Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[Dorarnae]

when you say final boss, which one is it? incarnation?

 

[Matador]

when you say final boss, which one is it? incarnation?

No, Nordetanit. Tackle was very useful negating some of his insane regen, and the lord helped me not getting status every turn. I also crafted Drain resistance on my ninja and cast Bifei on her. For some reason Nordetanit didn't recover very well from confussion so I manage to bully them in a few turns while he was hitting himself half of the time and also got some sleeps on him. Couple of Robutis, Oraths and Speed debuffs and the fucker got into the ground.

The ninja only got drained 3 levels at the end of the fight.

Call me crazy but he reminded me about a buffed up Shin Megami Tensei or Persona Boss, got vibes of those fights.

 

[Dorarnae]

you can exit the dungeon and climb back to that floor to find another boss

 

[Matador]

you can exit the dungeon and climb back to that floor to find another boss

I've investigated. Level 1250.

 

[Klatrymadon]

I've been making some headway in this recently, having had it on Steam for years but only really dabbling in it, getting lost on the first floor and marvelling at how delightfully ruthless it was. I'm really loving it. My party's a pretty suboptimal mixed bag (Fighter, Samurai, Priest, Thief, Alchemist, Mage), but I've never been one to spend ages trying to roll the perfect squad. Does anyone have any tips for raising general DPS against rows of 5 or 6 enemies? In this dungeon there are Arbinks which heal themselves at the end of every turn, so unless I manage to land 2-3 solid attacks on one within one turn, it isn't going down. It can occasionally lead to these seemingly endless, unwinnable fights, where one whiffed attack renders the entire party's turn futile. I'm wondering if it was a bad decision to have two Dragonnewts (Thief and Alc) on the back row, too. The idea was that they'd always be able to contribute to offense, but Breath seems to be a waste of a turn most of the time (it deals decent damage when it lands well, but if used regularly its damage output drops to nothing). Short of a massive party restructure, is there a way I can make better use of the back row?

Cheers!

Edit: it's possible I'm just under-levelled, of course...

 

[Haplo]

Hmm, buy a Flamberge from the shop when you can afford it. It launches a fireball attack. Sometimes breaks on use, but an Alchemist can fix it.

Dragonnewts are great IMO. Extreme strength and the breath is genuinely useful. Definitely great Alchemist/summoner material. Also awesome for Fighters, Samurai, Brawlers, etc. - deals significantly more damage then all other races.
But I do question the choice of one for a Thief character. A Thief should definitely focus on extreme Dexterity and Luck - something the Dragonnewts very much lack.

 

[Matador]

You need one more damage dealer. Try to get a ninja to replace the thief or class change him. This way you can deal with traps and increase damage output at the same time.

Like Haplo said the dragon is not a good choice for the Ninja or thief.

 

[Klatrymadon]

Thanks for this! Yeah, I hadn't really factored in the Dragonnewt's stats when I was thinking "everyone on the back row needs some kind of ranged attack", so I might go back to the drawing board with the Thief, at least. What numbers do I need to be able to class-change to a Ninja? I should easily have enough for a Flamberge if I pool the funds so I'll grab one of those ASAP.

Also, is a weapon's 'accuracy' the same as its THAC0, or are these different things altogether? I have weapons that do higher damage than my current ones but which lower the current accuracy rating by -3, so I'm wondering if I'm right to avoid them.

Thanks again!

 

[Haplo]

Very High.

Well, there was some neutral kid ninja you could recruit in an early dungeon, but you needed to have a level 7 bishop or some such.

Or, well, grab a summoner, capture and spirit pact a RedCap ninja at the giant tree 1st floor above ground <- my personal recommendation. Although getting the lovely Replica EX Skill might be tricky, as Spirit Pact party members are assigned an Ex Skill at random.

 

[Klatrymadon]

Ah, that's a great idea! Another thing I've just realised is that my Bishop (perhaps because I used a ready-made one, I can't remember) is an Elf, and therefore a pretty bad 'race' to have up front swinging a Flail around. I don't have any room for them in the back row, either, so a pretty significant restructure is looking likely...

 

[Thac0]

Thanks for this! Yeah, I hadn't really factored in the Dragonnewt's stats when I was thinking "everyone on the back row needs some kind of ranged attack", so I might go back to the drawing board with the Thief, at least. What numbers do I need to be able to class-change to a Ninja? I should easily have enough for a Flamberge if I pool the funds so I'll grab one of those ASAP.

Also, is a weapon's 'accuracy' the same as its THAC0, or are these different things altogether? I have weapons that do higher damage than my current ones but which lower the current accuracy rating by -3, so I'm wondering if I'm right to avoid them.

Thanks again!

Pretty sure accuracy in this game is reversed Thac0, so higher is better. But it works the same way, 5% accuracy boost per point, so its a really important stat.

(Fighter, Samurai, Priest, Thief, Alchemist, Mage)

You can put the priest in the front row for the early game without too much hassle. He wont hit shit with the bad accuracy on maces, but he can wear chain armor and large shields, bringing his AC to 0 pretty quickly.

 

[Thac0]

Also best way to break tanky enemy formations in my experience is Orakh. You get a lot of slots for it and increases the amount of attacks of your damage dealers. A Fighter or Samurai making 4 good strikes with a Flamberge or similar weapon oneshots most early game enemies.

 

[Matador]

Alchemist spellbook is pure incline and fun.

It's the opposite to Sawyer philosophy of balance, weakness and estrogens.

 

[Klatrymadon]

Thanks for the advice, all! Yeah, I've just started using Orakh and it's helping a lot. Since the Bishop can stay in the front row without holding me back too much, I may hold onto him for now, especially since some quests seem to necessitate having one around...

 

[Haplo]

Bishop? Earlier you mentioned cleric.
IMO Bishop has far too slow progression to start with one. He can be okay as a result of multiclassing from other casters after they learn their spells.

 

[Klatrymadon]

Sorry, I was mixing up the terms - the third character along is definitely a Bishop at the moment, so the party composition is F/S/B/T/A/M. If Bishops are pretty bad to begin with - and to be honest mine's been doing little apart from free item identification so far - then it sounds as though my best option at the moment is to replace this one entirely (maybe with a Cleric, using them as advised) and to re-roll a more appropriate Thief. Maybe the Bishop can still tag along for any quests that require one. Cheers!

 

[Matador]

Don't go out without a pure cleric at the beginning, soon you are going to perceive very heavily the lack of healing spells. I think CLeric is the only really mandatory character to carry early game, although mage for early TP spell and Alchemist for crafting are also very nice. For hitting things Fighters, Samurais, Valks, Brawlers and Ninja do well. The other exotic classes are strong but not mandatory.

What bishops give you early game is MONEY although they are very weak in combat, they allow you to spend money on whatever you want. Free identification is great, because the highest amount of costs in your Crawling Enterprise is IDing at greedy Boltac.
Later their main strength is their access to 9 casts of Mage and Priest Spells. This amount and variety of spells is great for combat flexibility and exploration length.

 

[Klatrymadon]

Nice one, this is all really helpful - thanks! I've slotted a level 1 Gnomish Cleric into the Bishop's place for now. I'll probably put 2/3 of the party on standby and try to level the Cleric up - are there any obvious spots for this in the early game? I blew most of my money on the Flamberge so I don't have much to level them up with that way, though I've no idea if buying exp is even worth pursuing...

 

[Matador]

Nice one, this is all really helpful - thanks! I've slotted a level 1 Gnomish Cleric into the Bishop's place for now. I'll probably put 2/3 of the party on standby and try to level the Cleric up - are there any obvious spots for this in the early game? I blew most of my money on the Flamberge so I don't have much to level them up with that way, though I've no idea if buying exp is even worth pursuing...

The best early game leveling spot is the respawning boss on first dungeon 3rd floor, not great, but nothing else around. Later you have a fantastic one farming demons on Igdra Underground Church which will allow you to make new characters if you are not happy with your party, or want to test new ones very fast. I restructured my party there on my walkthrough. I would consider that place the beginning of the midgame and when Elminage Gothic starts to get real good.

I would just get a couple levels and try to explore next dungeon, it's much better than the first, and you will get better weapons, also very important. You will feel how the dungeon quality increases each new one you discover.

 

[Thac0]

Dont bother with Bishops early, putting a character through 13 mage levels followed by 13 cleric levels is a lot faster than levelling a bishop high enough to get late game spells in both schools. They are pretty much purely a late game class for tons of spell slots.
Also you can snack free Identify by having a Bishop waiting at the Inn and only swapping him in to Identify. Somewhat tedious and cheesy but saves a lot of money.

Best super early game levelling spots are the end boss of cave 1 (the hole with the creepy eye things) and the shield dummy on level 1 of Guetella Grotto, your current dungeon.
You can repeat both super quickly by standing in their tile and pressing F. The eye things take long, but pose no threat with an AC of 0 and give 4000xp per fight. Getting to them is annoying tho as the caves of Tsun Kurn are very labyrinthian.
The dummy on Guetella Grotto is easy to get to and easy to kill in a single turn. He only gives 1000 xp tho so you level slower than at the hole in my experience.

 

[Klatrymadon]

Thanks a lot! I've actually gone back to Tsun-Kurn B3 to find the demon child (might as well have a Ninja in the stables if I can), so I'll stop off to fight the grinning eye guys for a while. I'll look for the shield dummy too, although on the first floor of the Grotto my new Cleric is at serious risk of being one-shotted by lizard-men.

I'm really loving how convoluted the labyrinths are so far, and knowing these are the tip of the iceberg is pretty hilarious. I'm on a big dungeon crawler kick at the moment (just started going through all the PS1 Wiz remakes on my tiny CRT), but nothing else I'm playing manages to feel as palpably oppressive, claustrophobic and demented as this. Doorways upon doorways upon doorways, all circling back around to each other or leading to yet more dead ends. There was a point where I ran out of maps on Tsun-Kurn B2 (I've been trying not to brute-force my out of the intended limitation by buying hundreds of them), and finding my way back out felt genuinely hopeless. I love it.

 

[Haplo]

A few beginning levels can be easily and quickly gotten from the trainer in town - leave 1-2 characters in the party capable of defeating him fast and (maybe) healing and you can get a few levels rapidly.

 

[Dorarnae]

or the statue in the second dungeon.

 

[rnadmo_uesr]

This may be somewhat unrelated but wathever happened to the eminage 2/3 and empire 1 partial translations made by aweigh? The links he posted earlier on this thread are dead.

 

[Reality]

Can anyone explain activation chance for Weapon and Armor Break? Is it just a level difference formula or is it related to how well you score over their AC?