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Europa Universalis IV

Lucumo

Educated
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
947
I wish EUIV would roll back to before they overbuilt the monstrous mana systems and mission chains. Maybe sometime around Wealth of Nations and Res Publica.
Watched bits and pieces of Florryworry recently (who seems to have gone off the deep end) and all the mission stuff seems ridiculous aka you get huge amounts of claims and even cores sometimes easily. So blobbing seems way easier than it used to be.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,636
Development should have grown naturally with mana being a way of augmenting or directing it.

I wish EUIV would roll back to before they overbuilt the monstrous mana systems and mission chains. Maybe sometime around Wealth of Nations and Res Publica.
Watched bits and pieces of Florryworry recently (who seems to have gone off the deep end) and all the mission stuff seems ridiculous aka you get huge amounts of claims and even cores sometimes easily. So blobbing seems way easier than it used to be.

Claims tend to be mostly irrelevant, it means saving some mana which can let you blob slightly quicker but the main impediment is still winning wars.

The bigger buff mission trees give is permanent modifiers, almost every new tree is littered with them.
 

Hace El Oso

Arcane
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Jan 5, 2020
Messages
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Bogotá
Mana's been in the game since release. In fact, on release, even buildings cost you mana (in addition to money). The main decline came when they allowed developing provinces using mana (insanely shit decision, any attempts at simulation go out the window with that one) and when they did the tech group overhaul

I know, I mean when the mana ‘systems’ grew to dominate the game.

Taking away the technology groups is another point of decline I’d forgotten. Westernizing was fun and made sense. Locking the real savages into their abysmal tech groups even more so.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
7,077
I know, I mean when the mana ‘systems’ grew to dominate the game.
Seems like that was the moment the game released, tbh. At this point in time, there's 2 mods I'd recommend people to play depending on their preference. MEIOU, which minimizes mana as much as it can and goes the simulationist path with pops and the like, and Anbennar, which takes nu-Paradox design and brings it to its natural conclusion featuring loads of map painting and ridiculously strong missions trees, but accompanied by bucketloads of flavor (so that playing a country is aking to following a story). Paradox clearly fell in love with Anbennar to the point where they copy stuff from them, so that's where the game is gradually moving towards.
 
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If you want a more vanilla experience w/o massive ahistoric blobbing then you can also try Voltaire's nightmare, which basically slows the game down by limiting the "world" to the european theatre with far more provinces. So France can't take half of England in a single war. It does run a lot slower than vanilla or Anbennar though, which is odd as its mostly vanilla mechanics so it must have some really inefficient coding somewhere.
 

Hace El Oso

Arcane
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Bogotá
Seems like that was the moment the game released, tbh. At this point in time, there's 2 mods I'd recommend people to play depending on their preference. MEIOU, which minimizes mana as much as it can and goes the simulationist path with pops and the like, and Anbennar, which takes nu-Paradox design and brings it to its natural conclusion featuring loads of map painting and ridiculously strong missions trees, but accompanied by bucketloads of flavor (so that playing a country is aking to following a story). Paradox clearly fell in love with Anbennar to the point where they copy stuff from them, so that's where the game is gradually moving towards.

It’s a matter of degrees.

I stopped playing MEIOU with the 2.0 release when tech groups were removed, along with westernization, and they introduced institutions and pops.
Suddenly 90% of the population and economic/development weight of Planet Earth was based in China, India and East Africa, in that order. I’ve probably never been more disappointed with a mod release, though I know you said in the past it was fixed somewhat.
 
Last edited:

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
7,077
Seems like that was the moment the game released, tbh. At this point in time, there's 2 mods I'd recommend people to play depending on their preference. MEIOU, which minimizes mana as much as it can and goes the simulationist path with pops and the like, and Anbennar, which takes nu-Paradox design and brings it to its natural conclusion featuring loads of map painting and ridiculously strong missions trees, but accompanied by bucketloads of flavor (so that playing a country is aking to following a story). Paradox clearly fell in love with Anbennar to the point where they copy stuff from them, so that's where the game is gradually moving towards.

It’s a matter of degrees.

I stopped playing MEIOU with 2.0 when tech groups were removed, along with westernization, and they introduced institutions and pops.
Suddenly 90% of the population and economic/development weight of Planet Earth was based in China, India and East Africa, in that order. I’ve probably never been more disappointed with a mod release, though I know you said in the past it was fixed somewhat.
institutions are, in essence, the old tech groups in MEIOU – they reworked the spread mechanic, and getting one as a non-westener was difficult to the point some savage AI was unlikely to achieve it (basically, you had to pass various reforms in your country to allow for such institutions to be adopted, said reforms requiring a high degree of state bureaucracy and control, which take a long time and concentrated effort to raise).

I haven't really noticed much issues with Chinks and co. – wealthy for sure, but inevitably lagging behind in techs to where they're mostly just a tempting target for a prospective colonizer. Haven't played in a long while though – waiting for a major release to give it another spin.
 
Joined
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Italy
Some years ago I stopped playing EU4, due to it being too easy to blob out of control.
try anbennar mod. only few selected nations can really blob, and when you do, you're struck with absolutely cataclysmic catastrophes, most of whose can take you back to square 0, or further back.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Italy
Paradox clearly fell in love with Anbennar to the point where they copy stuff from them
no, that's just common paradox behaviour. they do the same with stellaris, copying mods and selling back their features years later. i don't follow, but i can't see why they shouldn't be doing this with hoi and ck too.
 
Joined
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Messages
9,565
Location
Italy
getting one as a non-westener was difficult to the point some savage AI was unlikely to achieve it
depends. i recall some versions where getting them as westerners had the lowest probability. it must have been around when players were forced to have half their advisors spawn as females. everywhere through the world. totally accurate.
 

Higher Game

Arcane
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
13,722
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Female Vagina
Dithmarschen.png


Don't mess with the peasants. :mob:

Would have easily been over 3k devleopment if Commonwealth didn't rival me out of the blue. Should have curried more favors earlier for trust. After that, Germany and Ottomans are easy targets.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,565
Location
Italy
i wish war calls would be discussed beforehand. i hate when i have all my plates full already, no manpower, and some asshole "hey, i see you like war, so i attacked the invincible army of immortalonia who's going *right through* your lands and never touch mine, and if you refuse you're an asshole and the whole world is going to despise you".
 

Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
Patron
Vatnik
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Messages
15,395
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don't identify with EU-NPC land
Strap Yourselves In
i wish war calls would be discussed beforehand. i hate when i have all my plates full already, no manpower, and some asshole "hey, i see you like war, so i attacked the invincible army of immortalonia who's going *right through* your lands and never touch mine, and if you refuse you're an asshole and the whole world is going to despise you".

You need to use favor option i think it's "prepare for war" if you plan your own war soon, the ai won't declare stupid wars that will drag you. Unless it's defensive war then they will always call you.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,636
There is a button to tell the AI you're not joining their wars but it makes you not gain favors. If the AI calls you into a war cast power word reload and flip that on.

It is fucking annoying when I can clearly tell that my ally can't fight a war because he refuses to let me to call him into anything due to penalties for being 4000 ducats in debt, low manpower, and with WE, yet they'll happily start their own war and call me in. Supposedly the AI evaluates you and only calls you in if you would have joined if you were AI, so having low manpower/debt/WE should prevent that, but I've never tried it. If you make good money though I guess just maintaining a bunch of loans might work? Just suck up the interest payments to never have to help your allies, though I'm not sure how many you'd need.

EDIT: Reading the wiki now, and, setting your diplomatic stance towards everyone as friendly should provide a penalty to calling you to war as well. Can do this with everyone who you haven't rivaled I think.

Some simple math with AI trust and diplo rep should let us calculate what we need to do to avoid wars. Example

+50 trust
+20 AI diplo rep
+12 AI dip skill
-60 friendly stance towards target
-20 fighting in another war
-10 One month of income in loans (with 4% loans this equates to spending 0.33% of your income on interest)
= -8 to being called in

Might try this if I can remember to when I play a new game. Maintaining a few loans is peanuts once you get a few decades in.
 

Higher Game

Arcane
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
13,722
Location
Female Vagina
There is a button to tell the AI you're not joining their wars but it makes you not gain favors. If the AI calls you into a war cast power word reload and flip that on.

It is fucking annoying when I can clearly tell that my ally can't fight a war because he refuses to let me to call him into anything due to penalties for being 4000 ducats in debt, low manpower, and with WE, yet they'll happily start their own war and call me in. Supposedly the AI evaluates you and only calls you in if you would have joined if you were AI, so having low manpower/debt/WE should prevent that, but I've never tried it. If you make good money though I guess just maintaining a bunch of loans might work? Just suck up the interest payments to never have to help your allies, though I'm not sure how many you'd need.

EDIT: Reading the wiki now, and, setting your diplomatic stance towards everyone as friendly should provide a penalty to calling you to war as well. Can do this with everyone who you haven't rivaled I think.

Some simple math with AI trust and diplo rep should let us calculate what we need to do to avoid wars. Example

+50 trust
+20 AI diplo rep
+12 AI dip skill
-60 friendly stance towards target
-20 fighting in another war
-10 One month of income in loans (with 4% loans this equates to spending 0.33% of your income on interest)
= -8 to being called in

Might try this if I can remember to when I play a new game. Maintaining a few loans is peanuts once you get a few decades in.

I think keeping a minimum of 20% loans is a good "training wheels" habit for newbies who don't use enough debt.
 

kangaxx

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
1,801
Location
Dargaard's Tomb
Finally formed Rome, and my god what a fucking miserable trek it was toward the end... worse still I'll miss out on the Mare Nostrum achievement because I have about 1000 AE+ with everyone in Europe, and I can't find a way to declare on Commonwealth to take the last few provinces without aggroing basically the whole world. I'll see if the coalition disbands when I've relaxed for a few years and solidified....
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,620
Finally formed Rome, and my god what a fucking miserable trek it was toward the end... worse still I'll miss out on the Mare Nostrum achievement because I have about 1000 AE+ with everyone in Europe, and I can't find a way to declare on Commonwealth to take the last few provinces without aggroing basically the whole world. I'll see if the coalition disbands when I've relaxed for a few years and solidified....
The coalition system is a poorly designed mechanic that often makes conquest-focused gameplay miserable. To succeed, you have to resort to exploiting the system by carefully timing your attacks and striking nations before they can band together again. It also forces you to constantly wage war against different culture groups to avoid triggering larger coalitions. This approach makes map-painting more of a tedious grind than an enjoyable or challenging experience.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,636
You can do the "nibble at a bunch of nations over time" strategy. You can also do the "all-in" strategy. Find an area with a unique religion group/culture and just take it all at once, neighbors probably won't care much. The biggest coalition religions are christians and muslims. That makes all of the hordes, east asia, and subsaharan africa into places you can basically ignore AE, along with India if you can get there before muslims completely gobble it up (even afterwards its a good place to start eating away at the muslim group), and Russia/Orthodox are also pretty easy targets. That's around half the world you can eat and probably never experience a coalition in. Once you have to expand significantly in muslim areas you can usually prevent a lot of coalition issues by allying one or two of the majors. Only Christians are a real problem with multiple GPs and a fuckload of HRE assholes.

Not saying that the mechanic is good but you can get around it a lot. The "keep people out of coalitions by having truces and declaring on them the day a truce is up" thing is pretty fucking gamey and senseless.
 

kangaxx

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
1,801
Location
Dargaard's Tomb
You can do the "nibble at a bunch of nations over time" strategy. You can also do the "all-in" strategy. Find an area with a unique religion group/culture and just take it all at once, neighbors probably won't care much. The biggest coalition religions are christians and muslims. That makes all of the hordes, east asia, and subsaharan africa into places you can basically ignore AE, along with India if you can get there before muslims completely gobble it up (even afterwards its a good place to start eating away at the muslim group), and Russia/Orthodox are also pretty easy targets. That's around half the world you can eat and probably never experience a coalition in. Once you have to expand significantly in muslim areas you can usually prevent a lot of coalition issues by allying one or two of the majors. Only Christians are a real problem with multiple GPs and a fuckload of HRE assholes.

Not saying that the mechanic is good but you can get around it a lot. The "keep people out of coalitions by having truces and declaring on them the day a truce is up" thing is pretty fucking gamey and senseless.
Oh I spent most of the run doing this, albeit only around the Med, it's just that towards the end I needed to pick up the pace. In the end I still have 80 years left as Rome, so I probably didn't need to speed up quite so much. The AE would take about 300 years to tick down at this point..
 

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