Expeditions: Conquistador Discussion Thread

[villain of the story]

Make it so barricades require multiple turns to construct in the battlefield. The better the barricade the more turns it needs.

Then again, there are the spike traps. You build them right in front of the enemy and the enemy walks into them.

He said there was a radius around his own units that he could place them, in this example that radius happened to be the entire battlefield.

How does that relate to traps being set in enemy's LOS and the said enemies walking into the traps?

 

[Avonaeon]

Make it so barricades require multiple turns to construct in the battlefield. The better the barricade the more turns it needs.

Then again, there are the spike traps. You build them right in front of the enemy and the enemy walks into them.

You can only place them within a certain radius of your own troops. There are also battles where the enemy has placed traps, so it works both ways.
We will tweak it so you can't place traps and barricades right in front of the enemies at the start.

There is magic. Medic characters insta-heal others in combat.

It's not meant to be magic, but I can see why it gives that impression. We're still missing the proper animation to go with restoring, so it might end up looking different than it is now. Restoring doesn't insta-heal your people, there's a bit of variance to how much your people are healed depending on your doctor's rank.

We're still in the process of tweaking and balancing the combat, and we do listen to the feedback you guys give us. So keep and eye out for more updates and thanks for all the support so far

 

[kaizoku]

The gameplay video looks very nice, but there were a couple of things I didn't like at all!

1) healing during combat => aka heal potion spamming. That is pretty much blatant magic, which I understood you were not going to have.
things you can do instead: some critical hits could cause bleeding (among other effects you may want to add), and the healers could use their abilities to stop the hemorrhage


2) placing traps and barricades during combat
it should only be possible before combat, only during free roaming.
That would make it more tactical as you have to decide (and think ahead) of how conversations will go... and if they go wrong and you didn't prepare, then you loose an advantage.
Maybe it would be even better for these items to only work on your own territory. You simply don't walk into Mordor and place traps there while the enemies watch.


I'm assuming the AI isn't finished, as it needs some fixing. But it was pretty cool to see ranged enemies to step out of cover to shoot and then cover again.



thumbs up man!

 

[villain of the story]

Calling it magic was sarcasm because that's how it works: insta-healing by varying degrees. Animations won't change it. kaizoku said it well.

It might also be better if bleeding wounds were the default outcome of being hit above a certain amount of HP eg. you hit for up to 10 HP, fine, anything more will cause bleeding and maybe even faster bleeding for damage above 25 HP in one hit. And it should be harder to "heal" characters in armour, possibly requiring more action points. As for natives, I'd trust that the half-naked warriors of a human sacrificing culture would be more prepared to deal with wounds and bleeding, both psychologically and medically, than pansy-asses in armour in a foreign land.

Also, couldn't you vary low level combat a bit more? Basic attacks without any distinctions in their utilisation (otherwise, I noticed the subtle strategies surrounding opportunity attacks and flanking) is a tad disappointing. How about spending extra points to ranged aiming to increase the chance of hitting? And maybe spending extra points to attempt to do a riposte when an enemy blocks or dodges your melee attack? Eg. something like this:
(without regard to how much actions actually cost, I didn't keep track of it in the video)

5 points for regular melee attack.

8 points for regular melee attack + a weak riposte; if you miss the first time, you automatically attack a second time with decreased chance to hit and an increased chance to get hit, giving the enemy an opening. This might be preferable to spending 10 points for 2 regular attacks in some situations, I think. Especially when you don't have 10 points for it.

10 points for weaker melee attack + a strong riposte; decreased chance to hit on your first attack with an increased chance to get hit BUT increased chance to hit on the second attack if you manage to avoid getting hit. Also not a clear winner over 2 regular attacks due to the risk taken in the first attack but viable enough for some situations.

That would be both more in line with actual swordsmanship and more importantly, could also be gamist and involving enough to offer variety without breaking balance.

 

[Tolknaz]

I really like what i've seen so far. I'll up my pledge to 30 bucks. One suggestion though. Drop the kickstarter exclusive ingame content nonsense. That's dangerously close to the cancer known as DLC. Trust me, nobody wants stuff like that for an indie game (i could live with a major expansion in a year or two, but that's about it).

 

[OSK]

I like the idea of setting up barricades and traps before combat, but I feel like it shouldn't be something you can just do whenever. Really only the defending side should be able to set them up.

You can tie it into some choices and consequences. Maybe some effective scouting will give you an idea of enemy movements allowing you to set up an ambush where you can set up traps and such. Someone who didn't make the same choice, may not have that opportunity.

 

[Quetzacoatl]

How will the language barrier be handled? Does one of your party members know Nahuatl? If so, how? I can see the beginning of the game having the protagonist needing to rely on a shifty and unreliable translator. You can pick from a number of translators with each having their own agenda and goals. Some are pro-Aztec while others are pro-Tlaxcalan. Their agenda would determine whatever resolutions you can have with quests. However, with the appropriate cost the player can learn Nahuatl allowing a lot more options.

 

[J1M]

I was going to pledge $15 until I saw the pre-order cheats.

 

[Johannes]

Problem with the traps/barricades in the video was that it was so obvious where they'll be, yet the AI does nothing to watch out for them. Now if they could be disabled/ssearched for somehow, and the AI would do this too, it'd be much better. And possibly limit the placement, like that you can only place them next to your PCs. And maybe force the starts further apart, that's a distance you could've easily taken shots before being so close.

And yeah, exclusive content helps nobody, I don't see a reason to give the full game experience to everyone who gets the game, be it now or buying on release.

 

[Avonaeon]

The gameplay video looks very nice, but there were a couple of things I didn't like at all!
2) placing traps and barricades during combat
it should only be possible before combat, only during free roaming.
That would make it more tactical as you have to decide (and think ahead) of how conversations will go... and if they go wrong and you didn't prepare, then you loose an advantage.

Dialogue doesn't take place in the combat scenes, but you do get advantages/disadvantages during combat depending on what path you take in dialogue.

I like the idea of setting up barricades and traps before combat, but I feel like it shouldn't be something you can just do whenever. Really only the defending side should be able to set them up.

You can tie it into some choices and consequences. Maybe some effective scouting will give you an idea of enemy movements allowing you to set up an ambush where you can set up traps and such. Someone who didn't make the same choice, may not have that opportunity.

Trap placement does take place before the actual combat and isn't something you can do whenever you want. One of the planned classes will have an ability that allows you to spot enemy traps.

Problem with the traps/barricades in the video was that it was so obvious where they'll be, yet the AI does nothing to watch out for them.

Enemy traps are concealed to the player until he triggers them, and it works the same way for the enemy. They won't be able to spot your traps until they're sprung. The barricades are always visible, and the AI will destroy them if it has to.

How will the language barrier be handled? Does one of your party members know Nahuatl?

At the beginning of the game you have the choice between hiring servants or getting slaves, some of which assumes the role of translators.

 

[villain of the story]

I watched the combat video again. I got the impression that different classes have different movement points and every character can perform only one non-movement action per turn. Likewise, you have characters spend all of their movement points and still attack an enemy in a turn. But then during the enemy's first turn, you said the enemy had "enough points left for an attack" after he ran up to your party. So I'm confused.

If it's the former, my previous suggestion could work by spending movement points for a double attack or better aiming.

 

[Avonaeon]

There's no point system involved. Each unit can move a certain amount and still attack/use an ability, OR forego that action and move again. Each class has a different amount of moves, for example, a shaman can move 4 hexes, whereas hunters can move 6. And there are abilities that take up your entire turn, like the man-at-arms ranked hunter, who has an aimed shot which he can only take if he doesn't move. You will be able to see this in the next videos which should be up later today.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Looks excellent, and I pledged. Fully thought out tb system, working engine, functional AI etc .. I like what I see even more than Eisenwald (combat). C'mon guys this needs to be funded.

A game in the conquistador setting is right up my alley. I played all other games in this setting to death (Pirates! and Colonization). I've been fascinated by this stuff since I read Francisco Pizarros biography as a 11 year old kid.

But why does this get so few backers, while mediocre shit like DS gets thousands, for just a few screenshots?

If things proceed nicely tb gamers may have a great time in 2013/2014. Wasteland 2, Xenonauts, Shadowrun, Eisenwald and now this!!!

 

[Burning Bridges]

Avonaeon
Just a minor observation but do you think the health bars could be switched off (optionally of course)? Somehow health bars always remind me of RT games.

I say this especially because the graphics in the video are great. I get a small vibe of ToEE, which is a great compliment. I always get super excited when a game not only promises great gameplay but also has a graphic artist with great esthetic skill. Which I rarely see. But your game has great promise on all fronts. I also like the UI layout and how in the video you demonstrate that there actually is tactical gameplay. Not like many other developers do it "we have tb combat and therefore it automatically it is great although the images show the contrary". You actually deliver the proof.

Outstanding project so far, I am really excited. Please keep the pace until it is fully funded.

 

[Norfleet]

Proof? You call that proof? I see nothing but fancy photoshopping, just like numerous other scam Kickstarter projects, NONE OF WHICH ACTUALLY MATERIALIZE.

Your photoshopwork is very nice, but this is not a game. I have seen far too many fake images from nonexistent games to fall for something like this.

 

[Avonaeon]

@Burning Birdges: Thank you very much
As for your observation, we might make that a possibility. We'll keep making videos as we progress and should the Kickstarter be successful, we'll of course continue making them throughout the process.

In general, any help you guys can give in terms of spreading the word is invaluable at this point. We continually write major/relevant news sites, but with your help we will have a bigger impact and we'd be more likely to reach more people willing to fund the game. Thanks again for all your support so far

 

[Burning Bridges]

I'll see what I can do.

For now, you should consider that you may have put yourself in a very tough position by going to kickstarter without any preparation.

Experience has shown that it takes time until people get aware of a new indie game project, and that they must grow accustomed to them. Then, once a certain threshold or critical mass is reached (it can take from a few months up to a year), the real money starts flowing. How many backers do you have now, 400? That's NOTHING for a project like yours and the kind of gameplay you already shown in the video.
100,000 $ should be easily doable if you take the steps in the right order. But you should be patient and communicate with the people that already support you.

So don't give up if the kickstarter does not get through the first time. It will be a very close call this time I can already say, but it should defintely go through in a second attempt, with some more preparation and mouth to mouth propaganda.

Good luck and check your PM

P.S. You should also have a look at several Legend of Eisenwald threads here, to see how much the codex loves this kind of projects and people and how we could help you with your aims. If you want to know how to deal with the codex, just look what Alexander from Aterdux did.

 

[Tolknaz]

How will the language barrier be handled? Does one of your party members know Nahuatl? If so, how?

This is an area, where real history was even more bizarre than most fiction usually tries to be. The pieces of the puzzle were a local nahua slave girl and a spanish friar who had spent some time in mayan captivity and knew some mayan. Luckily for the spanish, the slave girl also knew mayan. She later learned spanish and became Cortes' lover.

 

[Gonchi]

But why does this get so few backers, while mediocre shit like DS gets thousands, for just a few screenshots?

I can tell you why I'm not backing it:

- Because they're already offering physical junk before securing funding for the game itself.

- Because of their insistence on doing in-game exclusive content despite being well aware a significant amount of people are opposed to it.

- Because of the flippant dismissal to the above point in their FAQ.

- Because they offer the Diary of the Conquistador and the Aztec Map solely at $250+ when they can and should be offering PDF versions at lower tiers.

As for why more people aren't pledging, I believe you answered that yourself, there's already been a bunch of turn based RPG's funded on kickstarter, the ones you mentioned and also Dead State and Banner Saga. People are tapped out or waiting to see how the projects' they've already pledged to do before backing more. I'd also hazard that some are holding out to see how likely they are of hitting the stretch goals before backing.

 

[Quetzacoatl]

How will the language barrier be handled? Does one of your party members know Nahuatl? If so, how?

This is an area, where real history was even more bizarre than most fiction usually tries to be. The pieces of the puzzle were a local nahua slave girl and a spanish friar who had spent some time in mayan captivity and knew some mayan. Luckily for the spanish, the slave girl also knew mayan. She later learned spanish and became Cortes' lover.

Yada yada, I know about traitorous whore.
Avonaeon, how will smallpox come into place? Do you have a solution to the language barrier? Or will the player have to suspend their disbelief?

 

[Haba]

Updated my pledge list.

I would say that your $100+ pledges seem quite risky with all the physical stuff you are offering, with free delivery... Oh well, we'll see.

 

[Avonaeon]

Part 2 & 3 are now up:

http://youtu.be/-D1Rh0y1FEY

http://youtu.be/9N3AeV-Zxys

 

[Avonaeon]

How will the language barrier be handled? Does one of your party members know Nahuatl? If so, how?

This is an area, where real history was even more bizarre than most fiction usually tries to be. The pieces of the puzzle were a local nahua slave girl and a spanish friar who had spent some time in mayan captivity and knew some mayan. Luckily for the spanish, the slave girl also knew mayan. She later learned spanish and became Cortes' lover.

Yada yada, I know about traitorous whore.
Avonaeon, how will smallpox come into place? Do you have a solution to the language barrier? Or will the player have to suspend their disbelief?

Smallpox does play a role once you reach the Yucatan, but it's not the main focus of the story. As for the language barrier:

At the beginning of the game you have the choice between hiring servants or getting slaves, some of which assumes the role of translators.

When talking with natives and Aztecs, mentions of your translators occur from time to time, but for the most part we just assume the player's servants/slaves do the translating.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Proof? You call that proof? I see nothing but fancy photoshopping, just like numerous other scam Kickstarter projects, NONE OF WHICH ACTUALLY MATERIALIZE.

Your photoshopwork is very nice, but this is not a game. I have seen far too many fake images from nonexistent games to fall for something like this.

Well I shouldn't call it 'proof', but the video and the way the guy describes their game show that they know what they are doing. For a first impression it was very good.

What you mean by photoshopping? The combat video (update 2) clearly shows that they have an engine, character animations, 2D art, user interface, sounds and gameplay. All of very high quality for an indie project. It will of course be only a vertical slice of the full game, but since they have provided good examples of all the different assets they should be absolutely able to flesh it out content wise. Xenonauts by comparison, went away from kickstarter with a lot of money without AI and without aliens even shooting back.

 

[mikaelis]

Great project! Backed it for 15$ so far, but will raise it up to 30$ if needs be. Higher tiers doesn't look interesting to me.

Also, push the press release to different sites asap, so they can cover it early enough. Try to get some coverage from interviews as well. The project is too promising to fail! I almost feel like within the first week of supporting Legends of Eisenwald, when they were really sinking low. Yet they managed! And so you should.

Question about "out-of-combat" gameplay: I got the feeling everything is hex based. Wouldn't it be better if "travelling mode" was realised in real time (something like NWN2:SoZ overland map for example, or Fallout global map), and only battles on the hex grid?