more" was genuinely fun, hauling tritium was also fun ... in a way... , selling my haul to real players in carriers with bargaining, finding best deals, advertising and all that was fun too.

So, how did FD approach this situation? Maybe it made other activities more profitable? Or I dont know, encoured further player interaction, and all this player-run economy things? Maybe announce a free update to allow players buy and manage stations and control systems, like they do in Eve?
Fuck no, they just nerf everything that doesnt fit in their presumably, very narrow, vision of how this game should be played. Sorry, player, you can't make billions in several days and buy that oh-so-expensive Carrier with proper equip, and have fun, you have to earn it. It's not some stupid game you can play at your leisure, it's a serious thing. You can't just have supercruise and/or docking assist on your ship to make life easier for you - they should eat precious internal slots. Because having it easy is Bad.

To sum it up, Elite is much like every other niche game out there - it's shit, we know it's shit, but there's no real alternative.
Have you played its prequels, BTW?
 

DraQ

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Nope, this series has eluded me.
IIRC, my first space game was Parkan - an obscure russian clone.
I recommend giving Frontier: Elite 2 and FFE a whirl, then.
To see what they accomplished with the meagre resources of the time (FE2 ran on Atari ST, Amiga and 286 and fit on a single floppy) and what expectation they set up.

Pretty fun little vid of what the game was to those who played it at the time:
 

Fishy

Savant
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Jan 24, 2019
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Love the end when the seemingly random places he quickly cycles through are the 3 start position: Lave, Sirocco/Ross 154 and Mars.
 

DDZ

Red blood, white skin, blue collar
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Little late with fixing it. But good that now people have to grind for their carrier. If you don't want to, don't.

People are such goddamn whining cunts, you could get into an Anaconda in a few hours of playing, which was fucking retarded.
 

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
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Little late with fixing it. But good that now people have to grind for their carrier. If you don't want to, don't.

People are such goddamn whining cunts, you could get into an Anaconda in a few hours of playing, which was fucking retarded.

Yea because apart from getting a different canopy bigger ship there's nothing to ED.
 

DraQ

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Well, after one or two unsuccessful attempts, FD has finally managed to crush that LTD mining exploits with all the nerfhammer power it could muster.
Quite unexpectedly for such a prestigious company with fine and artful developers those 'fixes' also ruined the game's economy and made newly-added fleet carriers useless due to low-priced tritium supply becoming easily exhausted, mineable tritium disapperaing from hotspots and 'common" prices for tritium being too high - so that fuelling that Carrier for a long trip would not only be a significant time investment (try hauling that 20000 tons all by yourself) but also it would cost around a billion now. :salute:


The forums are pure gold as usual https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/so-you-pander-to-the-whiners-again.550870/
:avatard:
 

DDZ

Red blood, white skin, blue collar
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Little late with fixing it. But good that now people have to grind for their carrier. If you don't want to, don't.

People are such goddamn whining cunts, you could get into an Anaconda in a few hours of playing, which was fucking retarded.

Yea because apart from getting a different canopy bigger ship there's nothing to ED.

Well yeah, it's a walking simulator with spaceships and I am fine with that.

I don't the ships definitely feel different and are not just a different canopy.
 

Dwarvophile

Prophet
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Dec 1, 2015
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Little late with fixing it. But good that now people have to grind for their carrier. If you don't want to, don't.

People are such goddamn whining cunts, you could get into an Anaconda in a few hours of playing, which was fucking retarded.

Yea because apart from getting a different canopy bigger ship there's nothing to ED.

Well yeah, it's a walking simulator with spaceships and I am fine with that.

I don't the ships definitely feel different and are not just a different canopy.

yes, they fly different, they sound different, this is actually one of this game's biggest strenght
 

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
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There's nothing interesting about engineering or an Anaconda. It's all just grind with no player agency for grinds sake and to stretch what little gameplay there is.

The thread about the mining nerf perfectly encapsulates the ED community. Even sensible arguments and criticism get drowned in a flood of blithe boomer shitposting.
 
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I still maintain that the game was at its best, and its most fun, during the beta, that they should have stuck to smaller ships, and that they shouldn't have had that kind of "earn more to grind faster" / "better missions at higher levels" progression system.

Of course, that's the only progression the game had, but maybe if it didn't have that there'd have been some pressure to build more of an actual game. For example, orienting the game more towards faction conflict and PvP and making this take place via directly capturing stations, putting everyone in the same world instead of instancing, etc. But apparently that's too much like EVE, which is... somehow a bad thing? I don't understand boomers.
 

praetor

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Little late with fixing it. But good that now people have to grind for their carrier. If you don't want to, don't.

People are such goddamn whining cunts, you could get into an Anaconda in a few hours of playing, which was fucking retarded.

Yea because apart from getting a different canopy bigger ship there's nothing to ED.

Well yeah, it's a walking simulator with spaceships and I am fine with that.

I don't the ships definitely feel different and are not just a different canopy.

yes, they fly different, they sound different, this is actually one of this game's biggest strenght

they don't fly actually different. that's the game's biggest failing. the major difference between the smallest and biggest ships is the classic, pedestrian "rate of turn, acceleration, hitpoints and firepower", meaning that the one and only difference between the cheapest and most expensive trader is the amount of goods it can haul, and that all firefights play exactly the same: dogfights, no matter if you're in a tiny agile fighter or a huge 200m corvette

as much as the great flight model (and sound) is the biggest draw for this game, it's also its biggest weakness because of the sameyness

and whoever things "space legs" will bring anything of value to the game is a delusional buffoon
 

DDZ

Red blood, white skin, blue collar
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Little late with fixing it. But good that now people have to grind for their carrier. If you don't want to, don't.

People are such goddamn whining cunts, you could get into an Anaconda in a few hours of playing, which was fucking retarded.

Yea because apart from getting a different canopy bigger ship there's nothing to ED.

Well yeah, it's a walking simulator with spaceships and I am fine with that.

I don't the ships definitely feel different and are not just a different canopy.

yes, they fly different, they sound different, this is actually one of this game's biggest strenght

they don't fly actually different. that's the game's biggest failing. the major difference between the smallest and biggest ships is the classic, pedestrian "rate of turn, acceleration, hitpoints and firepower", meaning that the one and only difference between the cheapest and most expensive trader is the amount of goods it can haul, and that all firefights play exactly the same: dogfights, no matter if you're in a tiny agile fighter or a huge 200m corvette

as much as the great flight model (and sound) is the biggest draw for this game, it's also its biggest weakness because of the sameyness

and whoever things "space legs" will bring anything of value to the game is a delusional buffoon

But what should the differences be in the different size ships then? And the bigger ship also feel a lot heavier and tend to drift. I don't get what you want to see different? They have thrusters all around, it's not like they would suddenly get a bigger turn radius like is the case with cars with longer wheelbases.
 

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