Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[Haplo]

Besides aesthetics and character creation, games such as Stranger tend to have much simpler and less confusing maps.
In Gothic the very first, "tutorial" area is supposed to be a cave, but is actually a pretty big maze, complete with secret passages and door passages every three steps, that made me very confused - who bothered to install so many doors in what was supposed to be a cave?

 

[newtmonkey]

I'm not too surprised Elminage Gothic ended up begin a tough sell.

It relies on not only Wizardry knowledge, but Elminage knowledge. How many people have played Wizardry to any extent now? Even RPG fans? There are even people on the Codex of all places that have not played anything older than Fallout/Baldur's Gate and believe that unless you have story C&C, the game is not an RPG (and therefore not worth playing).

Elminage Original is a much better starting point, but I would argue that even that game relies to some extent on Wizardry knowledge; on top of that, I do believe that Original came out AFTER Gothic on Steam. Most people could not even deal with the interface or having to create a party from scratch. Never mind if your party ends up being underpowered; most people would just give up (even though anyone with any Wiz 1-5 experience would know you can easily get past this).

All we can do is be happy that someone risked bringing these absolute gems to Steam. Elminage 2&3 will never be released on Steam sadly, but at least you can get them on PSP/3DS (seriously, pick up a used PSP and install custom FW so you can install PSP ISOs; while you're at it, install a bunch of a PSX ISOs and you have all Elminage games PLUS near perfect emulation of PSX games). It's better than NO ELMINAGE GAMES AT ALL being released, of course.

 

[Jamma]

I've tried the game 3 times. The first time I got annoyed by the shitty dungeon design of IKEA's door department, and the awful graphics (I would rather play entirely on the mini-map if the first person view is irrelevant to the gameplay).

The second time I realized I have to create a new party and I had no idea what was good, and couldn't be arsed to find out. Grimoire has that part right - you have a quick start button and you can skip party creation. The third time I got pretty far when I got to the second floor of the first dungeons, and had a tough fights with 2-3 casualties. I than got back to town and realized this was a Wizardry style game in terms of respawning, so I ragequit.

So the reasons Elminage Gothic seem bad to me, in order:
1. putting the worst dungeons at the start.
2. Forcing complex party creation on newbies.
3. extremely punishing deaths. This isn't a really a negative, but fact is most players don't want to deal with it.

This is after modding the map and reading I might want to mod xp gains to avoid grinding. Most players would rather uninstall than deal with either.
I might give it another go after I'm done with Grimoire, but I can't say I'm looking forward to dealing with the initial hurdle again. Whatever good qualities the game has aren't shown to the player in the first few hours, and that's when most people are going to drop it.

 

[Mastermind]

I've tried the game 3 times. The first time I got annoyed by the shitty dungeon design of IKEA's door department, and the awful graphics (I would rather play entirely on the mini-map if the first person view is irrelevant to the gameplay).

The second time I realized I have to create a new party and I had no idea what was good, and couldn't be arsed to find out. Grimoire has that part right - you have a quick start button and you can skip party creation. The third time I got pretty far when I got to the second floor of the first dungeons, and had a tough fights with 2-3 casualties. I than got back to town and realized this was a Wizardry style game in terms of respawning, so I ragequit.

So the reasons Elminage Gothic seem bad to me, in order:
1. putting the worst dungeons at the start.
2. Forcing complex party creation on newbies.
3. extremely punishing deaths. This isn't a really a negative, but fact is most players don't want to deal with it.

This is after modding the map and reading I might want to mod xp gains to avoid grinding. Most players would rather uninstall than deal with either.
I might give it another go after I'm done with Grimoire, but I can't say I'm looking forward to dealing with the initial hurdle again. Whatever good qualities the game has aren't shown to the player in the first few hours, and that's when most people are going to drop it.

Play elminage original instead first, much more player friendly. deaths are just as annoying but you can just save often and alt+f4 out of the game and reload until you get access to resurrection spells

 

[Haplo]

You don't really need to grind if you explore thoroughly. The actual need to grind only ever appears in the 3rd, final post-game dungeon. You can even conquer 2 post-game dungeons without grinding.

 

[Matador]

I'm at 4th floor in cave of the ancients, and guys, what amazing bows are dropping in this dungeon, they look insane. I'm tempted to change my brawler to a hunter with medal of power.
My party:

- Ninja (Demon's full-moon ring and Kutneslika)
- Samurai (Muramasa and Silver rapier)
- Brawler with alchemy spells (Dragon Bright Jamadahal)
- Lord (Angel strike bow)
- Bishop
- Alchemist

 

[Dorarnae]

I'm at 4th floor in cave of the ancients, and guys, what amazing bows are dropping in this dungeon, they look insane. I'm tempted to change my brawler to a hunter with medal of power.
My party:

- Ninja (Demon's full-moon ring and Kutneslika)
- Samurai (Muramasa and Silver rapier)
- Brawler with alchemy spells (Dragon Bright Jamadahal)
- Lord (Angel strike bow)
- Bishop
- Alchemist

don't! while it's tempting, the ac ability is VERY good.
changing your bishop would be better(in my opinion), valkyrie gets insane spear in the tower.

 

[Matador]

I like a lot the Brawler, gonna keep it that way. Very rewarding to watch him finish a complete combo. Just got a little greedy with all the new shiny stuff. Also I got a vector knuckle, a little upgrade from the Dragon Bright Jamadahal.

I think I will end the postgame with this party. I like the large number of spell casts the bishop has. Not a big deal now, but I'm sure they will be useful in Ibag tower where you can't use diomente and resource management will become more important. Also identifying on sight to drop crap in the dungeon is very useful.

All we can do is be happy that someone risked bringing these absolute gems to Steam. Elminage 2&3 will never be released on Steam sadly, but at least you can get them on PSP/3DS (seriously, pick up a used PSP and install custom FW so you can install PSP ISOs; while you're at it, install a bunch of a PSX ISOs and you have all Elminage games PLUS near perfect emulation of PSX games). It's better than NO ELMINAGE GAMES AT ALL being released, of course.

Hacked Vita here. Wizardry heaven.

SNES emulator: Wizardry 1-3,5, 6.
PSX: Wizardry 1-5.
PSP: Elminage 1-3.
PS Vita: I purchased Demon Gaze and Stranger on Sword city. And I know there are more blobbers.

 

[Dorarnae]

I like a lot the Brawler, gonna keep it that way. Very rewarding to watch him finish a complete combo. Just got a little greedy with all the new shiny stuff. Also I got a vector knuckle, a little upgrade from the Dragon Bright Jamadahal.

I think I will end the postgame with this party. I like the large number of spell casts the bishop has. Not a big deal now, but I'm sure they will be useful in Ibag tower where you can't use diomente and resource management will become more important. Also identifying on sight to drop crap in the dungeon is very useful.

All we can do is be happy that someone risked bringing these absolute gems to Steam. Elminage 2&3 will never be released on Steam sadly, but at least you can get them on PSP/3DS (seriously, pick up a used PSP and install custom FW so you can install PSP ISOs; while you're at it, install a bunch of a PSX ISOs and you have all Elminage games PLUS near perfect emulation of PSX games). It's better than NO ELMINAGE GAMES AT ALL being released, of course.

Hacked Vita here. Wizardry heaven.

SNES emulator: Wizardry 1-3,5, 6.
PSX: Wizardry 1-5.
PSP: Elminage 1-3.
PS Vita: I purchased Demon Gaze and Stranger on Sword city. And I know there are more blobbers.

Death arm for brawler is pretty good.

 

[newtmonkey]

Hacked Vita here. Wizardry heaven.

SNES emulator: Wizardry 1-3,5, 6.
PSX: Wizardry 1-5.
PSP: Elminage 1-3.
PS Vita: I purchased Demon Gaze and Stranger on Sword city. And I know there are more blobbers.

Don't forget to put Wiz Emp 1&2 and Dimguil on there while you're at it!

 

[Matador]

do you recommend changing characters to devilish race?

 

[Dorarnae]

do you recommend changing characters to devilish race?

it's not really useful in gothic since you can't steal many equipment, maybe the only advantage is you don't really have to worry about their age but they'll probably require more exp to lvl up.

 

[Matador]

Cave of the Ancients beaten. The Legendary Ibag Tower is next. Last 2 floors had some dangerous encounters, but nothing too crazy.

I'm gonna take a walk to take a grasp of what I need to forge to survive.

 

[BlackGoat]

Great game, but I quit around lvl 18 of Ibag

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Eliminage series is created with assumption that you have played Wizardy and know what to do with the level, multi-class etc which at this point is decade old worth of knowledge.

The game is designed in such a way that you have to optimize to progress but there it is nearly impossible to learn what to optimize before like 30 hours unless you open a guide.

The dev needs to explain the natural progression of the system better if they want wider appeal.

 

[Matador]

Anyone knows what Lascorek "lowers enemies speed" does? Does it only affect turn order?

 

[Matador]

More like Ifag Tower

 

[The Fish]

So I clocked about 15 hours of this game ages ago when it first appeared on steam but returning to it now I have no idea wtf I'm doing, is there some sort of guide I can look over to get me up a running again? I seem to remember referencing some japanese guide when I first started. I'm not all that familiar with wizardry.

 

[Matador]

So I clocked about 15 hours of this game ages ago when it first appeared on steam but returning to it now I have no idea wtf I'm doing, is there some sort of guide I can look over to get me up a running again? I seem to remember referencing some japanese guide when I first started. I'm not all that familiar with wizardry.

This one is very good.:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=321865136

Maps, quests, walk through, loot drops, enemies...

You have everything you need if you struggle.

 

[Dorarnae]

yeah skillving is a pain in the butt, swallow killer skill can be useful against them. the sad news is, there are ennemies that are worse than him.
can't wait to read your progress

 

[Cyanide]

Soldier of the Giant Gods was hard with all those status inflicting enemies like those squid heads, whip demons who teleport you into a stone wall, skeleton mantis spiders that deflect attacks, ugly mutant mermaid "dragons" that use an insta-kill breath, enterook mista , level drain and zefeifus, etc

Cave of the ancients had hard hitting enemies with iron defenses due to their AC and many lame human enemies, but features many new monsters never seen on other elminage titles like the bald brawlers, herbalists, those egyptian statues, floating swords and armor, iron giants, etc

 

[Cyanide]

I rather enjoyed the Soldier of the Gods. If I'm not mistaken, its eight levels represent the deepest dungeon encountered in the game up to that point. The concept of exploring the body of a giant was an interesting theme. And the overarching quest of the dungeon, collecting the various body parts to solve a mystery. Wasn't this the dungeon that also introduced mind-flayer type enemies?

Yes, their encounters with their whip demon friends attacking back rows were fun. If they didn't behead my guys, my charmed ninja would do it.

Also:

Those demon ladies were brutal with her absurdly high level drain %

But what does soul trap do? Never saw her use it since I rarely encountered them on floors B3F to B5F

Floors BF6 to B8F are plagued by mermaid mutant ugly "dragons", whip demons, squid heads, spider mantis skeletons, red snakes, etc

 

[turkishronin]

Why does "demon lady" have the same sprite as the noble lady in the tavern?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Why does "demon lady" have the same sprite as the noble lady in the tavern?

Noble ladies have a thing for demons?

 

[turkishronin]

Why does "demon lady" have the same sprite as the noble lady in the tavern?

Noble ladies have a thing for demons?