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Expeditions: Rome - the final Expeditions game from Logic Artists

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
yeah Viking was a pretty easy game as well, so Insane seems like the only difficulty to play really.

I am not saying these are not winnable, I am just saying they are not fun. The fight against Archeus was exactly like this. Overwhelming odds (of trashmobs), the catch (he had so much armor you couldn't do damage to him unless you shred the armor first), the catch #2 (you had very limited means to shred it at that time, and he couldn't be locked down with most builds, and could just run around ignoring attacks of opportunity and take out your backline), so eventually you had to resort to the cheap way the developers intended (bring enemy number down to 5). So it's like instead of focusing on fun combat, you are playing the game of "guess how the developers wanted you to tackle this shit".

I understand. I can see why someone wouldn't like it, and I think it's possible the devs have 'overused' the objective-based design even.

The Archelaus fight used to be different, in the demo it was too easy to win, at least coming from the Harbour because it was too easy to kill the required enemies in 1-2 turns with AI help.

The idea with armor in this game is that you're supposed to throw Pilums at high armored enemies or enemies with shields to remove their armor or disable their shield, that's just the design. In that particular fight coming from the harbor there's a Pilum box in the fortification right in front of you, you kill the guys guarding it, grab the 3 Javelins and then throw them at Archelaus and focus him down.

I prefer how it is now but yes doing it by reducing the enemy numbers is more difficult compared to how it used to be.

I'm 10/11 regions conquered in Asia Minor and I definitely do not have optimized builds on anything, and I just finished a fight in the first turn by just alpha striking the boss guy down and then the fight was over and he goes 'we surrender'. It's a very different design to normal. I'm keeping in mind what others are saying in the thread and I'll reserve my comments until I play more of the game.
 

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I am not saying these are not winnable, I am just saying they are not fun. The fight against Archeus was exactly like this. Overwhelming odds (of trashmobs), the catch (he had so much armor you couldn't do damage to him unless you shred the armor first), the catch #2 (you had very limited means to shred it at that time, and he couldn't be locked down with most builds, and could just run around ignoring attacks of opportunity and take out your backline), so eventually you had to resort to the cheap way the developers intended (bring enemy number down to 5). So it's like instead of focusing on fun combat, you are playing the game of "guess how the developers wanted you to tackle this shit".
I just burned him with fire arrow he died within few turns.
 

hivemind

Cipher
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Pretty Princess
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conquistador was so comfy I can't believe that this studio spent like the next 8 years developing below average pseudo-rpgs with ever increasing budgets and declining quality instead of carving out their own interesting niche :(
 

FreeKaner

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The video is focused on the history not on the culture wars. But if you want to be willfully ignorant that's fine you'll just become progressively more retarded.

The video didn't prevent you from being retarded. You will not learn anything relevant about history from 15-30min half anecdote half buffoonery youtube videos which is what 99.9% of "history" (in reality history themed entertainment and/or culture wars).

Nice job shifting the goalposts there. See you're defending the game including black people as Roman nobles, whilst retreating to the claim that the Roman empire had black people in it.

What claim am I retreating to you dumb fuck? I talked about black liberalis in the game which the people here showed a screenshot of as it is a persistent character rather than a generated one, you responded to me with 16 min video which I didn't watch. If the video is talking about black nobles go take it to the whatever culture warrior that made that claim. I did not watch your 16min video and I am not gonna respond to it. You are the one that responded to me so you make an argument against what I wrote.
 

Alpharius

Scholar
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Mar 1, 2018
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609
Playing on insane, the combat was not bad at first but then after i've got the "block all attacks from front, left and right" shields it declined signigicantly(that was after 3rd fight in the game i think). Then there is this unlimited overwatch bow that oneshots most enemies without shields. Didn't level up the reaper skill that allows you to kill all trashmobs on first turn yet but it already feels like i'm playing nuxcom with endgame gear.

The legion combat is aslo popamole. Doesn't seem like anything i can do affects the outcome of battles signigicantly apart from the number of troops (but this only increases the likehood of victory which 99% of the time is assured anyway). Unlocked a bunch of strategems but most of them are shit so like in any shitty card-based system i'm now less likely to get the good ones because my "deck" is filled with crap. (Didn't find an option to remove them).

Also most loot is trash. And crafting needs at least level 2 to produce something decent i think, apart from unique items. Didn't unlock it yet.

Finishing Asia minor now, i guess i'll drop the game soon after. :decline:
 
Last edited:

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I think a lot of people agree the legion gameplay just doesn't click compared to the other expeditions game. Instead of being a legate they should just make us a small strike team limited to infiltration and small skirmishes while the big army are done in the background. Same story, same settings, but the character doesn't become a legatus, instead just make up a special task force like commander shepard or whatever and go with it.
 

Sunri

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Jermu

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Uninstalled game. Last act missions are too retarded and game is way too easy on hard. I would switch to insane if I had some willpower to keep playing. Pacification missions are also shit.

You visit the village which Lurco captured and you are supposed to meet him. There are 4 buildings locked in the middle of village which is quite suspicious I was thinking Lurco is trying to kill me now. But no it was leftover Gael enemies which Lurco somehow managed to "miss" :roll:

I enjoyed act 1, act 2 was fine but act 3 is too much same boring shit you have already done million times. Uninteresting busywork.
 

Shrimp

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Jun 7, 2019
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Had the game been shipped as a short 10-20 hour campaign (and with a matching price tag) that only took place in the Asia Minor portion of the game it would honestly have been great.
I stopped playing just before marching on Alexandria. Knowing I had an entire new map to go through after almost finishing up the second one was the straw that broke the camel's back. I should've stopped earlier since the game got stale and repetitive a long time ago but I erroneously powered through more of it hoping it'd change, but it just never did.
If I have to say one thing I did like about the game it's the cast of characters. I didn't expect much from them based on the previews before the game's launch, but I found them to be surprisingly enjoyable and varied even if they could have been used more.
 
Joined
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The idea with armor in this game is that you're supposed to throw Pilums at high armored enemies or enemies with shields to remove their armor or disable their shield, that's just the design. In that particular fight coming from the harbor there's a Pilum box in the fortification right in front of you, you kill the guys guarding it, grab the 3 Javelins and then throw them at Archelaus and focus him down.

That's exactly my point though. I never said it was hard, which the retards above cannot seem to grasp with their catlike brains. What I said was all combat encounters are structured around some contrived bullshit, like Archelaus having some ridiculous armor (9) as a light infantry, and/or magic pilum stores next to him or whatever. So every fight, instead of just being immersed into and enjoying the combat system, you are constantly trying to figure out how the devs meant for you to tackle the fight. And that's just not fun.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
It's the opposite of D:OS that's for sure.

I think I prefer the system in Viking to Rome, but I do like that you actually need to use items on the harder difficulty in this, and enemies actually use them too. They'll grab the pilum and throw it at you if you don't get it, which I think is cool. In Viking enemies didn't use items, and you almost never needed to either.
 
Joined
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Yeah, I like Viking a LOT more than Rome so far. The combat was just combat, use real world tactics, e.g. shield wall in front, archers behind, disable enemy shields with hooking, etc. Rome has much of the same system in place, but instead of throwing tough enemies at you in straightforward fights, they just throw waves of shit with various handicaps or tricks. Also Viking was a much better flowing game, most of it was on the party level, Rome is Shitmaker-like in its loading screens, and constant transitions between party, world map, legions, etc.
 

Saduj

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Aug 26, 2012
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Found a funny bug last night. It was on the last leg of the final mission of Act 1. I failed the mission because I assumed it was ending at a certain point, got careless, had Bestia go down, didn't bother sending anyone after him and failed to kill the last enemy before Bestia bled out because the little bastard retreated to a back corner of the map. Game Over.

Reload and decide to use the catapults to fire bomb the back of the map so that enemies can't drag things out by hiding back there. I kill enough enemies to trigger Mithraides' escape only this time the path he takes is completely firebombed. So he's running away and taunting me but also taking burn damage and making the "uh oh aaaaaaah!" noises that burning enemies make. Right when he's done with his scripted taunting, he crumbles in a heap and dies. Very satisfying even if the game still considers him alive....
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
the problem isn't even the combat goals but how overused they are as if they were required to implement them by a manager or something
the one where you're ambushed and have to go over and heal the dude and escort him away from battle while holding off the attacks is an example of it being done well
 
Joined
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Messages
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Combat goals (other than winning the combat) or contrived combat situations are bad in the same way that modern RPG quests are bad. In classic RPGs, you would just be given a high level goal for a quest, e.g. find that thing or defeat that guy. Then it would be up to you to figure out how to do it, and it felt free and empowering, like it was YOUR game. In modern RPGs, they break every quest down into a series of simple tasks, go here, do this, go there, do that, so you feel like an errandboy.

Well, combat is similar, if you just start duking it out with someone in freeform format, it's fun, its your fight, but this contrived shit makes you jump through somebody else's hoops like a dog. Oh, now these dudes magically appear behind me for a "secret" ambush, and oh now, I can't use my main healer, and now this enemy has this magic armor that I can't touch, so I have to do that. It just takes all the agency and fun out of it. And it's becoming a worrying trend with nuRPGs.
 

SniperHF

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Aug 22, 2014
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My legion lost a battle with 100% success chance, is that little indicator just bullshit as it appears?
 
Vatnik Wumao
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Oct 2, 2018
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My legion lost a battle with 100% success chance, is that little indicator just bullshit as it appears?
Depends on what stratagems you've played. You could theoretically pick too many aggressive ones and fuck up your manpower way more than theirs.
 

Nryn

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
Beat the game after switching to the hardest difficulty a few hours into Act 1. I haven't had this much fun with a game's encounter design since KotC 2's initial release in 2020. While Conquistador and Viking had their share of interesting fights, Rome dwarfs them both in this regard and is an unequivocal recommendation to those looking for turn-based tactical combat goodness, and especially to fans of Blackguards' encounter design. More detailed spoiler-free thoughts on various aspects of the game I liked and disliked:

Things I Liked:

1. Encounter Design is Blackguards on Steroids:
Just like with Blackguards, every combat encounter takes place on a handcrafted environment with a lot of thought behind the positioning of enemies and the level design. To expand:
  • Unlike too many RPGs to name with mindless encounter design, it is very rare to find enemy archers in Rome who start combat at ground level or out of cover. Whenever combat starts, enemy archers are almost always placed on rooftops or hilltops, giving them a massive range advantage over the party's own archers. The one time an enemy archer was all by his lonesome without any nearby cover turned out to be too good to be true -- the entire area around him was full of hidden traps designed to punish an overzealous player who rushed towards an easy kill without considering how suspicious it was. I never made that mistake again and it served me well for the rest of the game.
  • Just like with Blackguards, coming to terms with each combat arena's layout with all the chokepoints and verticality that it entails is paramount. Getting stuck in chokepoints is often a death sentence, since enemy support units, such as arsonists and poisoners, tend to rain down fiery and poisonous death on the hapless party members who are out of position.
  • Another similarity with Blackguards is that the combat goals can vary and don't just amount to "kill all enemies". There are missions reminiscent of the infamous crypt lice mission of Blackguards where the party's group is not meant to fight, but instead get to safety while fending off enemies. My only complaint with the mission goals in the game is that too many fights in the game can be trivialized by beelining for the leader and killing him, thereby instantly ending the fight.
  • Every combat arena has hand-placed usable items such as bandages, javelins and torches that both the party and enemies can use as a free action, completely turning around fights. Not paying attention to the location of these items and allowing the enemies free rein over the use of such items can be a recipe for disaster, as even untrained mooks can be devastating with a lucky throw of a torch of fire, especially when the party is in the vicinity of puddles of oil.
  • On the highest difficulty, one has to pay even more attention to the level layout to predict potential points of entry for the near incessant enemy reinforcements.
  • Barring 1 exception (in Act 3, a pacification mission and a random encounter share the same combat location), every single main quest, side quest, pacification mission and random world encounter takes place in a unique location with handcrafted level design and hand-placed enemies.
  • The tense multipart siege fights without any chance to rest in-between fights are the highlight of the encounter design of Rome, and I can't think of any other game that offers a similar experience. Involving as many as 3 separate parties and 14 party members, a party's performance in its current fight has consequences for the fights other parties face in the future during the course of the siege. Since hp and tactical item usage persist between each part of the multistage siege fight, there is an added incentive to do well during each part of the siege, in order to help alleviate resource management pressures.
One aspect of Rome's level and encounter design that is a massive improvement over Blackguard's is that Blackguard's combat took place in separate abstract combat arenas. In contrast, Rome's combat locations are indistinguishable from non-combat areas that one can freely explore. In fact, a lot of the earlier exploration areas serve as combat locations themselves later in the game. Designing areas that are believable to explore while doubling up as interesting tactical challenges must have been no easy task.

2. Well Told Revenge Story with Personal Stakes: The game's villain is constantly around and well built up over the course of the entire game, and is the primary reason why the game's revenge tale works. Based on one's choices during Act 1, mutually exclusive events can unfold involving the protagonist's and the villain's family members, further adding to the simmering revenge plot. My biggest issue with the narrative is that certain aspects of the Act 3 military storyline seem rushed and lack proper build up, primarily those involving a sacrificial ritual and the act's main siege.

On a related note, I found the companions to generally be likable. Syneros, in particular, has become one of my favourite rpg companions, and he achieves this feat by being entirely normal and loyal. Even Bestia, who starts out as just a bloodthirsty gladiator develops in interesting ways depending on how certain companion quests resolve. Of the other 3 companions, I took the longest to warm up to Julia, who does mellow somewhat as the game progresses.

3. The Final Act's Impressive C&C: Without going into specific spoilers, the final splits into 2 radically different scenarios and fights based on a choice at the start of the act. Different companions can die and leave the party during each path, and how a companion's side quest was resolved in earlier acts can open up new non-violent options. Even the faction one was aligned to during Act 2 has consequences. It's well worth keeping a save around at the start of the act to experience the 2 entirely different turns the story can take from that point onwards.

4. Unique Item Mechanics: One novel addition to itemization introduced by Rome is the ability to dismantle and extract the special ability from a unique item and add it to a completely different item. I found it a lot of fun to take a unique staff that knocks enemies down 25% of the time, dismantle it and add the knock down effect to a Veles' generic dagger that is used multiple times a round, leading to the constant sight of prone enemies. This mechanic ensures no unique item in the game is wasted, and if one is not able to use a unique item in its default state, the item's unique proc effects can still be transferred onto an item of the player's choosing.

Things I Didn't Like:

1. Loading Screens in Sets of 4:
A highly specific complaint for a highly specific flaw. There are 6 ways to manage the Legion:
  • Assign someone to refresh the use of Tactical Items
  • Assign someone to refresh the currently available Praetorians for hire
  • Assign someone to craft weapons, armour and items
  • Assign up to 3 people to the camp's infirmary
  • Assign someone to the Baths to improve morale
  • Assign someone to work on new Stratagems for use in Legion Battles
Of these 6 activities, only healing assignments can be done from the World Map, and that too a highly limited form of it. For serious injuries and healing efficiency, one needs to be treated at the camp's infirmary. Thus, for all intents and purposes, one needs to be inside the Legion camp to manage all 6 of the Expedition's activities. And this is where the loading screen hell starts. Entering the Legion camp from the World Map takes 1 loading screen. After making assignments in the Legion camp, one has to wait to see the results of the assignments. For some mindboggling reason, one cannot pass time when inside the Legion camp, and one needs to return to the World Map (loading screen 2). After passing time on the World Map to complete assigned tasks, the party members are not automatically removed from their assignments and neither are crafted items accessible yet. Inexplicably, one needs to head back into the Legion camp (loading screen 3) to "free up" the party members who were assigned to various activities and to collect crafted items. Finally, one has to return to the World Map (loading screen 4) to continue the campaign as before.

This problem really comes to a head during Act 3 which loves to spam a random encounter involving boars where the party ends up with 3 injuries or loses a random item permanently. Getting 2 of those events back to back, and sitting through 8 loading screens in the process, ensured that I gave my quicksave and quickload keys a good workout for the rest of the random World Map encounters.

2. The Expedition Mechanics Have No Stakes: The game's Expedition mechanics feel like they were designed around the idea of a time limit, only for the time limit to be removed later during development, but with with none of the Expedition mechanics changed to reflect the removal. One can essentially "grind" battle stratagems to use in Legion Battles by just passing time and then completely roll over Legion battles. Similarly, there are repeatable Legion missions all around the World Map that can be done by the Legion for resources, and this ensures resource management is barely a concern given the infinite time available. In Conquistador and Viking, I took on fights with injured party members thanks to worrying about the passage of time, but I didn't have resort to such desperate measures even once in Rome, since I could always postpone fights until after visiting the infirmary.

All this means the Expedition mechanics have changed from core mechanics in the prior games to just some mechanics that add a bit of flavour and lots of busywork filler.

3. Pointless RNG in Crafting: While the game does not have levels filled to the brim with pointless loot containers like in Viking, the crafting RNG means the player ends up wasting time anyway due to bad crafting rolls. When modifying items through crafting to have certain kinds of stats or resistances, the crafting result should have had just a single possible result instead of a range of results that only add to the frustration due to bad luck.

Overall, if one's looking for a game with interesting encounter design where the odds are stacked against the party (certain broken skills such as the Veles' Reaper skill notwithstanding), Rome is a blind recommendation. It's a nice bonus that a game with such a strong emphasis on the combat and encounter design also features a well-told revenge story with a fine example of branching C&C during its final act. The best way to play the game is with a custom difficulty that pumps up the combat difficulty, enabling better A.I. in the process, while turning down the settings involving the legion management to avoid getting bogged down with the poorly thought out and implemented Legion Management mechanics.
 

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
2. The Expedition Mechanics Have No Stakes: The game's Expedition mechanics feel like they were designed around the idea of a time limit, only for the time limit to be removed later during development, but with with none of the Expedition mechanics changed to reflect the removal. One can essentially "grind" battle stratagems to use in Legion Battles by just passing time and then completely roll over Legion battles. Similarly, there are repeatable Legion missions all around the World Map that can be done by the Legion for resources, and this ensures resource management is barely a concern given the infinite time available. In Conquistador and Viking, I took on fights with injured party members thanks to worrying about the passage of time, but I didn't have resort to such desperate measures even once in Rome, since I could always postpone fights until after visiting the infirmary.
this I agree SOOO much. i don't think you can even run out of time in these games since I remember vikings was pretty generous, but even with that the existence of a timer adds to the tension that I feel like I must use my time effectively. this is apparently are too much for the ooga booga homo erectus that THQN wants to target they removed it. you can just wait wait wait while masturbating until your army and crew recovered, or make profit from the marketplace indefinitely. it's dumb
 

Starwars

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Sweden
Finished the game and I greatly enjoyed it all in all. It definitely feels like another Expeditions game, many strengths (and problems) remain from past games but, like with Viking and Conquistador, it still feels different in many ways.

Some of my complaints:

-The game is way too easy, though I just played on Normal, weakling that I am. This especially goes for the "legion layer". To me it's a pretty fun distraction and a way to shake up the gameplay but there doesn't seem to be that much depth or challenge to it. Just roll across the sectors. Still, I found it a pretty fun variation on the overland maps in Viking and Conquistador. The usual combat is also too easy (again, on Normal), which is a shame because the combat system is superfun to use.

-The formulaic pacification quests. This feels a bit too much like "modern game design padding". While a lot of the encounters are still fun due to... well, again, the combat system just being fun, it still feels like busywork and an afterthought to the rest of the game.

-The game starts to drag in the third act. Apparently they will change it up a bit in an upcoming patch but as is, it feels too much like you're just being led around the nose for a long time.

-The story is entertaining to follow but it relies a bit too much on yanking the player around, being BETRAYED and other kind of cheap tactics at times. Like with Viking, I feel it's the colorful characters that makes it entertaining and not the actual story.

-I played as a female character and I actually quite liked how they handled it. Historically accurate, no, but there were plenty of references to it throughout the game. Not just a "oh you're a female" at the start of the game and then nothing more. Great for roleplaying. However, with both the female companions, there are parts of the game where there's just a lot of sassy dialogue pertaining to being female. Again, the way the game treated a female main character was fun but in conjunction with the female companions it gets a bit much.

Still, despite the problems I had a lot of fun playing this and I'd say I prefer it to Viking. I also think they actually did a nice job with making the series feel slightly less janky. I was afraid that the higher budget (I assume at least) and publisher would suck the "Expeditions feel" out of the game but I don't think it did at all. Very happy with it overall and will definitely replay at a later date.
 

Zarniwoop

Closed for renovation
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I just got to Cleopatra :lol:

Interesting choice, having her voiced by an obviously Arab chick.

Interesting bewbs too.

But I can see what others have commented already, the campaign is very repetitive. The strategic map just repeats itself, starting over but with some upgrades to your camp kept. It's more like a new game plus than an ongoing campaign if anything.
 

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