Empire of Sin - Brenda and John Romero's turn-based Mafia strategy

[Nutria]

On Mobygames she's listed as one of 3 writers for JA2. There's 2 more credited for "additional writing", so apparently she had a pretty significant role. There wasn't any part of JA2 where the writing was less than excellent, so it's kind of hard to bash her as just some random ho who never did anything for games unless you're really trying to.

 

[Infinitron]

Looks like Paradox are uploading videos of the panels that weren't livestreamed:

Industry veteran Brenda Romero grew up in Ogdensburg (New York). Ogdensburg plays a big part in the American prohibition history. And as it turns out, it also played a huge part in Game Director Brenda’s decision to make Empire of Sin.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[LESS T_T]

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...mpire_of_Sins_complex_relationship_system.php

Brenda Romero breaks down Empire of Sin's complex relationship system

Empire of Sin is an idea that's been sitting in Brenda Romero's head for more than 20 years. She's always wanted to build a deep strategy system around a 1920s Chicago aesthetic where mobsters control the city through running rackets and taking out their criminal competition.

Empire of Sin, developed by Romero Games and published by Paradox Interactive, is a strategy management game with turn-based combat sequences, similar to XCOM, where you control one of many semi-fictional mob bosses from gangster history. While the parameters of every roguelike playthrough can be changed (settings that dictate how many bosses are active, how big the city is, and the like can be adjusted), the ultimate goal is to take down every other boss and dominate the city.

The main idea that sets Empire of Sin apart from other management sims is a deep and autonomous character interaction system. Throughout lengthy campaigns, you can recruit NPCs to help guard stash houses, fight alongside you, and carry out hits. These NPCs can suffer and benefit from a long list of passive and active effects throughout a run.

"I would hope that players become attached to their characters, that they do develop favorites. That they know that these two characters are sort of uniquely suited to each other and if they're left together, odds are that they might fall in love," Brenda Romero told Gamasutra. "But I also love the idea of surprising players with the stories that are told. If you play a game and say with Maria Rodriguez that by the end of the game your Maria Rodriguez is different than my Maria Rodriguez."

Units can become alcoholics, fall in love with someone else, go insane from continuous violence, and even get a sexually transmitted disease. Each effect has different impacts on characters, if a unit falls in love and unit they fall in love with dies, they may go on a senseless rampage. It could affect their accuracy, their health, and their obedience in combat sequences. All these things, which Romero says are both superpowers and super weaknesses, can vary dramatically from playthrough to playthrough.

"It works the same way it does in the real world. So prolonged exposure to something, right?" Romero said. "People talk about love at first sight but odds are it's not going to work out. Prolonged exposure to a thing can either provoke a trait or cause a trait."

Romero has every character and effect laid out in multiple spreadsheets, including one that lists every character and every trait they have and others that list every trait, the things that affect those traits, and the things that those traits effect.

"One character might come into the game with shell shock, they could partner up with a doctor for quite a while [and then] form a friendship with that doctor. They might end up getting better as a result of that," she said. "By the same token, somebody can come into the game with absolutely no shell shock at all can go through a battle and almost lose their life and develop it.

"You can't have human-on-human conflict at scale without a system," she added. The system in Empire of Sin is completely built off the player's choices -- how they choose to build their empire will influence what their soldiers do. Own too many brothels and you could contract more STDs, put someone in work at a brewery for too long and they could become an alcoholic.

"Maybe [Maria] really just has a thirst for combat, and I as the player was trying to get through with a lot of sabotage and a lot of stuff that wasn't just straight to the metal. She could betray me or something could happen because she doesn't like the route I'm taking," Romero said. "I love how the characters evolve. They have set personalities, but I love how those personalities evolve over time as a direct result of what the player does."

These systems are supposed to work on a granular level and affect each episode of combat as well. Say Maria's lover gets shot in battle, she'll go into a rage and refuse to back down. If she had a line of sight on who the killer was, she'll go straight for them. If she doesn't then she'll direct that rage at the whole enemy squad.

Romero doesn't know how many traits and effects she'll have in the game as she wants to "get as many as she can fit in" up until the game ships in 2020. There are some natural limitations though, as she doesn't want to add elements that might be confusing to the player. Players should know what STDs and alcoholism are and how they affect their soldiers generally. She doesn't want to have an in-game directory.

"All of this has to be just logically think about it and you sort of figure out how it should affect play," Romero said. "So the first is dependent on us as game designers to make sure that it's telegraphed so that you as a player can see it and you know how it's affecting gameplay."

Each in-game character sheet has indications of how certain events affect them, whether they are compatible with another character or whether or not they agree with one of your actions. Those indicators aren't there all the time, and Romero says finding a balance about how often they should alert the player about different things that are affecting them.

"The biggest challenge is finding out where the dial is. How often do we need to let that happen? It's always funny when it happens to somebody for the first time," Romero said. "They think it's the coolest thing but then, if it keeps happening, it really quickly becomes not a cool thing."

Romero says the key to figuring out the right spot is constant playtests. A game like Empire of Sin can have different effects simulated through playthroughs by just programming all the choices a player would make. The only way to see how those significant life events, falling in love or contracting a disease, will affect the player is by having them go through the game naturally.

 

[CaffeineConquistador]

Empire of Sin, developed by Romero Games and published by Paradox Interactive, is a strategy management game with turn-based combat sequences, similar to XCOM, where you control one of many semi-fictional mob bosses from gangster history.

Hmm, it is a safe way for P-Dox to get around the Jewish question, since many of the top (and worst examples of humanity) mob bosses they’re basing from were kikes.

 

[Nutria]

Jews were big in organized crime a generation before that. If you care so much about them, at least try to get it right?

 

[Jimmious]

Empire of Sin, developed by Romero Games and published by Paradox Interactive, is a strategy management game with turn-based combat sequences, similar to XCOM, where you control one of many semi-fictional mob bosses from gangster history.

Hmm, it is a safe way for P-Dox to get around the Jewish question, since many of the top (and worst examples of humanity) mob bosses they’re basing from were kikes.

Let's see if this random accusation fact checks:

The five in game bosses we know about so far
Al Capone - Not jewish
Goldie Garneu - Fictional
Daniel McKee Jackson - a real-life African American mob boss. He was a funeral director and gambler. Not jewish
Dion "Dean" O'Banion - Irish Catholic, not jewish
Stephanie St.Clair - African-American independent crime boss in New York City, not jewish

Only one is fictional, all others were definetely not jewish. What a load of crap.

 

[Hellion]

Is anyone even following this game?

Anyway, unsurprisingly, it's been delayed to "Fall 2020" (original release date "Q2 2020").

 

[Burning Bridges]

Is anyone even following this game?

What for? To live through the story of the Mitsoda couple and Dead State a second time?

 

[Infinitron]

Is anyone even following this game?

I don't think there's been any news about it since last year (until this announcement).

 

[Zombra]

Is anyone even following this game?

I like the idea of the game and what they say they're trying to do. So I'm subscribed to this thread. That's about it.

 

[Nutria]

It's got media hype behind it, so I assume it has money and connections behind it, so it will probably be released. Nothing I've seen yet tells me if it's actually going to be good.

 

[luj1]

Is anyone even following this game?

Anyway, unsurprisingly, it's been delayed to "Fall 2020" (original release date "Q2 2020").

Literally looks like an obituary

 

[Zep Zepo]

Romero is gonna make you his bitch's bitch!

Zep--

 

[Infinitron]

Spoiler

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

Al flanked by a woman and an eggplant. I see they're going for historical realism.

 

[Tigranes]

You worry about your social justice, me, I'm more concerned that half of the game is apparently a bad browser version of Theme Hospital:

 

[The_Mask]

That's just the bird-eye view.

The game is essentially a mod. They were/are very transparent about that from the beginning. This is why the game will (as far as I understand) be highly moddable and customizable. Meaning those buildings are just a basic template for a person with a lot of imagination and time on their hands to make stuff even better/majestic.
I'm optimistic.

 

[Alienman]

Mods will fix it gets a whole new meaning.

 

[Zanzoken]

I was expecting a mix of pozzed and retarded, and I am not disappointed.

Maria, one of the first gangsters you'll probably meet, quickly embroiled me in her dramatic life.

Because nothing says 1920s gangland like boyfriend drama. Who wants to bet Maria secretly has a heart of gold despite being a "gangster".

Elvira, a 70-year-old brothel owner based on John Romero's great-grandmother... she can use drugs to control minds.

As my gang sauntered down the streets of Chicago... we encountered a bloke with a missing wallet, and a few seconds later we were in combat with the thugs who'd pinched it.

More thrilling quest design. This would barely cut it as the tutorial mission in a Batman beat 'em up.

Before long I had two neighborhoods largely under my control... None of my employees actually died, so maybe I'm not such a bad boss after all.

So several gunfights -- including one against a rival boss where the player's best character abandoned the fight halfway through -- and nobody died? Hopefully the difficulty was just set to "journalist", otherwise I'm not sure how you could actually lose in this game.

Empire of Sin lets you recruit and nurture a gang drawn from a pool of 60 crooks...

This alone is reason enough not to play the game, imo. A lot of the fun of X-Com style games is how your team evolves over time from generic mooks to treasured NPCs. I have no interest in being stuck with a bunch of pre-mades written by the soyed-out dudes and pink-haired chicks who pass as game writers nowadays.

 

[Aemar]

I have no interest in being stuck with a bunch of pre-mades written by the soyed-out dudes and pink-haired chicks who pass as game writers nowadays.

You have random grandmas as game bosses. Expect any conceivable type of characters out there except the ones that were actually inspired by the Chicago's 1920s underworld.

 

[Infinitron]

Elvira Duarte is not only a mobster boss in Empire of Sin, she is also based on industry legend John Romero’s real life great-grandmother. From the team behind Empire of Sin: happy Mother's Day to all mobster matriarchs out there! Find out more: https://www.empireofsingame.com

EDIT: OK they're not too hung up on realism here.

 

[Zanzoken]

EDIT: OK they're not too hung up on realism here.

Then they should adjust how they're marketing the game. If they want to say "inspired by" or whatever then fine, but they're marketing this as a period piece which is quite disingenuous.

From the official Steam page:

Empire of Sin, the strategy game from Romero Games and Paradox Interactive, puts you at the heart of the ruthless criminal underworld of 1920s Prohibition-era Chicago. It’s up to you to hustle, charm and intimidate your way to the top of the pile and do whatever it takes to stay there. This character-driven game puts players smack dab in the glitz and glamor of roaring 20s all while having them work behind the scenes in the gritty underbelly of organized crime.

Explore a Living, Breathing City: Take to the streets of vibrant 1920s Chicago and its distinct neighborhoods, such as Little Italy or West Loop, with real historical landmarks and events. Interact with a full cast of over 60 living, breathing characters with backgrounds that inform how they react to what you or other characters do. Each recruitable character has traits and relationships that significantly affect gameplay and vice versa. Schmooze, coerce, seduce, threaten, or kill them to get your way.

 

[The_Mask]

 

[The_Mask]

The stream has been up for a while. I'm not sure people are straight-up clamoring, but just in case there is someone idle...