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Elite: Dangerous

Bumvelcrow

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and people asked offline mode
But Braben explicitly said the game would be online only in the kickstarter. Probably because it has stopped people from pirating. That you guys aren't satisfied with a solo mode where other people can't come and blow you up is irrelevant. The game does what its developers promised it would, which is more than can be said for nearly every other kickstarted game.

It's like you guys buying lemon-lime and complaining that it doesn't taste like orange.

Haven't we gone through all this already? Braben started off with wishy-washy statements about it being online-only. People complained, so offline mode was added whilst the kickstarter was going, resulting in a nice boost to pledges. Then, just before release, offline mode was canned, resulting in a very large number of pissed off people. Not only that, but the reasons given for its removal were so half-arsed and disengenuous that he alienated a lot of his most public fans in a single stroke. Now, you can whine on all day about this being the 21st century and we should all be connected, but I backed the game based on a promise that was revoked for no good reason after they'd got my money and after I'd beta tested it enough for them to deny a refund. Go ahead, tell me I'm a fuckwit.
 
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Ulminati

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Fuckwit - I backed on kickstarter too. I'm not sure what your page said, but mine didn't say "offline mode", it said "solo mode". A lot of people just assumed "solo" meant "offline", but the online shit is the ED DRM. It was pretty obvious if you had half a brain that they weren't going to drop the DRM because muh pirates.


There's plenty of shit wrong with Elite. Lack of content being chief among them. But online-multiplayer was touted from day one. Solo mode grudgingly added because people didn't want other players in their game. And internet-less ED was never explicitly promised that I saw. They said they'd "look into it" at one point, which is Devspeak for "please shut up".

ED may be a mediocre game, but Frontier still delivered what they promised. Even if it wasn't nearly as good as we hoped.
 
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praetor

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There's plenty of shit wrong with Elite. Lack of content being chief among them. But online-multiplayer was touted from day one. Solo mode grudgingly added because people didn't want other players in their game. And internet-less ED was never explicitly promised that I saw. They said they'd "look into it" at one point, which is Devspeak for "please shut up".

from the KS FAQ:

Q: How will single player work? Will I need to connect to a server to play?

A:... (stuff about online solo)

Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).

seems pretty damn explicit to me

(there's also other stuff that was promised but it's not in yet, not to mention the plethora of half-assed shit that was in on release, basic UI stuff that wasn't there etc... release ED was as much of a clusterfuck as the average released KS project)
 
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Ulminati

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Huh... Whaddaya know. They changed it after I pledged. Didn't bother re-reading it. It's been added to the FAQ without any fanfare whatsoever later on. You'd think they would've made an effort to mention offline play in an update or the description outside a collapsed FAQ entry, but they haven't. And I sure as hell don't recall it being a thing back in 2012. A casual googling for mention of "single player" in any dev posts on kickstarter only turns up hits in backer comments.

Can you be more specific than "other stuff promised"? Actual gripes, or stuff which was mentioned fo rpost release content? Going to ignore "plethora of half-assed shit" since, as far as we can tell, that may have been how BrabenCo originally envisioned things. The overall day1 experience was pretty polished save for the lack of content. And all the silly background economy stuff failing hilariously to scale once the beta bubble was expanded and everyone scattered.
 
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J_C

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A relevant article about dropping offline mode:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...cry-over-elite-dangerous-ditched-offline-mode

"...being online lets us constantly both curate and evolve the galaxy, with stories unfolding according to the actions of commanders," Braben explained.

Braben said the decision to cancel the offline mode was only made recently - "and was not made lightly as we have been looking for ways to satisfy everyone".

"We announced shortly after we reached the conclusion that it wasn't possible to create an offline mode without unacceptably compromising the game," he said.
"In retrospect we should have shared the fact that we were struggling with this aspect with the community, but we were still trying to find a solution. As features were implemented, for the best results we chose to prioritise delivery of the online single and multiplayer experiences, with a view to providing the offline version later in development. We had to make a decision for the good of the game, and that is what we did.

I will probably be labeled an apologist again, but I think dropping the offline mode is understandable in Frontier's situation. They were running a low budget project, and making an offline as well an online mode would have increased the resources needed quite a lot. If we look at the game mechanics, there are thousands of colonized systems, where market prices, faction influence, system state, faction state constantly fluctuate. So they had to run these mechanics on the client side for the offline mode, but had to develop these on a server side as well, for the multiplayer.

I wonder if the people who are shitting on Elite's lack of offline mode really don't have access to the internet or they just hate it on principle. There are many things to dislike in ED, but not having an offline mode is the one thing which doesn't affect the gameplay in a meaningful way. I'd rather bitch about the shallow mission design.
 

praetor

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Huh... Whaddaya know. They changed it after I pledged. Didn't bother re-reading it. It's been added to the FAQ without any fanfare whatsoever later on. You'd think they would've made an effort to mention offline play in an update or the description outside a collapsed FAQ entry, but they haven't. And I sure as hell don't recall it being a thing back in 2012. A casual googling for mention of "single player" in any dev posts on kickstarter only turns up hits in backer comments.

Can you be more specific than "other stuff promised"? Actual gripes, or stuff which was mentioned fo rpost release content? Going to ignore "plethora of half-assed shit" since, as far as we can tell, that may have been how BrabenCo originally envisioned things. The overall day1 experience was pretty polished save for the lack of content. And all the silly background economy stuff failing hilariously to scale once the beta bubble was expanded and everyone scattered.

seems communication hasn't been their strong suit ever since the KS and it only got worse in the past year (particularly after they stopped doing the weekly dev update)

promised stuff? i think i already listed it many pages back (or maybe even another forum :)) in more detail, but i can't be arsed to go look for it. off of the top of my head, i only remember naming ships. i know, relatively minor, but it's hilarious (in a bad way) that it's still not in after almost 2 years. i can go look for more, but not today :P

day1 release "polished"? i'd say completely broken background "sim" (not only the economy, pretty much everything was completely broken for months after release), almost completely broken chat, next to no multiplayer functionality (the hilariously limited "wings" was only added after 3-4 months), broken instancing, and sometimes unusable UI (they added something as basic as bookmarks only in 2.1! you couldn't plot a route more than 100ly, and plotting 100ly routes took something like 2-3 minutes, if not more) is pretty far from "polished". iirc, they even fucked up their servers for a couple of days during the winter holidays (i.e. like 2 weeks after release) so nobody could play for a while (blessed be always online!). yes, the game was relatively stable and optimized (i.e. ran good on potato and didn't crash often) and the flight model was really good (still my favourite of any space game), but that's the only parts that were actually polished
 
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Ulminati

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promised stuff? i think i already listed it many pages back (or maybe even another forum :)) in more detail, but i can't be arsed to go look for it.

If you can't be assed to remember what other forum, I sure as hell an't be arsed to look for it either.

day1 release "polished"? i'd say completely broken background "sim" (not only the economy, pretty much everything was completely broken for months after release)

The funny/sad thing is that the background economy was in place during alpha/beta. You had goods prices fluctuating when someone mentioned a trade route on the forums. Other happened according to time of day (afternoon/evening in american midwest, superconductor prices plummeted on the stations that normally paid well because some kwan truckers were mining a trade loop etc. They just didn't scale in any way after the starter bubble was popped ane people went in a million different directions. I played for months after release, and I didn't experience "pretty much everything" as broken. You'll have to name examples. The closest I got to broken was a russian hacker using instakill guns. But I mostly played in private or solo mode so meh.

almost completely broken chat, next to no multiplayer functionality (the hilariously limited "wings" was only added after 3-4 months)
Multiplayer was pretty barebones, but as far as I can tell it did what was promised. To be honest, text chat while flying always feels a bit weird. Maybe if there was an autopilot and a #SpaceTruckers chatroom people would use it.

broken instancing, and sometimes unusable UI (they added something as basic as bookmarks only in 2.1! you couldn't plot a route more than 100ly, and plotting 100ly routes took something like 2-3 minutes, if not more)
You could toggle a flag to go for fewest jumps rather than least fuel and it went a lot faster. I think 20ish seconds was the worst plotting time I had. I'll concede the 100ly distance felt a bit limiting. But I was using a 3rd party trade app so I already had my route laid out for me anyway when I went trucking.

iirc, they even fucked up their servers for a couple of days during the winter holidays (i.e. like 2 weeks after release) so nobody could play for a while (blessed be always online!)
I was playing throughout those winter holidays and didn't have any trouble except for release day when logging in took 2-3 minutes.
 

praetor

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If you can't be assed to remember what other forum, I sure as hell an't be arsed to look for it either.

i did not imply you had to do it

The funny/sad thing is that the background economy was in place during alpha/beta. You had goods prices fluctuating when someone mentioned a trade route on the forums. Other happened according to time of day (afternoon/evening in american midwest, superconductor prices plummeted on the stations that normally paid well because some kwan truckers were mining a trade loop etc. They just didn't scale in any way after the starter bubble was popped ane people went in a million different directions. I played for months after release, and I didn't experience "pretty much everything" as broken. You'll have to name examples. The closest I got to broken was a russian hacker using instakill guns. But I mostly played in private or solo mode so meh.

nothing worked in the first few months. there were countless threads all over the official forums. hell, the Mercs of Dickunn, one of FDev's darling little human factions, continuously reported on the broken state of the BGS. flipping didn't work (until you opened a ticket and FDev manually corrected it), changing states didn't work etc. you know, the whole of the background sim.

hell, there were a couple of weeks (months?) when the economy was completely static because they couldn't fix it (and even after they supposedly fixed it, it was still pretty static. i distinctly remember doing some testing myself [i already had a Clipper, so it was some time in february if not later], maybe i can even find my notes, i wrote down the prices of a couple of commodities between 2 stations and the supply/demand numbers, and while the prices dropped by tiny amounts once the transaction was complete, they reset once you came back to the station). if i'm remembering things correctly, i believe they even said the "dynamic" (lol) economy wasn't properly enabled or something until they manually flipped the switch some time in early 2015 (around 1.1?)

Multiplayer was pretty barebones, but as far as I can tell it did what was promised. To be honest, text chat while flying always feels a bit weird. Maybe if there was an autopilot and a #SpaceTruckers chatroom people would use it.

chat was broken even when in the main menu. i pretty much couldn't communicate in-game with IRL friends until wings came out. it was completely fucked until 1.2 and if you never had problems with it, you were one of the lucky ones

and i don't know how you can justify that "it did what was promised" when nothing was specifically promised, it was just marketed as an MMO but it lacked basic functionalities for 3-4 months (functionalities which were lacklustrely implemented in the first place, and pretty much never improved in the 16(?) months that passed).

You could toggle a flag to go for fewest jumps rather than least fuel and it went a lot faster. I think 20ish seconds was the worst plotting time I had. I'll concede the 100ly distance felt a bit limiting. But I was using a 3rd party trade app so I already had my route laid out for me anyway when I went trucking.

i always used "fastest route" and plotting near the 100ly limit was notoriously awful. there's even vids around (if people didn't delete them) of people trying to plot routes a couple dozen ly near the core and the game taking a good couple of minutes. man, the best optimization of my favourite (and most profitable) rare trade route back then was pre-planning the route so i could plot it by ~50ly instead of 100 so i don't have to lose minutes between the longer legs

I was playing throughout those winter holidays and didn't have any trouble except for release day when logging in took 2-3 minutes.

i played as well, and distinctly remember a whole weekend being lost because their server team was on holidays as well. can't remember exactly when but it was a pretty decently sized shitstorm (it was when they fucked up so bad they accidentally gave shittons of money to some players. first week of january iirc) and it was the main drive behind them doing that whole "server status" page/indicator on launcher
 

J_C

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Depends on what did you think about it original. If you didn't have a problem with grinding missions, you will enjoy it now even more. But if you did, the game is still designed around lots of grinding.
 

Mortmal

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So how's game now? is it fun?

I concur, its even worse than before. Now if you want to use the new engineer system they implemented recently it requires dozens of hours scavenging, hundreads of LY travels, scanning planets surface, to find rares amongst an hundred of different materials (with very limited cargo space of course),the engineer will apply a random modification on your module. Ton of grinding , no guarantee you will even have the effect you want.
Stupid ,poorly thought system, unwanted ,unfun, grindy, pretty much like every updates since release.

Ah this game should be moved into MMO too if star citizen is there, this "game" is in no way a simulation.
 

J_C

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So how's game now? is it fun?

I concur, its even worse than before. Now if you want to use the new engineer system they implemented recently it requires dozens of hours scavenging, hundreads of LY travels, scanning planets surface, to find rares amongst an hundred of different materials (with very limited cargo space of course),the engineer will apply a random modification on your module. Ton of grinding , no guarantee you will even have the effect you want.
Stupid ,poorly thought system, unwanted ,unfun, grindy, pretty much like every updates since release.

Ah this game should be moved into MMO too if star citizen is there, this "game" is in no way a simulation.
The enginers part is broken right now, many people agree with that. But that doesn't ruin the whole game, since it is not mandatory to play. It is a fresh expansion, I'm sure it will get balanced later. And you don't know what are you talking about if you say it is not a simulation. It is a very good simulation, with mission design issues.

How stupid is that you dismiss the whole game as not being a simulation just because there are some parts of it which you don't like.

You are free to rate my comment Dumb, idiots. I know you want to.
 
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Mortmal

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well J_C , i was refraining from using the "dumb" emoticon , but since you shot first....
 

J_C

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You're welcome. I know you feel better now.

And I see you rate all of my comments the same way. How easy is to satisfy you...

Fortunately when DU gets his medicine, these rating will Woooosh...disappear. :smug:
 
Unwanted

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J_C

One Bit Studio
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Developer
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Messages
16,947
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Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath

This is so fucking cool. Fans ran the sound of this signal through a spectrum analyzer, and it shows some alien signal. Frontier is preparing for something new and they are putting hints like this into the game. That's why despite all its faults, I can't stop liking this game.



elite: "dangerous"
:smug:
 
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Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
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May 13, 2013
Messages
6,420
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Space Hell
What's up with all complaints about grinding? People in reviews who praised it changed their opinion overnight and all complaining about grinding. Is it like we saw in Frontiers? I mean - have some profitable deals, get better ship, then work on some frights and passenger transfer and trade to get money for even better ship - that kind of grind or I am missing something?
 

Berekän

A life wasted
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Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
3,112
From what I've read the latest expansion introduced a new tier of weapons crafted by some engineers that need a fuckton of grinding to make them. However the resulting weapon/module is not a set piece of equipment, there's RNG involved, don't know if only on the values or also in the type of module itself. While you grinded for a purpose before and you knew that after investing X hours you were going to get your set pbjective now you have to pray all those hours invested don't give you a useless piece of shit.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Developer
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Messages
16,947
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Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
What's up with all complaints about grinding? People in reviews who praised it changed their opinion overnight and all complaining about grinding. Is it like we saw in Frontiers? I mean - have some profitable deals, get better ship, then work on some frights and passenger transfer and trade to get money for even better ship - that kind of grind or I am missing something?
Well in the base game grinding meant that the missions offered very little monetary reward, so you had to finish the same missions over and over again to be able to purchase new equipment. This was somewhat improved with the expansion of activities you can do and some improvement in the mission system (although it could still use improvements).

Now, the grinding mostly comes from the broken engineers crafting mechanics where there is an RNG factor in the whole thing. This will probably fixed or balanced in the near future, but right now is pretty grindy.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Messages
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Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Could someone explain something to me? I was browsing the negative reviews about ED on Steam, and I don't understand that why people, who spent 2-3-500 hours with the game rate it as Not recommended. I mean, even spending 100 hours is enormous time commitment, and 500 hours is just nuts. This must mean that you either enjoy the game quite a lot, or you ar a mazochist. So why do these people rate it as not recommended when they enjoy it enough to spend 500 hours with it?
 

warpig

Incel Resistance Leader
Manlet
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Mar 24, 2013
Messages
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lmaoing @ your life
I played it for about 80 hours so I guess it was fun. I think it's the wasted potential this game has that is causing the massive butthurt. I also don't like the direction the game is taking with the add on (I only read about it): more grinding, some stupid thing with driving a buggy...how about athmospheric flight with different mechanics and ships dedicated to combat in planet's athmosphere, more types of missions, maybe more complex "conflict zone" gameplay etc...nope it's just some shit that doesn't add anything interesting to the game.
 

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