Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[Dorarnae]

Polettes are fun. But just wait till you meet their upgrades, Stargazers. Who in addition to being massively stronger, also hunt in packs.

Think I've never managed to beat them. Even surviving the first volley is difficult.

oh yeah, that and belial are fun. can't wait to see his reaction lol.

 

[Haplo]

Well, at least Belial can be nuked.

 

[Matador]

How you recover Skill points? I can't summon my Ninja Replica.

 

[Jason Liang]

You have to stay in one of the two most expensive suites at the Inn. No recovery for the stables.

 

[Matador]

I found 2 weapons for my Brawler that seem to work different than the usual: Blue Strike and Heart Breaker. They have very good stats but:

They don't combo but make 2 fixed attacks with high damage. Sometimes is better than my Dragon Bright Jamadahal and sometimes worse if I get a good combo.

I think I'm gonna keep the Dragon Bright Jamadahal until I get the Dark Claws. No combos in the brawler seems boring.

Also found what seems the final mainhand weapon for my Ninja to substitute the Demon's Full Moon Ring. 15% Behead also, before my class extra, and crafting it.

Finally I got the Obokolope for my Samurai offhand. It's cursed but look at the stats, crafted Uncurse and double damage to Gods on it:

 

[Haplo]

I think Samurais can dual two main hand weapons? Or am I confusing games?

 

[Matador]

I think Samurais can dual two main hand weapons? Or am I confusing games?

Yes they can. I have Muramasa on main hand and the Obokolope offhand.

 

[Matador]

Level 150
-90 AC
~3K HP
+1K HP attackS
Weapon Breaking
His worse resistance to status ailments is 70%.

OK. BELIAL.

I guess I'm underleveled. Maybe I should farm XP and look for better ores for my equipment. I'm not even close to beat some of the new guys that are appearing in floor 12. For sure the grind is not going to be in the tower.

 

[Haplo]

Yep, he's fun, isn't he :D

Managed to down him a few times... but that always cost me a lot of resources.

 

[aweigh]

Polettes and Stargazers are susceptible to paralyze, if I remember right.

Skillving's susceptible to confuse.

Belial isn't susceptible to anything, tho. Not that I can remember right now.

 

[Matador]

His worse resistance to status is 70%. Forgot to put that on the report.

 

[Haplo]

Stargazers can be Status afflicted. Great. But you need to survive first
And hitting someone of their level with a Status ailment isn't that straightforward either, AFAIR (unless you're close to that level yourself, that is).

 

[Matador]

Polettes and Stargazers are susceptible to paralyze, if I remember right.

Skillving's susceptible to confuse.

Belial isn't susceptible to anything, tho. Not that I can remember right now.

Right now:
Polettes are dangerous but beatable.
Skillving is a straight up Bitch. Harmless
Belial unbeatable.

Skillving was like him at one moment, but levels,better AC on my frontline and confusing him made him beatable. But I can't fathom how to surmount his -90 AC and 3KHP with his status immunity.

I guess maybe I have to nuke him with spells, but that implies a LOT of changes in the gear my characters wear and the enchantments on it.

What level range your characters had when you beat Ibag tower guys?

 

[aweigh]

Try out Elnam on Belial. Can't remember if it was worth using or not.

 

[Matador]

Try out Elnam on Belial. Can't remember if it was worth using or not.

Seeing this It's almost sure that the devs intended you to use magic in general, and cleric spells in particular. They are his only impregnable defenses. BUT 3K HP is tough and losing some AC on my characters to adjust the crafting and equipment are a high price.

I see pointless to try several rounds of Robuti to reduce his AC. He is too dangerous.

Fuck him. How much was his AC on 3DS version?

 

[aweigh]

They nerfed him to -45 AC or thereabouts on 3DS version. Majority of enemies were nerfed in the 3DS version.

EDIT: Google translation from the japanese wiki:

Belial

• Weapon armor destruction addition strength 50 + destruction stigma + double attack with dark torrent and AC of -92 threat.
• In the 3DS version, I got an extreme correction of AC10. However, the firepower remains the same, and the rear guard also goes to the avant-garde at the end of the turn.
  (Rather, you can no longer benefit from AC drop by equipping an AC drop disable weapon.)
  
• AC can reduce attack hits at -55, but due to firepower, 1-2 hits will cause about 300 damage. In addition, because armor destruction + continuous attack, low LV is often done even if AC is low.
• One of the exceptional monsters in the tower that the boss class wanders as a group.
• Fortunately, sleep resistance is 75%, so if you succeed in getting it to sleep, you can easily defeat it.
• In addition, since the HP of the stigma of stagnation will decrease without permission, if you surpass a few turns, you will be able to defeat even one damage.

Not sure if this google translation is correct, but if it is then this means in the 3DS version they actually gave him positive AC which means he has no defenses, or almost no physical defense.

 

[Haplo]

What level range your characters had when you beat Ibag tower guys?

Well, I must shamefully admit that I didn't.
Also felt woefully short on levels to beat the likes of Stargazers.

Maybe I should go back and push trough some day.

 

[Haplo]

Try out Elnam on Belial. Can't remember if it was worth using or not.

Seeing this It's almost sure that the devs intended you to use magic in general, and cleric spells in particular. They are his only impregnable defenses. BUT 3K HP is tough and losing some AC on my characters to adjust the crafting and equipment are a high price.

I see pointless to try several rounds of Robuti to reduce his AC. He is too dangerous.

Fuck him. How much was his AC on 3DS version?

Yeah, I guess in my case this kinda helped:

Still needed to burn more spell slots then probably worth it.

 

[Matador]

I had another roadblocks in this game and Belial is the first time I genuinely think some enemy must be nerfed.

Gonna grind levels to get stronger. Must get to the end, too close now.

 

[Dorarnae]

They nerfed him to -45 AC or thereabouts on 3DS version. Majority of enemies were nerfed in the 3DS version.

EDIT: Google translation from the japanese wiki:

Belial

• Weapon armor destruction addition strength 50 + destruction stigma + double attack with dark torrent and AC of -92 threat.
• In the 3DS version, I got an extreme correction of AC10. However, the firepower remains the same, and the rear guard also goes to the avant-garde at the end of the turn.
  (Rather, you can no longer benefit from AC drop by equipping an AC drop disable weapon.)
  
• AC can reduce attack hits at -55, but due to firepower, 1-2 hits will cause about 300 damage. In addition, because armor destruction + continuous attack, low LV is often done even if AC is low.
• One of the exceptional monsters in the tower that the boss class wanders as a group.
• Fortunately, sleep resistance is 75%, so if you succeed in getting it to sleep, you can easily defeat it.
• In addition, since the HP of the stigma of stagnation will decrease without permission, if you surpass a few turns, you will be able to defeat even one damage.

Not sure if this google translation is correct, but if it is then this means in the 3DS version they actually gave him positive AC which means he has no defenses, or almost no physical defense.

yeah he's a lot easier on 3ds because he has no defence.

could always have Gaia summoned and use that alchemy spell to direct all attack on him, he should be able to tank it a bit I think? should give enough time to nuke him.

 

[Dorarnae]

I had another roadblocks in this game and Belial is the first time I genuinely think some enemy must be nerfed.

Gonna grind levels to get stronger. Must get to the end, too close now.

just wait til you meet a group of 4-5 star gazer, it's even worse. lol.

 

[Dorarnae]

What level range your characters had when you beat Ibag tower guys?

Well, I must shamefully admit that I didn't.
Also felt woefully short on levels to beat the likes of Stargazers.

Maybe I should go back and push trough some day.

you dont have to ''beat'' them though, you can use some dove bell to remove all fixed encounter, so you can reach the top without too much trouble.

 

[Matador]

15F shortcut open. 5 floors to go!

 

[Matador]

Ok Final Boss beaten at last. Good fight as usual in this game. What a ride!

I have to say I'm not a big fan of Ibag tower last 10 floors. Some of the enemies there included the final boss require a lot of grind to be able to stand a chance against them.

First ten floors with Skillvings and friends where scary at first but beatable with good tactics and some levels, so I like them a lot. Very fun fights.

The parts of the game I enjoyed the most and have the best progression/difficulty curve are from Igdra Underground Church to the Sanctum, the post-game until ~Ibag tower 10th floor is also very good.

Overall this is one of my favourite games ever, it makes so many things well and have a lot of content. Enemy and encounter design, party progression, classes, skills, spell system, itemization, some great dungeons. It's insane how underrated this game is. The only thing I would change is that the game worked on mania mode, only being able to save in town (like on Stranger on sword City) adjusting some enemy difficulty, to give the game that classic wizardry tension where you decide if you push further into the dungeon or risk losing a lot of progress, giving more importance to resource management. The save scumming harms the game in my opinion.

I hope Starfish gifts us with another hardcore quality blobber soon, there are no substitutes for what they do out there.

I think I'm gonna try to play PS1 Wiz 5 next. I played the first level some time ago, and I think I'm in the mood for more Wizardry. Will play it only saving on town, want that experience.

 

[Hrymr]

The only thing I would change is that the game worked on mania mode, only being able to save in town (like on Stranger on sword City) adjusting some enemy difficulty, to give the game that classic wizardry tension where you decide if you push further into the dungeon or risk losing a lot of progress, giving more importance to resource management. The save scumming harms the game in my opinion.

When I was playing for the first time I didn't know that there is an option to save in the dungeon, so I played this way until I saw someone on Codex mentioning it. Learning that you can save scum in dungeons was a bit of a disappointment, but it made made sense to me, since the difficulty doesn't support this approach (especially the later dungeons).