Europa Universalis IV

[Malakal]

Not bad. It's about 1/2 of my big issues with the game fixed in almost the way I said they should be fixed.

Though Administrative Efficiency would really work much better as a kind of sliding scale based on nation size/tech level/coring. And while diplo-annexation needed a nerf since it was absurdly gamey, putting more of a drain on Diplo points when the diplo tech line is still so weak is a bad idea. Meanwhile Mil tech remains by far the most important tech in the game and has almost no other point dumps like Admin or Diplo.

Mil tech was nerfed. Units now have less dots overall and tech difference matters less.

Nerfing it does nothing for the fact that there is literally no other place to throw your mil points though.

Yes you may think that and then in MP I see people losing to AI.

First of all you waste a lot of MP for revolt suppression. Especially if you play small nations and you do in SP. Then there is rolling on generals, I can reroll 4-5 generals before Im satisfied with their dots. Then there is having more generals than you can maintain which I often do. Finally there is scorched earth.

Frankly diplo points were by far the most useless followed by admin as at a certain point since you were more limited by the coring times than the adm point cost.

 

[Average Manatee]

Re-rolling Generals is basically an exploit. I can't understand why Paradox hasn't fixed it. Producing generals should lower military tradition. But in any case 4-5 generals isn't a big sink.

Maintaining more than one or two generals is mostly useless since you can just teleport them across the globe whenever you please. No need at all.

Scorched earth is hardly a point sink unless you are scorching half of Russia.

The issue isn't whether points are worthwhile or not, but whether they have an element of player choice how to spend them. At the moment any western nation has so many that they can't help but be at the tech limit for military tech.

 

[Space Satan]

So far the most important change is westernization - before it was "westernize or die" because western units absolutely obliterated anything else. Now with fixed cultural units it will be at least possible to finish the game without westernization.

 

[Average Manatee]

That depends. It may be "you're fucked if you don't westernize and nearly as fucked if you do westernize", because they still said that western units will be stronger late game, and now you will never get them. So how poorly off are Africans and New World nations that have westernized going to be? If those tech groups are only getting new cavalry units (which was all that was mentioned), their infantry are going to be permanently boned. As I said, Paradox has never actually managed to balance the unciv vs. civ combat in any other game, despite words to the contrary, so this would be a first.

Wait and see I suppose.

 

[Grinolf]

So far the most important change is westernization - before it was "westernize or die" because western units absolutely obliterated anything else. Now with fixed cultural units it will be at least possible to finish the game without westernization.

I wouldn't call a Western techgroup OP or even needed. There is infantry comparison:

As you could see, difference between quality of Western, Eastern and Ottomans units until very late game isn't that big. It could be an issue in multiplayer, where all advantages, regardless of how small they are, should matter, but in the single player it isn't really noticeable. And in the late game you or stopping playing or snowball out of control so much to simly not care about that.
That system with unequal units is still stupid, but Europe overall is pretty balanced in my opinion. So westernization for Eastern/Ottomans isn't really important and would pay for itself only if you managed to westernize in the first hundred years of the game. Not to mention that 8 tech gap is a pretty hard to "accomplish" for these countries in the first place.
And even Indians don't look that bad in that picture, but to accomplish equall tech with the top three techgroups should be a pretty hard for them.
So real problem wasn't opness of the westerners, but the fact that the worst techgroups ending up punished for their poor tech group not once (tech cost), but two (worse quality units during most of the game) or even three (less monarch points overall) times. So after the patch they will be punished only two times at most, which is some improvement.

 

[Malakal]

You call 20 pips difference balanced? From about tech 12 the difference is really huge.

Yes, thats mainly a MP issue but then you can win with anything in SP so thats a moot point.

 

[Grinolf]

You call 20 pips difference balanced? From about tech 12 the difference is really huge.

Yes, thats mainly a MP issue but then you can win with anything in SP so thats a moot point.

I called a Europe overall balanced. In other words Western, Eastern and Ottoman techgroups. Europe is the name of the region and not name of the game, if it wasn't clear in the context. So westernization for easterners and ottomans isn't a no-brainer choice. Everything outside of euope is a mess in that regard and a westernization is a really vital there, but it still unfair to say that Western tech group is too op and unbalanced, since there are two tech groups, who can compete with it without much problem. So even at the current state it still nothing like EU3, where Western tech group was really op.

 

[Luzur]

so, when will Wealth of Nations be out?

 

[Grinolf]

so, when will Wealth of Nations be out?

29th may.

 

[Kane]

Patchnotes are out: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?778277-Patchnotes-1.6

 

[Blagrar]

- Buildable Canals.
* Now possible to build the Kiel Canal, the Suez Canal and the Panama Canal.
* Building a Canal requires Administrative Tech 20, 50k gold and ownership of specific provinces, the project takes around 10 years.
* The project can be affected by a number of events
* Having a Canal will boost trade power in the province, allow the transit of ships and affects naval distance.
* The Canals are visible on the map

wut

- Revoking a guarantee on a nation now gives you a truce. Only one way though, for the one doing the guarantee.
- Annexing or Integrating another nation now costs 15 dip power per month, and takes 1 month per basetax.
- Nearly all HRE reforms now have benefits for HRE members.
- You can no longer guarantee your rivals.
- Implemented a new system for how blockades works.
- Dishonoring alliances no longer gives -100 opinion, but instead is -25 that decays by 0.5 per year.
- If a nation has finished westernising, its colonial subjects can now also westernise.
- Colony with a westernised overlord only pay 20% of the cost to westernise.
- its no longer possible to declare war on subjects of subjects.
- Countries with high monthly income will be slower through westernisation. Maximum monthly power into westernisation is reduced by 1 for each multiple of income by 40.
- Removed the diplomatic idea revolution&counter-revolution, and added in "Benign Diplomats", which gives +25% better improve relations and imperial relations.
- French Idea Elan losts its additional morale recovery.
- Its no longer possible to warn a country that has more than twice your monthly income.
- Now possible to declare an independence war while overlord is at war.
- Provinces in countries that have switched to Protestant or Reformed religion no longer get an auto-conversion bonus.
- Converting religion is no longer -3 stability, but instead -100 prestige.
- Countries converting to prot, reform or catholic get +8% missionary strength for 10 years.
- Size of your country no longer have any impact on quickly you can core a province.
- administrative_efficiency now impacts how much basetax impacts OE.. dip techs 23, 26, 29 now reduce them by 1 each.
- defensive ideagroups morale boost is now +15% instead of +25%.
- Added CB "Pirate Hunt" (cb_privateers). It's triggered when someone is privateering in a node that you trade and have some power in.
- Signing a peace where you give up stuff now reduces your WE by the warscore * max_we.
- Ideas impact on technology is now 40% bigger.
- Engineer Corps is now 20% siege ability and is placed in offensive, while improved_manuever is defensive.
- Army Tradition now gives up to +10% siege ability bonus.
- Returning cores to vassals now gives AE.
- Reworked terrain pick algoritm for combat, to have it rely on difference between manuever instead, and attacker being able to pick -1 penalties as desirable as well if -2 is more common.
- Rebelsizes now scale over time instead of just being hard at start and a joke at the end of the game.
- Rebels now get more morale from tech to compensate for lack of ideas and policies.
- Being over forcelimit cost penalty for armies is now doubled.
- Increased distance at which provinces are not counted as distant overseas to 150
- When a nation starts or joins an offensive war, any armies located in the territory of nations that are not their allies, enemies, subjects or overlord will be exiled.
- Formed nations such as Scandinavia will now keep their former Tag history. This is to prevent rebels from thinking ownerchange has been made. Core and ownership also shifted to previous date.
- Subjects can no longer ask others to become vassals or protectorates.
- Subjects can no longer force other nations to become vassals or protectorates through war.
- Rebels breaking free will create a country with ideas that is historically appropriate.
- Western Arms Trade now requires the friendly neighbour nation to be independent and allied with you, but there is no longer a prestige penalty.
- Rebels breaking free and starting new country will apply appropriate level of technology and ideas for the time period.
- No longer lose AE for returning cores to your vassals.
- Fixed a bug where AE was only being applied to countries of the same religion.
- Now get AE for breaking truces even if you have a valid wargoal.
- Taking provinces from large coalitions is now cheaper.
- Pirate spawning is now off when you got wealth of nations, since you get privateers then.

 

[Kane]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/279620/

 

[Brinko]

So it looks like Paradox thought the psycho rebel spawning was a great feature from Rajas of India so they decided to put it in Wealth of Nations too.

 

[Malakal]

Rebels were super weak before so Im not entirely opposed to that. 81k in 1706 is reasonable too.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

And the fact it's an OPM that got into the revolution strut it'll probably lead to those guys popping up at high speed instead of being spread out in 11k stacks and splatted like would happen in a usual empire.

 

[Brinko]

Well I was browsing through the forums to see if the 75% off was a good deal with everything around $30 and all I saw were people bitching about crazy amounts of rebels everywhere.

 

[Average Manatee]

Rebels out of control after a Paradox patch? This is totally unexpected.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

i haven't received my key yet :'(

 

[Mortmal]

You are not missing much it quickly become unplayable with rebels armies becoming gigantic. I cant believe they mess it up that bad, exactly like raja of india , they add achievements like "great khan" conquer russia china and persia with steppe horde but make it impossible to keep a few provinces, nationalism rebellions , religious rebillions, huge huge stackadding up and adding up. Conquer a country owning 3 provinces, the few next turns they will spawn stack of 45 rebel armies ... Again a few hours of playing and you can see the problems are obvious.

Seriously avoid purchasing this.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Rebels were super weak before so Im not entirely opposed to that. 81k in 1706 is reasonable too.

Give an example when an army of 81 000 rebels spontaneously popped up in 1701, in a small province like Modena alone.

Rebels in EU4 are bullshit and will continue to be so. Dwarfing your royal armies while equaling them in training. Where were these men hiding when the enemy was burning the countryside? The rate at which they spawn is also bullshit.

 

[BelisariuS.F]

Well I was browsing through the forums to see if the 75% off was a good deal with everything around $30 and all I saw were people bitching about crazy amounts of rebels everywhere.

Yee http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...d-rebels-sitting-in-a-tree-K-I-S-S-I-N-G-lt-3

 

[RK47]

Think of picking it up. But no ex-pack included? Hmmm.

 

[Malakal]

Rebels were super weak before so Im not entirely opposed to that. 81k in 1706 is reasonable too.

Give an example when an army of 81 000 rebels spontaneously popped up in 1701, in a small province like Modena alone.

Rebels in EU4 are bullshit and will continue to be so. Dwarfing your royal armies while equaling them in training. Where were these men hiding when the enemy was burning the countryside? The rate at which they spawn is also bullshit.

Give me an example of a country fielding 1 million standing army in 1700. Troop numbers are inflated in EU4 and thats a fact.

Also during the German peasant war in 1524-25 around 300k rebels rose up in what amounts to south-western part of modern day Germany. In game that would be Baden, western Bavaria and those areas fielding 300k rebels. In 15xx.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Give me an example of a country fielding 1 million standing army in 1700.

china.

 

[Luzur]

Rebels were super weak before so Im not entirely opposed to that. 81k in 1706 is reasonable too.

Give an example when an army of 81 000 rebels spontaneously popped up in 1701, in a small province like Modena alone.

Rebels in EU4 are bullshit and will continue to be so. Dwarfing your royal armies while equaling them in training. Where were these men hiding when the enemy was burning the countryside? The rate at which they spawn is also bullshit.

Give me an example of a country fielding 1 million standing army in 1700. Troop numbers are inflated in EU4 and thats a fact.

Also during the German peasant war in 1524-25 around 300k rebels rose up in what amounts to south-western part of modern day Germany. In game that would be Baden, western Bavaria and those areas fielding 300k rebels. In 15xx.

Sweden fielded 75.000 men in total (+ 5000 allies from Holstein) at the start of the Great Northern War 1700 vs some 280.000 of the coalition.

but i have a hard time finding any naton at all that could field that much in Europe.