Empire of Sin - Brenda and John Romero's turn-based Mafia strategy

[True Ukrainian]

You actually need people to like the base game before you can sell DLC.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

That's incredibly meta if the game actively extorts you as you play it. I take back everything I said, genius.

From much earlier itt:

It seems my first guess was correct.

The setting has potential for a tactical game including varied objectives. They just better not go soft on the subject matter by limiting the crime to bootlegging only, it should have the full spectrum of crime businesses together with rival gangs getting pissed off if you encroach on their market in whores or gambling. Also gang diplomacy in addition to cop corruption mechanics.

DLC racketeering is in from day 1.

 

[AdamReith]

Oh I don't need to take back what I said, some moderator anonymously did it for me; thanks you censorious piece of shit.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Ban Infinitron .

 

[good fucking shit happen]

Ban Infinitron .

Did he delete my history lesson? I thought he was pretty based after posting about Peripeteia on the front page but if he censors historical truths then I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Ban Infinitron .

Did he delete my history lesson? I thought he was pretty based after posting about Peripeteia on the front page but if he censors historical truths then I'm not so sure anymore.

Can't have any of that in a thread of a game whose creator repeatedly said that she's very inspired by actual history of that era.

 

[Saduj]

Frustrating as hell that this type of game should be really hard to fuck up but people keep fucking it up, making the genre seem commercially questionable when in reality there is unmet demand...

 

[Zanzoken]

Frustrating as hell that this type of game should be really hard to fuck up but people keep fucking it up, making the genre seem commercially questionable when in reality there is unmet demand...

Agreed. I don't know what it is that makes it so hard for people to look at what the exemplars of a certain genre did, and properly adapt those into a new piece.

I suspect in this case it's because the developers were more worried about LARPing their fantasy version of the setting than creating good gameplay. Hence why so much of the marketing is focused on window dressing like NPCs and dialogue.

 

[Fronzel Neekburm]

I wonder what Cleve has to say about Brenda making a game.

Cleve tried to warn everyone about Brenda...

 

[Blaine]

This was exactly what we needed in a game with a Prohibition-era organized crime theme: gender equality and racial diversity.

Clearly, bigotry is the only possible reason this game could have bombed!

 

[Boleskine]

 

[good fucking shit happen]

This was exactly what we needed in a game with a Prohibition-era organized crime theme: gender equality and racial diversity.

This is what happens when you delete my informative posts. This retard here doesn't even know that Ali Caponi was a mixed race queer big bodied BLACK woman presenting as a man.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Damn, was really looking forward to this. Well, will check it out later when some patches come, maybe it will br worth s playthrough

 

[Aemar]

Some of you people were actually expecting a proper Prohibition era gangster game from a dude that looks like this.

 

[Ezeekiel]

Down to only 44% positive reviews on steam now. Damn.

 

[Harthwain]

Anyone disappointed in Empire of Sin should keep an eye on City of Gangsters (no, I don't mean Omerta: City of Gangsters):

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Anyone disappointed in Empire of Sin should keep an eye on City of Gangsters (no, I don't mean Omerta: City of Gangsters):

My heart’s already been broken once.

 

[sser]

It's funny how if the dev isn't careful all that glitzy 3D just ends up mucking the readability of those maps. Gangsters had that weekly prep-map in top-down 2D and you could read almost everything on the fly, and then if you needed to comb for select businesses (like a bingo hall to hide a gambling den in), then you used the rolodex. But in 3D the tilted viewpoint makes all of that much harder to do without overcrowding everything.

 

[Zanzoken]

Here's the blueprint for how to make a proper gangster-themed TB tactics / management sim game.

Create a Mount & Blade like sandbox world. But:
- Instead of an entire country to fight over, you just have a city.
- Instead of kingdoms, you have crime families.
- Instead of fiefs, you have rackets.
- Instead of kings & lords, you have bosses and made men.

Just like in M&B, the player starts as a nobody, just looking to acquire wealth & power.
You only get petty jobs at first, but if you do well, you can ally with one of the families as an associate (i.e. like a mercenary in M&B).
Then if you really prove yourself, the boss will make you a made man (i.e. like a vassalage in M&B).
And once you're in the family and build a lot of influence, you can make a play to become the new boss, or split off and start a family of your own.

The tactical layer should be something like Battle Brothers, with deep turn-based tactics and a crew of personal bodyguards that are procedurally-generated but distinguished by a robust character system. Lots of backstories, stats, traits, quirks, nicknames, etc to make your NPCs feel unique. These bodyguards should level up and get stronger as they grow from novice footpads to hardened criminals, but the power curve needs to be somewhat shallow. This makes it easier to replace losses -- you're having gunfights, which means people should be getting killed from time to time -- and also avoids a common pitfall in TB tactics games where max-level parties make everything a faceroll.

Rackets should be fairly simple -- maybe a few things to upgrade here and there, but mostly they are just there to feed you money and resources, so you can buy and equip more thugs, which allows you to conquer more rackets, which gives you more money and resources...

The last feature worth noting -- and this is very key -- is diplomacy. Not just between gangster factions, but also with the law, because the legal system is just as big of a risk to your gangster career as your rivals are. The ultra-violence you commit to expand your power should be counter-balanced by the notoriety it generates with the authorities, and the game should have appropriate mechanics to reflect that. The bigger you get, the better your chances of getting nailed. But of course, the player should have some room to maneuver here as well, such as bribing cops and politicians, etc.

It's really not that hard of a concept, which makes it all the more confusing why no one has been able to do it.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Here's the blueprint for how to make a proper gangster-themed TB tactics / management sim game.

Create a Mount & Blade like sandbox world. But:
- Instead of an entire country to fight over, you just have a city.
- Instead of kingdoms, you have crime families.
- Instead of fiefs, you have rackets.
- Instead of kings & lords, you have bosses and made men.

Just like in M&B, the player starts as a nobody, just looking to acquire wealth & power.
You only get petty jobs at first, but if you do well, you can ally with one of the families as an associate (i.e. like a mercenary in M&B).
Then if you really prove yourself, the boss will make you a made man (i.e. like a vassalage in M&B).
And once you're in the family and build a lot of influence, you can make a play to become the new boss, or split off and start a family of your own.

The tactical layer should be something like Battle Brothers, with deep turn-based tactics and a crew of personal bodyguards that are procedurally-generated but distinguished by a robust character system. Lots of backstories, stats, traits, quirks, nicknames, etc to make your NPCs feel unique. These bodyguards should level up and get stronger as they grow from novice footpads to hardened criminals, but the power curve needs to be somewhat shallow. This makes it easier to replace losses -- you're having gunfights, which means people should be getting killed from time to time -- and also avoids a common pitfall in TB tactics games where max-level parties make everything a faceroll.

Rackets should be fairly simple -- maybe a few things to upgrade here and there, but mostly they are just there to feed you money and resources, so you can buy and equip more thugs, which allows you to conquer more rackets, which gives you more money and resources...

The last feature worth noting -- and this is very key -- is diplomacy. Not just between gangster factions, but also with the law, because the legal system is just as big of a risk to your gangster career as your rivals are. The ultra-violence you commit to expand your power should be counter-balanced by the notoriety it generates with the authorities, and the game should have appropriate mechanics to reflect that. The bigger you get, the better your chances of getting nailed. But of course, the player should have some room to maneuver here as well, such as bribing cops and politicians, etc.

It's really not that hard of a concept, which makes it all the more confusing why no one has been able to do it.

You just described Gangsters: Organized Crime.

 

[Harthwain]

You just described Gangsters: Organized Crime.

Someone should just make a remake.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Someone should just make a remake.

Someone should just mod it so you can get more than eight squads. Then it’ll be perfect.

 

[luj1]

Empire of bums

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Down to only 44% positive reviews on steam now. Damn.

42%.

 

[udm]

Get woke, go broke